Math for kids with dyslexia

[LizzyBee]

If you have a dyslexic student, will you let me know what you've used for math? What worked and what didn't work?

 

I am trying to decide what to use for my 9 yo this year.

 

Thanks!

[fenni]

:lurk5:

[siloam]

If you have a dyslexic student, will you let me know what you've used for math? What worked and what didn't work?

 

I am trying to decide what to use for my 9 yo this year.

 

Thanks!

 

Right Start was a life savor for us. The girls didn't like Miquon, because they wanted to be told directly what to do not discover it. Singapore quasi worked. I had to sit and walk them through new concepts, sometimes for up to a month before they would feel comfortable doing it on their own. Then they did fine, but hated it. With RS things clicked. Their fluency in math went up considerably and they could do Singapore independently after doing RS. I just can't start Singapore till 2nd grade so they are introduced to topics in RS first.

 

Heather

[cathmom]

Saxon did not work. MUS is working.

[LizzyBee]

Right Start was a life savor for us. The girls didn't like Miquon, because they wanted to be told directly what to do not discover it. Singapore quasi worked. I had to sit and walk them through new concepts, sometimes for up to a month before they would feel comfortable doing it on their own. Then they did fine, but hated it. With RS things clicked. Their fluency in math went up considerably and they could do Singapore independently after doing RS. I just can't start Singapore till 2nd grade so they are introduced to topics in RS first.

 

Heather

 

I have resisted Right Start because it is teacher intensive. But hey, when you're teaching a dyslexic student, everything is teacher intensive whether it's designed that way or not. I think my dd is gifted in math, but she is not progressing the way I think she's capable of because the language issues are holding her back. Her dyslexia is broader than an inability to decode; she also has receptive and expressive language deficits, so it takes a ton of repetition and practice for her to catch on to the abstract aspects of math. But if the concept is expressed in a more concrete way, she gets it right away. I'm starting to think that RS will fit her better than Singapore.

 

I just printed the worksheet that explains what is needed to start RS in the middle and I'm looking at $267 (plus tax and shipping if applicable). That's a hard pill to swallow when we own all of the Singapore levels through NEM 2. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to help her succeed, but UGH.... (ETA: There is a discount if I buy the whole shebang. Yay!)

Edited August 10, 2010 by LizzyBee

[LizzyBee]

Saxon did not work. MUS is working.

 

I'm thinking about MUS. Thanks for responding.

[HeidiD]

If you have a dyslexic student, will you let me know what you've used for math? What worked and what didn't work?

 

I am trying to decide what to use for my 9 yo this year.

 

Thanks!

 

Educator's Publishing Service (epsbooks.com)

-It's Elementary (word problems)

-Computation Basics

-Building Mathematical Thinking Skills

 

Also DK - Math Made Easy

 

He's 11 now and working through the "Keys to...." series. So far so good. :)

 

We tried Right Start, and for him it was a bomb. Probably due to visual processing and sequencing issues, he really had a hard time with the abacus (his answer might be off by a bead or two, which led to mega frustration). Also stuff in the program like "Why's the sky so blue - seven is five and two", seemed to add another layer of info to process that actually detracted from

his focus on the math.

 

I actually find it easier not to follow a "program" - he makes faster progress that way. So I might give him problems from Saxon without following the complete course (like the other poster, I don't like Saxon for my dyslexic child). I might have him try Math U See since we have it anyway, but probably wouldn't use it exclusively.

 

Each child is different though, so what works for one won't necessarily be the best choice for another. Sometimes it takes a lot of trial and error. :tongue_smilie:

[RamonaQ]

I was going to say Singapore, but I see that didn't work out so well. Interestingly, I asked ds this year (we have done Singapore and Calvert math). He chose Calvert-- I think he really likes that each lesson follows a similar format. Math is his strong suit (as long as he has a multiplication grid nearby!)

[Paintedlady]

We've used MUS from the beginning but we're taking a year long (maybe 2?) break from it to use Right Start. And I love them both! MUS for it simplicity and video instruction and RS because it forces us to look at things differently.

[Paintedlady]

sorry, double post

[LizzyBee]

Educator's Publishing Service (epsbooks.com)

-It's Elementary (word problems)

-Computation Basics

-Building Mathematical Thinking Skills

 

Also DK - Math Made Easy

 

He's 11 now and working through the "Keys to...." series. So far so good. :)

 

We tried Right Start, and for him it was a bomb. Probably due to visual processing and sequencing issues, he really had a hard time with the abacus (his answer might be off by a bead or two, which led to mega frustration). Also stuff in the program like "Why's the sky so blue - seven is five and two", seemed to add another layer of info to process that actually detracted from

his focus on the math.

 

I actually find it easier not to follow a "program" - he makes faster progress that way. So I might give him problems from Saxon without following the complete course (like the other poster, I don't like Saxon for my dyslexic child). I might have him try Math U See since we have it anyway, but probably wouldn't use it exclusively.

