Hi there and Oh! Please Help me with Webster's Syllabary.

[Guest Missy]

Hi there,

I've been poking around here for a few weeks as this forum seems to be the place on the web for figuring out how to use Webster's Syllabary. But before I start with my question ...

 

Hi. I'm Missy, wife to one DH and mum to four kiddos aged 11, 9, 7 and almost 5 (yikes!). I live on a lovely little hectare in NSW and enjoy my garden and milking my cow. We're fairly eclectic as homeschoolers go, using a bit of this and a bit of that, whatever works...

 

And so to my problem. Please, I'm hoping someone can help me with some questions about Webster's Syllabary.

 

I have a struggling 9 year old reader and a 7 year old who tends towards whole word reading no matter how much or how hard I drill her in phonics! Anyway, my research has lead me to believe I ought to try Webster's syllabary with them both for different reasons (and my 11 year old to improve his spelling) but I am stuck! Really stuck.

 

I have watched the videos of how to pronounce the syllabary and have started teaching the kids the tables, but as I flick through the Speller I end up in pronunciation trouble ... I will try to illustrate, please excuse the poor communication that is about to come ....

 

OK, so for example:

 

sediment - se di ment. I think the syllabary would teach me to say "sea - die - ment". But here in Australia no one would know what you were talking about if you said that - we say sed - a - ment. (say it fast)

 

or

 

intamacy - in ti ma cy. I think the syllabary would pronounce this "in - tie - may - sigh". But here in Aus it's "in - t(ah) - m(uh) - sea".

 

 

So, clear as mud? Am I doing something wrong here or is this just an issue of pronunciation that's different between cultures and accents?

 

Most words seem to follow ok for their pronunciation in Australia, but what about those words that just don't seem to fit. I was hoping that Webster's would allow me a good degree of regularity in spelling and reading where I didn't have to teach the children too many exceptions. But the more I look into the Syllabary the more exceptions I seem to be finding. I certainly don't want to teach my kids something that's going to end up making reading harder for them.

 

Is there someone who can help? Any Aussies out there who have experienced the same issue? Is it just me?

 

Thank you so much in advance for your help,

an ever hopeful but potentially despairing, Missy :confused:

[nansk]

Ha! Ha! I never looked at the words like that.

 

If you read the note at the start of Table 4 (the table where multi-syllabic words begin), you will see that the syllable which is in bold is stressed/emphasized and the rest of the syllables are usually schwa-d (unaccented - pronounced with the 'uh' sound).

 

So in the word 'se di ment', the 'di' will be pronounced as 'duh' and the 'ment' will be pronounced somewhat like 'munt'.

 

And the word 'in ti ma cy' appears in Table 9 under the note "easy words of four syllables, full accent on the first and half accent on the third". So the 'ti' would be pronounced as 'tuh' and (i think) the 'ma' is pronounced as 'may' in American English. The 'cy' - I am not sure how to explain that, but in Table 24 there is a note that says "The terminations ty, ry and ly, have very little accent." So that might explain it.

 

HTH

Edited August 3, 2010 by nansk

[Guest Missy]

Ok, thanks nansk. It wasn't making sense to pronounce all those syllables so strongly.

 

Now I'll just have to go figure out what on earth a "schwa" is!!! :001_huh:

[Martha in GA]

I'm not sure if Webster has the same rule, but when I was using the Spell to Write and Read, they mention that an "i" at the end of the syllable may or may not be long. Also, because I was curious, I looked up "sediment" in my dictionary, and it is broken up as "sed*i*ment," which would explain the short "e" in the first syllable. I'm not terribly familiar with the Webster Syllabary, though, so I don't know if this information actually applies...

 

Martha

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Please see my posts on this thread and ElizabethB's web site:001_smile:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154227

 

She has phonics instruction movies and spelling movie lessons for free on the phonics web page link in my posts.

 

 

Here is some info on the schwa:

http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000383.htm

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Here is a great table ElizabethB has on sight words and their phonetic pronunciation:

 

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/Resources/sight%20words%20by%20sound.pdf

[ElizabethB]

We just moved, so I'm still a bit busy with that, but here is a quick note about the schwa from Webster himself:

 

When the stress of voice falls on a vowel, it is necessarily long, and is marked by the figure 1. When the stress of voice falls on a consonant, the preceding vowel is necessarily short, and is marked by figure 2.

 

No figures are placed over the vowels in unaccented syllables, because they are short. It must be observed, however, that in unaccented terminating syllables, almost all vowels are pronounced like i and u. Thus,

 

al is pronounced ul, , rural rurul, et it, fillet fillit.

 

This is the general rule in the language: originating doubtlessly from this cause, that the short i and u are pronounced with a less aperture or opening of the mouth, with less exertions of the organs, and consequently with more ease than the other vowels in these terminating syllables; for in order to pronounce them right, nothing more is required than to lay a proper stress of the voice on the accented syllable, and pronounce the unaccented syllables with more ease and rapidity. When any of these terminations are accented, and some of them are, the vowel retains its own sound; as, compel, lament, depress, &c.

 

 

And this explains the y at the end (again, from the speller)

 

In general, when a vowel in an unaccented syllable stands alone or ends a syllable*, it has its first sounds as in protect: yet as we do not dwell upon the vowel, it is short and weak. When the vowel, in such syllable is joined to a consonant, it has its second sound; as address.

*But if a vowel unaccented ends the word, it has its second sound, as in city.

 

 

 

Have you tried some nonsense words with your 7 year old? My game makes nonsense and real words, that usually helps.

[Rosie_0801]

Now I'll just have to go figure out what on earth a "schwa" is!!! :001_huh:

 

It's when you mumble vowel, not bothering to pronounce it properly. As you said, we don't pronounce sediment as sed-i-ment, but sed-uh-mnt. Turning the i to uh is "schwa-ing" it, and the almost absence of vowel between the m and the n in -mnt is a schwa. Speaking at normal speed, you don't really hear it, but if you pronounce it as you usually do, but slower, you'll find it in there.

 

Welcome the the board from one Aussie to another ;)

 

Rosie

Edited August 7, 2010 by Rosie_0801

[Guest Missy]

Thanks for that Elizabeth and Rosie, I will continue to look into all of this!

 

Hey Rosie, thanks for the welcome. Haven't seen you around on AussieHomeschool for a while, hope all is well.

 

Missy

[Rosie_0801]

 

Hey Rosie, thanks for the welcome. Haven't seen you around on AussieHomeschool for a while, hope all is well.

 

Missy

 

 

I got poached and have transfered my allegience to the Rockpool. ;)

 

Rosie