How long would you take an iTouch away when sneaking/deceit were involved?

[Happy2BaMom]

Ds, headed toward 8, has recently (last two months) been using the iTouch for his "electronics time" (each child is allotted 45 - 60 minutes a day). Fine. He does not have the password to our account - although he would dearly love it - so I checked every game he downloaded.

 

The last few days or so I noticed that he was starting to try to sneak time on the iTouch every time my back was turned. For this he had consequences/discussions with his dad on the importance of honesty, trust, etc. - let's just say it was CLEAR what the expectations/standards were.

 

Yesterday, I caught him again, sent him to his room, and then locked up the iTouch for the rest of the day. I found him searching for it twice. During his allotted TV time, he asked for the iTouch and ended up playing it for another hour because he went outside with it and I lost track of time. I do not believe this was innocent on his part.

 

Then, last night, as I was getting ready for bed at 10:30, I noticed the iTouch was not being recharged, where I last left it. I went upstairs and woke ds up. He first claimed he didn't know where it was. Then he kind of grinned and pulled it out from under his pillow and handed it to me.

 

I simply looked at him and said, "there is so much that is so wrong with what you have done that I don't even know what to say. I will talk with your dad about the appropriate consequences and we will let you know tomorrow."

 

He has never done anything like this before. He obviously is becoming addicted to these games, which is why dh and I HATE video games and ban them (other than the Wii, which is a little different) from the house.

 

Dh and I have come up with a plan for handling this, involving having ds identify a list of wrongs he committed from our Biblical character training handout, having to come up with thoughts on the importance of honesty and give a report to his dad, and removal of the iTouch for a significant period of time. We are thinking of saying something like "we give you electronic games as we feel you can handle them, and as you demonstrate that you can handle them. You have shown that you cannot....blah blah blah" and then taking the iTouch away until the first of the year.

 

WWYD?

 

(P.S. Please - I'm not looking for "this is normal/he's just a boy" type responses. This involves deliberate deceit/sneaking/disrespect - serious transgressions around here.)

 

As always, thank you in advance!

[Moxie]

Until the first of the year is too long. I'd go with 2 weeks. And I know you don't want to hear this BUT he is only 7. I'd lighten up a bit. My son sneaks legos under his pillow--it really is normal.

[4kids4me]

Until the first of the year? Too much, imo. Give the talk about honestly, deceit, etc, give a consequence for a week or so, and then give it back to him and watch carefully. He needs to put into practice what you're teaching him and he won't be able to do it if you don't allow him access to the thing that's causing him to be deceitful. The next time he does it, I'd do the same thing...the talk, losing the iTouch for TWO weeks, then give it back and let him put into practice what you're teaching him. If it happens again, THREE weeks, etc.

 

Just a thought. Of course, pray about it and talk to dh!

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Oh, so familiar! Just a couple of weeks ago, dh's phone was missing, because the boys like to take it and play Brick Breaker on it. So, dh made them help him look for it. Foolish boy #1 was in the middle of playing his DS, and didn't put it down to help look. He was still poking the screen with the stylus after dh told him at least 5 times to put down the DS. DH confiscated the DS and told him he couldn't play with it for a month. Of course, many tears ensued. Later, dh said he may have overreacted and lowered it down to 10 days. Meanwhile, foolish boy #2, "found" dh's phone in the couch cushions, so now neither of them is allowed to ever touch the phone again, according to dh. We'll see how long that lasts.

[Mimm]

I would take it away for a couple weeks. That's long enough that he'll get the message that he really can live without it, and he'll be happy to get it back. And then when he gets it back, if he does one little thing that is dishonest or sneaky with regard to the iTouch, I would take it away for another week. If you have a lower tolerance for what you'll put up with, you don't need to have huge several month long punishments. :)

[Starr]

When my ds was 6 or 7 he just couldn't handle screen time. We cut back to 15 to 30 minutes a day all included. We don't have a TV and movies were extra if the family was watching something together. You have to see what works for each child. The sneaking and the obsession are two different issues. Hang in there.

[Happy2BaMom]

OK, so it sounds like banning the iTouch for the rest of my son's life is overkill. (kidding)

 

Perhaps it's just the shock of this being the first instance of him deliberately deceiving us.

 

It is true he has to learn how to handle it.

 

I'll probably change it to a two-week ban for the first offense. Removal of his thumbs for the second offense. (kidding again) :tongue_smilie:

[4kids4me]

OK, so it sounds like banning the iTouch for the rest of my son's life is overkill. (kidding)

 

Perhaps it's just the shock of this being the first instance of him deliberately deceiving us.

