Child support while still married??

[Mommamia]

My girlfriend recently shared that to avoid creditors taking her dh's income her dh is paying her child support each month. Basically, she gets all his income, but in the form of child support so that the banks/credit card companies can't touch the money.

 

Can you actually be married and receive child support from your husband?

I'm having some red flag thoughts about some things she has shared....that being one of them:001_huh:

 

Please educate me.

[AuntieM]

Who has deemed it "child support" payments? Doesn't it take a court action to set those in place? I don't think he can just write her a check and decide to call it child support just cause he feels like it. With that definition, every husband pays child support!

 

I'd call it a red flag, too. Maybe your friend needs a sincere heart-to-heart.

[FaithManor]

I would imagine that this would depend on the state. In Michigan, as long as they are legally married, this would be considered joint marital property and as such, the only way to hide it under "child support" would be to lie and say there was a divorce and he is paying her. However, I would think that if a credit agency or bank wanted to verify the information, it would be pretty easy to do so as divorces are a matter of public record.

 

Ethically, its wrong. Though I don't necessarily agree with some of the bullying tactics allowed by collections agencies and banks, they do have a right to recoup their losses and "hiding income" is morally wrong and in many cases, illegal.

 

But, again, each state has their own divorce/child support/collection laws and so it might be legal for him to claim that he has to pay her "x" dollars per month. However, I doubt that it would be legal to call his entire income "child support". Divorcees do not have to give 100% of their income to the custodial ex-spouse.

 

Faith

[Mommamia]

I keep wondering if they are really divorced, but pretending to be married.

Hmmm?

[MagnaSky]

Maybe they have never been married to each other in the first place.

[phathui5]

Are they still living together? That seems very strange.

[eternalknot]

Legally separated?

[Mommamia]

They are living together with their children. They wear wedding rings and state that they are married. I'm totally perplexed. She said that instead of filing bankrupt they have stopped paying their credit cards and the husband is paying the wife child support(almost his whole income). The child support protects the money from the creditors.

 

What irks me is that they seem to be very wealthy with a full bank account....yet they are not paying credit card bills. They live a very wealthy lifestyle.

 

This is a new friend to me, my anti-trust flag has gone up.

[angela in ohio]

They are living together with their children. They wear wedding rings and state that they are married. I'm totally perplexed. She said that instead of filing bankrupt they have stopped paying their credit cards and the husband is paying the wife child support(almost his whole income). The child support protects the money from the creditors.

 

What irks me is that they seem to be very wealthy with a full bank account....yet they are not paying credit card bills. They live a very wealthy lifestyle.

 

This is a new friend to me, my anti-trust flag has gone up.

 

I would bet that they are living as married, but not legally so. It's more common than you might think. It is used to defraud the IRS, creditors, etc. Dh and I jokingly talk about how rich we would be if we got divorced, and I used a different address on paper. I saw it all the time when I did income tax preparation.

 

I would run far, far away.

[Mommamia]

I've been thinking "run far away" too! The sad thing is that we are new to our area and they are our only homeschool friends. I'm fooling myself though, she is not truly a friend. Friendship needs honesty.

She definitely pretends that they are living an amazing life...always on the go, always happy and bubbly, constantly buying new things. I usually leave our playdates feeling discouraged and boring.

[Rhea]

I would bet that they are living as married, but not legally so. It's more common than you might think. It is used to defraud the IRS, creditors, etc. Dh and I jokingly talk about how rich we would be if we got divorced, and I used a different address on paper. I saw it all the time when I did income tax preparation.

 

I would run far, far away.

 

:ohmy: The things I learn on this forum.

[melissel]

They are living together with their children. They wear wedding rings and state that they are married. I'm totally perplexed. She said that instead of filing bankrupt they have stopped paying their credit cards and the husband is paying the wife child support(almost his whole income). The child support protects the money from the creditors.

 

What irks me is that they seem to be very wealthy with a full bank account....yet they are not paying credit card bills. They live a very wealthy lifestyle.

 

This is a new friend to me, my anti-trust flag has gone up.