 

Each child is different though, so what works for one won't necessarily be the best choice for another. Sometimes it takes a lot of trial and error. :tongue_smilie:

 

I will look into those EPS books. I like their Ridgewood Grammar workbooks for my LD kids.

 

"Why's the sky so blue - seven is five and two" Does RS have a lot of this type of thing? That would drive me absolutely bonkers. Cathy Duffy's review of RS says there is an emphasis on laying a mathematical strong foundation similar to Singapore, but using non-mathematical explanations and jingles detracts from a correct understanding of math concepts. The RS website also says there is an emphasis on not counting to add and subtract, but I'd much rather my kids count than memorize a jingle unless the jingle includes mathematical information. That is just so much worse than counting. Can you tell I feel strongly on this issue? :tongue_smilie:

[LizzyBee]

I was going to say Singapore, but I see that didn't work out so well. Interestingly, I asked ds this year (we have done Singapore and Calvert math). He chose Calvert-- I think he really likes that each lesson follows a similar format. Math is his strong suit (as long as he has a multiplication grid nearby!)

 

DD actually likes Singapore (and MEP). But I feel like there might be something out there more suited to a dyslexic student that would help her grasp the concepts easier and therefore progress faster.

 

I have a 4th grade Calvert math book that I've been trying to sell. Maybe I'll hold onto it in case we decide to try it next year.

[LizzyBee]

We've used MUS from the beginning but we're taking a year long (maybe 2?) break from it to use Right Start. And I love them both! MUS for it simplicity and video instruction and RS because it forces us to look at things differently.

 

Thanks. I hear MUS recommended often for dyslexic students, but my dds were unimpressed by the sample video. Ugh, I hate making these decisions.

[Renee in NC]

MUS worked well, but he didn't want to do another year. He likes the mastery concept, but not the same thing all year. He asked *not* to do Delta after Gamma.

 

Rod and Staff is working and tolerated more than anything else has been.

 

The Kumon workbooks have worked well with my younger ones and the older one. The daily repetition is good and the fact that each book is done within a month or two makes it seem less overwhelming.

[LizzyBee]

MUS worked well, but he didn't want to do another year. He likes the mastery concept, but not the same thing all year. He asked *not* to do Delta after Gamma.

 

Rod and Staff is working and tolerated more than anything else has been.

 

The Kumon workbooks have worked well with my younger ones and the older one. The daily repetition is good and the fact that each book is done within a month or two makes it seem less overwhelming.

 

I have a Rod & Staff 3rd grade book that I thought about trying with her. I just wish the book had more white space for writing answers. With her dyslexia/dysgraphia, there's no way I would make her copy all the problems, which means I'd end up doing it. :tongue_smilie:

 

She's doing a Kumon workbook for telling time and really likes it.

[Cynful]

I will look into those EPS books. I like their Ridgewood Grammar workbooks for my LD kids.

 

"Why's the sky so blue - seven is five and two" Does RS have a lot of this type of thing? That would drive me absolutely bonkers. Cathy Duffy's review of RS says there is an emphasis on laying a mathematical strong foundation similar to Singapore, but using non-mathematical explanations and jingles detracts from a correct understanding of math concepts. The RS website also says there is an emphasis on not counting to add and subtract, but I'd much rather my kids count than memorize a jingle unless the jingle includes mathematical information. That is just so much worse than counting. Can you tell I feel strongly on this issue? :tongue_smilie:

 

Especially since you are starting in the middle, there isn't much of this at all. My dyslexic is doing really well with RightStart - slow, but well. We had tried Saxon and though I thought it would be good, it was too much copying and too many problems. We tried MUS but my son couldn't visualize the bars they use at all. I tried Singapore alone but it wasn't concrete enough. So we moved to RS - the abacus is what sealed the deal - its much better for my son. We don't do many of the games at all either - he's not a game person - but just the way RS teaches enough. It is teacher intensive but its not bad - our lessons take about 20-25 minutes including him doing his problems. This is at the end of Level C.

 

So all that to say, there aren't any jingles or things like that to memorize or use to get you through RS.

 

Hope that helps,

[LizzyBee]

Especially since you are starting in the middle, there isn't much of this at all. My dyslexic is doing really well with RightStart - slow, but well. We had tried Saxon and though I thought it would be good, it was too much copying and too many problems. We tried MUS but my son couldn't visualize the bars they use at all. I tried Singapore alone but it wasn't concrete enough. So we moved to RS - the abacus is what sealed the deal - its much better for my son. We don't do many of the games at all either - he's not a game person - but just the way RS teaches enough. It is teacher intensive but its not bad - our lessons take about 20-25 minutes including him doing his problems. This is at the end of Level C.

 

So all that to say, there aren't any jingles or things like that to memorize or use to get you through RS.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Thank you. RS does sound promising. My dd LOVES games, so that's another reason RS sounds appealing for her. Alternatively, I could get the abacus, worksheets, and games to use alongside Singapore. But I think it will be easier to just pick one curriculum and do it the way it's written.

