Vent: Humane Society made me sooooo mad!

[3littlekeets]

I think they are perfect examples of -- if you want to protect your animals and treat them like family -- almost like humans -- keep them indoors. For people who want their pets to be like members of the family, treat them as such. If you wouldn't let your two-year old run around the neighborhood, don't let your dog or cat run around the neighborhood.

 

Animals to many people are still meant to serve purposes other than being cuddled. They are often for protection of livestock and grains.

 

 

But those dogs ended up DEAD...shot to death (which were the two examples I was responding to!) because they didn't protect themselves, let alone the livestock or grains! So, what good did they do anyone in a permanent home in the ground? If I were a doggie, I'd take my chances and wait on a home that would make me part of the family than put me out to fend for myself against farmers with rifles and owners who didn't give a crap enough to fence me in! :001_huh:

[Pretty in Pink]

OP, I am sorry that you had such a negative experience at the HS. I know they are pretty stringent about adoption guidelines (overly so, IMO).

[mommaduck]

I need to correct you here. I come several generations of ranchers/farmers. While dogs need a pack, they don't necessarily need a human pack. Many working dogs view their farm animals as their pack and are quite content to live with them outdoors.

Thank you! And can I say that I know of a cat like this? Ours sees us as "his people". But he also saw our goats that way (a cat snuggled with two goats...it's an awesome sight).

 

As I've stated before...this is a FARM situation. Farm dogs, including labs, are quite happy outside with the rest of the animals, can sleep in the barn, and they still receive love, care, and attention of the owners. They aren't neglected nor abused.

[Haiku]

It grabbed at the rabbits toes through the bottom of it's hutch

 

I work for a rabbit rescue and we will not adopt rabbits to people who plan to keep them outside for this reason. We have heard/witnessed far too many horror stories of rabbits who were dismembered by neighborhood dogs, coyotes, raccoons, possums, and even cats. These animals will literally pull a rabbit out of its hutch piece by piece. We have taken in several rabbits who lost limbs/ears to predatory animals who attacked them through their hutch.

 

I would suggest that you house your rabbit indoors.

 

Tara

[Jen500]

 

Anyway, we walked away disgusted after being rejected and treated like vermin. Our kids were crying. It was just horrible.

 

 

Maybe you should have called first to ask about their adoption policies. That's what I did many years ago, and quickly found that I didn't meet any of the criteria. I didn't feel rejected or start crying. I was able to adopt a wonderful dog from our County Animal control services. Maybe you could try there. I have since adopted more dogs--from animal control and rescue groups.

 

Many animals are discarded, rejected, and treated like vermin. I'm sure it must be horrible for them too.

 

I hope you are able to find a nice dog for your family.

[3littlekeets]

Maybe if these shelters were more reasonable to deal with, more people would adopt pets from them and they wouldn't have to kill so many animals. But then I really don't think they care about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mama Geek

 

You asked what they stand to benefit, I believe it is the chance to forward a socialist druid agenda, but then you did ask.

 

Yeah...caring for dogs who wander into streets and become roadkill, or shot by local farmers, or eaten by wild predators -- very socialist...darned people. Same goobers who want sick and dying people to receive health care. Sickos :D.

[ktgrok]

I disagree with this. This statement seems to assume the poster doesn't have her act together. It's a piece of cake to get the surgeries done. A person who is committed to having their animals e/neutered will get it done. I just had my kittens, who are brother/sister, fixed. I knew from day one when I would have to accomplish it and had reminders on my phone so it didn't get away from me.

 

With a kitten you have a large window of time to fix them before they breed. With an adult cat that had kittens they can get pregnant while still nursing..it's actually a difficult thing to time. It doesn't mean she doesn't have her act together, it means its a difficult thing to do.

[Impish]

I think that the rules of the HS and rescues get to the point of insanity. Here, most animals aren't adoptable if there is a child under 12. The rescue groups want home visits. Before, during and after the adoption. Some won't adopt if you rent your home. Doesn't matter if your lease states animals are allowed. You rent, no pet for you. Some won't approve you if you have 'too many kids'. Apparently, the animal won't get enough attention if you have more than 2 kids. :001_huh:

 

If you want to experience discrimination, try to adopt a pet. Its amazing the grounds on which you can prove unworthy. Feeding a raw diet, not feeding a raw diet, no existing vet (because you don't HAVE a pet, so why would you have one? You're supposed to line up your vet and have interviews with them before applying for a pet, doncha know.) Dog must be leashed at all times. Dog must have free run time at the off leash area.

 

I've brought home babies from the hospital without the invasive procedures that rescues demand. :glare:

[mommaduck]

I think that the rules of the HS and rescues get to the point of insanity. Here, most animals aren't adoptable if there is a child under 12. The rescue groups want home visits. Before, during and after the adoption. Some won't adopt if you rent your home. Doesn't matter if your lease states animals are allowed. You rent, no pet for you. Some won't approve you if you have 'too many kids'. Apparently, the animal won't get enough attention if you have more than 2 kids. :001_huh:

 

If you want to experience discrimination, try to adopt a pet. Its amazing the grounds on which you can prove unworthy. Feeding a raw diet, not feeding a raw diet, no existing vet (because you don't HAVE a pet, so why would you have one? You're supposed to line up your vet and have interviews with them before applying for a pet, doncha know.) Dog must be leashed at all times. Dog must have free run time at the off leash area.

