graduating early?

[marie33]

All of you have been sooo helpful...thank you!

 

What do you all say when people question about your children being ready to graduate high school and go into college at 12 years old?

 

My DS began reading at 2 years old, is now 4 and is reading at a 4th grade level, is capable of 3rd grade math and some additional higher math concepts, his love is geography and knows ALL the countries in the world, the states and their capitols. People are always asking me if I am "worried" about DS being ready for college at 12 or 13 years old. They ask me as if I'm the one driving him to advance and think that I should have a "plan" regarding his achievement level. Somebody mentioned something in the previous thread about being careful not to give gifted children "extra" work for finishing their assigned work early. How do you fill in then for your gifted children so that they are not graduating high school at 12??? And what are your responses when people "warn" you about your overly-advanced child, like it's a problem???

 

I know, so many questions...should they be separate threads? :tongue_smilie:

 

Thanks again in advance!

[KAR120C]

First, I would pretty much laugh off any worries people want you to have about such a young child. So much changes between four and twelve, you really can't spend now worried about then. I'm not saying they all level out or anything, but who knows what he'll be into in eight years and whether college will have anything to do with it.

 

Second, you never really run out of stuff to learn. The standard curriculum can be accelerated of course, but there's so much more out there... The not-giving-extra-work thing, in our house at least, doesn't reflect whole years as much as individual days. Once DS and I have agreed on a syllabus, I'm not going to dump more on him just because he's done for the day already, but it doesn't mean we confine ourselves to the standard scope and sequence. We add in things he's interested in (this year, Economics and Marine Biology), we add in things he wouldn't normally have a chance to do in PS (two languages), topics that aren't normally covered at all (Discrete Math)... We do a ridiculous amount of work here, but it's planned from the beginning of the year and he knows what's on his list for any given week. But if we restricted ourselves to the standard curriculum and gone as fast as we could, a) we'd have been done well before he was ready for college and b) it would have been DULL.

 

Third, on the "problem" of an advanced child... Sure, there are complications. But most of what people think is about a stereotype of advanced kids -- know it alls, or obnoxious snots, or kids with "stage parents" -- and you can pretty much just brush that off. I mean really - do they expect you to say "yes, I'm pushing him with no consideration for his interests or abilities"?? What I think people miss is that there's at least as much risk with pretending a kid is average when he isn't. When he's older you can add that you want him to be challenged so he can develop good work habits, but I think people will hear "pushing" in that with a four year old. For now maybe you could say how thrilled you are that he's interested in geography because there's so much interesting stuff he could learn over the years without having to go to college early.

 

(And then fourth - I have to say... early college isn't the end of the world! There are some excellent programs out there that allow kids to start on college work without the complications of being thrown into a dorm with 21 year olds. Currently it's not what I think will be best for DS, and I have plenty of options to fill our time in interesting and productive ways without college, but who knows - if the opportunity presented itself and he was interested it might become really attractive someday!)

[EKS]

You can't really predict when your child will graduate from high school when they're four, even if they've been reading since they were two and can do third grade math. Learning is not necessarily a linear process--for example, a child who could progress to high school level reading may not for a few years because his interest is with all the great children's literature that is written on a 4th-6th grade level. Being ready for algebra means not only having mastered arithmetic and being capable of the abstract thinking required, but also being mature enough and having the motor stamina to write out the solutions to problems. If these things are not in place, then moving to algebra may be delayed. Also, people frequently find that their gifted kids speed through the lower level stuff and then slow down to something resembling a (slightly) more normal pace as they get into middle or high school level material with the additional output demands.

 

Another thing that you need to be careful about when doing work that is intended for kids many years older is that you don't get too comfortable with any accommodations you are making because your child is younger. For example, a common accommodation is to allow the child to do most or all of the work orally. This is great but it should be always with an eye towards him eventually doing the work in a more standard way. Once a child is doing high school work *and getting high school credit for it*, he should be able to do that work in its entirety without accommodations (assuming he has no LDs). When you issue a grade and high school credit for a class, it doesn't just mean that the student understands the material to a certain level, but that he is able to produce the output that would be expected at that level. In my opinion it also means that he has the organizational ability of a high school student; Mom isn't orchestrating flashcard work or sitting with him for every problem. So even if the child understands high school level work at age 8, if he is unable to complete it without major accommodations for his age then it isn't credit worthy.

