A little advice, please... (LONG)

[AlmiraGulch]

Some of you know this already, but as a reminder....

 

My ex-husband lives in my house, and has for a little over a year. We've been divorced for four, and are not "together" in any sense of the word. About two years ago he was fired from his job and was subsequently convicted of embezzlement. He was able to work for several months doing temp jobs and things, but as soon as the criminal record started appearing on the background checks no one would hire him anymore (I don't blame them...I wouldn't hire him either!).

 

Meanwhile, I travel quite a bit for my job. He lives here for free, helps with the home schooling of my eldest, gets the little one to school, keeps my house clean....so basically, he's my Alice. It's not ideal, but at least I don't have to worry about my kids when I'm gone.

 

He has recently been notified that he is in violation of the terms of his probation for not paying his restitution (total of $20,000 at about $300 a month). If he doesn't make an immediate payment of $1,695 and make his payments on time from now on, his probation will be revoked. He obviously doesn't have a job and so cannot pay. If he moves to S. Florida (we're in GA), his brother (a police officer) has stated he can help him get a job through some of his friends that own their own businesses. So, the ex would potentially have a job to pay his debts if the court approves letting him move there.

 

If he goes, I don't know what I'll do with my kids. I'm looking for another job, but they're few and far between, as everyone knows. I can't really even find a nanny, because it's not a steady gig. Meaning, sometimes I'm gone 2 or 3 days overnight, could be once a month or every week, then I could go a couple of months without going anywhere. Also, it's very expensive, and I'd be leaving my children in the hands of a stranger while I'm not even in the state (assuming I could even find someone to do it).

 

The alternative? I could pay the ex's restitution for him. It would certainly be cheaper than the nanny alternative, and I wouldn't have to worry about my kids. On the other hand, I think I would be so resentful I could just die. The thought of it is giving me angst. He did the crime, he should pay his own debts. I already support him and we're not even married! Makes me furious.

 

So, do I let him go and hope I find something to do with my kids (or eventually a new job), or do I tell him to stay and pay his stupid restitution for him, knowing I'll be resentful as hell but not at all worried about my children? I sort of feel like making him figure it out and pay his own stuff (or end up in jail) is the "right" thing to do, standing on principle alone, but that principle isn't going to take care of my kids, so aren't I just cutting off my own nose to spite my face?

 

What would you do?

[The Girls' Mom]

What an awkward position to be in. Can you pay the restitution until you find a new job? And let him know that it's only temporary?

[Avila]

Pay the money, and think of it as spending the $300 for childcare. Don't think too hard about where and to whom it is going. Otherwise, I think you will be cutting off your nose to spite your face here. Sorry. It really isn't fair. :grouphug:

[Cindyz]

I'm sorry for your unfortunate situation. :grouphug:

 

I would pay it for the sake of my children.

[Dandelion]

What would you think of drawing up a contract with your ex for repayment of the restitution money? That way, you can help him out, he continues to help you (with childcare, etc.), but you won't feel as resentful about the money. You could stipulate the repayment terms (probably pretty generous terms since he doesn't have an income right now), but at least you have some recourse if he doesn't pay you back (small claims court).

[Gooblink]

Why not "employ" him as your housekeeper. He'll have a job for his resume and money to pay his debt.

 

I agree, it sounds like it would be as good a deal for you as for him.

[kalanamak]

Some of you know this already, but as a reminder....

 

The alternative? I could pay the ex's restitution for him. It would certainly be cheaper than the nanny alternative, and I wouldn't have to worry about my kids. On the other hand, I think I would be so resentful I could just die. The thought of it is giving me angst. He did the crime, he should pay his own debts. I already support him and we're not even married! Makes me furious.

 

What would you do?

I'd pay.

I would go with what is both cheaper and appears to be working with the kids, thank my stars (as much as I was able) and do my best to look on the sunny side. People have been worse off. Put your nose back on. You got a roof over head and your health (or what ever your mother said when you whined.)

