Lice--would you be upset?

[Harriet Vane]

Hi folks,

 

Just trying to gauge an emotionally volatile situation.

 

A friend of mine (Friend A) discovered last Thursday that her child had lice. Further investigation showed that two kids had lice, but two kids and two parents do not (family of six). They started treating that very night. In the time since the discovery they have done the following:

 

--Three forms of topical treatment over five nights, including nightly head checks of the entire family and obviously removing eggs and nits each night.

 

--The standard thorough cleaning of the house.

 

When Friend A checked everyone's heads last night, everyone was clear. (For what it's worth, I have no doubt that Friend A has been thorough with the cleaning, checking, and treating.) Friend A did disclose all this to me when she brought her child to my house this morning for a small group class. I questioned her as to how long it's been and how they've addressed it and felt satisfied. I allowed the child in question to participate.

 

When I was a kid, my family dealt with lice on two different occasions, once when I was in 5th grade, and once when I was 17yo. On both occasions we did the work all weekend, then it was school as usual on Monday.

 

Friend B learned about the lice problem last Friday. She was concerned about exposure (the two girls were together on Thursday) and cleaned her house over the weekend and has been doing nightly head checks. Her child's head is clear.

 

Friend B is upset that Friend A's child came to class this morning and felt she should have been quarantined longer. She feels that five nights of treatments is not enough to say whether or not they're clear. I've mostly stayed out of this, but have a stake in it because I am again hosting a class on Thursday morning, and then again next Tuesday and Thursday.

 

What says the Hive?

Edited August 10, 2010 by strider

[Parrothead]

I think Friend B may be over reacting a bit.

[EarleneW]

:iagree:

I think Friend B may be over reacting a bit.

[Renee in NC]

Standard quarantine in NC for daycare was 24 hours. Five days is more than enough.

[Daisy]

In our public school district, children are allowed ONE day's absence for lice. That is IT. While I think in some situations that isn't enough time, I do think your friend is over-reacting.

[teamturner]

Hi folks,

 

 

When Friend A checked everyone's heads last night, everyone was clear. (For what it's worth, I have no doubt that Friend A has been thorough with the cleaning, checking, and treating.)

 

 

 

I would be a bit nervous if my dc were around these kids, but if everyone is clear then there's no reason to keep them out. It sounds like friend A was super diligent and the lice are gone.

[hornblower]

I think Friend B is over reacting.

 

Around here, even kids who are currently undergoing treatment go to school. There is no requirement to quarantine though some people choose to.

 

Friend A sounds like a diligent & careful person who has taken all reasonable steps.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I agree that friend B is overreacting.

[Rivka]

Friend B should tell her kids not to use other kids' pillows, hats, or combs. Then she should take a deep breath and relax.

[Sahamamama]

It's hard to say what Friend B's circumstances are -- everyone's tolerance or ability to handle these sorts of situations is different.

 

I remember years ago, when I was single and lived in an apartment over top of a family, there were several times when I was visited by the little children from downstairs. I remember saying to them, "Do you have off from school today? I didn't know the schools were closed today." And they'd reply, "Oh, no, we're home BECAUSE WE HAVE LICE." The other version was "because we have strep throat." :glare: Thanks for sharing.

 

Inevitably, a few days later, I'd get strep throat. In fact, because I got it recurrently, I had long-term health problems from it. But I never did get lice, even though I helped the mother shampoo and de-nit and wash laundry and coats and on and on and on. Numerous times, in fact. I never did get lice. I also gave all the children haircuts, to help with the process (in their apartment, not mine). Never did get lice. But I got strep a lot from that family, and I did think it was so rude of them to send their children up to visit, knowing full well that they were contagious. We were a close-knit little complex, so I just let it slide.

 

One of the other neighbors in the complex did, and she could not figure out how to be "nice" to the children afterward, yet not go through that again. It was somewhat traumatic for HER, but it was all in the normal course of things for the originating family. In the end, when the family moved, the local school "miraculously" didn't have a chronic lice problem. BUT the new school where the family moved suddenly had a "mysterious" lice infestation.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Sahamamama

[Laurie4b]

I think what I would do is contact your local health dept. for their recommendations as to quarantine, etc. and pass those along to Friend B. That takes all the middlemen out of the equation. If she wants to be mad when someone followed the guidelines, that's her issue.

[Aubrey]

Does Friend B have the info you have, though? I think it sounds like Friend A has done enough, but if I were Friend B, I might have liked to have had a heads up, so I could decide my kids' exposure for myself. Iow, it sounds like it was fine for Friend A to be there, but Friend B could have had the option to politely decline a meeting if she'd known ahead of time.

 

We had a lice exposure at church this summer that was *not* handled well by mom or church, & a friend of mine was expecting baby #5 w/in a week or so of the exposure. She had WAY more motivation not to have her dc exposed to lice than the rest of us! If proper notification had been given, her dc would not have been exposed at all.