 

It is true he has to learn how to handle it.

 

I'll probably change it to a two-week ban for the first offense. Removal of his thumbs for the second offense. (kidding again) :tongue_smilie:

 

I really don't think the removal of thumbs would work...he's still got fingers!!! :lol:

[Haiku]

When my dd (now 16) abused her computer privileges, she lost them for 6 months.

 

Tara

[mysticamethyst]

Here he would have lost it for a day for each infraction as well as a fine of an 30 minuntes of house chores. So if he did this on 3 seperate occasions put up for day and 30 min of chores. 2nd time put up for 2 days and 1 hours of chores and so on. We spend a lot of time on games and computers in general but I will not tolerate deception to stay on them longer. Hope you get suggestions that help you out.

[Old Dominion Heather]

He is seven. Take it away for a few weeks then give him another trial. Let him know that the consequences will be longer if he abuses trust again.

 

I have three boys who would look at a screen all day long if I let them. Some things that have helped us are:

 

1. Repeating over and over again that people are more important than things. If you have a thing or toy that causes you to not treat other people well, then that is a toy that you don't need. People over things, every time. The behavior above would fall into that catagory for me. He is not able to handle having the iTouch without it having negative effects on how he is treating other people. Therefore, he loses it for a while. But we do let them keep trying again within a week or so. I want them to learn how to be able to handle those toys correctly, you know? They just lost the Wii for a few weeks for putting down their youngest brother while playing.

 

2. We don't have separate tv and computer and game time. They boys get a set amount of screen time. They choose how to use it. It isn't much, 30 minutes a day. They can save it up if they want to watch a movie, but it does require saving.

[LauraGB]

I guess I'm the only mean mom that would take it away "indefinitely". Many kids are like that with electronic stuff for some reason (my own kids included), and it makes me uneasy. I would let him know (along with all the other things you are planning to talk to him about) that he might just not be old enough or possess enough self-control for such a device and you'll be sure to let him know when you see a change. Considering it's not a first time offense, I don't feel several months without something like the iTouch is out of line for a seven year old.

[Happy2BaMom]

Heather & Laura, thanks for the "tips" (if they were that) on what to discuss with him - it helps.

 

It is freaky how addictive electronics are for many kids. I have nieces and nephew who literally do nothing else all day. (and their parents think it is fine).

 

I appreciate all the responses.

[KellyinPA]

I agree that you want to nip this behavior right now. Sometimes we have taken privileges away for a set amount of time but we have also stated that when we see improvement in a certain area THEN they can have their "whatever it happens to be" returned. Is this the only area you see deceitfulness in? Or are there others? I guess that's what I would question. If it's just the electronics or if it's an ongoing pattern.

[HLDoll]

I haven't read the other responses. But we went through a problem like this with my 6.5 yo boy. We had a computer set up in the basement play room (no internet access) with a few games he liked to play. For months, he was very good about asking permission and adhering to the timer. When his dad deployed, he started sneaking more time on it. I'd head down to the basement fridge to get something for dinner and he'd jump up and run across the room. He'd hear my footsteps near the stairs, and I'd hear him scrambling. We had a long talk (included dad on VTC) and talked about honesty, lying, sneaking, etc. and I removed the computer from the basement. He was allowed zero screen time for 1 month. I noticed during the time he was grounded from the computer, he was a much happier and relaxed boy. He went back to playing with playmobil and legos and was all around less anxious and obsessed. He's now allowed 30 minutes a day on the family computer off the kitchen and he gets very upset (to the point of tears) if we have a very busy day with friends and activities and he doesn't get his 30 minutes. I hate that it has such a grip on him, and that alone shows me that he's not ready to have the freedom of a computer in the playroom again.

[WishboneDawn]

I think taking it away for a certain time is good but I also think having discussions on what his fixation on the iPod is doing to his relationships and character are good to- on his level of course. Also, if you guys could sit down and he could help come up with some approach that would help him manage it, "Would it help if I hid it for you when you're not supposed to be playing?" "What about a timer?" Then it's not just about punishing but an opportunity for him to address the issue.

 

Electronics are everywhere. I think it's probably best that kids get the chance to make all their mistakes with them when we're around to help them rather then when they're adults with jobs and families that might be put at risk. Probably partly why our house is filled with gadgets that we generally don't limit. Or it's just the fact that we're all geeks. :)

[hornblower]

I think a couple days is enough. I kind of expect some sneaking at that age. But I respect (your last para) that this is a bigger issue for you than for me.