:grouphug:

And really, I could see myself landing in this kind of situation. I sounds odd, but any woman without at least one horror story in her life is a total coward.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

[gingersmom]

Does he pay rent to you? Is he eating for free? Does he help out

financially at all? If not it may be cheaper to hire someone . Maybe a college student or a retired person.

[Tap]

#1. You need a job to pay your bills, feed you and your children and provide medical care. You have a job but the situation with travel causes the rest of the problems. If you really don't want to support exdh then start looking for another job. Once you get the job you have the luxury of telling exdh to move on. Until then you need him as much as he needs you.

 

#2. You need a sitter to take care of the children if you tell exdh to move on, and you still have the job with travel. I am guessing that you don't have family near by because that would be the obvious choice. If you have someone in your mind who would be able to help you with this...call them and start the communication process about what this would look like and cost you. If you don't have anyone in mind, put some feelers out and see what you come up with.

 

#3. If exdh moves to Florida, how will visitation occur? Who is responsible for the expense, and how much will it cost. If that is going to fall on you (even 1/2 of it) factor that in to the equation too.

 

#4. What kind of job opportunity is in Florida for exdh? It is a career opportunity or just a minimum wage job? If it is a career, he may need to move on and take a chance of getting on with his life. If it is just a minimum wage job....I wouldn't encourage him to move.

 

#5. What kind of influence is he on the kids? If he is a positive role model and a good father, then how will it impact them for him to be gone?

 

#6. Are there any resources he hasn't utilized, like back to work programs for inmates? Is he turning his nose up at getting help or has he really, really tried?

 

#7 If you are working, who will homeschool the kids? Are you okay with devoting you days to work and every even evening to hs? It is very hard to homeschool full time and to work part time, I can't imagine full time work and full time hs. If you are going to continue hsing, how much would it cost to get a part-time tutor? More than $300 I would figure.

 

#8. I can imagine the resentment of having someones actions rip a family apart and take all the trust with it. It seems like so far, you have been able to keep your family together as a whole and and to make the best of a horrible situation. His unethical actions have turned every rational on its head and now you are left to be bread winner and to support someone you may no longer hold in high regard. BUT, if you can take the violation of marriage and the violation of his work out of the picture....what is best for the kids right now? If you have to pay someone to watch the kids during the day, and for travel, and for tutoring....I would expect you to be paying $1-2,000/mth. Would you rather pay that to a stranger to take care of your kids, or the father? In essence, he is working. He is working for you. He is a manny and a tutor. If it would make you feel better, pay him a monthly stipend like you would pay a manny, and then let him pass the money back to you to pay for rent/housing/etc.

[Nakia]

#1. You need a job to pay your bills, feed you and your children and provide medical care. You have a job but the situation with travel causes the rest of the problems. If you really don't want to support exdh then start looking for another job. Once you get the job you have the luxury of telling exdh to move on. Until then you need him as much as he needs you.

 

#2. You need a sitter to take care of the children if you tell exdh to move on, and you still have the job with travel. I am guessing that you don't have family near by because that would be the obvious choice. If you have someone in your mind who would be able to help you with this...call them and start the communication process about what this would look like and cost you. If you don't have anyone in mind, put some feelers out and see what you come up with.

 

#3. If exdh moves to Florida, how will visitation occur? Who is responsible for the expense, and how much will it cost. If that is going to fall on you (even 1/2 of it) factor that in to the equation too.

 

#4. What kind of job opportunity is in Florida for exdh? It is a career opportunity or just a minimum wage job? If it is a career, he may need to move on and take a chance of getting on with his life. If it is just a minimum wage job....I wouldn't encourage him to move.

 

#5. What kind of influence is he on the kids? If he is a positive role model and a good father, then how will it impact them for him to be gone?

 

#6. Are there any resources he hasn't utilized, like back to work programs for inmates? Is he turning his nose up at getting help or has he really, really tried?