 

I've brought home babies from the hospital without the invasive procedures that rescues demand. :glare:

Well, some of these people do value animals more than children.

 

Speaking of such, what is with people carrying dogs into walmart and grocery stores??? These are not assistance animals...they are "carry in the purse" type toy breeds. Ugh! I always wonder, what if it has an accident in the back of the store or just the fact that they carry it through the food section...THAT is overboard.

[katemary63]

If they really cared about the animals, reasonable people would not be excluded from adopting from them b/c they didn't feed them a vegi diet or agree to make them indoor pets, or because they had children under a certain age in their home.

 

Just because you do not buy into all of the stuff they are pushing you to agree to does not mean that you are incapable of taking care of a pet or being a responsible owner.

 

Once again if the animals are not adopted out, they are killed. They could have gone to good homes.

 

:iagree::iagree: What we are dealing with here are people who have an ideal life in mind for a dog to live. It's like doggie heaven with a constant companion, air conditioning and a pillow top bed to sleep on. (Sarcasm to make my point.) And if you can't provide THAT life, then no life is a better choice. This is absolutely what many people think. I may agree that most dogs would PREFER to live in the house when their owners are in the house. But is a healthy outdoor life worse then NO life? That's just stupid.

 

And BTW, lots of dogs are adopted to people who work all day. These dogs are kept alone in crates and do you want to bet a lot of them spend some time whining from lonliness or discomfort. But that's okay, right? Come on, a dog whining in a kennel outside is no different or more unhappy then a crated indoor dog.

 

(FYI: I LOVE crate training and think it is the BEST thing you can do for your indoor dog! But I DO NOT think that a dog kept in a crate for 9 hour stretches while owners are at work is happier then an outdoor dog!)

 

Even people don't get the ideal life. Most people have to spend daily time alone, or in uncomfortable situations, or even in a state of hunger. But I'm sure they are glad to be alive. We should be doing what we can to find the highest number of dogs ACCEPTABLE homes. We should not be limiting dog adoptions to only those who agree with a preconcieved list of ideals for providing a perfect doggie heaven life. It's just impractical and may lead to unnecessary euthanizations.

 

Common sense has gone out the window at the A.S.P.C.A. that's for sure!

[Murphy101]

But those dogs ended up DEAD...shot to death (which were the two examples I was responding to!) because they didn't protect themselves, let alone the livestock or grains! So, what good did they do anyone in a permanent home in the ground? If I were a doggie, I'd take my chances and wait on a home that would make me part of the family than put me out to fend for myself against farmers with rifles and owners who didn't give a crap enough to fence me in! :001_huh:

 

Yeah...caring for dogs who wander into streets and become roadkill, or shot by local farmers, or eaten by wild predators -- very socialist...darned people. Same goobers who want sick and dying people to receive health care. Sickos :D.

 

 

Yeah! Better to let the humane society kill em first!:001_huh:

 

I'm sorry, but I see no logic in that at all.

 

Nature does not need the humane society to deal with animals.

 

To suggest that animals living like animals is a fate worse than death and thus it is more humane to kill them if they can't find people to pay to adopt them and treat them like human children is why I have pretty much no sympathy for the humane society or PETA at all.

 

This said by a woman who currently has a minature poodle, two cats, a rabbit, 2 parakeets, 2 hermit crabs, and a turtle and some other critters I'm forgetting to mention all as indoor pets. Well the hermit crabs and turtle are outside because they enjoy the 100 degree weather more than my ac. It happens this pets do better inside and I prefer them inside. I wouldn't have any problem with outdoor cats and restricted cared for outdoor dogs though. I certain wouldn't consider them better off at the SPCA or dead.

[katemary63]

To suggest that animals living like animals is a fate worse than death and thus it is more humane to kill them if they can't find people to pay to adopt them and treat them like human children is why I have pretty much no sympathy for the humane society or PETA at all.

 

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

[mo2]

That is ridiculous.

 

I'm frankly tired of having other people think they can legislate everything.

 

With all the libertarians on this board, I'm amazed so many people think that the Humane society should be allowed to dictate to you whether or not you allow your OWN animals to breed. Your cats, your kittens, your problem. They should stay out of it.

 

Dogs have lived outside for thousands of years. The bigger problem is that people have moved inside. Maybe the Humane society should just start dictating that people get their butts back outside with their dogs. LOL.

:iagree:

[StephanieZ]

The statistics on this website seem consistent with those I have seen elsewhere.

 

They estimate that 3,000,000 to 4,000,000 cats and dogs are euthanized in shelters each year in the U.S. From personal experience, I can tell you that the majority are young, healthy, adoptable pets. Especially with cats/kittens.

 

http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/pet_overpopulation/facts/overpopulation_estimates.html

 

In our community, the local shelter will not rehome cats or kittens at all. Any who are brought to the shelter are promptly (and inhumanely) euthanized. Period. There is no shelter alternative here.

 

So, if you choose to intentionally allow cats to reproduce, just be aware that those 6-8 (or more) kittens you are creating will find homes (assuming they do) in homes that could have been made available to the same number of kittens who will otherwise be euthanized or die a more tragic and painful death in the "wild".

 

Each female cat litters about 3 times each year. The kittens become fertile around 6 months of age. So, one female and her progeny can number SEVERAL MILLION in less than a decade.