 

Of course it's your homeschool and you can run it any way you like. These are just my (very strong) opinions.

 

Also, graduating from high school in a homeschool setting does not only mean that a kid has done a certain amount of high school coursework. It can mean that he has done the coursework you prescribe until he is 17 or 18 or whenever you deem appropriate. That coursework can include college level materials and it can include non traditional areas of study.

 

 

All of this is to say that I wouldn't worry about it yet.

 

ETA: This doesn't mean that I don't think kids who are ready for high school level input should be made to wait, it's just that I think that high school credit should mean that the student met high school level input *and* output requirements *and* was able to do so without excessive organizational input from an adult.

Edited August 5, 2010 by EKS

[2smartones]

Them - "Aren't you worried about sending him to college when he's 12?"

 

Me (1) - "No."

 

Me (2) - "No. My husband and I have done plenty of research about it, but thanks for being so concerned. I appreciate it. Most people don't have the courage to ask such personal questions!"

 

Me (3) - (to someone obviously trying to stir up trouble) "No. I enjoy living vicariously through my kids and pushing them off the deep end toward a life of mental illness and shame." (Not that I've ever said that... but it would be funny to see the look on someone's face. :lol: )

[marie33]

Hilarious!!!

 

That WOULD be funny to see the look on someone's face! :lol:

 

You're right. I am being way too sensitive about it. :iagree:

 

It's actually kinda rude that others think they are "helping" you by pointing out what you're doing "wrong". Shows nothing much but ignorance.

 

I really am not that concerned that ds will be early in his grade levels. What are we expected to do? Hold them back? That wouldn't be fair, right? There is a reason God gave them these gifts. Why wouldn't we encourage their use? Silly spectators!

 

Thanks for your support! :001_smile:

[regentrude]

I can certainly understand that kids are ready to be working on college level material at age 12 (my DD is). Also, taking dual enrollment college classes as a teenager is a great educational resource which we will certainly be taking advantage of (maybe for college credit, maybe just auditing for HS credit).

However, a 12 y/o is not emotionally and socially mature enough to go away to College, and no college will accept such a young student unless she lives with her parents. (It is even difficult for a 16 y/o to go away to College; a student of mine started with 16, and her parents had to move to the university town because the school would not accept responsibility for housing an underage student.)

 

My kids would certainly be able to graduate several years early, but I do not see any benefit in it. I'd much rather have them spend 12 years learning things (and there will always be something more to learn, it's not that you are "finished" when you have enough credits to graduate from high school.) Then, in case they have covered college material, they can always test out, be exempt from the intro classes and are free to take additional classes at college. But why rush?

 

I am warned by the example of a friend's DD who, profoundly gifted, started full time college at age 15. She did not fit in socially, felt under a lot of pressure to be like the other girls who were several years older (like having a sexual relationship, for instance) and ended up developing so severe psychiatric problems that she had to drop out of school. What a waste of talent. It took her several years to recover and go back to earn a degree which is far below her intellectual potential.

So knowing her, I am extremely wary of accelerating my kids too far.

Agnes

[KAR120C]

However, a 12 y/o is not emotionally and socially mature enough to go away to College, and no college will accept such a young student unless she lives with her parents. (It is even difficult for a 16 y/o to go away to College; a student of mine started with 16, and her parents had to move to the university town because the school would not accept responsibility for housing an underage student.)

The PEG program at Mary Baldwin really does accept students that young without their parents. I'm quite sure it's not the right decision for most kids, but I can't say that's it not the right decision for some (extremely rare) kids.

[Embassy]

How do you fill in then for your gifted children so that they are not graduating high school at 12??? And what are your responses when people "warn" you about your overly-advanced child, like it's a problem???

 

 

There is no shortage of things to learn about. Tangents are endless. I don't plan to have my children graduate before age 18. They can do college level material whenever they want, but they will be in high school until they are 18.