 

#7 If you are working, who will homeschool the kids? Are you okay with devoting you days to work and every even evening to hs? It is very hard to homeschool full time and to work part time, I can't imagine full time work and full time hs. If you are going to continue hsing, how much would it cost to get a part-time tutor? More than $300 I would figure.

 

#8. I can imagine the resentment of having someones actions rip a family apart and take all the trust with it. It seems like so far, you have been able to keep your family together as a whole and and to make the best of a horrible situation. His unethical actions have turned every rational on its head and now you are left to be bread winner and to support someone you may no longer hold in high regard. BUT, if you can take the violation of marriage and the violation of his work out of the picture....what is best for the kids right now? If you have to pay someone to watch the kids during the day, and for travel, and for tutoring....I would expect you to be paying $1-2,000/mth. Would you rather pay that to a stranger to take care of your kids, or the father? In essence, he is working. He is working for you. He is a manny and a tutor. If it would make you feel better, pay him a monthly stipend like you would pay a manny, and then let him pass the money back to you to pay for rent/housing/etc.

 

Great post!

[AlmiraGulch]

Wow....thanks so much to EVERYONE for taking the time to read my little diatribe, and to respond. Many of you have offered similar advice, and Tap tap, tap said the same, plus some. I'm going to respond to her and it should answer what everyone has already asked.

 

 

#1. You need a job to pay your bills, feed you and your children and provide medical care. You have a job but the situation with travel causes the rest of the problems. If you really don't want to support exdh then start looking for another job. [QV] Believe, me, I'm looking! Jobs in my field are few and far between right now, but I have every feeler out I can possibly get out there. Once you get the job you have the luxury of telling exdh to move on. Until then you need him as much as he needs you. [QV] You just hit the nail on there head. Ugh.

 

#2. You need a sitter to take care of the children if you tell exdh to move on, and you still have the job with travel. I am guessing that you don't have family near by because that would be the obvious choice. If you have someone in your mind who would be able to help you with this...call them and start the communication process about what this would look like and cost you. If you don't have anyone in mind, put some feelers out and see what you come up with. [QV] Two of my sisters live somewhat close, but not close enough. They have helped on occasion in the past, but there's a real possibility of my needing them and them not being available.

 

#3. If exdh moves to Florida, how will visitation occur? Who is responsible for the expense, and how much will it cost. If that is going to fall on you (even 1/2 of it) factor that in to the equation too. [QV] I hadn't thought of that, but I"d imagine that I'd end up paying 100%. 50% at minimum.

 

#4. What kind of job opportunity is in Florida for exdh? It is a career opportunity or just a minimum wage job? If it is a career, he may need to move on and take a chance of getting on with his life. If it is just a minimum wage job....I wouldn't encourage him to move. [QV] Minimum wage or so. If it were more, I'd encourage him to go. He could pay his restitution, gain back some self-esteem and maybe even pay me some child support, which would help offset the cost of a nanny.

 

#5. What kind of influence is he on the kids? If he is a positive role model and a good father, then how will it impact them for him to be gone? [QV] I struggle with this one the most. They love their dad. Adore him. He spends a lot of time with them. He doesn't drink, nothing overtly bad, and honestly mostly good. My fear is that I don't want them to look at him and think that HE is the way a man should be. I don't want them to think that it's ok for someone to screw up and have someone bail them out, over and over. They would hate for him to be gone, though. Really.

 

#6. Are there any resources he hasn't utilized, like back to work programs for inmates? Is he turning his nose up at getting help or has he really, really tried? [QV} He has tried all of those. He has not done anything more, though. Meaning, I don't know why he can't hire himself out as a handy man or something. We live next to an apartment community for Seniors and I don't know why he couldn't put of fliers for dog walking, painting, basic maintenance, running errands....whatever. It makes me mad that he hasn't done that, even though I've suggested it many, many times.

