FaithManor Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Her bank's loan officer is gone for the day so I can't ask him. Does anyone know if there is a maximum age for borrowers? Given that she has high blood pressure and is being tested for an auto-immune disorder, I think there is a good chance that she might die before paying off the loan and with the kind of depreciation new cars incur during the first three years, I'd say that the estate could end up paying a lot of money for a car that has a much lower blue book value. Personally, I don't think its a good investment because she can get a very nice used car around here for such a good price that she could pay cash and not make much of a debt into her savings. Plus, I can't imagine how expensive insurance would be on a new car with a loan on it for a 74 year old. Oh, and here's the big kicker! She wants a jeep liberty. Well, her balance isn't all that great and that thing sits off the ground a ways so I have visions of her falling, breaking a hip, and ending up in a nursing home. Thoughts! Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ME-Mommy Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Your MIL sounds like my MIL -- only my MIL just bought a NEW, hold-over Saturn Aura!!!! They don't even make Saturns any more...this thing is CRAZY expensive to work on and it will need tires before winter...over $800 worth of tires. :svengo: She asked our opinion when she was "just looking" and we advised her against it -- she did it anyway. :glare: We seriously doubt that she will live long enough to pay off the loan -- we know that as the executors we are probably going to have to sell everything to pay off what she owes -- not just the car but multiple credit cards, etc. and we might not make enough to do that. We are scared... I feel your pain... :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 maybe there will be some kind of loan insurance that will pay off the balance if she dies? i might be tempted to check that out for her credit cards, too.... are you actually responsible for her debt if she dies or does her estate just pay out until there is nothing left? that's something i don't know... good luck! ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted August 5, 2010 Author Share Posted August 5, 2010 I don't think we'd be personally responsible but I do think the bank could put a lien against her estate for the balance. So if her money is gone, that would mean selling the house to get the equity out of it and pay it off. I don't have a probably doing that, but I am questioning the use of the money, the interest, the car payment on a fixed income (she has about $2000.00 in retirement/pension payments so long as the state of Florida does not ever need to cut employee pensions). I have to run to the barn and take care of some horses. I'll be reading all the replies when I get back. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 It's her money, though, and if she wanted to spend every penny of her estate on a trip to Bora Bora, then she could, right?:lol: The beneficiaries of her estate may not like the Jeep Liberty, but she does. If she falls out and breaks a hip and ends up in a nursing home, then her assets will be depleted. Until she dies, they are still her assets. If there aren't enough assets to pay off her credit card bills and the balance of the car loan, then the bank is stuck with the loss, not you. If I were her I would skip the Jeep Liberty and go to Bora Bora!:tongue_smilie: BTW, my grandmother is 88, so I don't see 74 as being all that elderly. She has bad balance and high blood pressure, too. She had a mild heart attack a couple of years ago. Overall, her health is good. Don't write your MIL off yet!;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ME-Mommy Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Hi Faith, I totally agree with you -- it's the principle of being on a fixed income and buying an expensive vehicle that one really can't afford. I don't know about your MIL -- but my MIL is relying totally on SSI (or whatever they call Social Security) and it isn't much. She has NO savings left...spent it all. One month she didn't have enough $$ to buy groceries (supposedly) and went to the foodbank!!!!!!!!!! Well, where I come from, you don't go buy a car on payments if you can't put food on the table... Have you tried talking her down?? If she won't listen to you, is there someone else she will listen to?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 (edited) My parents bought a very expensive car and had to be driven by a relative to go shopping for it because they both had serious mobility problems and memory issues. I just shook my head over the whole thing. An expensive car with a 7-year loan. What were they thinking? A year later mom's license was taken away for medical reasons, and it sat for two years in their garage while they made payments on it and periodically someone would drive it to take them places, but it hardly moved. Thankfully a family friend helped get it sold after Dad died. It was a little over three years old and had less than 5,000 miles on it, but they were able to pay off the loan somehow. Edited August 5, 2010 by GVA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Who cares about the money! She is 74 years old with health issues. She shouldn't be driving!!! I always thank my lucky stars when I am at my local foodstore that no one was run over. People that can barely walk on their own (or barely walk with a walker), park crooked with their cars sticking out at odd angles and slowly make their way into the foodstore. Stop driving!! Several months ago an elderly women was being directed into a parking space by her caregiver and mixed up the brake and the gas. She killed the women in the parking lot of our local diner. End of my rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ME-Mommy Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Who cares about the money! She is 74 years old with health issues. She shouldn't be driving!!! I always thank my lucky stars when I am at my local foodstore that no one was run over. People that can barely walk on their own (or barely walk