 

My advice would be: if it becomes an ongoing issue, I'd get rid of the thing altogether.

 

We had very strict limits on how much & what kids could do with screens & I didn't allow really cool gadgets in the house until I felt everyone could handle it.

 

For a long time there was only 1 computer (old & boring & slow), it was in a central location & there was an adult supervising. We didn't own many games. When a new game arrived, I expected everyone to go a bit crazy and want to play through meals & past bedtime for several days. Then they got bored & life moved on. New game wouldn't arrive for MONTHS.

 

The small handhelds are just too appealing, too easy to slip away with, too cool. Consider hard what you bring into your home & what kind of strife it will cause.

 

I was never that interested in running huge schedules & endlessly monitoring & supervising & keeping track of timers etc etc so I chose to severely limit these things in my home instead.

[elfgivas]

fwiw...

 

i'd be tempted to go to zero media time for three days. no tv. no radio. no computer. no itouch. no media. i would explain that because he had trouble managing media, we would go to zero and then work things back in. then on day 4 i would add in one of the above, and one each day on limited access until everything but the itouch was back in play.

 

then, i would explain that he could earn its use for no more than 30 minutes a day by doing specific chores that took effort. eg. cleaning the pets cages, raking the yard, etc. if he did 10 minutes of chores, he could have 10 minutes of itouch time. i would explain that this is because having one and being able to use it is a privilege. i would keep that in place for a week. (we are now at the 2 week mark). if this has all gone well, then i would put in a sign in/sign out system for it that he could use with me. for someone his age, i'd keep that in place for a really long time (months if not years).

 

 

hth,

ann

[nmoira]

We occasionally have cause to ban videogames and/or DVD's for whininess and begging to play/watch more. [Not for reasonably expressed feelings or wishes.] For each day that passes without whining about not having games, I put a big "X" through the day on the calendar. Seven x's in a row are sufficient to earn the privilege back. We rarely have to go more than 9 or 10 days.

[CalicoKat]

can you put a password on the iTouch?

 

I've got one too and I forsee this as being my future. So I'm listening

:lurk5:

[Happy2BaMom]

Good suggestions, all.

 

I hadn't thought about a password for the iTouch. There has to be a way. I'll see if I can look it up.

 

However, the larger issue about trust is still there.

[Haiku]

 

However, the larger issue about trust is still there.

 

I would be careful about making this an across-the-board trust issue. If you have a jar of cookies and you show them to a little kid and say, "Here they are, but you can't have any," and then the kid goes and sneaks some, would you really say the child is untrustworthy? Or would you say, "Gee, I guess I set my kid up to fail."

 

To me it seems much more reasonable to remove access to the iTouch for a long, long time and allow your son to mature some than it is to keep offering the same temptation and then shaming him when he can't resist (and to me, "character" talks with little kids who are, really, being little kids are very shaming).

 

Tara

[Forget-Me-Not]

Until the first of the year is too long. I'd go with 2 weeks. And I know you don't want to hear this BUT he is only 7. I'd lighten up a bit. My son sneaks legos under his pillow--it really is normal.

 

:iagree:

 

I would be careful about making this an across-the-board trust issue.

:iagree:Again, he's 7. He's not mature enough to monitor his own video game time. That doesn't make him "untrustworthy". Personally, I'd take it away for up to two weeks. When it was returned, I'd set up rules about using it in the main family area and setting an audible timer for the time limit.

[Jan in SC]

I think if you make too big of a deal then you are placing the ipod on a pedestal. It's just a material thing. Punish for lying and then remove the item from his view (thoughts) for charging. The ipod is not the issue. Moderation is the issue. Unfortunately, maturity is required to understand the need for moderation and I don't believe you should punish a seven year old boy for not being mature.

[Daisy]

I would take it away for at least 30 days. I'd want to make sure the habit/addiction was broken. Then I would set firm rules in place for screen time. If those rules were broken, he'd lose the privilege again.

 

But I may not be the best person to ask. My children do not play with electronics at all unless you count Flashmaster. The reason is simply because I want their passion and interests to lie in non-technology based activities.

