dealing with perfectionism/frustrations

[Aoife]

My DS who just started Pre-k is a perfectionist. I wouldn't mind if it was just a touch but it's not. It sometimes gets to the point of debilitating. He learned his letters and sounds on his own by the time he was two and began begging to learn to read and do "school" like his big sisters. He wants so terribly bad to learn how to write so I picked him up the HWOT prek book mainly for fun. However if he doesn't trace it just the way he thinks he should he gets very upset. I try to take a break from it but then he gets more upset because he really wants to get it "right". I've tried telling him that it takes a while to learn and that it took mommy and daddy a while too and that he'll get better as he grows up and practices. It helps for a fe minutes before he gets worked up again. This issue sin't just with his writing though it carries over into so many parts of life. Like art which should be FUN if he doesn't make his oval just they way he envisions it he gets really upset and hard on himself :( I've tried showing him abstract art and other art forms that things are exactly "perfect" which again works until he reaches the wall again. His mind is so advanced in the way he thinks about things that it seems almost that he gets so frustrated that his little body isn't capable of all the things his mind is and wants to do. Has anyone ever encountered this before and know a way I can help him relax and enjoy his time and childhood? I first noticed parts of this around 18 months when he would set up things very meticulously in his room like his dinos in ascending order by size and also grouped by color :P He is not however autistic and is emotionally very empathetic and loving. Could he have something like OCD of is this just a normal phase that he might pass out of?

[Embassy]

Perfectionism, I believe, is common among the gifted population. My oldest son has lots of perfectionist tendencies. At a young age I had to bring home the idea that he was not perfect, I was not perfect, no one was perfect and it was okay to make mistakes. I still have to remind him of that, but he does deal with things a little better now. I don't know your religious stance, but it really helped my son when he understood the plan of salvation where all people are in need of a Savior (i.e. no one is perfect).

 

If possible I would hold off on handwriting if it is a source of problems. Maybe you can go with mazes or other fun activities that would give him some practice with fine motor skills without seeing that his tracing doesn't match the letters. I started my son on typing early on while he was still learning how to write letters.

[regentrude]

My daughter is a perfectionist as well. (At age 5, she would cry for 20 minutes during PE because she was afraid of trying out a simple exercise for fear she might not do it correctly.)

What was very helpful for us was music instruction. She started learning to play the piano at age 5. At the beginning, every mistake had her running crying form the piano. It took a lot of patience to get her to realize that mistakes are OK, that the only way to attain mastery at an instrument (and many other things) is practice, and that not succeeding immediately did not imply that she is stupid. I think the problem was particularly bad becuase she always excelled at academic stuff without effort - she simply thought life had to be this way or you're stupid.

Now that she is 13 she is still ambitious and driven and to a certain degree a perfectionist, but she has developed frustration tolerance and doe snot let her tendencies get in the way of her success.

So, I recommend giving your child an opportunity to learn that mistakes are OK and practice necessary - instrument lessons or a difficult sport are good for that. Also, keep in mind that he is still young and things will become better when he gets more mature.

Agnes

[marie33]

My feeling is that this is really normal for younger gifted children. I have limited experience with mine, mom of a 4yo ds too who taught himself letters and sounds at 2yo...but I don't think that what you're describing is unlike a gifted preschooler or even k level. These little guys have such big emotions and have little experience how to manage and express them. I have to remind myself that every time my little ds instantly flips out at the way I have decided to do something. It's not the way he would have done it, and is therefore wrong. He has perfectionist behaviors as well, but I wouldn't consider them OCD, just as I wouldn't say that about yours. They are just frustrated, sometimes angry about the thing in their head not being the reality in front of them and it hurts for them. It is uncomfortable and can be emotionally painful for them to accept. Again, they have little experience managing such big emotions and seeing the proper perspective in the expectations they have for themselves.

 

I think this is something that gets better with time and experience. It's not that your ds will grow out of it, but that he will come to learn better coping skills in managing his big emotions and expectations.

 

Also, I agree with the salvation approach, if faith is part of your family life. Very well put!!! We do all need a Savior!

 

I also agree that introducing other challenges and holding off on writing might be the best idea for now. I actually did this with my ds, and when he was ready for writing, he came back to it on his own. He doesn't love it now, but he is much more willing and a lot less discouraged! He now realizes that he is able to write, where before he couldn't succeed no matter how much practice...motor skills weren't there and he just wasn't ready.