 

If you allow your female to litter once. . . And have then 6 kittens to alter. . . Will you alter all of them before finding them homes? How much will that cost you? Do you have it budgeted? Are you aware that virtually every veterinarian and all shelters/rescues highly subsidize these surgeries and are LOSING MONEY on every one? So, if you take your 6 intentionally created kits for alters at $100 each (retail value $300-$800 each if not subsidized), you are accepting thousands of dollars of charity for your intentionally created pets. . . the purpose of this charity (by vets and organizations) is reducing the agony of pet overpopulation. . . And, of course, you have just intentionally contributed to it!

 

So, anyway, my point is. . . Do what you want to do, but don't ask a charitable (or any) organization to condone or contribute to it. The shelters and other adoption programs spend a lot of money to save these pets and to protect the community at large from the disease and just plain sadness of masses of homeless pets wandering loose. . . and it is within their mission to ensure that the pets are placed in homes that will not contribute to the exact problem they are battling.

 

The staff of these places have to walk those healthy pups and kittens to the euthanasia room, pick which ones die each week, hold them while they are killed, witness less than ideal procedures, and then bag their cooling bodies in black plastic garbage bags for "disposal." Doing that would quickly make anyone with a heart unsympathetic to those who choose to create more and more animals just for them to handle and kill.

[Wheres Toto]

I thought it was weird too but a dog lover friend of mine told me it was a good idea to crate train the dog and we did. She explained it is like a den for them. We usually now keep the crate open most times and our dog goes in there several times a day to nap:) It is her safe place:)

 

:iagree: We used to have a husky that we adopted. She had been picked up stray and was extremely neurotic - showed signs of having been abused. Both the vet and the trainer we took her to recommended crating her. She LOVED her crate. She used to hang out it in all the time and it really helped her nerves.

 

The country isn't the only place where kittens get dumped. I grew up in an apartment that technically didn't allow pets but people had cats. We ended up adopting a stray that had 6 kittens in the apartment laundry room and another time adopting 5 baby kittens that were just dumped off in one of the window wells around the basement windows. This was in suburban NJ, so far from country living. Stray cats are a constant problem.

 

I've adopted one dog (the husky above, we currently have a purebreed Samoyed that dh bought from a breeder) and 6 cats (including a purebreed himalayan) from various organizations. They always wanted the animals spayed/neutered (if they didn't do it themselves), wanted cats to be indoors, wanted to make sure dogs spent time with people and was careful about what dogs were adopted to people with young kids. I always understood. A good number of the pets they get for adoption come because the family had a baby and no longer could give proper time to the animal or the animal did not react well to the baby - why would they then put the dog into a similar situation? Some breeds do better with young children than others.

[mama2cntrykids]

I have to chime in again, lol. About 4-5 yrs ago our family decided to adopt a kitten. Well, we went to a lady who runs a private shelter. She wouldn't let us adopt a kitten. Why? Because we had kids and the kids might hurt the kitten. Well we said, let's look at older cats. She was fine with that until she heard us saying something about the cat being indoor/outdoor. That was a deal breaker too. She also told us that any kittens/cat that were going to be adopted out had to get their claws removed. HAD TO!

 

We made a quick exit, with my kids crying most of the way home (we drove for an hour to get to this place), and me fuming. I understand it's her shelter, but personally I thought (and still think) her rules were pretty stringent.

[Carrie12345]

She also told us that any kittens/cat that were going to be adopted out had to get their claws removed. HAD TO!

 

We made a quick exit, with my kids crying most of the way home (we drove for an hour to get to this place), and me fuming. I understand it's her shelter, but personally I thought (and still think) her rules were pretty stringent.

 

That's definitely a strange one! I've never met an animal advocate who endorsed claw removal in any way, let alone required it!

[sheryl]

This thread is headed in the wrong direction. :confused: Sorry for the pink. So, once again, I do think most/all of us agree on the basics of caring for our pets. To me we're in disagreement about the length of time and that leads to other issues.

 

 

I need to correct you here. I come several generations of ranchers/farmers. While dogs need a pack, they don't necessarily need a human pack. Many working dogs view their farm animals as their pack and are quite content to live with them outdoors.[/QUOTE] But, labs are NOT working dogs, typically. They make fine guide dogs as I'm sure you're aware. They retreive. But, DOMESTICATED dogs are also companions. Most people do NOT live on farms. Therefore, they have dogs for companionship. The farmers of USA may have them for assistance. Domesticated dogs once socialized with people because.they.are.social.will.recognize.their.human.family.as.their.pack.

 

Wild dogs consider their furry relatives as pack b/c they have no human interaction.

 

Sorry, had to change you back to black as that light pink hurts my eyes to read.

 

MOST ALL lab puppies will "play" with kittens or any other small animal they can get hold of. It is their nature. They aren't being mean, nor is it just those that are being "raised to be very assertive". Labs are high energy and VERY curious compared to other breeds. This is partly why they make good outdoor dogs. That's right. But, our lab puppies also loved rolling balls and running legs!! It's a dog's instinct to run/chase after anything that runs. Many times kids are tackled because of it. I can see where you're coming from "to a point", but the question for me is about the length of time. The lab is good outside for what? Farming? Again, there are other breeds that are more suitable.