[Cynful]

Thank you. RS does sound promising. My dd LOVES games, so that's another reason RS sounds appealing for her. Alternatively, I could get the abacus, worksheets, and games to use alongside Singapore. But I think it will be easier to just pick one curriculum and do it the way it's written.

 

I think using the abacus and games alongside Singapore would work too - or maybe as a test to see how it goes over. We use both RS and Singapore IPs and CWP, but we use Singapore behind where we are in RS.

[cathmom]

That line "Why's the sky so blue/Seven is five and two" is from a song that you can very easily omit with no problems at all. I use RS for my younger children and I love it.

[Jen in DE]

We used SRA Explorations and Applications (older version - now SRA Real Math). I have used both the older and the newer versions and they are the same with the exception of the pictures and overall flashiness of the book. I read about it on Mathematically Correct. We tried MUS, but it moved too fast conceptually for her. Saxon was boring and wordy. My kiddo is extremely gifted in math (right now she's in 6th grade and finishing up pre-algebra and heading into algebra probably mid-year). It is a textbook, but written with lots of games to play and repetition needed. It also has lots of checkpoints to keep skills fresh. I practically cried when we finished 6th grade because it was such a great program. I loved that it took me no prep time. I loved the Thinking Stories (I read these aloud because, hey, this is math, not reading practice time). I loved the games. I loved the practice - not too much and not too little. *Sniff* Pre-Algebra has been a nightmare. Now we've been casting about trying to figure out algebra.

Jen

[LizzyBee]

Thank you for all the responses! After spending an inordinate amount of time on the RS website and reading reviews on other websites as well as here, I took the plunge and ordered it. Knowing how my dd learns, I think it will be a good fit.

[Renee in NC]

I have a Rod & Staff 3rd grade book that I thought about trying with her. I just wish the book had more white space for writing answers. With her dyslexia/dysgraphia, there's no way I would make her copy all the problems, which means I'd end up doing it. :tongue_smilie:

 

She's doing a Kumon workbook for telling time and really likes it.

 

My 12yo is dysgraphic as well, but he has come a long way. I have him write the problems on graph paper, which makes all the difference. When he was 9, he couldn't have done it either. My 9yo is in R & S 1 (and he is less dysgraphic believe it or not!) We'll have to see when we get to 3 - I may have to copy the problems for him.

 

Glad you found something you think will work!

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Tokyomarie]

Up to grade 4, BJU uses write in workbooks, and there are optional workbooks for grades 5 and 6. This puts off the need to copy from a textbook, at least for a little while.

 

My son is strong conceptually in math but highly dysgraphic. The workbooks are what made Singapore a good fit for us until about the middle of 5th grade when multi-step problems required more writing & imposed a heavier sequential thinking load on my ds. We did some problems from the main text orally, and used the workbooks as our primary problem set material.

 

Once we got to multi-step problems nothing really worked for awhile. I had thought maybe ALEKS could be a good fit, and it wasn't too bad for a while from the second half of 5th grade into Algebra 1. I sat with him and taught concepts as they came up. This allowed him to do fewer problems on a concept if he got it and if he didn't get it the concept came back around. But we just couldn't get past the sequential, multi-step problems. And his writing on a regular piece of paper stunk- he couldn't get the idea of starting on the top left of the paper and working down the left side. He would use the paper like scratch paper & his problems were all over the place.

 

Introducing graph paper when he studied Geometry this year from a regular text made a huge difference. It's not even that he keeps his calculations in the blocks- because we have paper with the smaller blocks that are too small to line up the numbers for calculating. But for some reason, it helps hime stay more visually organized. His sequential thinking is finally maturing to the point where he is finally beginning to handle multi-step problems in a more organized fashion. I am actually having him review Algebra I before moving on to Algebra II just so he can get the hang of writing out the steps to his problems.

[Guest CalvertSchool]

Hey all,

 

Just thought I mentioned that Verticy Learning has developed a math curriculum that meets the needs of dyslexic students. Right now we support Grades 3-8, however we are planning on expanding that soon. We also offer a free placement evaluation which will determine which level is best for your student.

 

Verticy’s Math course is based on Calvert School’s award-winning Math curriculum. The addition of the Verticy Math Companion makes math instruction more dynamic and accessible to your child. The placement team will advise you on the math course that would be best for your child. The Verticy Curriculum Development Specialists, all former classroom teachers, work on your behalf to find the finest material for your child.

 

Here are some links to view interactive demos of Verticy Math:

 

 

 

• Third Grade Verticy Math
  
• Fourth Grade Verticy Math
  
• Fifth Grade Verticy Math
  
• Sixth Grade Verticy Math
  
• Seventh Grade Verticy Math
  
• Eighth Grade Verticy Math
  

 

 

Hope this helps!!

 

Jason

[AngieW in Texas]

Miquon didn't work for my dyslexic dd at all.