with a walker), park crooked with their cars sticking out at odd angles and slowly make their way into the foodstore. Stop driving!! Several months ago an elderly women was being directed into a parking space by her caregiver and mixed up the brake and the gas. She killed the women in the parking lot of our local diner. End of my rant. You're right --- BUT try telling the elderly driver that. It isn't an easy thing...we had my MIL's license "pulled" and she still drove. (granted it was "ONLY" a mile up the road but still...:glare: ) What if she had hurt/killed someone -- all in the name of being stupid?!?!?! We literally had to threaten to call the police if she did it again...then my MIL called the doctor (unbeknown to me) and pleaded, cried, sobbed until the doctor caved...:banghead: Thread hijack over... :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcarolinamom Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Don't co-sign the loan!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted August 5, 2010 Author Share Posted August 5, 2010 Thanks everyone. We won't be co-signing a thing. Dh is very concerned as well. Her driving isn't bad for a rural area with very little traffic. She goes to a pharmacy in the small town near her as well as the little supermarket and farmer's market. Her doctor is also in an easy drive, no traffic location. So, since it would be a problem of gargantuan family drama to have her license pulled, we told the doctor that she was to make that call when she felt it was time and to leave our name out of it. She is a great geriatric doctor and agreed. She even tests her patient's reaction times plus gets copies of their hearing and eye tests every year. I think she is on top of that situation. Here's the thing that concerns me even more than the money. A jeep is not a low to ground vehicle. She gets in and out of our Saturn sedan and even my parents mini-van with the running boards pretty well although occasionally, she seems a little off kilter. But, the jeep doesn't come with running boards and is up higher than my parents mini-van so I have visions of a major fall. She currently drives a small buick sedan and we wouldn't be in this boat if the transmission wasn't going out of it. My niece, a thirty something with absolutely not one ounce of common sense in her head, is the one convincing grandma to buy a jeep..."OOOOO granny it's the car you always said you wanted and granpa wouldn't let you have. OOOOO my friends have jeeps and they swear by them. OOOOO you'll look so good....a really cool granny....blah, blah, blah." This is the grandchild she has always favored above all others. Of course, I know exactly what the little brat is thinking. Granny will kick off, the car will be paid off, low mileage, and I'll get my granny to put it in the will to me! Believe me, my sil's kids don't have an ounce of moral scruples in their bodies and are always scheming. What really ticks me is that it isn't as if this grandchild has a real need either. Her husband works for Abercrombie and Fitch as an Assitant Vice President (six figure income) and she has her own wedding planner business and nets $80,000.00 a year! So, that's the family drama. Dh is going to tell the loan officer that he has no intention of paying off that loan if anything happens to her and that the house is his (she put it in our name a long time ago and we pay property taxes and do all of the upkeep). If her savings is gone, they'll have to repo a car that has probably depreciated below the amount owed. Hopefully, this will keep her from getting the loan. I am knew to all of this. My parents aren't retired yet and still work 60 hour work weeks in their own business. They are about ten years younger than she. Argh......of course, if my sil gets it into her head that her mother ought to do this, we'll have a family fight on our hands. I guess my thought is, "If your mother falls getting out of that thing and breaks her hip, we'll be moving her in with you!" Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 To put an upper age limit on loans would constitute age discrimination and is illegal. It used to be the case that one couldn't take out a 30-year mortage after some particular age, but that is now illegal as well. I'm not saying it is a good idea on her part, but it would be illegal for the bank or whomever is providing the financing to decline the application because she is 74 and in sketchy health. Terri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutor Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Does anyone know if there is a maximum age for borrowers? Since my FIL was able to get a 30 year mortgage just after his 70th birthday, I am guessing no, but I am sure it must come into play when making the loan decision. Maybe in conjuntion with determining if the bank believes the estate will be able to pay-off the loan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 (edited) If she does end up getting it, I would buy and install her some after market running boards so she can get in and out of the beast...just do not mention that, but I would do it if she does end up in that situation. My grandma bought a ford explorer when she was in her late 60's or early 70's, she jokingly referred to it as my mom's car. Sure enough, my mom got it a few years later when grandma died. Edited August 5, 2010 by ElizabethB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Her bank's loan officer is gone for the day so I can't ask him. By the way, if I were your MIL, and you went behind my back to talk to my loan officer, I would be furious with you. If the loan officer actually discussed my application with you, I would smack him, report him to his supervisor and the state banking board and take my business elsewhere. I don't understand why this bothers you so much. The liability is and never will be yours. Terri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyK Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 maybe there will be some kind of loan insurance that will pay off the balance if she dies? i might be tempted to check that out for her credit cards, too.... are you actually responsible for her debt