 

Hang in there.;) I know it's hard...

[Aoife]

thanks for the advice :) I should reiterate though that we are not making him do writing but rather it is something he has expressed great interest in and asked for. Personally I'd rather wait but he has other plans :tongue_smilie: I was already planning on getting a nice keyboard for the schoolroom so the boys could learn piano as I did when I was younger so I may try that approach as well as others to get him to understand that mistakes are a natural part of life athat we learn and grow from.

[Guest]

I've read other posts on these boards where some kids found it easier to deal with less-than-perfect letters if they were playing around writing in shaving foam sprayed on the shower wall; sand, salt, or pudding in trays; chalk and water on a finger with the HWT little chalkboards; paintbrushes and big free-form writing on huge sheets of paper. Would your child try these kinds of things out, or is he insistent that he write using a pencil and paper?

[Hockey Mom]

I've read other posts on these boards where some kids found it easier to deal with less-than-perfect letters if they were playing around writing in shaving foam sprayed on the shower wall; sand, salt, or pudding in trays; chalk and water on a finger with the HWT little chalkboards; paintbrushes and big free-form writing on huge sheets of paper. Would your child try these kinds of things out, or is he insistent that he write using a pencil and paper?

 

This was what I was going to suggest. I don't know if my DS7 is 'gifted' or not, but he is definitely a perfectionist - to the point of driving me crazy - and he's very bright. He has to have everything 'exactly so' or it results in frustration, crumbled up paper, and sometimes tears.

 

Practicing his writing in sand was a HUGE hit with him (and me) because it allowed for him to not be perfect. Who can write perfect letters in dry sand? I bought some really pretty blue sand (his favorite color) and keep it in a plastic box. I sometimes allow him to do his math problems in sand as well (instead of scrap paper) because he gets upset if the problem doesn't LOOK perfect.

[SnegurochkaL]

Hi, I have an older child who is perfectionist too. I told her that is OK to make mistakes. Even such a challenging sport as figure skating didn't make a big difference for her. She is working on improvements of her skills and more positive attitude to mistakes.

 

When she was young I used a salt box for practicing writing letters. It helped a lot because she could erase not properly formed letters and write a new one. I also use a dry-erase board for our spelling practice.

[mom-2-1]

Awesome thread:-)

[jenbrdsly]

Have you checked out the Supporting the Emotional Needs of the Gifted website? http://www.sengifted.org/ It has a lot of articles about helping children deal with perfectionist tendencies.

[Donna]

I love the book "Mindset: The New Psychology of Success" by Carol Dweck. It gives us clues as parents on how what we say and/or just our body language can either help or hinder a perfectionist child.

 

I credit my dd taking Suzuki violin really young in helping her learn to deal with her perfectionism. She went from a kid who balked at anything she didn't get on the 1st try to a child who can improvise and ornament music with ease over the years and it carried over into her everyday life as well for creativity and willingness to try new things in school and sports.

 

I think it is important to celebrate effort rather than outcome and let them see you try new things and make mistakes.

[serendipitous journey]

The perfectionism bug is a constant pest 'round here ... I'm relieved by this thread; we're using Ambleside Online mainly K and soon for first grade, and the Charlotte Mason emphasis on teaching a child to do things "perfectly" would be so toxic for my little guy.

 

One thing that helped was deliberately rewarding the child for continuing past mistakes: I am trying to teach him how to make mistakes, and how to move forward. For example, a Waldorf art DVD I saw emphasized that art "mistakes" should be incorporated into the finished product. So we talked a lot about that. I also started labeling my mistakes for him, and talking to him about how I felt about them and how I was handling them. Depending on his emotional resources, I try to help him through a mistake when he loses it. For example, if he wrote a wrong numeral and started to get hysterical, I might console him, give him a little treat, and try to move forward. Sometimes I require him to move past a mistake (that is, it is a required part of his work; if he doesn't finish his schoolwork each day he loses toys until he completes a day. If this sounds draconian, please know that otherwise he's be a miserable huddle of a soul many days; his "school" may include required time outside, nature walks, stories, art or math). Also, his father is a scientist and I have considerable science experience, so we've talked about how when you are doing science things usually don't work the first time and you have to fiddle to get it going.