 

Singapore worked for my dd for several years. Levels 1A-2B worked well, but she hit a wall in 3A and we switched programs for about one year. Then she asked to go back to Singapore and that worked well for 4A-5A, but she hit a wall in 5B. We dropped Singapore entirely at that point.

 

We've been working through Key to Fractions, Decimals, and Percents for the past year and she's really sick of it. She finished Fractions and is almost done with Decimals and Percents.

 

I'm not sure what we're going to do for next year. I own Lial's BCM, but the layout of the book is far too cluttered for her. I'm thinking of getting MUS Prealgebra for her.

[LizzyBee]

Singapore worked for my dd for several years. Levels 1A-2B worked well, but she hit a wall in 3A and we switched programs for about one year. Then she asked to go back to Singapore and that worked well for 4A-5A, but she hit a wall in 5B. We dropped Singapore entirely at that point.

 

 

 

This is exactly what I find with my dyslexic kids. I love, love, love Singapore, but it gets too abstract too early for my two with dyslexia. Someone mentioned using Right Start, then SM behind it, so that's what I'm going to try. I'm not ready to ditch it yet. For my 14 yo, we used SM off and on, but we couldn't use it straight through.

[LizzyBee]

Hey all,

 

Just thought I mentioned that Verticy Learning has developed a math curriculum that meets the needs of dyslexic students. Right now we support Grades 3-8, however we are planning on expanding that soon. We also offer a free placement evaluation which will determine which level is best for your student.

 

Verticy’s Math course is based on Calvert School’s award-winning Math curriculum. The addition of the Verticy Math Companion makes math instruction more dynamic and accessible to your child. The placement team will advise you on the math course that would be best for your child. The Verticy Curriculum Development Specialists, all former classroom teachers, work on your behalf to find the finest material for your child.

 

Here are some links to view interactive demos of Verticy Math:

 

 

 

• Third Grade Verticy Math

• Fourth Grade Verticy Math

• Fifth Grade Verticy Math

• Sixth Grade Verticy Math

• Seventh Grade Verticy Math

• Eighth Grade Verticy Math

 

 

Hope this helps!!

 

Jason

 

Jason,

 

Can you give us more information regarding what Verticy adds to Calvert Math to make it more accessible to dyslexic students? Thanks.

[Krisci]

My seven-year-old is doing A Beka for math and doing wonderfully. She has used it since Kindergarten and generally scores over 90% on all math tests. I started homeschooling this year and am continuing with A Beka Math for her but she also does Time4Learning to really help get the concept. I was really skeptical on Time4Learning but I cannot say enough good things about it now. It truly is amazing if your child has Dyslexia. I am using it to reinforce other subjects as well (i.e. history, science and Language Arts).

[LizzyBee]

My seven-year-old is doing A Beka for math and doing wonderfully. She has used it since Kindergarten and generally scores over 90% on all math tests. I started homeschooling this year and am continuing with A Beka Math for her but she also does Time4Learning to really help get the concept. I was really skeptical on Time4Learning but I cannot say enough good things about it now. It truly is amazing if your child has Dyslexia. I am using it to reinforce other subjects as well (i.e. history, science and Language Arts).

 

We are using Time 4 Learning as a supplement right now and my dd likes it a lot.

[merry gardens]

... I love, love, love Singapore, but it gets too abstract too early for my two with dyslexia. ....

Did you know Singapore has manipulatives available to go along with their program?? I just learned that recently!

 

We use Singapore with supplemental material. I created my own manipulatives (using Legos and a variety of other materials we have around the house.) Now I discovered this summer that the Singapore Math's website sells manipulatives!!! I bought several of them because I think manipulatives are both fun and they aid in understanding concepts that otherwise might seem rather abstract.

http://www.singaporemath.com/Homeschool_Manipulatives_s/61.htm

 

I also supplemented with the book "Memorize in Minutes" to aid in memorizing the times tables. My son with dyslexia has a poor memory and I could see he was going to have trouble keeping up with Singapore unless he knew his times tables. We paused Singapore math for about a month whie we worked on memorizing the times tables, then we returned to using Singapore.

 

Probably because of both the dyslexia and the poor memory, it took him a very long time to learn to count, to learn place values (right to left), to learn which math signs stood for what operation, plus he made numerous reversals of numbers for several years. We just kept working on it, and I checked his math workbook for what his little dyslexic mind was trying to write. My son's doing very well in math now. I really like Singapore math and with a few supplements it has worked quite nicely for my son with dyslexia.

[LizzyBee]

Did you know Singapore has manipulatives available to go along with their program?? I just learned that recently!

 

We use Singapore with supplemental material. I created my own manipulatives (using Legos and a variety of other materials we have around the house.) Now I discovered this summer that the Singapore Math's website sells manipulatives!!! I bought several of them because I think manipulatives are both fun and they aid in understanding concepts that otherwise might seem rather abstract.

http://www.singaporemath.com/Homeschool_Manipulatives_s/61.htm

 

I also supplemented with the book "Memorize in Minutes" to aid in memorizing the times tables. My son with dyslexia has a poor memory and I could see he was going to have trouble keeping up with Singapore unless he knew his times tables. We paused Singapore math for about a month whie we worked on memorizing the times tables, then we returned to using Singapore.