 

#7 If you are working, who will homeschool the kids? Are you okay with devoting you days to work and every even evening to hs? It is very hard to homeschool full time and to work part time, I can't imagine full time work and full time hs. If you are going to continue hsing, how much would it cost to get a part-time tutor? More than $300 I would figure. [QV] My littlest goes to PS. My oldest does most of it on her own since she's in high school. I've spent a ton of time researching curriculum and lesson planning. I'm here most of the time to help if she needs it, and even if I'm traveling we talk at night. We did that before and it worked pretty well, but I have to admit it works better with him being the primary. I still grade all of the writing, but he does basically everything else.

 

#8. I can imagine the resentment of having someones actions rip a family apart and take all the trust with it. It seems like so far, you have been able to keep your family together as a whole and and to make the best of a horrible situation. His unethical actions have turned every rational on its head and now you are left to be bread winner and to support someone you may no longer hold in high regard. BUT, if you can take the violation of marriage and the violation of his work out of the picture....what is best for the kids right now? If you have to pay someone to watch the kids during the day, and for travel, and for tutoring....I would expect you to be paying $1-2,000/mth. Would you rather pay that to a stranger to take care of your kids, or the father? [QV] I would rather not have to pay it to him. I know...sounds very bratty, but that's the truth. On the other hand, I'd rather it be him than a stranger. So...you make a good point., but In essence, he is working. He is working for you. He is a manny and a tutor. If it would make you feel better, pay him a monthly stipend like you would pay a manny, and then let him pass the money back to you to pay for rent/housing/etc.

 

Man, this is hard. Well, I'm making it hard. Everyone has given the same advice....suck it up and pay it. It just makes my blood boil. :cursing:

[AlmiraGulch]

I'd pay.

 

And really, I could see myself landing in this kind of situation. I sounds odd, but any woman without at least one horror story in her life is a total coward.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Thanks for that!:)

[dangermom]

All I have to say is that if you do pay the money, don't expect him to pay it back. Also, it sounds like you'll end up in the exact same situation in a few months, when he still hasn't made any more payments.

 

That is a really sucky situation. I'm sorry!

[AlmiraGulch]

All I have to say is that if you do pay the money, don't expect him to pay it back. Also, it sounds like you'll end up in the exact same situation in a few months, when he still hasn't made any more payments.

 

That is a really sucky situation. I'm sorry!

 

I have no expectation that he would pay me back. If he ever does get a job and in a position where he may be able to support himself, if he had ANY money at all I'd want it in child support. He obviously can't pay that, either. I don't even think about it because I have no doubt I'll never see it.

 

And no, I wouldn't be in the same situation because I'd be paying it on an ongoing basis so he could meet the terms of his probation, stay in GA and stay out of jail.

 

One must be very careful when deciding who to marry.

[kalanamak]

I

 

One must be very careful when deciding who to marry.

 

Truer words have never been spoken. :grouphug:

[Country Mouse]

Are you SURE that if you pay the money xh won't turn around and move to FL anyway?

That would be one of my main concerns.

[JFSinIL]

Pay the money, and think of it as spending the $300 for childcare. Don't think too hard about where and to whom it is going. Otherwise, I think you will be cutting off your nose to spite your face here. Sorry. It really isn't fair. :grouphug:

 

Plus, would they not miss their DAD if he had to move???? You are doing this for them, not him!!!!

[RamonaQ]

Pay the money, and think of it as spending the $300 for childcare. Don't think too hard about where and to whom it is going. Otherwise, I think you will be cutting off your nose to spite your face here. Sorry. It really isn't fair. :grouphug:

:iagree:

Honestly, you have someone that is serving as a tutor/ nanny. Personally, I think $300 is a good deal for that. I mean, when I hire people, it is none of my business how they spend the money I pay them. And, it is nice that he can be involved with the kids. But, yah, I agree that it is a total drag for you. Sorry.