[Dmmetler]

Gymnastics has been wonderful for my perfectionist. You can't learn anything in gymnastics without getting it wrong about the first 50 times, EVERYONE falls, EVERYONE has times where they do a skill correctly, then mess it up the next time, and so on. And I'm starting to see this carry over, where when she gets frustrated with a math problem, she's able to step back, do something else, then come back to it later and figure it out, without the total meltdown and the "I failed" response.

 

Honestly, if I'd realized how much Gymnastics would help my DD, I would have put her in it at age 2!

[LittleIzumi]

Gymnastics has been wonderful for my perfectionist. You can't learn anything in gymnastics without getting it wrong about the first 50 times, EVERYONE falls, EVERYONE has times where they do a skill correctly, then mess it up the next time, and so on. And I'm starting to see this carry over, where when she gets frustrated with a math problem, she's able to step back, do something else, then come back to it later and figure it out, without the total meltdown and the "I failed" response.

 

Honestly, if I'd realized how much Gymnastics would help my DD, I would have put her in it at age 2!

Interesting!! I love gymnastics for a similar reason--it finally challenges her, shows her that that there are some things she needs to practice, pushes her out of her comfort zone but shows her that she CAN do it if she practices and tries things she isn't altogether happy with, and then she is so pleased & proud when she does them. :) Gymnastics rocks.

[serendipitous journey]

Gymnastics has been wonderful for my perfectionist. You can't learn anything in gymnastics without getting it wrong about the first 50 times, EVERYONE falls, EVERYONE has times where they do a skill correctly, then mess it up the next time, and so on.

 

:lol: my oldest DS melted down at gymnastics. He wouldn't even try something once he knew he couldn't do it as perfectly as the instructor. The balance beam & the trampolines were all he would do; he sat miserably while all the other children went about tumbling, falling over, gradually improving, and generally seeming well-adjusted ...

[Bang!Zoom!]

Have you ever heard of either of these two?

 

Blooms Taxonomy

Multiple Intelligences

 

If you happen to get curious, go reading about, here is a starter link for Blooms

http://edorigami.wikispaces.com/Bloom%27s+Digital+Taxonomy

 

Multiple Intelligences

http://www.infed.org/thinkers/gardner.htm

 

Those are just some static web pages.

 

Blooms & MI are my go-to methods for planning and guiding. I've seen a child taught k-12 through these methods (my oldest daughter)- and the short story is this. This is really easy, very effective.

 

Every child has these intelligences (I'm going to talk just MI for the moment). The trick is to match up the preferred method of learning X skill under which form or intelligence.

 

Let's take writing for example. I am going to say writing the letter B as an example going forward...

 

For a lesson plan under Blooms for a 5 year old you would want to start them at the "base" of knowledge. This would involve activities that involve "remembering".

 

Remembering skills...how to present them?

 

Now you jump into MI theory under "remembering" activities. Present one or several of each. See what the child "sticks with". (A really easy clue is when they 'smile' and engage, and again later in recalling)

 

Remembering (Blooms) can be done through each category of (MI):

examples will be in RED

 

 

Here is a list of MI approaches/application of MI in red text:

 

Linguistic intelligence involves sensitivity to spoken and written language, the ability to learn languages, and the capacity to use language to accomplish certain goals. This intelligence includes the ability to effectively use language to express oneself rhetorically or poetically; and language as a means to remember information. Writers, poets, lawyers and speakers are among those that Howard Gardner sees as having high linguistic intelligence.

 

Okay, now we are going to focus on the Blooms first layer: remembering. This means in short for to: define, duplicate, list, memorize, recall, repeat, reproduce state

 

How do we get a child working on the letter B to exercise the remembering portion through Linguistic Intelligence?

 

An example would be to make up a silly rhyme, to exercise speech. (Think of the C is for cookie song from Sesame Street).

 

"Letter B is a hoot, you can find it in the letter BOOT!"

 

As the instructor, you could enhance the recall (remembering portion) of the lesson by video taping it, playing it back later. Now the child has sound and image (linguistic and visual as majors) for remembering...solidifying the concept. (You could actually do a whole lesson on the alphabet into a final movie..agh! FUN!