 

Probably because of both the dyslexia and the poor memory, it took him a very long time to learn to count, to learn place values (right to left), to learn which math signs stood for what operation, plus he made numerous reversals of numbers for several years. We just kept working on it, and I checked his math workbook for what his little dyslexic mind was trying to write. My son's doing very well in math now. I really like Singapore math and with a few supplements it has worked quite nicely for my son with dyslexia.

 

I did know that, but I don't think I've bought any from the SM website. However, we have tons of math manipulatives and games that we've accumulated over the years. I'm hoping that RS actually teaches differently than SM, because we already use manipulatives a lot.

 

My dd was diagnosed with a pretty severe working memory deficit almost 2 years ago, but I think it's completely remediated. She is like a memorizing machine now, and she's the one we rely on to remember appts and things. However, she does have a hard time remembering which signs stand for which operations and that kind of thing. I always say it's the language of math and not math itself that is holding her back.

[meet me in paris]

Saxon did not work. MUS is working.

:iagree: We switched to MUS last year... so far so good.

[Guest CalvertSchool]

Jason,

 

Can you give us more information regarding what Verticy adds to Calvert Math to make it more accessible to dyslexic students? Thanks.

 

Hi LizzyBee,

 

Great question! The Verticy Learning curriculum includes:

 

 

• Additional reinforcement and practice of skills and concepts covered in the math curriculum

   

• Grids to help students organize each math problem

   

• Rhymes and graphics to help students remember the steps in problems, such as multi-digit multiplication

   

• Templates/reminder sheets of the steps needed to complete certain problems, such as division with remainders

 

 

In addition, Verticy incorporates multi-sensory activities and strategies, such as:

 

 

• Graphics/Pictures that assist students with making connections between directions and the steps in a problem. Ex. Factor fish, Bobsled teams and sleds that are used to reflect the sleds in LCM

   

• Multi-sensory activities for reinforcing skills, such as life size number lines where the student jumps on the line to demonstrate understanding of positive and negative integers

   

• Card games to reinforce vocabulary, practice skills and concepts

   

• Additional manipulatives and hands-on activities

   

• Exploration activities

 

 

Please let me know if you have any other questions!

 

Thanks,

Jason

[siloam]

Here Singapore makes too many logical jumps. My kids just didn't get it as explained. Though I didn't use the manipulatives per say. They were also doing Miquon, and had those available, but didn't use them.

 

I would end up sitting with them walking them through each problem till they grew comfortable with the process, and would be walking me through it. Eventually it would dawn on them they could get it done faster on their own, that they no longer needed me as a security blanket and then they would work independently, but sometimes that process would take up to a month.

 

Though I still think Singapore is a strong program.

 

Right Start teaches the little in-between things that RS assumes a child will get, which is what my kids needed. After doing RS they can do Singapore independently, without any help. The RS approach just "clicked" for them.

 

For example place value is address first thing, where in Singapore it isn't really addressed until about 3rd grade. There are things pointing to it, picture manipulatives but it isn't directly dealt with till later. My kids are so literal that they just didn't make the connections in Singapore. In fact they are so literal that I have to tell them they can assume that bundles of things in Singapore equal 10, because they were counting each bundle. Those are the little leaps they just don't make, or maybe afraid to make is the better word. They all got that the bundles equaled 10 to date, they just wanted to be told it was OK to assume they were 10 without counting because they were afraid it wouldn't be one time. The place value concept there was totally lost on them.

 

That isn't to say one couldn't use Singapore as a base program even with those issues. I just find RS easier for use.

 

Heather

[LizzyBee]

Right Start teaches the little in-between things that SM assumes a child will get, which is what my kids needed. After doing RS they can do Singapore independently, without any help. The RS approach just "clicked" for them.

 

 

I think that's the key - explicit, incremental teaching. Dyslexic kids need OG teaching methods for math, not just reading, but there's not really anything OG-based out there yet for math. As a result, I had to keep switching programs with my 14 yo to fill in gaps, which made her overall progress very slow. I hope RS will click for the 9 yo so we don't have to keep finding and filling in gaps. I think it helps that she's the 2nd dyslexic child and I have a better grasp on what she needs. I was totally winging it the first time through.

 

My RS order left Lexington, KY very early this morning. I hope that means I'll have it sometime tomorrow!!!!

[merry gardens]

I...My dd was diagnosed with a pretty severe working memory deficit almost 2 years ago, but I think it's completely remediated. She is like a memorizing machine now, and she's the one we rely on to remember appts and things. However, she does have a hard time remembering which signs stand for which operations and that kind of thing. I always say it's the language of math and not math itself that is holding her back.