[AlmiraGulch]

Are you SURE that if you pay the money xh won't turn around and move to FL anyway?

That would be one of my main concerns.

 

No, but I don't think he would. He really doesn't want to be away from his kids if he doesn't have to.

[kalanamak]

No, but I don't think he would. He really doesn't want to be away from his kids if he doesn't have to.

 

Yes, he seems to have found a sweet spot. You know, you could look at it from your advice. He carefully chose whom HE married. :D

[eaglei]

I'm probably jumping in where I shouldn't - but - why pay him a salary at all as was suggested, and have him pay you back? Why pay him a salary for being/doing what he SHOULD be doing - being a father and helping with his children. Seems to me things are working out for all of you right now - you have a job, a housekeeper, a tutor, and peace of mind for your children's care; he has time with his children and a place to live; the children have their father. From your post, it doesn't sound like he is asking for anything, so why muddy up the waters by offering him a salary? I am leaning towards just pay that bill for him (gritting your teeth all the while) and leave the rest alone. Seems like you have more in your favor with the present arrangement. Simply leave well enough alone.

 

I am so sorry for what you are going through.:grouphug:

[AlmiraGulch]

I'm probably jumping in where I shouldn't - but - why pay him a salary at all as was suggested, and have him pay you back? Why pay him a salary for being/doing what he SHOULD be doing - being a father and helping with his children. Seems to me things are working out for all of you right now - you have a job, a housekeeper, a tutor, and peace of mind for your children's care; he has time with his children and a place to live; the children have their father. From your post, it doesn't sound like he is asking for anything, so why muddy up the waters by offering him a salary? I am leaning towards just pay that bill for him (gritting your teeth all the while) and leave the rest alone. Seems like you have more in your favor with the present arrangement. Simply leave well enough alone.

 

I am so sorry for what you are going through.:grouphug:

 

Oh there's NO WAY I'm paying him a salary. I agree...he's doing what he should be doing.

 

What I'd pay is just that stupid bill. On top of free room and board, I think he'd be making out quite well.

 

And...thanks for the support. I appreciate it! :)

[AlmiraGulch]

Yes, he seems to have found a sweet spot. You know, you could look at it from your advice. He carefully chose whom HE married. :D

 

I know! So who's really the sucker here? Blah. Don't remind me.

[Anne in CA]

Unfortunately I agree that it probably is in your best interest to pay it and take care of your children in this way. There is no way you could get a nanny/ housekeeper for under a grand a month where I live so you come out ahead the way I do the math. Plus, you do know he has your kids best interest at heart.

 

My concearn is that legally the more responsibility you take for him the more legal liability you may have for him at some point. If he moves out is he going to want "palimony"? My dad supported a girlfriend for years and she sued him for a lot of money when he asked her to leave. Her sons stole a good deal of money and equipment from my dad. She won $30,000. This caused my dad real financial hardship, but judges in Eugene are crazy. I would get legal advice from a good lawyer before paying the money.

[kalanamak]

I know! So who's really the sucker here? Blah. Don't remind me.

 

 

I am reminded of what George Bernard Shaw and his wife said, once. GBS put forth that men were more intelligent than women, and his wife replied "You are right. Look at whom you married, and look at whom I married".

[AlmiraGulch]

Unfortunately I agree that it probably is in your best interest to pay it and take care of your children in this way. There is no way you could get a nanny/ housekeeper for under a grand a month where I live so you come out ahead the way I do the math. Plus, you do know he has your kids best interest at heart.

 

My concearn is that legally the more responsibility you take for him the more legal liability you may have for him at some point. If he moves out is he going to want "palimony"? My dad supported a girlfriend for years and she sued him for a lot of money when he asked her to leave. Her sons stole a good deal of money and equipment from my dad. She won $30,000. This caused my dad real financial hardship, but judges in Eugene are crazy. I would get legal advice from a good lawyer before paying the money.

