Question for Reformed Christians

[Tabrett]

How do you decide what parts of the Old Testament one should still follow. I understand that all sacrifices are fulfilled though Jesus. But what about the rest of the law like procedures after childbirth or making sure there is no red mold in your house? I know we don't have a high priest to check and OK these types of things, but should we still follow them and how do you know what and what not to follow?

[i.love.lucy]

:confused: Well, I must be completely clueless because I have no idea what you are talking about. Even before I began following more the Doctrines of Grace, or TULIP that makes me "reformed" I guess, I didn't do all that old testament stuff. We follow the 10 Commandments of course, but that's about it. I always thought it was clear that so much of the law that the Jews were under in the OT was erradicated with the coming of Christ, and He tells us clearly that we don't have to follow all that any more.

 

Hopefully someone else will be able to chime in here and clue me in!

[Twigs]

I think that Jesus teaches us to focus on His commands in the NT.

Matthew 28 - 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.†Amen. (NKJV)

Also, the book of Galatians is about how Christ made us free, while following the Law (OT) keeps us in bondage. Of course, we can follow wise principles explained in the OT to our benefit, but I think that Christians should not be enslaved to the Law.

Best wishes.

[Tabrett]

I think that Jesus teaches us to focus on His commands in the NT.

 

Matthew 28 - 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.†Amen. (NKJV)

 

Also, the book of Galatians is about how Christ made us free, while following the Law (OT) keeps us in bondage. Of course, we can follow wise principles explained in the OT to our benefit, but I think that Christians should not be enslaved to the Law.

Best wishes.

Thanks! That makes a lot of sense to me. "Wise principles of the Old Testament". Off to study the wise principles!

[Daisy]

:confused: Well, I must be completely clueless because I have no idea what you are talking about. Even before I began following more the Doctrines of Grace, or TULIP that makes me "reformed" I guess, I didn't do all that old testament stuff. We follow the 10 Commandments of course, but that's about it. I always thought it was clear that so much of the law that the Jews were under in the OT was eradicated with the coming of Christ, and He tells us clearly that we don't have to follow all that any more.

 

Hopefully someone else will be able to chime in here and clue me in!

 

Ditto. As a matter of fact it was while growing up in a non-Reformed church that I was raised to believe Christ paid the price for my sin right up until I said the sinner's prayer. After salvation, I was expected to be perfect and obey the law and beg for forgiveness every single night or else I was going to fry. One of the most freeing things about studying the doctrines of grace was the discovery that Christ really did complete the work. It was HIS redemptive work and not my own attempts to follow the law that clothes me with his righteousness every single day.

[ScoutTN]

A short answer (based on the Westminster Confession of Faith - one helpful summary statement of reformed theology) to a loaded question:

 

The moral law, best but not exclusively expressed in the 10 Commandments, applies at all times to all believers. No exceptions.

 

The ceremonial law, as you said, is abrogated and not applicable to us today, though we can learn much from the way it pictures Christ and redemption.

 

The civil law applied only to OT Israel and is applied today only in the "general equity", meaning that the principles and ideas are still applicable though the details need to be adapted to context. E.g. An OT law about having a railing around a flat roof to keep people from falling off becomes a local law about having a fence around a swimming pool or a construction site.

 

Reformed Christians generally emphasize OT/NT continuity more than discontinuity. The idea being that if it is not clearly abrogated in the NT, it still holds. The law is good, as Paul said. It expresses the character of God and leads us to Christ.

Also excellent: Calvin's Institutes, Book two, chapters VII-XI.

 

Some reformed Christians, far to the right on a theological spectrum, called theonomists, would differ with my summary. But generally this the historic reformed position

 

Best reads on this - everything written the Apostle Paul, the book of Hebrews, Psalm 119 and The Shadow of Christ in the Law of Moses by Vern Poythress.

A fabulous read!

