ADHD and Gifted?? Help me understand WISC-IV Scoring!

[Guest Yorkiegurl]

First time poster...long time lurker!

 

I took my daughter (Ana – 7) to a Psychologist due to behavior concerns. She is VERY impulsive, hyper, talks non-stop, argues, gets angry, can't follow rules, needs to be "first", constant humming, singing, mouth noises and can't sit still to save her soul. She is LOUD!! She can be over emotional and fails to see how her actions affect others. She "leaps...then looks." She is very literal and is QUICK to correct any and every one she talks to. She thinks she has all the answers and constantly interrupts to give her opinion. She was diagnosed with ADHD-Combined type and was put on Ritilan which has made a HUGE difference in her behavior when the meds are in her system. The biggest problems I have now are in the morning, evening and night time (when meds have worn off). Pretty typical so we are seeking help.

That being said, Ana is a very loving, caring and sensitive child. She always wants to please. She is beyond adorable….but maybe I’m just bias.

Here's my problem. I took her to a psychologist (different from the one who tested her as he no longer takes my insurance) for behavior therapy, and he questioned her ADHD diagnosis after looking over her WISC-IV test resluts. The red flag for him was her Processing Speed Index (131). He indicated that kids with ADHD have usually have deficits in the PSI score.

Is it possible to have ADHD with that high of an PSI?? Here are her scores:

Verbal Comprehension - 110 - 75th percentile - High Average

Perceptual Reasoning - 104 61st percentile - Average

Working Memory - 102 - 55th percentile - Average

Processing Speed - 131 - 98th percentile - Very Superior

Full Scale - 115 - 84th percentile - High Average

Sub Scores:

Verbal Comprehension

Similarities - 11 - 63rd percentile

Vocabulary - 12 - 75th percentile

Comprehension - 13 - 84th percentile

Information - 10 - 50th percentile

Word Reasoning - 11 - 63rd percentile

Perceptual Reasoning

Block Desing - 11 - 63rd percentile

Picture Concepts - 11 - 63rd percentile

Matrix Reasoning - 10 - 50th percentile

Picture Completion - 11 - 63rd percentile

Working Memory

Digit Span - 10 - 50th percentile

Letter-Number Sequencing - 11 - 63rd percentile

Arithmetic - 12 - 75th percentile

Processing Speed

Coding - 17 - 99th - percentile

Symbol Search - 14 - 91st percentile

Can anyone help me figure out what is going on here??? Ana is so very, very bright. I know she is destined for great things if we can find a way to focus her in the right direction. If it matters, Ana was adopted, internationally, as an infant. She is a very picky eater and takes forever to finish a meal (even if she likes it). She tends to speak in a loud voice and is constantly asked to “tone it down†or “use you inside voiceâ€.

Any insight would be GREATLY appreciated!!

 

[EKS]

Was she on medication when she took the test?

[Guest Yorkiegurl]

Was she on medication when she took the test?

 

No, she wasnt' medicated (I should have mentioned that!)

Edited August 11, 2010 by Yorkiegurl

[EKS]

Does she seem gifted across the board to you? I mean not just quick, but does she have an amazing vocabulary or does she do puzzles well or does she seem to understands concepts easily or more deeply than you would expect for her age?

 

The reason I ask is that I'm wondering if the other scores are off for some reason.

 

Also, do you have the raw scores? There is a possibility that the evaluator calculated the scores incorrectly for that one index *or* for all of the others. If you have the raw scores you can check for that. It is extremely odd that that one index is so high. Especially if she has been diagnosed with ADHD as a relatively low PSI is an indicator for ADHD.

 

Usually gifted children, whether or not they have an LD (including ADHD) in addition to the giftedness, have PSI and WMI scores that are quite a bit below the VCI and PRI scores.

 

I think this score pattern indicates that something is going on that bears looking into.

[Guest Yorkiegurl]

She LOVES puzzles! She can put together a 500 piece puzzle...by herself...in a few hours. She has a rubiks cube and can get two sides (any two colors you choose) solid in a matter of minutes. I don't know how she does it. I've tried to watch her but I don't see a pattern. She never does it the same way twice. She reads 3rd and 4th grade chapter books and will be starting second grade in the fall.