 

I hadn't thought of that. I have several lawyer friends, a couple of whom are contract lawyers (none who practice family law, though). I wonder if I were to draw up a simple contract covering what he's doing, what I'm paying, I can agree to stop paying at any time, and he has to give X amount of notice before moving (unless legally bound to do so) if that would protect me? Hmmm....food for thought.

[AlmiraGulch]

I am reminded of what George Bernard Shaw and his wife said, once. GBS put forth that men were more intelligent than women, and his wife replied "You are right. Look at whom you married, and look at whom I married".

 

Love that!

[SonshineLearner]

Hey There,

If you pay him, and he has to report it, could you use it against your taxes for childcare? If he's willing to help... even though it's like this... it's better than him being in a bad relationship.... (and having someone you wouldn't want with your kids) and then... HAVING to let him have the kids over there... Could be better! Could be worse!

:(

[AlmiraGulch]

I am reminded of what George Bernard Shaw and his wife said, once. GBS put forth that men were more intelligent than women, and his wife replied "You are right. Look at whom you married, and look at whom I married".

 

Love that!

[BeckyFL]

I have no expectation that he would pay me back. If he ever does get a job and in a position where he may be able to support himself, if he had ANY money at all I'd want it in child support. He obviously can't pay that, either. I don't even think about it because I have no doubt I'll never see it.

 

And no, I wouldn't be in the same situation because I'd be paying it on an ongoing basis so he could meet the terms of his probation, stay in GA and stay out of jail.

 

One must be very careful when deciding who to marry.

 

Just another thought.... you also have to be careful about who spends so much time with your children. He isn't much of an example and the way things are seems to give him as much input into their lives, minds, and hearts as you have.

[RoughCollie]

Man, this is hard. Well, I'm making it hard. Everyone has given the same advice....suck it up and pay it. It just makes my blood boil. :cursing:

 

It would make my blood boil, too, because the way I see it, your ex is playing Alice in lieu of paying room and board and child support. You shouldn't have to pay the restitution on top of that -- it sure doesn't sound like it comes out even to me.

 

But for the sake of your kids, I agree with everyone else. You must.

 

Once you've decided to do that, I think two questions remain:

 

1. How do you approach your ex about this so that you get some benefit from it, however meager? Will he appreciate it, and work with you on things that currently bother you -- like maybe he could get a part-time job or pick up enough work to begin paying the monthly restitution himself within 3 months? How does he get spending money now?

 

2. Is there a way to rid yourself of this terrible anger and resentment, because it makes You feel badly? If there is a way that works, I'd sure like to know what it is.

[Barb_]

Pay the money, and think of it as spending the $300 for childcare. Don't think too hard about where and to whom it is going. Otherwise, I think you will be cutting off your nose to spite your face here. Sorry. It really isn't fair. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: You said it first and said it best.

 

Barb

[Momma2Many66]

I had an awful ex, I mean awful, so I can understand how hard this is for you to make this decision and I totally sympathize with you.

 

But, I would ABSOLUTELY want my children's lives to remain as normal as possible. I think that allowing him to stay on as nanny/tutor and paying his fine (as much as it would kill me) would allow their young lives to maintain some normalcy to it.

 

If he leaves, you have to send them off to Florida for visitations. You then wouldn't know who he may be seeing or what type of people he is around, so many variables can then enter the picture in which may cause you more worry. Especially with young impressionable girls.

 

I'd go for the best choice for now which is keeping him on, until another best choice arises for you. Pay the money, keep him local and keep your children's lives as normal as possible.

 

And try not to clench your teeth too much, it creats TMJ, I know, I have been there and done that.

 

Good Luck to you !

[Audrey]

Why not "employ" him as your housekeeper. He'll have a job for his resume and money to pay his debt.

 

I agree, it sounds like it would be as good a deal for you as for him.

 

 

:iagree: And, try not to be resentful of it. Think of it as paying him to be your nanny/housekeeper just as you would pay anyone else to do those jobs.