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Pam B

Teaching Textbooks Scope & Sequence??

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Does anyone know where or IF there is a scope & sequence for TT? I'm wanting to compage what my DD will be learning in TT Algebra vs Saxon Algrbra 1.

 

Thanks!

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Is the table of contents the same as the scope or just my only option? :D

 

I thought about the table before, but thought the scope was more... skill specific??? :confused:

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The TOC or Scope and Sequence will still not tell you the depth of the material covered.

 

TT does not go as deep as other programs--it covers the 'basics' and stops there. TT's program is based on the SAT/ACT tests--not on future math needs.

 

Saxon's Algebra 1 will cover the concepts of TT's Algebra 1 at a much deeper level--with more challenge/thought from the student. TT's Algebra 1 is lacking a few of the main concepts--but not that many.

 

TT's Algebra 2 falls very short of Saxon's Algebra 2 (which has more standard Algebra 2 concepts).

 

TT defers much of their Algebra 2 course/concepts to their Pre-Algebra.

 

There is no comparison between Saxon's Advanced Math and TT's Pre-Calc.

TT's Pre-Calc is more of an Algebra 2 course with a PREVIEW of Pre-Calc.

 

Not every student NEEDS to complete Pre-Calc or Calc for their future career goals--but if I had a student who I knew would be needing to take college level maths, I would have them do a program other than TT.

 

If I had a student who was non-mathy, and only needed the basic skills then TT might be a consideration..

 

Just like other subjects such as English, not every student NEEDS to read all of Shakespeare to be a well rounded adult. Not every student NEEDS Calculus either.

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The TOC or Scope and Sequence will still not tell you the depth of the material covered.

 

TT does not go as deep as other programs--it covers the 'basics' and stops there. TT's program is based on the SAT/ACT tests--not on future math needs.

 

Saxon's Algebra 1 will cover the concepts of TT's Algebra 1 at a much deeper level--with more challenge/thought from the student. TT's Algebra 1 is lacking a few of the main concepts--but not that many.

 

TT's Algebra 2 falls very short of Saxon's Algebra 2 (which has more standard Algebra 2 concepts).

 

TT defers much of their Algebra 2 course/concepts to their Pre-Algebra.

 

There is no comparison between Saxon's Advanced Math and TT's Pre-Calc.

TT's Pre-Calc is more of an Algebra 2 course with a PREVIEW of Pre-Calc.

 

Not every student NEEDS to complete Pre-Calc or Calc for their future career goals--but if I had a student who I knew would be needing to take college level maths, I would have them do a program other than TT.

 

If I had a student who was non-mathy, and only needed the basic skills then TT might be a consideration..

 

Just like other subjects such as English, not every student NEEDS to read all of Shakespeare to be a well rounded adult. Not every student NEEDS Calculus either.

 

:eek: Panic Attack is now setting in....

I have heard so much great things about TT, and DD was not doing that great, so decided to switch. EEK! I wonder if I should let my son- going in to pre-algebra do "her" TT algebra 1??? My thoughts also, on switching to TT was that I just wanted her to really understand the whole algebra thing before going into the deeper stuff.

 

As a side note- I really don't like to exclude things in their education because they "might not need it". I want them to have the options open IF they DO need it. KWIM?

 

So...... Thoughts? Anyone???

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TT's Algebra 1 program is NOT a Pre-Algebra level text.

 

A good Pre-Algebra will go back through the basics one more time to SOLIDIFY concepts--and near the end of the course it will introduce multi-step problems as well as basic principles of Algebra (simple single-variable equations and negative numbers). Most students at the Pre-Algebra level are going through puberty. This is NOT the time to throw a bunch of new concepts at them...time is better spent shirring up a strong foundation that will make learning and practicing the principles of Algebra easier.

 

TT's Algebra does start off with a 'review' of concepts typical of a Pre-Algebra text--but the bulk of the material is true Algebra 1--this is the one TT text that comes close to standards.

 

I'm nervous when I hear about people using TT one or even two years above 'level' (meaning the standard level the student should/is working on)... there will soon be a ton of 'average' 5th graders working Algebra 1... it sounds good--on paper that is... in reality these students are getting a SHALLOW Algebra education (maybe learning the mechanics but they are NOT ready for the logic/whys that are so very important in college maths)...also VERY FEW 6th graders could pass my Geometry class! (There are always exceptions though, as an 11yr old HIGHLY GIFTED student was at the top of the class last year)...

 

Being 'ready' for a course is much different than working through an easier course...

 

This past year I worked with a wonderful young man (9th grade) who had completed Algebra 1 and Geometry. He had a VERY difficult time handling the abstract concepts of Algebra 2... his Algebra background (Foersters) was very solid--but he was NOT MATURE enough to keep going at an accelerated pace... he felt defeated and dumb!--even when he was still a year or more above his peers! In the case of this student we slowed down--and he will finish Algebra 2 by Christmas... and he will be more than ready for Pre-Calc...the extra 6+ months will make a HUGE difference in his success.

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:eek: Panic Attack is now setting in....

I have heard so much great things about TT, and DD was not doing that great, so decided to switch. EEK! I wonder if I should let my son- going in to pre-algebra do "her" TT algebra 1??? My thoughts also, on switching to TT was that I just wanted her to really understand the whole algebra thing before going into the deeper stuff.

 

As a side note- I really don't like to exclude things in their education because they "might not need it". I want them to have the options open IF they DO need it. KWIM?

 

So...... Thoughts? Anyone???

 

I wouldn't have a panic attack. My oldest did TT through Pre-Calc and Calc with Chalkdust and has since placed out of needing math at his college (tested past Calc 1). He also did well on the SAT and ACT helping him get great scholarships.