 

Yes, run. Don't even try to figure that situation out, just walk away. They do not sound like the kind of people you want influencing your family!

[plansrme]

I would bet that they are living as married, but not legally so. It's more common than you might think. It is used to defraud the IRS, creditors, etc. Dh and I jokingly talk about how rich we would be if we got divorced, and I used a different address on paper. I saw it all the time when I did income tax preparation.

 

I would run far, far away.

 

It is not illegal, nor is it fraud, to present yourselves as a married couple in a spiritual sense, i.e., to friends and family, but not be legally married. Unless one lives in a state that recognizes common law marriage, it can be an excellent, completely legal way for a two-income family to avoid what can be a very substantial marriage tax. This is relatively common among retirees who are remarrying after being widowed or divorced, not just young two-income couples.

 

This is not an opinion on what the OP mentioned, which is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish.

 

Terri

[Caraway]

It is not illegal, nor is it fraud, to present yourselves as a married couple in a spiritual sense, i.e., to friends and family, but not be legally married. Unless one lives in a state that recognizes common law marriage, it can be an excellent, completely legal way for a two-income family to avoid what can be a very substantial marriage tax. This is relatively common among retirees who are remarrying after being widowed or divorced, not just young two-income couples.

 

This is not an opinion on what the OP mentioned, which is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish.

 

Terri

 

I took the comment to be about people who are legally married and say that they aren't or people who aren't legally married and say that they are in order to obtain benefits that they otherwise wouldn't be entitled to based on their LEGAL status.

[mycalling]

I've never heard of this. :bigear: Subbing to see if this is confirmed as possible...not that I'd do it! It's just too odd not to be nosy about it.:D

[Karis]

The things people do!!

 

It's a scam. A way to "get over."

 

Legal? Sure.

 

Ethical...?? :001_huh: :glare:

 

But it sounds like she shared this info. in confidence.

 

Yes, she's anonymous to us but would she appreciate you discussing it?

 

She should've kept her personal household business to herself.

 

In any case, she talks too much. If she readliy shares her own business, she'll share yours, too.

[Mommamia]

The things people do!!

 

It's a scam. A way to "get over."

 

Legal? Sure.

 

Ethical...?? :001_huh: :glare:

 

But it sounds like she shared this info. in confidence.

 

Yes, she's anonymous to us but would she appreciate you discussing it?

 

She should've kept her personal household business to herself.

 

In any case, she talks too much. If she readliy shares her own business, she'll share yours, too.

 

Did I just get chastised for asking an anonymous question? How is my anonymous question any different from any other anonymous question on this board? People are posting questions about neighborhood kids...neighbors....other families...work questions....mother in laws...etc.

Anyway....back to life.

[AuntieM]

Did I just get chastised for asking an anonymous question? How is my anonymous question any different from any other anonymous question on this board? People are posting questions about neighborhood kids...neighbors....other families...work questions....mother in laws...etc.

Anyway....back to life.

 

Don't you worry about your question for a single minute! This forum is the safest and kindest way for you to validate your concerns. Much better than running about town dropping her name in a bad light.

 

I do think, though, that if you want this friendship to go forward, you are going to have to ask her some direct questions.

[Mommamia]

Auntie M-Thank you! I appreciate your kind reply. Actually, I did ask her some specific questions last time we were together. She seems to have an answer for everything. I have already realized that we are not meant to hang out. It's not a positive experience. I will continue to be kind and welcoming to her, but I will not initiate any playdates etc. I actually feel really sorry for her.

[Catwoman]

Run and hide! :auto:

 

This woman doesn't seem like the kind of person who would make a good friend. She sounds like she's almost proud of her dishonesty, and that's not someone you could ever, ever trust.

 

I wouldn't want her in my home, and I wouldn't want to be her friend. It sounds like she only wants to be "friends" so she can brag about her supposedly exciting life. If you're not acting suitably impressed and envious, she probably won't want to be "friends" for much longer, anyway.

 

I agree with the previous poster who said that the woman and her family would be a bad influence on your family. There are plenty of nice people around; why waste your time with someone who is blatantly dishonest (and possibly criminal, if it's true that she's intentionally defrauding her creditors.)