Wow! I know memory is a different topic, but I'd love to learn sometime how you identified and remediated your daughter's memory problems. I did a search of your old posts and saw she had a SLP involved.

 

 

I know what you mean about the "language of math" being a problem for a child with dyslexia. It's beyond word problems, (but yes, there is lots of reading in Singapore math that I still have to do for my son when he works on his math workbook.) The problems of the "language of math" for dyslexia goes back to the misunderstanding and confusion of symbols.

 

I supplemented a multi-sensory approach into explaining those symbols. With my son, we used the "sky writing" and visual projecting an image onto the wall techniques found in reading programs for people with dyslexia like Bartons and Seeing Stars. I also used writing numbers and signs in cornmeal and building them in clay. I created some manipulatives like the place value manipulatives they sell on the Singapore website and others.

 

When I found math errors, I also checked to see if the problem was misunderstanding of the signs or inverting the place value or number, etc. If I caught a "dyslexic-like" problem with the symbols, we went over them again. And again. And again. I found it very natural to want to teach math to mastery. In reading and spelling, a single mistake like a typo with one wrong or missing letter may not change the entire meaning of what's written. But in math, such mistakes can change the results dramatically. When my son made a mistake in math, I took a closer look at why he made the mistake and worked to correct that.

 

While I understand what Heather wrote about "jumps in logic", but I don't think that's neccessarily a problem for all people with dyslexia. Math runs strong in our family. Despite dyslexia, (and the symbols and language problems associated with dyslexia,) my son and husband have a strong understanding of the underlying math concepts. Dh's a gifted engineer. My son shows some similar talents. We can easily understand and take the logic jumps found in Singapore. That is not unique to my family. One of the criterias used to diagnose dyslexia is when a person's struggles with reading doesn't match with his overall intelligence. My son was able to grasp bigger math concepts while still misunderstanding + vs. x, flipping around 6 and 9, and writing things like 12 for 21. Now that we remediated those things, my son tests very high on standardized tests in math.

[siloam]

While I understand what Heather wrote about "jumps in logic", but I don't think that's neccessarily a problem for all people with dyslexia. Math runs strong in our family. Despite dyslexia, (and the symbols and language problems associated with dyslexia,) my son and husband have a strong understanding of the underlying math concepts. Dh's a gifted engineer. My son shows some similar talents. We can easily understand and take the logic jumps found in Singapore. That is not unique to my family. One of the criterias used to diagnose dyslexia is when a person's struggles with reading doesn't match with his overall intelligence. My son was able to grasp bigger math concepts while still misunderstanding + vs. x, flipping around 6 and 9, and writing things like 12 for 21. Now that we remediated those things, my son tests very high on standardized tests in math.

 

I agree that not all dyslexic students have problems with the jump in logic. I think how literal they see the world is the main difference, and how visual they are can play a part. The ones who struggle here are concrete sequential learners. If I were to start over with my sequential abstract learner, knowing what I do now, I bet she would do fine in Singapore. Back then she just didn't want to use manipulatives and I didn't know enough about teaching and her learning style to make her. Once I got RS mid way through 3rd grade and made her use the manipulatives, it clicked. :glare: Live and learn.

 

Though the concrete runs on my side of the family. I am the one who when told to find the subject and predicate of a sentence would struggle because I never thought to first find what I could identify and eliminate those first. :001_huh: Nope I was told to find those first and so I was going to do as told even if I did it wrong. :rolleyes: I love math, but have figure out the abstract by doing it (concrete) first then I can move to the abstract. My dh on the other hand is also sequential abstract, he needed the why of math before he did it. If he knows why he has no problem connecting the dots. As an adult he is a self trained computer engineer who regularly has to count in multiple number systems (writes drivers that talk to the hardware), despite failing most his math classes in school because they didn't teach him why.

 

I would have done better in RS as a child and he could have jumped into Singapore with the manipulatives. I think that aspect is much more about perception, the way we take information in (concrete vs. abstract), than dyslexia.

 

Heather

[LizzyBee]

Wow! I know memory is a different topic, but I'd love to learn sometime how you identified and remediated your daughter's memory problems. I did a search of your old posts and saw she had a SLP involved.

 

I know what you mean about the "language of math" being a problem for a child with dyslexia. It's beyond word problems, (but yes, there is lots of reading in Singapore math that I still have to do for my son when he works on his math workbook.) The problems of the "language of math" for dyslexia goes back to the misunderstanding and confusion of symbols.

 

I supplemented a multi-sensory approach into explaining those symbols. With my son, we used the "sky writing" and visual projecting an image onto the wall techniques found in reading programs for people with dyslexia like Bartons and Seeing Stars. I also used writing numbers and signs in cornmeal and building them in clay. I created some manipulatives like the place value manipulatives they sell on the Singapore website and others.