 

My point is to really watch the child, see how they engage with the teaching. If verbal doesn't high score in involvement..you've got plenty more coming to find the area of intelligence they most easily learn though...make a note of it...and practice over and over again until you find their intelligence "trigger" in whatever discipline or realm they are learning (be it math/music/art/history) etc.

 

Now to the next intelligence with the goal of remembering in place..

 

Logical-mathematical intelligence consists of the capacity to analyze problems logically, carry out mathematical operations, and investigate issues scientifically. In Howard Gardner's words, it entails the ability to detect patterns, reason deductively and think logically. This intelligence is most often associated with scientific and mathematical thinking.

 

A simple lesson in learning/remember the letter B in mathmatical arenas.

 

Your goal here is to incorporate math into the skill of remembering letter B.

 

A simple pattern detection lesson would be to cut out large letters..A/B/C. Lay them on the table and ask the child to put them in the right order. This is pattern work. Very simple, but again, this is just about the phase of remembering...that's all you concentrate on. Cut the letter into 3 piece next, have the child reassemble them. It's more pattern work/math.

 

Musical intelligence involves skill in the performance, composition, and appreciation of musical patterns. It encompasses the capacity to recognize and compose musical pitches, tones, and rhythms. According to Howard Gardner musical intelligence runs in an almost structural parallel to linguistic intelligence.

 

For musical/spatial, you could take the child outside and have them sing the B is for Boot, it's such a HOOT song...while they sing songs, pound on pots and pans, tap the piano keys repetitively. If you know your musical scales, you could even write the "score" on paper with notes and drift into that area of music reading for a moment....take a clothesline outside, have them chant the rhyme while they design a giant letter B in the grass..trace it in dirt..anything really.

 

Changing the environment of learning (the actual room) is super helpful for kids in cementing concepts also.

 

Bodily-kinesthetic intelligence entails the potential of using one's whole body or parts of the body to solve problems. It is the ability to use mental abilities to coordinate bodily movements. Howard Gardner sees mental and physical activity as related.

 

For this one, something as simple as jumping rope is an idea. Jump rope, singing the song. You could make up a tag game, run around with him. "I'm the letter B and you can't get me!"

 

Spatial intelligence involves the potential to recognize and use the patterns of wide space and more confined areas.

 

There are two areas to cover here..wide space/small space. Give him a ride around town, scoping billboards, out in the grocery store..go on a letter B hunt. Use a camera, let him take pictures of the ones he sees. When you come home, have him find more in a magazine. Maybe after finding 5 letters in the book, he gets a cookie. Sing your B is a Hoot song together. Make the learning fun.

 

The point is to get him to see the letter B in different spatial environments, large and small.

 

Interpersonal intelligence is concerned with the capacity to understand the intentions, motivations and desires of other people. It allows people to work effectively with others. Educators, salespeople, religious and political leaders and counsellors all need a well-developed interpersonal intelligence.

 

This would be simple story time, have him talk about his adventures with the letter B so far. Have him pick a favorite and find 2 reasons it was his favorite and explain to you.

 

Intrapersonal intelligence entails the capacity to understand oneself, to appreciate one's feelings, fears and motivations. In Howard Gardner's view it involves having an effective working model of ourselves, and to be able to use such information to regulate our lives.

 

Have the child tell a final story of the adventure of letter B, you can write it up in a couple of sentences and save it in his "alphabet adventures."

 

------------

 

Now. Whew. You've done blooms in multiple intelligence style. Onto the next level of creation.

 

Done: Letter B. Level: Remembering

 

----

 

Crawl up to the next level of Blooms which is: Understanding.

 

Understanding in Blooms means to: classify, describe, discuss, explain, identify, locate, recognize, report, select, translate, paraphrase

 

Many of these skill sets were done in the above exercises..but some were not. Find the missing ones, fill in for short lessons, and then onto the next level of Blooms..which is:

 

Applying

 

Applying means to:

 

can the student use the information in a new way? choose, demonstrate, dramatize, employ, illustrate, interpret, operate, schedule, sketch, solve, use, write.

 

You just keep crawling up the pyramid, making up lesson plans as you go, they do not need to be complex, just fully explored.

 

The last three are:

 

Analyzing: can the student distinguish between the different parts? appraise, compare, contrast, criticize, differentiate, discriminate, distinguish, examine, experiment, question, test.