 

My middle son is following a similar path. Out of curiosity I just bought (within the past month) a copy of Lial's Pre-Calc to let middle son look at it. He looked at it briefly and saw that it covered the same topics. He didn't see any he didn't recognize. I do know it will cover some things in more depth (esp matrices) and explained that to him, but matrices are one big issue I have with TT. (It's not all that big overall, but nonetheless, it's there. It doesn't stop me from liking the curriculum.) When he picked a random question from a chapter end he did it successfully. I don't have his stats book in yet, so I told him to start school this year I'd like him to go through the chapter review problems to see where, if anywhere (besides matrices) he needs to add to his math education. I expect there will be some, but it will take a month or less. I'll have him keep track of any so I'll know more for future threads.

 

I don't regret my choice to use TT at all, but I also don't regret buying this set (book and solutions cost roughly $10 total including shipping) to double check or solidify his prep. He's going into a competitive field. In my experience, TT has given my boys such a good foundation that they can then easily go further. When I see many students who have a "more rigorous" math education from the start, they tend to know "in general" what to do, but are shaky on the foundations and exactly when to do what. Quite honestly, a mix of both just might be the ideal.

 

All that said... I should also mention that certain texts are better for certain students and worse for others. The best math text for any student is one they can truly learn the math from. If they aren't learning, it isn't working. And yes, age can make a difference. My older two boys easily did Alg 1 in 7th and started from there. My youngest needed to delay until 8th due to not being mentally ready. Now he's doing well though (using TT).

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I guess one large reason I am going into a panic is that she is in 9th grade this year. So, the clock is ticking. She is just finishing her other Saxon book (8/7). It took us literally a year to go through it, slowing down at the tough areas and going back when she needed to review. We worked through the summer this year and she will do it again if that is what is needed. I talked to DH last night, telling him my concerns and such. We do hate to switch programs, even for one year, but at the same time, like I said before I just really want/need her to understand it!

 

:bigear: :bigear: :bigear: :bigear: :bigear: :bigear:

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I don't regret my choice to use TT at all, but I also don't regret buying this set (book and solutions cost roughly $10 total including shipping) to double check or solidify his prep. He's going into a competitive field. In my experience, TT has given my boys such a good foundation that they can then easily go further. When I see many students who have a "more rigorous" math education from the start, they tend to know "in general" what to do, but are shaky on the foundations and exactly when to do what. Quite honestly, a mix of both just might be the ideal.

 

 

What did you say the $10 book was called?

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Both programs are strong--but Saxon is 'unique'. The terms and even the problem types are a bit different from other programs. With Saxon either it works or it does not...I've seen both extremes--and not any in between.

 

Lial is comparable in sope/sequence but it is traditional in presentation. Concepts are taught then built upon. What you learned in one section you will use in the next. What you learned in one chapter will be used in the next...concepts are taught as 'skills'. As a teacher/homeschool mom I have been able to EASILY adjust Lial to different learning types/levels--the text teaches above the test--so there will be problems that will challenge honors students that can easily be omitted for average or below average students without hurting the integrity of the program.

 

Saxon teaches in increments. What is learned in one lessons is practiced a 'bit' (5 or so problems with the rest of the homework review of previous lessons). The next day's lesson will be totally UNRELATED to the previous lessons...again providing a 'bit' of a concept...Some students enjoy the variety and can easily put the jumbled pieces together logically... many other students cannot. The first 30 or so lessons in each text are primarily review and move a bit slow... after that the speed of new-unrelated concepts/lessons increases dramatically--and the homework will contain problems that have been 'expanded' (because the students have learned new skills in the previous lessons)--and these expanded problems will have NO example in the text--NO lesson that shows how to work through them.

Also with Saxon there is a set amount of problems. It is vital that a student work ALL of the problems--because teaching occurs within the homework as the students practice combining the bits of the concepts.

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What did you say the $10 book was called?

 

What I bought is Lial's Pre-Calculus text and solutions to double check TT's through Pre-Calc. It's beyond both Alg 1 and Alg 2. I suspect you can do the same with Alg 1 though. Jann ought to be able to give you ISBN numbers to search with. Older editions are still fine and cheaper. I bought mine off e-bay when I was buying college texts for the boys.

 

When my boys were in their earlier stages I used to bring home ps tests to check their knowledge with. I quit when I was satisfied mine knew based on what they were through (allowing for the slower intro of some topics with TT). My middle son supposedly got one of the highest scores his adviser had seen on his cc math placement test (which means it couldn't have gone into Calc as he hasn't done that yet - he's only completed through TT's Pre-Calc).

 

With regards to Saxon... I briefly looked at that way back when we first started homeschooling and couldn't stand it. I don't like the way it jumps all around. However, every curriculum works for someone. That one just isn't us at all.

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What I bought is Lial's Pre-Calculus text and solutions to double check TT's through Pre-Calc. It's beyond both Alg 1 and Alg 2. I suspect you can do the same with Alg 1 though. Jann ought to be able to give you ISBN numbers to search with. Older editions are still fine and cheaper. I bought mine off e-bay when I was buying college texts for the boys.

 

When my boys were in their earlier stages I used to bring home ps tests to check their knowledge with. I quit when I was satisfied mine knew based on what they were through (allowing for the slower intro of some topics with TT). My middle son supposedly got one of the highest scores his adviser had seen on his cc math placement test (which means it couldn't have gone into Calc as he hasn't done that yet - he's only completed through TT's Pre-Calc).

 

With regards to Saxon... I briefly looked at that way back when we first started homeschooling and couldn't stand it. I don't like the way it jumps all around. However, every curriculum works for someone. That one just isn't us at all.

 

Okay. I never really thought about buying older/cheaper versions to check their where abouts. Hmmm... The choices. Sometimes they are just too much! Don't get me wrong- I love HAVING choices... but sometimes..... :confused:

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