 

When I found math errors, I also checked to see if the problem was misunderstanding of the signs or inverting the place value or number, etc. If I caught a "dyslexic-like" problem with the symbols, we went over them again. And again. And again. I found it very natural to want to teach math to mastery. In reading and spelling, a single mistake like a typo with one wrong or missing letter may not change the entire meaning of what's written. But in math, such mistakes can change the results dramatically. When my son made a mistake in math, I took a closer look at why he made the mistake and worked to correct that.

 

While I understand what Heather wrote about "jumps in logic", but I don't think that's neccessarily a problem for all people with dyslexia. Math runs strong in our family. Despite dyslexia, (and the symbols and language problems associated with dyslexia,) my son and husband have a strong understanding of the underlying math concepts. Dh's a gifted engineer. My son shows some similar talents. We can easily understand and take the logic jumps found in Singapore. That is not unique to my family. One of the criterias used to diagnose dyslexia is when a person's struggles with reading doesn't match with his overall intelligence. My son was able to grasp bigger math concepts while still misunderstanding + vs. x, flipping around 6 and 9, and writing things like 12 for 21. Now that we remediated those things, my son tests very high on standardized tests in math.

 

I don't know how/why her memory got so good! We used LiPS when she was 7, which Susan Barton told me would stretch and improve her auditory memory in addition to improving her phonemic awareness. We've done the Therapeutic Listening Program and Interactive Metronome as part of her OT and ST. Her SLP has her do things like repeat strings of numbers backwards. She memorized a ton of memory verses for church last year. The kids accumulate points for various things including memory work, and they can use the points in the Kidztown Store. She earned enough points to get several webkins, and that was very motivating. At first, we had to work all week for her to memorize one verse, but by the end of the year, she could memorize several verses in a week. We did some review because I want her to retain the verses she's learned, and she does seem to have pretty good retention; she's not doing a brain-dump as soon as she recites the verse and gets the points marked in her book.

 

It takes dd a long time and a lot of repetition to remember the symbols for math operations, probably because there's no logical connection of the symbol to the operation. She can make logical leaps when a problem is re-worded in a way that is completely concrete, but the symbols slow her down. Maybe I'm overly concerned about mastery of the language of math, but if so it's because of my experience. I always intuitively understood how to solve problems and I absolutely loved algebra. I thought that's how math was - you either get it or you don't. I think that because math came so easy for me and I never learned how to articulate why the algorithms work, I hit a wall pretty early in college math. I got an A in pre-calc, but never went on to calc because it wasn't required for my major and I was intimidated by the fact that pre-calc was actually hard. I want my kids to learn how to do the math and be able to articulate how and why so that maybe they won't hit that wall, or at least not as early as I did.

 

I think dd is actually very gifted in math and she LOVES math. She has some traits of a budding engineer. But I feel like I'm still looking for the key that will bring her achievement up to the level she's actually capable of. In addition to the language issues, schoolwork is really draining for her. She has ADHD and SPD in addition to dyslexia, and it's just hard for her to focus. She has come a long way, though. She used to just go floppy on me after 5 minutes of phonics or math, but now we can work for about 45 minutes at a stretch.

[cjshima]

My dyslexic daughter is entering 5th grade and will be starting Teaching Textbooks this year. I like the look of it - I think it will keep her interest (as opposed to just sitting and working from a textbook). She is doing well in math, but is still unable to learn her multiplication tables. If she has a multiplication chart in front of her, she can work at grade level easily.

[Geo]

When my youngest began his homeschool journey I never noticed signs of dyslexia. Maybe because none of my other children were dyslexic..and I'm not dyslexic (his father is). However, some of the reason was because reading was a cake-walk compared to his learning math, even though he is dyslexic. His inability to grasp numbers, quantities, and even simple counting was profoundly disturbing. I haven't even encountered any stories on the internet that compare to my son's. Seriously.

 

We worked intensively for over a year (18 months) to learn to count to 9....and recognize some of them in isolation. Think of the most severe dyslexic, and transfer that to numbers and quantities...and that's my boy. We spent a long, long time in Mathematics Their Way. I think that helped. But I needed help too. I didn't want to flounder around trying activities...I wanted something with lesson plans, a plan, a sequence. I didn't feel comfortable experimenting on my son...at his expense. It was just to critical for that.

 

I did find a math program written with dyslexics in mind (the struggling sort). It's from the UK...they seem to be more interested in dyscalculia there, which is greatly needed because research on dyscalculia is 20 years behind that of dyslexia. Anyway, it assumes no numerosity whatsoever ...and covers up to fractions and decimals. The program is called "Addacus". I finally was able to purchase just before summer. I intended to work with him through the summer..but, no go. It isn't as much expensive as the shipping costs...the shipping is horrendous (try $140 or so)! All told, I ended up spending around $480.00ppd. I found no other good alternative.