 

Yes, capable DOES mean "able" (please look at the root word) I saw the root word, I wrote it earlier. ;). Many of the farm families here do no consider them to be "indoor dogs". Then they have the wrong breed. Labs are not "jobs" dogs as much as other breeds. Same with the farm families I knew in another state, halfway across the country. Farms and farm animals are different than living in town and having a "pet". The dogs have a job, not just to be cute and cuddly. We have cute and cuddly here....she's a family member. No, we don't put clothes on her. But, she adopted us as we adopted her! You wouldn't bring your horse inside and cuddle up with it at night, would you? No, that's unrealistic and don't know where you're going with that. I wouldn't bring in the cow either. But dogs are a smaller breed. The game changes. (okay, I KNOW that there are some here that would probably bed down in the barn with their horses given a chance :lol:, but generally speaking). MANY dogs are still "with their pack", well loved, well cared for, well sheltered, but don't live IN THE HOUSE with their owners.

Again, my concern is not that the dog is outside, but the L E N G T H of time it is.....there really is a difference.

[3littlekeets]

This thread is headed in the wrong direction. :confused: Sorry for the pink. So, once again, I do think most/all of us agree on the basics of caring for our pets. To me we're in disagreement about the length of time and that leads to other issues.

 

 

I need to correct you here. I come several generations of ranchers/farmers. While dogs need a pack, they don't necessarily need a human pack. Many working dogs view their farm animals as their pack and are quite content to live with them outdoors.[/QUOTE] But, labs are NOT working dogs, typically. They make fine guide dogs as I'm sure you're aware. They retreive. But, DOMESTICATED dogs are also companions. Most people do NOT live on farms. Therefore, they have dogs for companionship. The farmers of USA may have them for assistance. Domesticated dogs once socialized with people because.they.are.social.will.recognize.their.human.family.as.their.pack.

 

Wild dogs consider their furry relatives as pack b/c they have no human interaction.

 

Again, my concern is not that the dog is outside, but the L E N G T H of time it is.....there really is a difference.

:iagree: And, if the kids were devastated just not being able to take the dog home from the shelter, imagine how devastated they'll be if he doesn't show up at home because he got killed by a neighbor or hit by a truck, etc. You and the dog are bonding if you see it as a pet, not as a work animal.

[bairnmama]

I just wanted to chime in on our experience with our local rescue group, too. They have booths all.the.time in front of our local PetsMart asking for donations and people to sign up because they have so many animals that they don't have foster families for. I read their requirements for adoption and am not surprised that they are overrun with animals. In order to adopt from them you have to sign paperwork agreeing to ALL of the following:

 

-3 initial home visits before the dog is allowed to go home with you. All members of the household must be present at each visit.

 

-The dog will live exclusively indoors and be taken for no less than three 20 min walks daily and NEVER off leash - not even inside your fenced yard.

 

-You need a written vet reference and approval letter even if you have never owned any pets before.

 

-At least 2 unannounced home visits within 8 months of taking the dog home.

 

-The dog MUST be crate trained and crated at night and anytime you leave your house.

 

-Your yard must be fenced with an actual visual fence at least 5 ft high and preferably not chain link.

 

-You also have to agree to never leave the dog alone for the first 3 weeks it is with you in your home. An adult must be present 24/7 for that first 3 weeks.

 

-Only feed the dog certain brands of food and you must get prior approval if you want to change brands.

 

With these kinds of requirements, I'm surprised they find ANY acceptable families!

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

I just wanted to chime in on our experience with our local rescue group, too. They have booths all.the.time in front of our local PetsMart asking for donations and people to sign up because they have so many animals that they don't have foster families for. I read their requirements for adoption and am not surprised that they are overrun with animals. In order to adopt from them you have to sign paperwork agreeing to ALL of the following:

 

-3 initial home visits before the dog is allowed to go home with you. All members of the household must be present at each visit.

 

-The dog will live exclusively indoors and be taken for no less than three 20 min walks daily and NEVER off leash - not even inside your fenced yard.

 

-You need a written vet reference and approval letter even if you have never owned any pets before.

 

-At least 2 unannounced home visits within 8 months of taking the dog home.

 

-The dog MUST be crate trained and crated at night and anytime you leave your house.

 

-Your yard must be fenced with an actual visual fence at least 5 ft high and preferably not chain link.

 

-You also have to agree to never leave the dog alone for the first 3 weeks it is with you in your home. An adult must be present 24/7 for that first 3 weeks.

 

-Only feed the dog certain brands of food and you must get prior approval if you want to change brands.

 

With these kinds of requirements, I'm surprised they find ANY acceptable families!

 

:blink:

 

Poor dogs are not even allowed to run around outdoors in a fenced yard?! They are outdoors in fresh air and sunshine for only an hour a day?! Who exactly are the abusers, again?

[Impish]

Well, some of these people do value animals more than children.

 

Speaking of such, what is with people carrying dogs into walmart and grocery stores??? These are not assistance animals...they are "carry in the purse" type toy breeds. Ugh! I always wonder, what if it has an accident in the back of the store or just the fact that they carry it through the food section...THAT is overboard.

Its never failed to gross me out, the sight of a 'purse' dog in a grocery store or restaraunt. Animals and food don't mix for me. Yes, I have pets, but I still literally gag when I see a smuggled animal in stores.

[Ginevra]

That really depends on the breed of dog. I have a Pug,

 

Obviously, I mean dogs with the physical attributes to be outside all or most of the time. I'll wager that nobody gets a teacup poodle expecting to keep it outdoors. Small dogs are almost always intended to be a substitute baby, a little plaything. That's why they are called "Toy" breeds. :D

 

We chose a German Shepherd specifically because we do not want a "toy". We want a strong, athletic dog with a thick coat. The dog is physically able (and better suited) to being outdoors most of the time.