 

I wouldn't necessarily see removing it as putting the item on a pedestal. I see it more as this item is so unimportant to our lives we are going to ditch it, without a second glance, if it leads you into poor character. Sneaking and deception are wrong behaviors at any age, imo.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Daisy

[Corraleno]

I guess I'm the only mean mom that would take it away "indefinitely". Many kids are like that with electronic stuff for some reason (my own kids included), and it makes me uneasy. I would let him know (along with all the other things you are planning to talk to him about) that he might just not be old enough or possess enough self-control for such a device and you'll be sure to let him know when you see a change. Considering it's not a first time offense, I don't feel several months without something like the iTouch is out of line for a seven year old.

:iagree: That's what I would do as well — in fact I took the games away permanently, not just indefinitely.

 

He was allowed zero screen time for 1 month. I noticed during the time he was grounded from the computer, he was a much happier and relaxed boy. He went back to playing with playmobil and legos and was all around less anxious and obsessed. He's now allowed 30 minutes a day on the family computer off the kitchen and he gets very upset (to the point of tears) if we have a very busy day with friends and activities and he doesn't get his 30 minutes. I hate that it has such a grip on him, and that alone shows me that he's not ready to have the freedom of a computer in the playroom again.

This was our situation as well. I actually "bought back" all the computer games as well as the DSLite that DS12 had bought with his own money, and then matched that amount (so it was worth double) he could spend on lego kits. He has been soooo much happier, less anxious, less cranky, etc since the gaming ended. Now he reads all the time, plays outside, builds legos, and plays chess, instead of moping around complaining he's bored and counting the minutes until he could get on the computer to play games. I'm loving the fact that he plays chess with his dad everyday instead of slaughtering barbarians in some computer game! I've noticed he has a much better attention span as well, and now he actually complains that when he goes to his friends' houses for playdates, all they want to do is play computer games, while he wants to play outside or build legos or ride bikes, etc.

 

Jackie

[FriedClams]

I would take away all screen time "until he can be trusted again". I never give dates - just expectations & standards I expect to consistently see before restoration.

[angela in ohio]

I guess I'm the only mean mom that would take it away "indefinitely". Many kids are like that with electronic stuff for some reason (my own kids included), and it makes me uneasy. I would let him know (along with all the other things you are planning to talk to him about) that he might just not be old enough or possess enough self-control for such a device and you'll be sure to let him know when you see a change. Considering it's not a first time offense, I don't feel several months without something like the iTouch is out of line for a seven year old.

 

:iagree:

 

He needs to detox. He is showing that he is not mature enough to handle the possible temptation that comes with an electronic device (addiction.)

[Medieval Mom]

I agree with these posters. Electronics at this age are certainly not necessary. It sounds to me as if he is just too young to handle them in a responsible way. There are so many, many, many other worthwhile things for little boys to be doing. ;) Also, I would also not have a very long conversation about it with him now about it. Just be frank, and encourage another activity instead. In the meantime, admire his honesty and forthrightness when he displays them. Cultivate good habits and opinions of himself. Let him overhear you praise his honesty when you are on the phone with relatives, or admire the honesty and good characters of others.

 

 

I guess I'm the only mean mom that would take it away "indefinitely". Many kids are like that with electronic stuff for some reason (my own kids included), and it makes me uneasy. I would let him know (along with all the other things you are planning to talk to him about) that he might just not be old enough or possess enough self-control for such a device and you'll be sure to let him know when you see a change. Considering it's not a first time offense, I don't feel several months without something like the iTouch is out of line for a seven year old.

 

I would be careful about making this an across-the-board trust issue. If you have a jar of cookies and you show them to a little kid and say, "Here they are, but you can't have any," and then the kid goes and sneaks some, would you really say the child is untrustworthy? Or would you say, "Gee, I guess I set my kid up to fail."

 

To me it seems much more reasonable to remove access to the iTouch for a long, long time and allow your son to mature some than it is to keep offering the same temptation and then shaming him when he can't resist (and to me, "character" talks with little kids who are, really, being little kids are very shaming).

 

Tara

 

I would take it away for at least 30 days. I'd want to make sure the habit/addiction was broken. Then I would set firm rules in place for screen time. If those rules were broken, he'd lose the privilege again.

 

But I may not be the best person to ask. My children do not play with electronics at all unless you count Flashmaster. The reason is simply because I want their passion and interests to lie in non-technology based activities.

 

I wouldn't necessarily see removing it as putting the item on a pedestal. I see it more as this item is so unimportant to our lives we are going to ditch it, without a second glance, if it leads you into poor character. Sneaking and deception are wrong behaviors at any age, imo.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Medieval Mom