 

We are going deep, broad, slow, and accelerated all at the same time. For instance we cover many more subjects than most people, but we sink deep into them and take a lot of time to absorb material. At the same time that material is not grade level - it is interest level.

 

No one has ever warned me though. I do use grade levels according to my kid's age rather than level so that might help the issue.

[regentrude]

The PEG program at Mary Baldwin really does accept students that young without their parents. I'm quite sure it's not the right decision for most kids, but I can't say that's it not the right decision for some (extremely rare) kids.

 

Are they in a separate program with extra chaperones, counselors, housing etc , or within the general student population? Somehow I have a very hard time imagining my 12 y/o sharing a dorm with 19 y/o ... I see all kinds of problems there.

 

Agnes

[KAR120C]

Are they in a separate program with extra chaperones, counselors, housing etc , or within the general student population? Somehow I have a very hard time imagining my 12 y/o sharing a dorm with 19 y/o ... I see all kinds of problems there.

 

Agnes

When I said above that early college can be done without being thrown in with 21 year olds, this is one of the programs I was thinking of. There are several others that start a little older... Mary Baldwin is the only one I know will take a 12 year old (the mom of one used to post here). Part of it might be that it's a women's college.

 

I'm not trying to argue that it's an easy thing, or that it's a good idea for most kids, but just to be careful about the blanket statements that no twelve year old is ready and that no college would allow it.

[regentrude]

Thanks Erica - I had never hear of a college that has a program for students this young. I looked it up and found it very interesting.

Of course I have a question: what happens to a 16 y/o who has finished her college degree? Does anybody know people who have completed this?

Agnes

[AK_Mom4]

If I had a 16yo who had finished her college degree, I would probably look at studying abroad or advanced study. Or maybe just taking a year off for travel and exploring other interests.

[Kathy in Richmond]

Thanks Erica - I had never hear of a college that has a program for students this young. I looked it up and found it very interesting.

Of course I have a question: what happens to a 16 y/o who has finished her college degree? Does anybody know people who have completed this?

Agnes

 

My daughter has a friend (summer Mathcamp mentor) who graduated from Mary Baldwin's PEG program. She went directly on to graduate school in mathematics at NYU and did quite well, earning her PhD, I believe. She works now in educational research and is involved with the administration of Canada/USA Mathcamp.

 

Dd talked to this woman about her experiences (at one point dd was considering PEG, too, but we decided not to pursue it). This woman was interested in math and music. For the most part she enjoyed PEG. The negative she mentioned to my daughter was that she quickly ran out of math courses at Mary Baldwin. Their solution was to outsource her math via courses like EPGY.

 

It is an intriguing program, though. Not all the girls start at age 12. It's more common to start at 14 or 15. For the first couple of years, they are required to live in a special PEG dormitory, after which they transition to the regular college dormitories. Mary Baldwin is an all girls college, by the way.

 

~Kathy

[kmacnchs]

I haven't read all of the responses so sorry if I am repeating...

 

I'll tell you what I have been told - go DEEP & WIDE! Instead of moving onto the next 'grade' in math, do 2 diff. 'advanced' math programs at once so each grade will take longer (ex. MEP & Singapore). Have the child spend more time on certain interests (science, for example?). They are some good suggestions from the forum over the years.

 

I CERTAINLY wouldn't worry about your child graduating at a certain time - a lot can happen by the time 12 rolls around. Also, I just found out our state has a "learn & earn" program so whenever your child reaches hs age, they can take college classes even at an early age... So, when the time rolls around, you can see if your state has some kind of dual enrollment like that...

 

hth!

[KAR120C]

Of course I have a question: what happens to a 16 y/o who has finished her college degree?

When we're talking about a kid starting college that young, we're talking about the most unusual combination of extraordinary aptitude, achievement, maturity, drive, etc. I don't know that you can make any generalizations about kids that uncommon. However... grad school seems like a likely choice, some employment opportunities would be fine then, all the same "gap year" possibilities that are open to kids that age who finish high school then (travel, volunteering, etc.)