 

She also took the Woodcock-Johnson-III. This test revealed that her “Reading Standard Score” is within the superior range. Her Math Calculation Standard Score” is within the high average to superior range. Her “Broad Math Standard Score” is within the high average to superior range. She does seem very advanced in most areas. It like her mind never stops!!

 

I don't have her raw scores...they weren't included in the report. I think more testing is in order and will be discussing it with her dr. tomorrow!

 

I appreciate your input!!

Edited August 11, 2010 by Yorkiegurl

[EKS]

She LOVES puzzles! She can put together a 500 piece puzzle...by herself...in a few hours. She has a rubiks cube and can get two sides (any two colors you choose) solid in a matter of minutes. I don't know how she does it. I've tried to watch her but I don't see a pattern. She never does it the same way twice. She reads 3rd and 4th grade chapter books and will be starting second grade in the fall.

 

She also took the Woodcock-Johnson-III. This test revealed that her “Reading Standard Score†is within the superior range. Her Math Calculation Standard Score†is within the high average to superior range. Her “Broad Math Standard Score†is within the high average to superior range. She does seem very advanced in most areas. It like her mind never stops!!

 

I don't have her raw scores...they weren't included in the report. I think more testing is in order and will be discussing it with her dr. tomorrow!

 

I appreciate your input!!

 

Then there's definitely something funky about those WISC scores. The person who administered the test should have caught that. I would also be questioning the ADHD diagnosis. It could be that the high energy is part of the gifted thing.

 

I hope you get some answers soon!

[Ottakee]

I can't help with the scores but if the ADHD meds make a huge positive difference for her then likely she does have ADHD. If she didn't, the meds likely wouldn't make a huge difference, a small one possibly but not a huge one.

 

Can you look at a long acting med so that she doesn't have the ups and downs?

 

If she is super moody, ADHD to the max, has over the top reactions to "normal" things, etc. then you could possibly be looking at more of a mania from early onset bipolar. My daughter was ADHD to the MAX but most of it was her bipolar with only a little big ADHD. Usually though these kids have a hard time with ADHD meds unless they are on a mood stabilizer first.

[Georgia On My Mind]

I agree that the Processing Speed scores are not the usual for an ADHD/ADD diagnosis. Both the Coding and Symbol Search subtests require both focus and concentration. Both of these characteristics or the lack of these help define ADHD/ADD.

 

I would call the testing pscyhologist and ask them to send you the test protocols for the new psychologist or to send them over to him and he can check to see if an error was made in entering the raw scores into the program. The scores are not typical for an ADHD/ADD diagnosis. Let us know.

 

I evaluate WISC IV and other scores along with the WJ III tests I administer to develop a prescriptive therapay program for my therapy students. Often students with LD also have ADHD/ADD as well so I am familiar with the profile for ADHD on the WISC IV.

 

Carolyn

[amys]

Unusual, yes, but not inconceivable. People with ADHD can hyperfocus on activities of interest to them. If puzzles are high-interest for her, she might well hyperfocus on symbol search and coding, and perform quite well, despite attentional and behavioral difficulties.

 

The psychologist certainly should not send the protocols to mom because of standards related to the release of test items. They should only be released to a person who is trained in the administration and interpretation of the WISC.

Edited August 17, 2010 by amys
oops...meant symbol search, not mazes!

[EKS]

The psychologist certainly should not send the protocols to mom because of standards related to the release of test items. They should only be released to a person who is trained in the administration and interpretation of the WISC.

 

However, the raw scores should be sent to mom.

 

I actually caught a huge scoring error a psychologist made when testing my older son. She ushered me into her office after testing him and told me in an awed tone how incredibly profoundly gifted he was. I was in shock, because, though I knew he was bright, I didn't think he was *that* bright. So I asked her for the raw scores, so I could see about extended scoring (he had a slew of 19s). When I looked on the extended scoring tables, his raw scores weren't there. It turns out that she had been looking at the wrong age tables when scoring the test. His score went down to what I thought it should be.