 

Cat

[plansrme]

I took the comment to be about people who are legally married and say that they aren't or people who aren't legally married and say that they are in order to obtain benefits that they otherwise wouldn't be entitled to based on their LEGAL status.

 

No, the comment to which I was responding was quite the opposite, about people who present themselves as married but are not. There are very few benefits available to married couples that are not available to singles: depending upon one's employer, possibly health insurance; and depending on your respective earning histories, possibly Social Security survivor's benefits. Unmarried individuals can contract for most of the other marital benefits, such as preferential treatment under inheritance laws.

 

Two-earner married couples pay a substantial marriage penalty in their taxes and do not get much in return. I know what it costs me to be married, so I am sympathetic to those who take advantage of the distinction between spiritual and legal marriage.

 

Again, this does not appear to be what was going on in the original post, and I am not defending people who lie about their legal status. It just irks me to see a perfectly legal and eminently sensible tax-reduction technique called fraud. Not liking it doesn't make it illegal, though there seems to be a lot of that going around the board today.

 

Terri

[skirch]

I keep wondering if they are really divorced, but pretending to be married.

Hmmm?

 

It's a possibility. I used to work with a woman who lived with her ex husband. To retain health benefits through our employer she said they were married but they had actually been divorced at least 10 years at the time.

[Catwoman]

It just irks me to see a perfectly legal and eminently sensible tax-reduction technique called fraud. Not liking it doesn't make it illegal, though there seems to be a lot of that going around the board today.

 

I was not aware that a husband was legally allowed to pay child support payments to his current wife (with whom he lives and from whom he is not legally separated) to protect that money from creditors.

 

If that is legal, I would like to see some documentation to prove it, as it seems inherently wrong to me.

 

Thanks!

 

Cat

 

PS. I didn't mean to sound confrontational -- I would just really like to know! :)

[angela in ohio]

Again, this does not appear to be what was going on in the original post, and I am not defending people who lie about their legal status. It just irks me to see a perfectly legal and eminently sensible tax-reduction technique called fraud. Not liking it doesn't make it illegal, though there seems to be a lot of that going around the board today.

 

Terri

 

Well, in the case of the poster, it sounds like they are doing it to defraud creditors. When most people do it to the IRS, one of them also lies about their legal address in an attempt to receive EIC that they do not actually qualify for (though the law on that one has changed a bit since I worked.) They would do the same for other state benefits. Also, as a pp said, some claim to be married when it benefits them (insurance) and then claim not to be at other times. I said: "it is used to defraud," as it is part of a bigger web of deceit. I didn't say that all who do it are defrauding someone.

 

If people don't like the tax burden on married folks, they should vote out the jerks who support it.

 

In reality, though, many married couples itemize deducation and thus see little penalty for being married. Our legal married status is actually a benefit to us as we are now (unless I lied about dh's financial support and/or where I live, which is what people do.)

[plansrme]

I was not aware that a husband was legally allowed to pay child support payments to his current wife (with whom he lives and from whom he is not legally separated) to protect that money from creditors.

 

If that is legal, I would like to see some documentation to prove it, as it seems inherently wrong to me.

 

Thanks!

 

Cat

 

PS. I didn't mean to sound confrontational -- I would just really like to know! :)

 

If you follow the posts back, you will see that this situation is not what I am defending. My defense was of couples who are not legally married for tax reasons, which was called "fraud" by another poster but is perfectly legal. So no, I do not have documentation to defend something I am not defending.

 

Terri

[Catwoman]

If you follow the posts back, you will see that this situation is not what I am defending. My defense was of couples who are not legally married for tax reasons, which was called "fraud" by another poster but is perfectly legal. So no, I do not have documentation to defend something I am not defending.

 

Terri

 

Terri, I'm sorry I misunderstood your post -- I thought you were speaking about the couple the OP mentioned, and as I understood it, that couple is supposedly married. I didn't think anyone had said it was fraud to not be legally married for tax reasons; I thought they were talking about the type of things the OP had talked about, like the "child support" payments and intentionally not paying their bills.

 

I guess it's time to re-read this thread and pay more attention this time!