 

Evaluating: can the student justify a stand or decision? appraise, argue, defend, judge, select, support, value, evaluate

 

Creating: can the student create new product or point of view? assemble, construct, create, design, develop, formulate, write.

 

-----

 

The "click" factor on this is that you, the instructor, review the entire learning process at the end and say to yourself...

 

"Billy learns written language best through the ___________" (whatever MI field it turns out to be)

 

Over space and time, you'll learn what activities cause the most learning to occur, the most "sticky" information to settle in, the greatest joys, the worst ways (and it might be pen and paper for this area considering his initial resistance to it).

 

After some time goes by, and it's time to teach, you'll know which method to stress the teaching.

 

And right about the time you get ahold of that answer..they grow, develop, change their learning style, and you have to hunt it up all over again.

 

The charter in which my daughter attended was based on MI.

 

Every lesson had a station of tools geared toward one particular intelligence. The children were free to wander about, selecting the method of learning they wanted to apply to the task or lesson at hand.

 

Kids naturally know this inside. It's amazing stuff.

 

Good luck.

Edited July 20, 2011 by one*mom

[Dmmetler]

:lol: my oldest DS melted down at gymnastics. He wouldn't even try something once he knew he couldn't do it as perfectly as the instructor. The balance beam & the trampolines were all he would do; he sat miserably while all the other children went about tumbling, falling over, gradually improving, and generally seeming well-adjusted ...

 

 

It took several months before DD's coach could get her to even try the bars, because DD was so convinced that she couldn't do it. I think the fact that sitting there while everyone else was apparently having fun finally convinced her to try it. I'm amazed her coach was as patient as she was (I was ready to strangle DD from the waiting area-and finally got to the point that I'd go to the craft store and walk around for an hour because I couldn't stand seeing her do that to herself). But once she did it once, she's found the next step easier and easier. It wasn't an overnight thing-but in about 6 months, I've seen more improvement on the perfectionism via gymnastics than in anything else she's done.

[jenbrdsly]

"That's good enough."

 

That's one of the things you are supposed to say to perfectionists frequently, according to some of the presenters at the SENG conference this past weekend.

[serendipitous journey]

It took several months before DD's coach could get her to even try the bars, because DD was so convinced that she couldn't do it. I think the fact that sitting there while everyone else was apparently having fun finally convinced her to try it. I'm amazed her coach was as patient as she was (I was ready to strangle DD from the waiting area-and finally got to the point that I'd go to the craft store and walk around for an hour because I couldn't stand seeing her do that to herself). But once she did it once, she's found the next step easier and easier. It wasn't an overnight thing-but in about 6 months, I've seen more improvement on the perfectionism via gymnastics than in anything else she's done.

 

I'm glad to hear that gymnastics helped her so much! Gymnastics being such a success just struck me as funny, since it was really not working here; children, and esp. the accelerated ones it seems, are so different. DS is a fairly extreme introvert and very sensitive (as in The Highly Sensitive Child) so one of the major problems with gymnastics was the group nature. Since then I've learned that he can develop/expand skills, or he can manage the stress of large groups, but not both at the same time. -- or maybe it's that developing the skill of managing himself in large groups is enough to keep him busy. BTW "large group" means more than 2 or 3 other children. :) Groups are still hard for him, but the perfectionism is not an issue right now.

 

It's esp. good to hear about other children's good progress with gym so it occurs to me when I'm talking with parents I know struggling with the same issues ... now it will occur to me to mention it!

[Iucounu]

Here are some resources on gifted perfectionists:

http://www.giftedwiki.org/index.php?title=Perfectionism

 

Note the links in the "online resources" section; you can hunt up lots of discussion threads on various sites, etc.

[Angela Beshears]

My 3yo is this way and we use the same book and have had similar frustrations. Actually, I think I remember it starting with a Kumon coloring book when she was 2 or 2.5. It had this big circle of white in the middle of a picture so that kids would just color without worrying about the outside lines. Well, she was still worried about it, and worried about filling in every millimeter of white with that color. She would completely shut down and ask me to do it. So I finally said okay but purposely colored sloppily and said, like someone mentioned previously, "that's good enough". So now if she desperately asks me to do something in her handwriting book, I will say, "okay, I'll try" and purposely mess it up a bit, and ask her to help me. Hope that helps.

 

Awesome thread by the way, because I am always looking for new insight and ideas with this personality trait!