 

I think if DS were 12 and heading to college, I'd encourage him to go with something really broad and interesting rather than specialized... liberal arts rather than a professional program. And after that maybe he'd want a second degree in something more practical. I don't know if he'd take the advice (and I wouldn't force it), but it seems like a good idea from my perspective.

[Bostonian]

 

I'll tell you what I have been told - go DEEP & WIDE! Instead of moving onto the next 'grade' in math, do 2 diff. 'advanced' math programs at once so each grade will take longer (ex. MEP & Singapore). Have the child spend more time on certain interests (science, for example?).

 

hth!

 

I earned a PhD in physics and studied a lot of math, and I disagree with this advice. Don't slow a kid down in math, because there is always more to learn if the interest is there. If a 12yo (say) masters calculus, he/she can move on to multivariable calculus, ordinary and partial differential equations, complex analysis, scientific computing, etc.

[2smartones]

I earned a PhD in physics and studied a lot of math, and I disagree with this advice. Don't slow a kid down in math, because there is always more to learn if the interest is there. If a 12yo (say) masters calculus, he/she can move on to multivariable calculus, ordinary and partial differential equations, complex analysis, scientific computing, etc.

:iagree: I don't think 18 is a magic number that we all suddenly become adults. I don't think all 21 year olds are able to handle alcohol. I don't think all 12 year olds need to be held back if college is their passion, either.

[catz]

 

Also, graduating from high school in a homeschool setting does not only mean that a kid has done a certain amount of high school coursework. It can mean that he has done the coursework you prescribe until he is 17 or 18 or whenever you deem appropriate. That coursework can include college level materials and it can include non traditional areas of study.

 

 

All of this is to say that I wouldn't worry about it yet.

 

ETA: This doesn't mean that I don't think kids who are ready for high school level input should be made to wait, it's just that I think that high school credit should mean that the student met high school level input *and* output requirements *and* was able to do so without excessive organizational input from an adult.

 

:iagree:

 

Totally agree with all of this. When the social, emotional, intellectual are all there, my kids can go away to college. Honestly, I'm not planning on that being before 18. They can do as much college from home as they want/need though early. I know we'll need that for my oldest in math for sure. We'll see where we are in a few years. Things can change. My oldest is suddenly interested in outside sports, etc.

 

Homeschooling gifted kids, I honestly feel like I have my hands full thinking about getting through the next year keeping them moving forward and engaged, but still have enough time to run around the yard and play. My kids actual academic level doesn't come up very often and if it does, usually it's a discussion with someone in similar circumstances.

[Guest Lightsource]

The general agreement is 12 is too early to go to college or to go away to college. Also, there are infinitely many things learn.

 

Just because 12 is to early to GO to college it is not too early to start college courses. Once a student has completed the high school level credits there are many online college courses. My children all went to college as either "freshman with Hours," which is any less than two years or as juniors.

Some students, depending on subject can finish all four years online, take the GRE and go right on to graduate school.

 

For what it is worth....

Kappy

Question Kappy.com and formerly of Westbridge Academy

Edited August 10, 2010 by Lightsource

[Guest isabelle]

The general agreement is 12 is too early to go to college or to go away to college.

 

 

Whose general agreement is that? I know of several children who entered college earlier than that and have done or are doing well. It's way too much of an individual decision to be brushed away with an over- generalized statemement. What works for yours doesn't have to be what works for others.

[Guest isabelle]

All of you have been sooo helpful...thank you!

 

What do you all say when people question about your children being ready to graduate high school and go into college at 12 years old?

 

 

Simply that, that my child graduated highschool and was ready to go to college. You don't have to justify your decisions to anyone, except maybe the other parent depending on family circumstances.

[Guest isabelle]

How do you fill in then for your gifted children so that they are not graduating high school at 12??? And what are your responses when people "warn" you about your overly-advanced child, like it's a problem???

 

There is not an end to learning, only ends to arbitrary levels that we as a society set - like elementary school, highschool, undergrad college. If you're homeschooling, you can call any level whatever you want. We've never filled in anything for our child. We just let him learn. When we decided that it was time for him to earn college credit for his learning, he applied to college.