 

Cat

[angela in ohio]

I didn't think anyone had said it was fraud to not be legally married for tax reasons; I thought they were talking about the type of things the OP had talked about, like the "child support" payments and intentionally not paying their bills.

 

 

You are correct.

[plansrme]

I didn't think anyone had said it was fraud to not be legally married for tax reasons; I thought they were talking about the type of things the OP had talked about, like the "child support" payments and intentionally not paying their bills.

 

That's what prompted my defense of legitimate, legal tax-planning strategies.

 

Terri

[Joanne]

It's simple, and it's fraud. They either never married or they filed a paper divorce. Either way, she had to sue him for child support, represent in some legal capacity a lack of maritial\cohabitating status.

 

He likely uses a friend's or relative's address for related legal filings and paper trail.

 

I had a daycare do this so the family benefited financially.

[Karis]

Did I just get chastised for asking an anonymous question? How is my anonymous question any different from any other anonymous question on this board? People are posting questions about neighborhood kids...neighbors....other families...work questions....mother in laws...etc.

Anyway....back to life.

 

 

OP - I honestly apologize if it came across that way.

 

When I first read your post I thought you said she was a girlfriend. And as a friend shared this with you. I've read the other posts so now I have a better perspective of the nature or your relationship with her.

 

But I was saying "be wary."

[Mommamia]

Karis-Thanks for clarifying. I think I used the word "girlfriend" too loosely. She's a person I met a few months ago...more than an acquintance. Anyway, no worries.....I think there was a bit of miscommunication throughout the post:001_smile:

 

I did learn a lot through this post, thank you all! I'm guessing that they got a quiet divorce and will marry when this situation blows over. Wow.

[Tap]

I knew of a family who lived as married but were not. The wife collected welfare, state insurance, food stamps and 'child support' from the husband. He lived there, but listed a different legal address. They did this to purposefully keep her in a low income status, to use those benefits as well as his. :glare:

[Renee in NC]

I knew of a family who lived as married but were not. The wife collected welfare, state insurance, food stamps and 'child support' from the husband. He lived there, but listed a different legal address. They did this to purposefully keep her in a low income status, to use those benefits as well as his. :glare:

 

I know someone who did that as well and the husband ended up with a felony fraud conviction. It happens a lot, though, and is VERY frustrating!

[Denisemomof4]

They are living together with their children. They wear wedding rings and state that they are married. I'm totally perplexed. She said that instead of filing bankrupt they have stopped paying their credit cards and the husband is paying the wife child support(almost his whole income). The child support protects the money from the creditors.

 

What irks me is that they seem to be very wealthy with a full bank account....yet they are not paying credit card bills. They live a very wealthy lifestyle.

 

This is a new friend to me, my anti-trust flag has gone up.

 

my sister and her husband are like this. All I'll say is they will do ANYTHING in the name of money. THey have lived beyond their means for 23 years, it's caught up, and although it disgusts me, our TEENY extended family (used to be my parents and aunt, now only aunt) and periodically HIS family give them money. And then they take a trip to Disney. :001_huh: They claimed bankruptcy and then asked our lawyer how to hide what little money the'll be getting from my parent's trust. The lawyer told us she didn't want to deal with them.

 

I hate people like that. Who ends up paying for it? Who does without, pays all their bills on time, etc., and then this? I have a dear friend who made some bad investments trying to get a business started. She and her dh's HUGE credit card bill went up by hundreds per month because of all the bankruptcy's, and now they are struggling to keep their family of 7 afloat. We got 5k from a family member as did my sister. She's on the verge of her house being foreclosed on and they took the money and went on vacation. And I'm SURE they all got new clothes from that. Oh, I could go on and on.:rant:

 

Be careful what you share with this friend.

[mycalling]

 

I know someone who did that as well and the husband ended up with a felony fraud conviction. It happens a lot, though, and is VERY frustrating!

Was the woman punished at all?:glare:

[Renee in NC]

Was the woman punished at all?:glare:

 

No. I don't know all the details, but only he was prosecuted. This has been 15 years ago, though, so today it may be different.