 

I also mean outdoors where outdoors is a viable option. Naturally, if I lived in an apartment in NYC, I would only have the option of having an indoor dog. If that were the case, there is almost zero chance that I would have a German Shepherd and there's not much chance that I would have any dog at all. But then, there's not much chance I would ever choose to live in NYC. :D I need room and space outdoors and would only pick a dog that needs that, too.

[mommaduck]

The length of time? Well, whenever the dog wants to head to the barn, then he may. Most of these dogs stay on their home property as they do recognise the owners as their pack and are fed there. Occasionally a couple of neighbouring farm dogs will get together and play, then go home...all are neutered/spayed. YOUR lab may be inside and love it. Another person's lab may be outside and love it. It all depends on what you get them used to. Yes, there may be other breeds more suitable. Many times these labs are mutts and mixed with other breeds, not intentionally but making them even more suitable for farm life. Also, a lab rescued and raised/trained for farm life is better than a lab sitting around the HS with the possibility of being put down while someone spends hundreds of dollars for a dog from a breeder. The point is, these people are rescuing dogs that are fully able to live in a certain atmosphere. They may not be the ideal dog, but they aren't dead and they aren't encouraging more breeding by buying puppies from the mills. No, they are working with what is available and in need of rescuing. As I said, I gave one dog up to be a hog herder. He lives outside, packed with the family and the hogs, probably sleeps on the porch and in the barn, is played with by children, and is happy with life and running (this dog not only loves to run, but loves to hunt...I remember the rabbits he used to bring to "gift" me with...the kittens he killed though, were new and did not run from them. I had them in a screened in porch and he kept breaking in to get to them). I think he is doing well compared to many others that are left sitting because people can't create the "doggie heaven" that a previous poster mentioned (and I'm pretty certain this dog thinks he actually IS in doggie heaven with all the room he has).

[Ginevra]

Originally Posted by Daisy

That is ridiculous.

 

I'm frankly tired of having other people think they can legislate everything.

 

With all the libertarians on this board, I'm amazed so many people think that the Humane society should be allowed to dictate to you whether or not you allow your OWN animals to breed. Your cats, your kittens, your problem. They should stay out of it.

 

Dogs have lived outside for thousands of years. The bigger problem is that people have moved inside. Maybe the Humane society should just start dictating that people get their butts back outside with their dogs. LOL.

 

That is the funniest thing I've read in a month! :lol: I'm laughing my bermuda's off!

 

One thing I've thought before is that when people insist that because dogs are social animals, they must be very close to the people who make up their "pack," is that horses are herd animals, yet I haven't seen people advocate room-sharing with horses. I've witnessed very close animal/horse bonds, though the horses are kept outside.

 

For that matter, I have had the pleasure of being very tightly bonded with animals kept outdoors or mostly outdoors. My dd was very lovingly bonded with my MIL's barn kitties. They loved her and she loved them. They lived a long, happy life and kept the mouse and bird population down.

[Audrey]

I really get agrevated with this line of thinking. It's true for SOME dogs! But others are happy as clams outside. Come on over, I'll show you!

 

I can agree with that to an extent. Even outside dogs still need their people. If you're out there with them, they're really quite happy. I think leaving them all alone, though, and not giving them the attention and affection they need is terrible. I've known inside dogs who go for 8, 10, 12 hours a day completely alone. That's terrible, too.

 

Inside or outside ... you still have to give them the care and affection they need. Otherwise, just don't get a pet, period.

[Nestof3]

Dogs have lived outside for thousands of years. The bigger problem is that people have moved inside. Maybe the Humane society should just start dictating that people get their butts back outside with their dogs. LOL.

 

:thumbup1:

[Mejane]

I've known inside dogs who go for 8, 10, 12 hours a day completely alone. That's terrible, too.

 

 

:iagree:For the people I know who work and have kids in school, this is their pet's life. Yet people have told me our dog is "abused" because we don't let him roam the house. :glare:

[FaithManor]

Here is where my outrage lies and I think that the OP has a right to be very annoyed!

 

Children can live in filth and vermin, be completely neglected, and totally abused...and this is somehow not that big of a deal in our society. The "rescue" system we have for them is pathetic, broken, and underfunded to say the least. Most families that need to have unannounced home visits will never get them because social workers have far too many cases to handle. But, try to take a dog (an animal that nature, God, whatever you believe) created to LIVE OUTDOORS and romp the land, give it a good home and farm to do what it's very instinct tells it to do...and NOPE, not good enough. Gotta have a stay at home dog parent, and a kennel, and a warm bed by a cozy fire, and special food, and social worker visits, and well-dog check-ups, and yada, yada, yada.

 

I'd like to see a lot of kids in my neighborhood hauled into the humane society instead of the local dogs and cats. Maybe they'd have a shot at a better life!!! There's a kid across the street that desperately needs intervention - maybe I could make him a dog costume and call animal control. Calling the cops and DCFS hasn't done any good.

 

Good grief! (Oh yeah, Faith is in a mood today and no I haven't read all the responses - I don't think my pounding headache could take it!)

[Stacy in NJ]

I don't need corrected, but thanks anyway.

 

You raise your dogs how you choose to, I raise.