Edited August 9, 2010 by ScoutTN

[Cricket]

Ditto. As a matter of fact it was while growing up in a non-Reformed church that I was raised to believe Christ paid the price for my sin right up until I said the sinner's prayer. After salvation, I was expected to be perfect and obey the law and beg for forgiveness every single night or else I was going to fry. One of the most freeing things about studying the doctrines of grace was the discovery that Christ really did complete the work. It was HIS redemptive work and not my own attempts to follow the law that clothes me with his righteousness every single day.

 

Wow. That is harsh! I've never heard of that teaching. How sad! I'm glad you have moved on over to the Dark Side. :) I have heard people talk about their two conversions: the first time when they were saved and the second when they discovered the doctrines of grace.

[Joanne]

How do you decide what parts of the Old Testament one should still follow. I understand that all sacrifices are fulfilled though Jesus. But what about the rest of the law like procedures after childbirth or making sure there is no red mold in your house? I know we don't have a high priest to check and OK these types of things, but should we still follow them and how do you know what and what not to follow?

 

Exodus 20:2-17

 

Deuteronomy 6: 6-9

 

The rest pretty much falls under these two.

[Marylou]

www.whitehorseinn.org

[BikeBookBread]

www.whitehorseinn.org

 

I ditto this recommendation...good stuff. There was a good broadcast last fall about Jesus, the Law and Christian living (I just looked it up - it played on October 25, 2009 - here is the info page for that broadcast...I am not sure how to listen to the broadcast itself, but there are some good resources listed).

Edited August 10, 2010 by BikeBookBread

[Carol in Cal.]

I'm Lutheran, and I wondered about this same issue for years. I heard many times that the moral law still applies, but that the ceremonial law does not. I wondered how in the world anyone reached that conclusion, and how you know where to draw that line.

 

It wasn't until I read the whole New Testament, about 9 years ago, that it became very clear to me. There are many places in Acts and the epistles that say this exact thing--they give a list of moral laws to follow, and free people explicitly from the ceremonial laws. Over and over this is the conclusion that the early church came to, and that the inspired Word documents. It's clear, it's simple, and it's repeatable.

 

I hate to suggest that you read the whole New Testament just to prove this to yourself, but there are so many other good things about reading the Bible that I dare to suggest this for ALL of the good reasons.

 

I grew up on the KJV, and love it still, but reading the whole thing in modern English, over about a year or two's time, really pulled together some of the more obscure themes very clearly for me. I used the Concordia Self-Study Bible in the NIV version; others in the little house group that met to discuss this each week used the Concordia Devotional Bible, NIV, which I don't like nearly as much. The cross references and helpful essays in the SSB are just wonderful.

[Harry Nelson in Charlotte]

The wrong teaching that Daisy mentions is not only not reformed, its not biblical. Don't hang on that false teaching the label of non-Reformed. It is non-Christian.

 

Two conversions? Indeed. Some of the great Reformed theologians of our day would (and have) scoff at such talk. The Bible does, as well.

 

Are you of Reformed or are you of Christ?

1 Corinthians 1: 12-15, 12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,†or “I follow Apollos,†or “I follow Cephas,†or “I follow Christ.†13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name.

 

My best friend in the world, on staff at a Southern Baptist seminary, is Reformed through and through. Yet he and I both are able to argue in a good natured way about these things. This is critical among Christians. Please be open to brothers and sisters in Christ that adhere to biblical theology, yet not necessarily Reformed in a Calvinist sense.

 

Be careful here. What you label as Reformed may simply be Biblical, and be a belief held by non-Reformed brothers and sisters. One of the big ones, Monergism is not an exclusively Reformed concept.

 

Back to the original question, though.

 

ScoutTN does an admirable job in answering the question.

 

And, his/her suggestion of Poythress is a good one. I self-describe as "Five solas Reformed not Calvinist Reformed" Poythress is one of the few authors on either side of the debate whom has a spirit of humility such that even if I don't agree with him(and I frequently don't), I am greatly encouraged by his writing.