 

I used RS years ago...that assumes an intuitive understanding of quantities. Not happening. MUS moved way too fast (clock-work in Alpha!). There aren't enough variety of activities in any other program...when you consider that a child will be doing a simple concept for months...and months, possibly years. We did and still do, use the abacus, which he has used extensively...and still struggles with one-to-one correspondence. We used a numberline when counting in sequence. We've used it...ad nauseum...and he still can't answer, "what number comes after 6?" I made (and used) over 20 math activities from Mathematics Their Way... I desperately needed something NOT written for the "neuro-typical" child.

 

Anyway, I'm hoping I have found it with Addacus. It may not look that special to some folks, but much of what I have learned in the last 3 years..I can see implemented in the program. So...we will be starting with it in a week or two. I intend to post our experiences with it, here on the board. I don't think there are very many people on this board with children who have a severe math disability(from the very foundations), but will share anyway, if only for posterity's sake. If you're curious, here's a peek:

http://www.addacus.co.uk/

 

Just mentioning this for the sake of anyone in need,

Geo

Edited August 17, 2010 by Geo
errata...:)

[LizzyBee]

Anyway, I'm hoping I have found it with Addacus. It may not look that special to some folks, but much of what I have learned in the last 3 years..I can see implemented in the program. So...we will be starting with it in a week or two. I intend to post our experiences with it, here on the board. I don't think there are very many people on this board with children who have a severe math disability(from the very foundations), but will share anyway, if only for posterity's sake. If you're curious, here's a peek:

http://www.addacus.co.uk/

 

Just mentioning this for the sake of anyone in need,

Geo

 

You are right that the research on dyscalculia is lacking. Hopefully some day it will catch up to the dyslexia research and better math curriculum will become available. Have you seen On Cloud Nine from Lindamood Bell? If not, take a look at http://www.ganderpublishing.com. I don't know how it compares to Addacus, but I think it's probably one of the better options for dyscalculic kids. My dd isn't dyscalculic, but I'm sure someone will see your post and be helped by it.

 

Please post after you get the Addacus curriculum and let us know how it works out.

 

Your son is blessed to have you for his mom!

[Renee in NC]

When my youngest began his homeschool journey I never noticed signs of dyslexia. Maybe because none of my other children were dyslexic..and I'm not dyslexic (his father is). However, some of the reason was because reading was a cake-walk compared to his learning math, even though he is dyslexic. His inability to grasp numbers, quantities, and even simple counting was profoundly disturbing. I haven't even encountered any stories on the internet that compare to my son's. Seriously.

 

We worked intensively for over a year (18 months) to learn to count to 9....and recognize some of them in isolation. Think of the most severe dyslexic, and transfer that to numbers and quantities...and that's my boy. We spent a long, long time in Mathematics Their Way. I think that helped. But I needed help too. I didn't want to flounder around trying activities...I wanted something with lesson plans, a plan, a sequence. I didn't feel comfortable experimenting on my son...at his expense. It was just to critical for that.

 

 

I have a 9yo that was that way. He didn't learn to count to 10 until he was 8. There has been a PROFOUND jump in his math ability in the past year. A year ago he couldn't count to 10 consistently and he couldn't name numbers (it was a major word retrieval problem.) Last night, almost exactly a year later, he subracted 6 from 35 in his head as he was trying to account for missing waters in the case.;) Last year he couldn't name an 8, but a few weeks ago he read the number 75,000 on the side of the road. He still can't read fluently, but he is progressing and can read many things. I don't know if it is time, remediating the dyslexia, or something else.

 

In our case, being male and being dyslexic seems to go hand in hand in our family, so it was not a surprise. He is definitely the *worst* affected one, though.

[Geo]

I have a 9yo that was that way. He didn't learn to count to 10 until he was 8. There has been a PROFOUND jump in his math ability in the past year. A year ago he couldn't count to 10 consistently and he couldn't name numbers (it was a major word retrieval problem.) Last night, almost exactly a year later, he subracted 6 from 35 in his head as he was trying to account for missing waters in the case.;) Last year he couldn't name an 8, but a few weeks ago he read the number 75,000 on the side of the road. He still can't read fluently, but he is progressing and can read many things. I don't know if it is time, remediating the dyslexia, or something else.

 

Oh, I really pray that's the case with him. One other mom here cited a similar story to me last year. It would be welcome with great joy...and relief.

 

Thanks for sharing,

Geo

[LizzyBee]

Our Right Start curriculum arrived today and we are in LOVE!

 

I am such a nerd!!!

[merry gardens]

Our Right Start curriculum arrived today and we are in LOVE!

 

I am such a nerd!!!

That's great! I'm glad you like the math program you chose for your dd. It's so much fun when the boxes of homeschooling materials start arriving.

 

LOL. I must be a nerd too. I'm looking forward to playing with our new math manipulatives when they arrive. :lol:

[Homeschooling Hannah]

I have the same issues. Thanks for posting.

[kathkath]

Have you looked at Math a way of thinking?

[siloam]

Our Right Start curriculum arrived today and we are in LOVE!

 

I am such a nerd!!!

 

You and me both, on both counts. :D

 

Heather