[Daisy]

I'm a worry-wart. I can see being worried (because, hey, I'll worry about anything) but I wouldn't be angry and make a stink.

[smrtmama]

I'm a worry-wart. I can see being worried (because, hey, I'll worry about anything) but I wouldn't be angry and make a stink.

 

Yeah. I'd worry (I mean, I'm scratching my head just READING this) but I would read up on standard quarantine and just deal with my worry.

[abbeyej]

Perhaps Friend B would like to wash her child's hair in tea tree shampoo, braid her hair, and tie a scarf over her head while at class? Then she can take her child home, wash her hair again, and blow-dry thoroughly.

 

Friend A has done everything reasonable to prevent the spread of lice. It's up to Friend B at this point to take any further precautions to protect her own kids. Gracious.

[Perry]

American Academy of Pediatrics policy statement:

 

 

 

No healthy child should be excluded from or allowed to miss school time because of head lice. No-nit policies for return to school should be abandoned.

[RamonaQ]

You know, if it is just a regular class, I honestly don't see how the lice could even travel from head to head, unless you are teaching wrestling or it is a class that involves hair styling and sharing combs. Lice don't "jump", they would need direct contact to migrate.

[Bee]

they feel that a child would be more disadvantaged by missing school due to lice than that the spread of it could be a potential problem. Remember how the rules on the flu changed when it looked like so many students would miss many days of school and parents complained about missing work to stay home with their children? I don't care what their recommendations are; if my child comes home from school with lice she won't be going back to that school ever if the school follows those recommendations. The school my dh's niece went to as a child had a chronic problem with lice because of 2 particular families who would not treat it properly. It sounds like the family in the OPs post did do the right thing in responding to an unfortunate situation but I worry that other people won't take it seriously if they follow the American Academy of Pediatric's recomendation.

[Harriet Vane]

Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate your input.

[Amy loves Bud]

She's not being reasonable. Even if friend A missed an egg or two (which is easy to do), if she is as diligent as you say she certainly got rid of any adults. Nothing to spread. I would just continue to ask friend A for several weeks if she is still checking and everyone is clear.

[Perry]

By the time the kid is diagnosed, they've had lice -on average- for a month. Sending them home at that point isn't going to do much good.

 

Lice are a big nuisance, but they really don't pose much of a health problem. Overreaction, leading to over-treatment and unnecessary treatment with toxic shampoos can cause health problems.

 

I like this school nurse's information:

 

Head Lice --from a scientific viewpoint

 

Gerri Harvey, a school nurse in NH, has her own web page, Sch Nurse Perspectives, accessible from our link page. She sends teachers the following handout: The following points come from a publication by an entomologist, John F. Burger, from the University of New Hampshire on "Head Lice". Some significant points in his document are:

 

• One of the worst "problems" of head lice is adult attitudes.
  
• Head lice is not a serious medical condition.
  
• Over treatment with lice treatment shampoos is more serious than the head lice.
  
• "Irrational" reactions to head lice can lead to fumigating classrooms, schools, buses, etc ..... this is expensive and unnecessary.
  
• Much "information" about head lice is based on old, unproven information generated more than 80 years ago, some of it propagated by the companies who profit from the sale of lice shampoos and sprays.
  
• Direct physical head to head contact is the usual method of transmission.
  
• Transmission via clothing, hats, furniture, carpets, school bus seats and other objects is not likely because of the biology of head lice.
  
• Lice are fragile, and the chances of being passed on hats and combs is unlikely.
  
• Carpets, furniture and pets are not sources of infestation.
  
• There is no significant relationship between hair length and transmission.
  
• It is unlikely that a nit on a stray hair shaft will hatch because the only optimal conditions exist on the human head.
  
• Stray lice that fall off a head are either injured or dying and incapable of causing a new infestation.
  
• In time, inbreeding of lice on a person's head causes them to die spontaneously, that's why kids do not become covered with them. It is a self-limiting condition.
  
• It is possible to tell whether treatment has been successful by the appearance of the eggs.
  
• Considering the average case of head lice is 3-4 months old before it is detectable, a strict no-nit policy is not necessary or effective and only deprives children of educational
  
• Although schools, day care centers, etc. are often blamed for head lice outbreaks, it is the family unit that maintains cases leading to outbreaks in schools.
  

 

 

[Harriet Vane]

By the time the kid is diagnosed, they've had lice -on average- for a month. Sending them home at that point isn't going to do much good.

 

Lice are a big nuisance, but they really don't pose much of a health problem. Overreaction, leading to over-treatment and unnecessary treatment with toxic shampoos can cause health problems.

 

I like this school nurse's information:

 

Thank you! Your link and information is helpful.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Hi folks,

 

Just trying to gauge an emotionally volatile situation.