 

As for responses, just tell them that your decisions about your child are personal and you don't wish to discuss it. You are not obligated to listen to or explain anything to anyone.

[Guest isabelle]

Here's another early college program for kids starting at 11 years.

 

http://www.calstatela.edu/academic/eep/index.php

[regentrude]

Whose general agreement is that? I know of several children who entered college earlier than that and have done or are doing well. It's way too much of an individual decision to be brushed away with an over- generalized statemement. What works for yours doesn't have to be what works for others.

 

When I wrote that I did not think a 12 year old was ready to go away to college I did not have in mind special programs where the 12 year olds are supervised, guided, separated - I was thinking of entering the regular college population. THAT, I believe, is NOT a good idea (and hardly possible) at age 12.

It is wonderful that there are opportunities for making the educational level available to young students. There are certainly young gifted students who can deal with the academic side, I have absolutely no doubt about that. What I doubt is that they could do so without the support structure that has been put in place specifically for them in those early entrance programs.

Does that make sense?

Agnes

[Donna]

There is not an end to learning, only ends to arbitrary levels that we as a society set - like elementary school, highschool, undergrad college. If you're homeschooling, you can call any level whatever you want. We've never filled in anything for our child. We just let him learn. When we decided that it was time for him to earn college credit for his learning, he applied to college.

 

As for responses, just tell them that your decisions about your child are personal and you don't wish to discuss it. You are not obligated to listen to or explain anything to anyone.

 

:iagree: There is so much that can be learned. In school, there is a set curriculum to finish high school then go to college with very little room for deviation but when homeschooling you can go way beyond that set curriculum and cover so many more subject areas or go as deep as you want in any particular subject areas of interest. It isn't like you are twiddling your thumbs or looking for things for a child to learn as a filler between high school level and college.

 

When your child is very young, it is very easy for people to see how advanced they are. Seeing a 3-4 yo reading well, many people comment. As they get older, their advancement isn't as "noticeable" unless you go around telling people about it. When mine were very young the "useless" comments occurred regularly but now that they are older I enjoy the fact that no one notices as much. All 7-8 year olds read and do math and they aren't walking around regularly reading high school level texts or doing algebra in front of people. Someone who knows one of the kids or who talks to them for an extended length of time might later tell me they are intelligent but I never bring up what they are doing school-wise...all I have to do is say, "Thank you" and move on.

[mum]

My ds did comm. college class on a campus when he was 12. He had a great time and no problems. He's talking of a year off when he finishes high school early, to work, and take some fun college classes-auto shop, etc. He'll be well rounded. Read SWB's blog on her son's 'gap' year. It's very interesting.

[Beth in OH]

Jenny in Florida (from the High School Board) had a daughter who graduated at 12 and began the Mary Baldwin program at 13. I'm not sure if she still hangs out here, but you might search for her posts to see what she had to say about the experience of a greatly accelerated child.

 

Beth

[scrapbookbuzz]

I happen to have a friend who's son will be doing exactly what you're asking about! He will graduate from high school at the age of 12. He's now 10 and will be doing 10th grade work this year. The GOOD advice they were given was to NOT hold him back, that would just frustrate him. She has him in a homeschool co-op this year for most of his classes. Thankfully there are students in our homeschool group that have had him in classes there before and they sort of 'adopted' him. :^)

 

You know, there is nothing wrong with an accelerated learner. I think people 'caution' out of jealousy and maybe a subconscious fear. Usually people react negatively to something they don't understand. Most people don't 'get' anyone that's different from them.

 

I happen to have two kids, both of whom are 'different'. I have a 6yo son who reads at about a 3rd grave level now and can do a good portion of 2nd grade math. And, I have a 12yo daughter with Asperger's Syndrome. Are my kids different? You bet! Is there something "wrong" with them? Not at all! God made them who they are for a reason and the adventure is helping them figure out what that reason is.

 

As for extra work, don't make it busy work. Let him go 'deeper' into a subject that fascinates him. You'll both have a lot more fun, and less stress, that way! HTH!