 

Right. That's the point. Not everyone needs to raise their dogs in exactly the same way. Not all dogs are indoor house pets who see their human as their only pack.

[Imprimis]

Exactly.

 

LOL. I'm never going to get this conversation.

 

Yes, be responsible for your animals. I think we can all agree on that.

 

To what level of codling we have to treat the animal will probably vary widely.

 

Heck some people put clothes on their dogs and carry them around in purses.

 

My SIL puts doggie diapers down on the floor so her dog doesn't have to go outside in the winter to do its business.

 

Whatever. I think it is crazy.

 

:iagree: Come to the malls in the area I live in----where you'll see dogs being pushed around in strollers. Very expensive looking strollers, at that...

[Mimm]

I haven't read the whole thread but I would never adopt a dog. The attitudes of rescue organizations is truly amazing. When I was looking into getting a second dog, I looked into rescue. We are small dog people, we don't want large dogs (not enough room) but because our children are under ten, we are automatically disqualified from getting a small dog at all the rescues I looked into. Never mind that my kids were raised with a chihuahua who has never once been injured. The level of control that rescue organizations want over the dog even after it has been placed in your home was quite unwelcome. Some wanted to be able to drop in at any time and remove the dog for any reason they wanted at any time. I mean, seriously? No thanks. We got an unregistered shih-tzu from the paper that someone had had an oops-litter. His name is Monster and he's awesome.

[Danestress]

They are short staffed and can't really investigate as fully as might be ideal. So when they hear that someone wants an outside dog and has not spayed their cats because they want their children to get to see a birth, it's probably a red flag. Even though there are great dog owners who keep dogs outside or have an unspayed animal, these things may be associated with poor bets. They probably get dogs surrendered because the neighbors complain about nighttime barking and such, and they just make rules that make it easier for them, even if they don't yield perfect results.

 

And really, let's face it, she wanted to adopt an adorable puppy. They can find dozens of homes for adorable puppies. I wonder if she would have been rejected if she wanted to adopt an eight year old mutt with bad breath.

 

OP, I am so sorry. I am really sad that this happened to your children. I can't stand seeing mine disappointed, and I know that was a painful ride home.

[Imprimis]

 

Children can live in filth and vermin, be completely neglected, and totally abused...and this is somehow not that big of a deal in our society. The "rescue" system we have for them is pathetic, broken, and underfunded to say the least. Most families that need to have unannounced home visits will never get them because social workers have far too many cases to handle. But, try to take a dog (an animal that nature, God, whatever you believe) created to LIVE OUTDOORS and romp the land, give it a good home and farm to do what it's very instinct tells it to do...and NOPE, not good enough. Gotta have a stay at home dog parent, and a kennel, and a warm bed by a cozy fire, and special food, and social worker visits, and well-dog check-ups, and yada, yada, yada.

 

I'd like to see a lot of kids in my neighborhood hauled into the humane society instead of the local dogs and cats. Maybe they'd have a shot at a better life!!!

 

 

 

Isn't that the sad truth?!!

[Haiku]

Isn't that the sad truth?!!

 

Yes, but it's not a zero-sum game. The rescues and shelters don't need to lower their standards just because some kids live in crappy situations.

 

FWIW, I am (obviously) vegan and have strong views on animal welfare, but I don't consider myself PETA-type bonkers about it. It creeps me out to see (as mentioned above) people pushing dogs in strollers and stuff like that. My sister spends more on her dogs than I spend on my kids (and she has fewer dogs than I do kids!) and I think that's weirdy. We have 11 animal companions and we probably would not be considered "ideal" pet owners even though I volunteer for (and even sit on the board of one!) two different shelters/rescues. We do the best we can to provide our animals with the best home we can. I do think that sometimes rescues and shelters have overly-stringent rules, but I also understand why they have them.

 

Tara

[KidsHappen]

There are plenty of other ways to get a pet. I have owned a total of six cats and two dogs. None of them came from the Humane Society or SPCA. They first two were Maine Coons bought from a breeder. The third cat was abandoned by a feral mother. The fourth cat came home from my mother's one summer with one of my dd. It just showed at my mothers house as a stray while my dd was there for the summer and she became attached to it. The last two cats were adopted by private agency run through Petsmart (per hubby, I am no longer allowed to go to Petsmart :glare:). The first dog I took in from a member of this board who could no longer care for it due to drastic changes in life circustances and the final dog was received from a rescue agency due to ironic circumstances. They had taken in a Chihuahua and a Pomerainian neither of which were fixed and they managed to hook up in transit, leading to a litter of four pups.

 

I do meet most of the requirements in that all of my animals are fixed (except the youngest as he was too young when I got him). Many were fixed prior to being released for adoption. They are all indoor animals. I do have a regular vet and I am a SAHM. We have a fenced in yard, a dog friendly park and neighborhood. I own my own home and have owned animals for a long time. I have no little children. Most of the animals that were adopted from anyone did come with paperwork that asked many of these questions but most places are quite eager to home the animals so some are more lenient than others.

 

The last dog was adopted solely by my dd. She had to email the rescue agency, fill out the application, get a written referral from the vet, and phone referrals from two adult friends or neighbors. She had to agree to have him fixed, get any shots he didn't already have, provide consistant vet care, crate train him, etc. We had to travel two hours to get the dog. She did all of this herself, well except for the driving, (she is 13) and didn't have any problems at all. Of course the dog is with me and the other dog 24/7 unless we have to go somewhere but that is beside the point. If you are determined to get a dog, you can do it. I suggest in the future you work out the details via phone or email first.