if she dies or does her estate just pay out until there is nothing left? that's something i don't know... good luck! ann If someone dies with debts in excess of assets, the family is not responsible for those debts unless they guaranteed them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted August 5, 2010 Author Share Posted August 5, 2010 It bothers me so much because we conserve her savings by taking responsibility for a house we would have never purchased in a million years. We already put money we don't have into helping her keep that place. It seems morally wrong for her to buy a high priced vehicle, incur a payment, meanwhile dh is doing all of the upkeep and footing the bill. Neither of his sibs live close by (1200 and 1400 miles away) so if she falls, that's our responsibility too. She could fall out of any car, but this one is just an accident waiting to happen. As I said in an above post, she gets a little off balance getting out of my parents' mini-van which sits far lower and has running boards. I think we'd be crazy to believe she can get in and out of that jeep even if we put after-market boards on it. Of course, she'll be tapping out her immediate savings for the down payment and her other savings, not great but at least a small nest-egg, is a cd that won't mature for another six months. So guess who will get stuck with the running board bill. Of course, we could make the choice not to purchase the running boards or pay for the installation but knowing that she absolutely will get hurt without them, it begs the question as to whether or not that is a moral choice on our part. As to anyone thinking we are in the wrong to talk to her doctor, she is the one that signed us both on as her medical proxies and who encouraged us to stay in close contact with the doctor since her own mother had dementia (but not alzheimers) and she wants treatment at the first sign of trouble but as a former nurse, knows she won't recognize those symptoms in herself. It's not uncommon for me to end up at the doctor's office with her. So, since we've been given permission to express our concerns, I don't feel one bit guilty for doing it. The whole thing is just a huge mess. We found two perfectly wonderful used vehicles with low mileage, the right size, height, etc. that would not tap her savings out nor require a payment. But, her track history has always been to listen to her conniving grandaughter and equally disturbed daughter! Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ME-Mommy Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 I don't understand why this bothers you so much. The liability is and never will be yours. Terri I can't speak for the OP, but I -- as the person that puts a roof over my MIL's head -- don't like dealing with the debt collectors -- REPEATEDLY -- and the thought of trying to deal with them after she's gone and racked up MORE debt makes me ill. Then there's the fact that she blows her $$ and can't put food on her table... The constant and repeated "bailing her out" drives me insane... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ME-Mommy Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 It bothers me so much because we conserve her savings by taking responsibility for a house we would have never purchased in a million years. We already put money we don't have into helping her keep that place. It seems morally wrong for her to buy a high priced vehicle, incur a payment, meanwhile dh is doing all of the upkeep and footing the bill. Faith :iagree: -- and totally understand what you're saying...:grouphug: to you and your husband as you make some tough decisions. And I don't blame you one bit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 I don't know if would help you any, but would a lease be a better deal than a loan? I also wanted to say than in general the insurance that pays off a loan in the event of death is usually not a good deal. Given your MILs age, it would probably be a really bad deal because it would be very costly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 By the way, if I were your MIL, and you went behind my back to talk to my loan officer, I would be furious with you. If the loan officer actually discussed my application with you, I would smack him, report him to his supervisor and the state banking board and take my business elsewhere. I don't understand why this bothers you so much. The liability is and never will be yours. Terri :iagree:My thoughts exactly. I can't imagine doing this to my parents, and pray my kids don't go behind my back like this either. If your signature is not required, they best NOT be telling you ANYTHING, it's not ethical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 She could fall out of any car, but this one is just an accident waiting to happen. As I said in an above post, she gets a little off balance getting out of my parents' mini-van which sits far lower and has running boards. Faith So help her find a vehicle that works for her but don't talk her out of "no vehicle". 74 is hardly ancient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandra Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Who cares about the money! She is 74 years old with health issues. She shouldn't be driving!!! I always thank my lucky stars when I am at my local foodstore that no one was run over. People that can barely walk on their own (or barely walk with a walker), park crooked with their cars sticking out at odd angles and slowly make their way into the foodstore. Stop driving!! Several months ago an elderly women was being directed into a parking space by her caregiver and mixed up the brake and the gas. She killed the women in the parking lot of our local diner. End of my rant. but let me just say I would worry more about elderly folks driving than the loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 It bothers me so much because we conserve her savings by taking responsibility for a house we would have never purchased in a million years. We already put money we don't have into helping her keep that place. It seems morally wrong for her to buy a high priced vehicle, incur a payment, meanwhile dh is doing all of