 

A friend of mine (Friend A) discovered last Thursday that her child had lice. Further investigation showed that two kids had lice, but two kids and two parents do not (family of six). They started treating that very night. In the time since the discovery they have done the following:

 

--Three forms of topical treatment over five nights, including nightly head checks of the entire family and obviously removing eggs and nits each night.

 

--The standard thorough cleaning of the house.

 

When Friend A checked everyone's heads last night, everyone was clear. (For what it's worth, I have no doubt that Friend A has been thorough with the cleaning, checking, and treating.) Friend A did disclose all this to me when she brought her child to my house this morning for a small group class. I questioned her as to how long it's been and how they've addressed it and felt satisfied. I allowed the child in question to participate.

 

When I was a kid, my family dealt with lice on two different occasions, once when I was in 5th grade, and once when I was 17yo. On both occasions we did the work all weekend, then it was school as usual on Monday.

 

Friend B learned about the lice problem last Friday. She was concerned about exposure (the two girls were together on Thursday) and cleaned her house over the weekend and has been doing nightly head checks. Her child's head is clear.

 

Friend B is upset that Friend A's child came to class this morning and felt she should have been quarantined longer. She feels that five nights of treatments is not enough to say whether or not they're clear. I've mostly stayed out of this, but have a stake in it because I am again hosting a class on Thursday morning, and then again next Tuesday and Thursday.

 

What says the Hive?

 

I watched a babysitting coop almost fall apart over lice. Specifically over lack of communication regarding lice. One family with several kids was having issues over a couple weeks. But they were sending out their kids for sits and having sits at their house without letting the other families know. When the other families found out, after the potential exposure, they were angry because they hadn't been given the option of making an informed choice.

 

In the OP situation, I think that Family A should have first talked to the host of the class and explained the situation and gotten her blessing to come.

Then Family A should have detailed that same information in an email that they sent to the host to forward to all of the other families. Then the other families could decide to come to class or skip.

 

It shouldn't be up to Family B to exclude Family A. But Family B also should have the option to pass on class for a week.

[phathui5]

I'm with Friend B. If you just got clear-headed yesterday, I don't want you near my kids today. Give it a couple days to make sure there are no eggs hiding anywhere.

 

We were given lice a couple of years ago by a "friend" who took her kids to a friend's house where they knew the kids had lice. Then she came to our house and ta-da! We had lice next. With the boys, I shaved their heads, but with dd, it took a lot of work to get her de-loused.

Edited August 11, 2010 by phathui5

[Sahamamama]

they feel that a child would be more disadvantaged by missing school due to lice than that the spread of it could be a potential problem. Remember how the rules on the flu changed when it looked like so many students would miss many days of school and parents complained about missing work to stay home with their children? I don't care what their recommendations are; if my child comes home from school with lice she won't be going back to that school ever if the school follows those recommendations. The school my dh's niece went to as a child had a chronic problem with lice because of 2 particular families who would not treat it properly. It sounds like the family in the OPs post did do the right thing in responding to an unfortunate situation but I worry that other people won't take it seriously if they follow the American Academy of Pediatric's recomendation.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Tidbits of Learning]

I'm just going to be honest. I would not feel comfortable with 1 clear day as being proof the lice was gone. One of my dd's got lice a few years ago and it was so awful getting it out with long hair and trying to keep the rest of us from not getting it. I did get it and I never had it as a child. All it takes is one exposure and you are dealing with the mess.

It was a pain and I braided my girls hair for years after that before they went off. It was awful. I agree with friend b. The option should have been given to skip the class. Everyone in the class should have had the information going in and could choose whether to risk exposure.

[bettyandbob]

I think friend B is over reacting.

 

1. Friend A treated for lice several days, before going to the class

 

2. lice are a nuisance, not a threat to health, like strep throat or flu

 

3. a typical class is not a situation that leads to the spread of lice

 

My neighbor's family has had several out breaks of lice. These outbreaks have been separated by a couple of years, so I don't think they are just incomplete treatments of a previous out break. When our boys were close friends, we never got it. The boys are in high school now, they were little and more likely to spread things when they played together. One time I did a precautionary treatment after one other their outbreaks. I did the nonchemical mayonaise treatement. I figured since I didn't know for sure I wasn't going to throw those chemicals on my kids' heads. Neighbor used that treatment successfully one time too. She went to using chemical treatments because they are faster.

 

In my neighbor's defense, I think some people attract these things more than others and it's not about being dirty always. My neighbor also gets bitten by a lot more outdoor bugs than I do at a typical neighborhood cookout.

[Mommyof4ks]

Personally I am more concerned about lice that I don't know about than those that I do. When I know someone has had lice I can remind the kids not to share pillows, combs, hats, clothes, and so on, but it is the weeks leading up to the lice discovery that cause the problem. I am not diligent about reminding them to take precautions unless I know of a problem. It is my fault, but no less annoying lol.