Dog Advice: Need Help With Saucy Puppy!

[WishboneDawn]

I posted picture awhile back of our new and totally cute little puppy. She's lab/pitt/collie/whatever. Definitely more pitt and lab then anything else though. She's also about 4 months old now, tremendously smart, very easily trained when food is involved and terribly snotty when she gets wound up.

 

We're battling her on the issue of furniture (I don't want her on it). She'll jump up either to get attention from those on the couch or because she's bouncy from play. I'll stand up, point and she'll get off. Then back up. I know, keep at it and I will.

 

But there are times I go to pick her up off the couch and she starts snarling and biting. This is not play anymore. This is serious stuff for her and she's snapping, biting and growling. She sounds absolutely vicious.

 

My parent's little Lhasha Apso/terrier mix did the same thing as a puppy and still does on occasion but they don't seem to mind because of her size but my puppy is going to be 30-40 pounds and that behaviour won't fly.

 

Right now I hold her tight so she can't hurt me until she calms down. If she doesn't and/or the kids are around I'll put her in her crate to chill out. The behaviour seems to have gotten a little better but I'm wondering if there's a better way to deal with this.

[Rebecca VA]

Wow, she doesn't seem to know her place in the hierarchy of your family.

[WishboneDawn]

I was sort of thinking that. :( I previously thought that because she did the submissive/excited peeing thing and was so easily trained we were doing well with the hierarchy thing. Not so, eh?

 

I did remember an earlier thread with the advice on Leading the Dance so I'm reading that right now. Ideally, and to keep kids and other pets safe, I want her on the lowest rung in the house. :)

[MariannNOVA]

OK - I just wanted to give you a heads up that when we channel doran, this thread title is going be right up there with the 'I can't fit my ribs in the slow cooker; thread title.:lol::lol::lol:

[hornblower]

Definitely do the Leading the Dance exercises.

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Writing/LTD.html

 

 

As I've posted before but I'll keep on posting until these myths finally disappear - I don't hold much stock in all the dominance & hierarchy crap tossed around because it's based on MYTHS and misunderstandings of normal wolf behaviour.

 

American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior (AVSAB) position statement on dominance:

 

http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/dominance%20statement.pdf

 

"Despite the fact that advances in behavior research have modified our understanding of social hierarchies in wolves, many animal trainers continue to base their training methods on outdated perceptions of dominance theory."

 

 

HWVR - lots of dogs do benefit from having much clearer rules & that's where the Leading the Dance Protocol comes in.

 

I'd actually say though that the most important thing you're going to do with this pup is ZEN.

 

If you want to teach nothing else at all, I'd work through Zen like crazy. Zen is the foundation for self-control & for realizing that she's not the center of the universe.

 

Here's the Intro to the program which explains how to get the behaviours etc.

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Levels/LevelBehaviours/LevelsBook.html

 

 

 

 

 

Zen starts in Level One. It's the last behaviour listed:

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Levels/ByLevel/1Level.html

 

 

 

I'd also ASAP start teaching her a get ON & and get OFF behaviour - FAR away from the couch or any other furniture. Start outside or on the deck or in a room you rarely use & use something like a flat topped Rubbermaid storage bin. Reward her for getting on it (lure it if you're impatient), reward her for getting OFF it - again, if you want to make it simple, just lure it.

 

 

Do tons of reps. If you've been using the word OFF already for the furniture you may want to come up with a different word for this trick because it's possible this word is a 'poisoned cue' - associated with doing something else or emotion etc. So maybe choose something like 'ground' or 'hit the floor' or use the word for "off" in another language.

 

This is a TRICK you're teaching her, which will translate later to being able to tell her to get on & off anything (like picnic tables in parks, tree stumps, backgates off trucks, large rocks - that's how you can get great photos of dogs) Once you think she understands the word, then you could try using it when she gets up on furniture & you want her off.

 

For now, I'd keep a drag line on that dog at all times. A drag line is 6-8 foot length of leash attached to a collar. Dogs learn really fast to not trip on it & the beauty of the drag line is that of course you can move the dog if you need to without putting your hands near her.

 

So, if she gets up somewhere you don't want her to be, you will grab the line, pat your leg & use your cheery voice to call her to you. Give her a treat. Ask for a sit, give her a treat. Ask for a down, give her a treat. Maybe do ten puppy push ups: sit, down, sit, down, sit, down. Treat each bhvr. Then say good dog & go do your own thing.

 

ALSO - is the dog getting enough brain activity (training, puzzle toys etc) & exercise?

 

AND is she getting enough quiet time? I fostered a 4 mo husky shep cross whom I had to make sure to arrange quiet time for. She was like a baby that would get over tired & turn bratty. So she'd get a kong or a favourite toy & someone would pet & snuggle her on her dog bed & she'd finally have a nap.