the upkeep and footing the bill. Neither of his sibs live close by (1200 and 1400 miles away) so if she falls, that's our responsibility too. She could fall out of any car, but this one is just an accident waiting to happen. As I said in an above post, she gets a little off balance getting out of my parents' mini-van which sits far lower and has running boards. I think we'd be crazy to believe she can get in and out of that jeep even if we put after-market boards on it. Of course, she'll be tapping out her immediate savings for the down payment and her other savings, not great but at least a small nest-egg, is a cd that won't mature for another six months. So guess who will get stuck with the running board bill. Of course, we could make the choice not to purchase the running boards or pay for the installation but knowing that she absolutely will get hurt without them, it begs the question as to whether or not that is a moral choice on our part. As to anyone thinking we are in the wrong to talk to her doctor, she is the one that signed us both on as her medical proxies and who encouraged us to stay in close contact with the doctor since her own mother had dementia (but not alzheimers) and she wants treatment at the first sign of trouble but as a former nurse, knows she won't recognize those symptoms in herself. It's not uncommon for me to end up at the doctor's office with her. So, since we've been given permission to express our concerns, I don't feel one bit guilty for doing it. The whole thing is just a huge mess. We found two perfectly wonderful used vehicles with low mileage, the right size, height, etc. that would not tap her savings out nor require a payment. But, her track history has always been to listen to her conniving grandaughter and equally disturbed daughter! Faith You helping to support her and her buying a new car would bother me. However, my dad just turned 74 and wants a new car. he's never purchased a used car in his life and has the assets to buy a car, but yes his insurance went up at 74. I agree 74 is hardly ancient, but even my mom (who is in excellent health) laughed at the idea of a 7 year loan. I think a 74 year old that has the money to buy, understand their limitations in driving, and is responsible in other ways should be able to buy a car. Of course, that would be true at any age. But if you're providing for some of her care and she doesn't recognize her limitations I'd be helping her find something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyK Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 You helping to support her and her buying a new car would bother me. That sounds like the real issue. It would bother me too. I guess I would name it to her as such. If it weren't for that, I don't think it would be your business. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 You helping to support her and her buying a new car would bother me. However, my dad just turned 74 and wants a new car. he's never purchased a used car in his life and has the assets to buy a car, but yes his insurance went up at 74. I agree 74 is hardly ancient, but even my mom (who is in excellent health) laughed at the idea of a 7 year loan. I think a 74 year old that has the money to buy, understand their limitations in driving, and is responsible in other ways should be able to buy a car. Of course, that would be true at any age. But if you're providing for some of her care and she doesn't recognize her limitations I'd be helping her find something else. I have one grandmother living in a very small town that is 87 and still driving, in a limited way in that small town. We helped her buy a different car about 4 years ago when her last one wore out. If the cost of this new vehicle is such an issue, Jeep Liberty has been on the market for several years now. I would personally offer to help her find a good used one for much less and then follow thru. Not my favorte vehicle, but we all like something different. She could then get the vehicle she wants and not spend so much money. If she is needing a car and thinking she wants a car, it is sounding like the only way to redirect her is to jump in and help somehow - but in a nonjudgemental and positive redirection somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Just a comment on the elderly and driving... My MIL is 83 this year. Still driving. We don't know HOW she keeps passing the test (here they start retesting drivers at 75? Something like that). She's run into lamp posts at the grocery store, etc. She's a horrible driver. We're scared to death that she'll end up killing someone. There's nothing we can do though. As long as she keeps passing the test, she can keep her licence. What's really frightening is that she takes a friend with her to read the street signs. She can't manage it on her own. That friend is now in palliative care...so what's she going to do now?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ME-Mommy Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Just a comment on the elderly and driving... My MIL is 83 this year. Still driving. We don't know HOW she keeps passing the test (here they start retesting drivers at 75? Something like that). She's run into lamp posts at the grocery store, etc. She's a horrible driver. We're scared to death that she'll end up killing someone. There's nothing we can do though. As long as she keeps passing the test, she can keep her licence. What's really frightening is that she takes a friend with her to read the street signs. She can't manage it on her own. That friend is now in palliative care...so what's she going to do now?! I hear ya... I don't believe Maine has retesting...other than a quick eye test at the DMV. ( Which is scary...) My MIL has severe health issues (and has had blood sugar readings in the 40s...when they "cycle" they "cycle" HUGE. She has had some readings in the 600s as well...the doctor won't do anything about her license.) We've talked to both the doctor and DMV -- and there is NOTHING we can do. Our hands are tied... We've resigned ourselves to the fact that she'll probably hurt/kill someone before it's over... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.