 

ETA: I just wanted to comment on the whole inside/outside subject. Neither of my dogs will even go out to the bathroom without a human chaparone and one of them is a Golden Retriever! I am sure that there may be some dogs that are ok with it but my two prefer to be with their human at all times. I can't even go to the bathroom by myself.

Edited August 16, 2010 by KidsHappen

[Cindy in the NH Woods]

One thought: rather than allow your kitties to reproduce, adopt a pregnant female. We did, and it was an awesome experience for my family. All kittens and mother are in loving homes, two still with us. All fixed too.

 

Great idea! We actually just had an email from our cat rescue about fostering a pregnant female. (I wish we could foster her, but now have a dog who would stress the mama cat out.)

[Mynyel]

Here is where my outrage lies and I think that the OP has a right to be very annoyed!

 

Children can live in filth and vermin, be completely neglected, and totally abused...and this is somehow not that big of a deal in our society. The "rescue" system we have for them is pathetic, broken, and underfunded to say the least. Most families that need to have unannounced home visits will never get them because social workers have far too many cases to handle. But, try to take a dog (an animal that nature, God, whatever you believe) created to LIVE OUTDOORS and romp the land, give it a good home and farm to do what it's very instinct tells it to do...and NOPE, not good enough. Gotta have a stay at home dog parent, and a kennel, and a warm bed by a cozy fire, and special food, and social worker visits, and well-dog check-ups, and yada, yada, yada.

 

I'd like to see a lot of kids in my neighborhood hauled into the humane society instead of the local dogs and cats. Maybe they'd have a shot at a better life!!! There's a kid across the street that desperately needs intervention - maybe I could make him a dog costume and call animal control. Calling the cops and DCFS hasn't done any good.

 

Good grief! (Oh yeah, Faith is in a mood today and no I haven't read all the responses - I don't think my pounding headache could take it!)

 

:iagree:

 

 

I really do agree...however I am forced to point out that children don't get euthanized if the are taken by CPS and no one adopts them.

 

That said, it is a sad state of affairs when it seems that animals are more protected than children.

[mcconnellboys]

I've seen these sorts of things a lot in the last few years, too, along with an increase in pet "stuff" for sale everywhere. We even have a pet "barkery" here that bakes fresh gourmet biscuits for your pets.

 

Okay. I love my pets, too, but really?

 

So many folks live right on the edge of insolvency now days and whenever there's any sort of problem, such as when gas prices went up so much a couple of years ago, or folks lose income in an event such as the Gulf oil spill, the first things they give up are their pets.... I'm thinking that if we could be a little more realistic about the extras in life - for both people and their pets - it would yield a lot more savings for necessities in hard times.....

[3littlekeets]

:iagree:

 

 

I really do agree...however I am forced to point out that children don't get euthanized if the are taken by CPS and no one adopts them.

 

That said, it is a sad state of affairs when it seems that animals are more protected than children.

 

 

Yikes... we are going down a totally different road. And, from what I know about the limited political positions of the posters, the LAST thing some of them would want would be MORE government interference with their child rearing. :001_huh:

 

Dogs do NOT get "more" protection -- it is simply that there are less hoops and government regulations to go through to remove them from abusive homes and less "government" intervention telling individual agencies what they can and cannot do in terms of placement of pets. Trust me, I'm all for snatching kids from unfit homes somedays, but do you REALLY want to open that can of worms????? Yowsa...

 

Let's just stick with the topic -- I don't have to go through a judge to be deemed a fit pet owner or have my petrental rights removed. :lol:

[Gwenhwyfar]

 

-You need a written vet reference and approval letter even if you have never owned any pets before.

 

 

 

How in the world does a vet give a reference & approval letter for someone that they don't know from a hole in the ground??

[Mama Geek]

Here is an interesting article that I came across on another forum that fits right into this discussion.

 

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-08/asa-dfs081010.php

 

I hope that was added in as a link, but I am not sure.

[kwickimom]

And yet they (rescue organizations) wonder why people breed dogs or go and buy from breeders instead of rescues

 

btw- I breed labs and I have also owned shelter dogs. I have had some horrible shelter dogs who have not been good with children even though I was told they were "socialized" I have inside and outside dogs. We have hunting dogs and pets. I will never sign away my life for a dog ever again. The rescues have become insane.

 

I have a lab who LOVES to live outside. He wouldnt have it any other way. I also have a lab that lives in the house, who wouldnt have it any other way. Dogs are animals that provided with adequate shelter can live just fine outside.

 

IMO- NOT everyone should adopt a shelter dog. There are circumstances that a purebred puppy would be a better choice.

Edited August 16, 2010 by kwickimom
typo

[simka2]

And yet they (rescue organizations) wonder why people breed dogs or go and buy from breeders instead of rescues

 

btw- I breed labs and I have also owned shelter dogs. I have had some horrible shelter dogs who have not been good with children even though I was told they were "socialized" I have inside and outside dogs. We have hunting dogs and pets. I will never sign away my life for a dog ever again. The rescues have become insane.

 

I have a lab who LOVES to live outside. He wouldnt have it any other way. I also have a lab that lives in the house, who wouldnt have it any other way. Dogs are animals that provided with adequate shelter can live just fine outside.