 

 

Lastly - is this dog being socialized like crazy with other dogs? This is an obnoxious age & this age dogs often benefit from the companionship of lots of older dogs who will not tolerate nonsense & will let princess know if she's being a brat. There is something that trainers call a 'puppy licence' and that's when young dogs generally get away with being obnoxious, biting other dogs' tails etc. But the puppy licence expires - usually around the 4mo mark & older dogs will begin to tell the brat to 'grow UP, jerk!'. :DThey will also tire her out if they play well. You also have a mix that has potential for DA so you need to socialize her very thoroughly.

 

happy training!

[kokotg]

Jean Donaldson has a book on resource guarding called "Mine!" that I found really helpful when my dog was guarding high value food and treats. I can't find my copy right now, but I'm nearly certain there's a whole section on guarding furniture, with a very detailed, step by step plan for how to fix it. It's a behaviorist approach--it involves taking baby steps and rewarding the dog for giving you the right response.

 

ETA: Donaldson is also very anti-"it's all about pack order!" thinking. The intro to the book explains it all in a very clear way that made a lot of sense to me....resource guarding is a behavior that makes a TON of sense to a dog and would be a positive trait for a dog to have in the wild (you don't want to be the dog who just rolls over and lets the other dogs have whatever they want). Your dog isn't growling to make a principled stand against you as pack leader; he's growling because he wants the sofa, and that's how he tells you that.

Edited August 13, 2010 by kokotg

[WishboneDawn]

We do have an older rottie/lab mix who she plays with and I think may be starting to lay down the law a bit. I think you're right Hornblower about getting more rest. I've been letting her stay out of the crate longer but I think she still needs less time out since when she's up she and the other dog are playing hard.

 

And what you're saying about the myths is starting to sink in I think. :)

 

But I've got her tied to me right now and am reading the links. Thank you!

[WishboneDawn]

OK - I just wanted to give you a heads up that when we channel doran, this thread title is going be right up there with the 'I can't fit my ribs in the slow cooker; thread title.:lol::lol::lol:

 

:D

 

In case you're wondering the sauce for this dog is definitely Sweet & Sour!

[hornblower]

One more thing b/e it's not clear from your post:

 

you need to socialize her to tons of strange dogs. Having just one dog buddy is not enough. I adopted a dog who lived since puppyhood with another dog & came advertised as 'good with dogs' because of how well she got along with that dog.

 

Turns out she wasn't socialized at all with other dogs, is scared of dogs she doesn't know & was hugely leash reactive when I first got her. She adores all dogs once she knows them. UNTIL that time, she acts like she wants to kill them. :lol:

 

So your pup needs to be meeting lots of strange dogs. I'd be aiming for 7 (preferably new) dogs/week because it's an easy # to remember. On leash while out walking & also offleash in dog parks.

 

I know you have lots of reading already (but hey, WTM folks love a good read, right? LOL) but I think you should have a quick read on

http://www.dogstardaily.com/ in the center menu there's a link for Training Textbook & there's a section on Adolescent Dogs - with 3 articles on "adolescent changes", "fighting" and "preventing adolescent problems". You're just about at the adolescent stage so this is good to tackle now.

 

(Oh & if you want a puppy socialization checklist, here's one. Essentially expose the pup to every item on the list. So long as she responds appropriately (happy, tail waggin, unconcerned) , stuff cookies in her face. If she doesn't, you need to start classical counter conditioning ASAP. There is some evidence that with dogs there are developmental windows for overcoming fear of certain things so it's worth going through the small trouble now. http://www.dogpact.com/Services/Training/Pet_Manners/socializeChart.pdf)

 

Happy reading & happy training :)

[WishboneDawn]

So your pup needs to be meeting lots of strange dogs. I'd be aiming for 7 (preferably new) dogs/week because it's an easy # to remember. On leash while out walking & also offleash in dog parks.

 

:blink:

 

That may not be doable. We live way out in the boonies. The other dog around us is out neighbour's senior German Shepard who does not tolerate other dogs. Dog parks are some fancy-pants thing we've heard about on TV. :D

 

But I do have friends and family with dogs and I can encourage them to bring them when they visit or I can take her out to see them. It'll just take special trips is all.

[hornblower]

:blink:

 

That may not be doable. We live way out in the boonies. The other dog around us is out neighbour's senior German Shepard who does not tolerate other dogs. Dog parks are some fancy-pants thing we've heard about on TV. :D

 

But I do have friends and family with dogs and I can encourage them to bring them when they visit or I can take her out to see them. It'll just take special trips is all.

 

:thumbup: do make the effort! Bribe them if you have to! Even in dog breeds which are generally known to be good with dogs, lack of socialization can lead to a dog who is fearful of his own species. And with that hint of pittie, I'd be making doubly & triply sure.

 

Do you have a large fenced area? Are you within 1-2h of a largeish town? Because you could see about advertising your fenced space for rent for doggie events. Many people are searching for safe areas to train or exercise their dogs. I have been keeping an eye out for a fenced large field I could rent once in a while....

 

BTW, I regularly drive out almost 1hr each way to the dog beach & in the winter again about an hr in the opposite direction to a large meadow for doggie play dates with our friends. Never underestimate the lengths crazy dog people will go to for some things :D