 

IMO- NOT everyone should adopt a shelter dog. There are circumstances that a purebred puppy would be a better choice.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: I have raised and trained Labs as well, and not all are inside dogs!!!! Many will take their hunting instinct to good use as guard dogs, which is needed on acerage.

 

We do not adopt from shelters or rescues either. Iwill do the occasional private adoption from family to family, but we have been ied to way to much,

 

To the OP don't feel bad about buying a puppy...and you have every right to let your cats breed! I feel for the poor puppy that was deprived of your loving home, but I know you will find another!!!

[mommaduck]

I have raised and trained Labs as well, and not all are inside dogs!!!! Many will take their hunting instinct to good use as guard dogs, which is needed on acerage.

THANK YOU for saying this! There are many labs that are excellent OUTDOOR dogs. I'm sure there are many that are good indoor ones as well, but my experience has been more with the outdoor ones.

[hornblower]

You know what - I would not adopt to you either.

 

For the same reasons. The world does not need any more kittens. Want mousers - we've got ferals coming out of our ying yang. Spay/neuter. Period. Full stop. Any rescue or cat shelter can provide you with a huge # of cats. If you'll take ferals for your barns, we'll kiss you & deliver them ourselves.

 

Outside dog thing: Well, with an LGD maybe. Otherwise, NOPE.

 

Bottom line is this: the humane societies, the rescues, the shelters pick up the mess the general public makes, all the "I had to get rid of ...... because I'm moving/I don't want to train/kids lost interest/it's an ooopsie litter & I can't find owners for them/ it doesn't match my new couch/it pees/ it poops/ the vet bills are too much blah blah blah blah."

 

Until you've volunteered in a shelter, walked dogs & cuddled cats & come back the next day to find that they'd been euthenized overnight to make space for new incoming, or better yet, until you've been the person holding the animal, soothing them, telling them it's not their fault, that they're good dogs, sweet kitties - while the pink liquid goes in - until you do that, you don't get to make the rules. They do.

 

These organizations don't just want to place an animal. They want to CHANGE the way people care for animals, the value they have in our lives.

 

Because nobody wants to go to work & kill animals all day long. But that's not going to change until people like you change your view point of what it means to have an animal.

 

Every animal I foster is going to the BEST possible home, not just to any home. I invest a lot into these guys & they're not going to just 'good enough'. They're going to perfect. They deserve nothing less.

 

In Hope, An Animal Shelter Story - go ahead. Watch. Weep.

 

Don't tell me we need more kittens because you want to have the experience. Why does nobody want to have the experience of euthenizing litters of kittens?

 

My other bottom line is this: pet ownership should be a privilege.

 

 

Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight. ~Albert Schweitzer

[TXMary2]

Um, are you serious?

 

This is an organization who gets in millions of animals worldwide that are unwanted due to people not fixing their pets. They think it would be fun to have pups/kittens, then don't know what to do with them once the cuteness wears off and no one adopts them.

 

And as far as an outside dog, well of course. If God forbid I had to rehome one of my dogs, I would be the same way. Oh, we really really want a family pet to love, but by the way, it has to live outside. Yeh--thanks, but no thanks.

 

Really, I don't understand your outrage. Sounds like they were doing the responsible thing to me.

 

Are YOU serious? I am almost speechless. The Humane Society is a ridiculous organization that kills more animals than it places. A dog can live outside and be just fine - it's not a helpless child. My dog is an inside dog who makes us all crazy going in and out, in and out. Geesh.

[zaichiki]

It is standard practice for the Humane Society. They have put stringent rules in place. All logic and reasoning ability have left the building. Animals must be treated like humans. (Other than the forced spay/neuter, of course.) Let the kids experience the birth of kittens. I know you are planning on keeping them all and stopping unwanted births after. Get a dog and treat it like a dog. Let it run with the kids on your farm. (I would suggest letting it be an inside/outside dog. If not, I'm sure you have somewhere for it to bed down and be safe from the elements.

 

The Humane Society has these rules because so many people let time slip up on them and don't get the cats fixed fast enough repetitively. They end up bringing in the kittens. They get a dog thinking that it will be fine outside playing with the kids all day, and then the dog ends up lonely because the kids don't go outside that much. The weather is nasty for long stretches keeping them in, or they just get older really fast and don't want to roam the acreage. Dog gets bored and ends up being a nuisance. Dog is returned. Because they see it happening, they don't realize that there are a lot of families who DO what they are saying they will and have animals that live long, happy lives. They never see those animals. I think they have trouble believing that they exist.

 

:iagree: Every word!

[justamouse]

You need a Great Pyrenees or a Turkish Akbash. I love those dogs something fierce and would kill to have one, but we don't have the space they need. The Turkish akbashes prefer to be outside with the flock, they'll tolerate being inside, but not much. BUT they are loving dogs, and soooo calm and even tempered. When we were first married we lived in a carriage house on 150 acres, the owner flocked his animals with an Akbash and that dog was the Best. Dog. Ever.

[TXMary2]

I've never heard of labs & retreivers being lap dogs. They weigh 80 pounds. I thought labs were bred to be hunters? Water dogs? Duck hunting?

 

LOL- our chocolate lab weighs 65 pounds and is not shy about throwing himself on our laps. He's very sweet and it's hard to tell him to get lost when he loves us so much :)

 

As for the water......if he sees a pool, pond or river he goes for it!!