As the twig is bent, so grows the tree (a reflection on parenting babies)

[kalanamak]

I was at a retirement potluck yesterday, and a pair of 5 month-old twins was there. Mom, Mom's bf (not father of the children), GF, and GM were there. In the whole 3 hours the held babies were often fussy, and Mom and GM spent a good deal of time jiggling babies on their knees while sitting in lawn chairs.

 

I did about a half-hour stint with the little girl. Since no toys or rattles or anything had been brought, I found things like a colorful paper plate with flamingos on it, held it up and talked to baby about it. The whole time I had, she was not fussy in the least, but was engrossed in the items I held up. She started sucking her hand something fierce, and when I inquired if she might be hungry, GM informed me she was an hour away from feeding time, and that she must be teething.

 

Soon after Mom, who was in her 20's and not a smiley person (had glum expression whole time), came over and asked for her bundle of love, and I handed baby over, who started fussing shortly thereafter. Later when I offered to help her move some things or hold baby so she could move them, she glared and walked off to get someone else to help. I didn't get her space again.

 

Really, without words said, it seemed as though she was resentful that baby was bright eyed and interactive with me and whiny with her and GM. I hope, for the sake of those baby's brains, she lets her displeasure go and see that holding up *something* for baby to devour with her eyes and little fists, that whispering PINK as baby focuses on an item of that color is a better way of coping with a "fussy" baby. She was obviously dedicating much time to the babies, jiggling, jiggling, jiggling, and didn't really know anyone there, so it wasn't as if she was absorbed in chitchat. If you're just going to sit, why not interact? I felt so sorry about those little brains trying, trying, trying to get something of interest in their reach.

[Mothersweets]

It hurts to see someone neglecting ( ok, maybe not neglecting but not putting forth any extra effort) their babies, doesn't it? I realize people parent differently and all, but it still bugs me when people are like that.

[Penelope]

maybe she is depressed?

 

maybe she was up all night with them and just not talking much that day?

 

I really try not to judge from one interaction. I wouldn't assume she doesn't engage with them or that they don't get enough stimulation. She's a single mom of TWINS 5 months postpartum.

[HollyDay]

"why not interact" That statement really speaks volumes!

 

How many times have you been in a restaurant and the dc are ignored while the adults chat? 2 weeks ago, the table near us had a dvd for the baby and hand held games for the dc. This wasn't a long wait restaurant either. No interaction.

 

I was at a long stop light last Christmas beside a SUV full of folks that left Target the same time I did. The mom/driver was on the cell phone; dc in front seat had earbud headphones and was looking out the opposite window; younger dc were in the back watching a dvd. We followed this SUV all the way to the subdivision prior to ours - maybe 15 min drive from Target. We sang Christmas carols and laughed and talked the whole way. They "unplugged"

[kalanamak]

maybe she is depressed?

 

maybe she was up all night with them and just not talking much that day?

 

I really try not to judge from one interaction. I wouldn't assume she doesn't engage with them or that they don't get enough stimulation. She's a single mom of TWINS 5 months postpartum.

 

GM and BF did the same thing. GM is heavily involved with care, and she lives with BF, who, an hour later, fed one of them quite confidently. I think it is a familial trait, in that I've worked with GF and GM. The world of people, if well-fed and a roof over head, lapse into apathy. The babies were fighting it, though.:)

[nmoira]

I wouldn't presume to judge a mother of 5mo twins, especially without knowing how much sleep she'd had the night(s) before.

[NorthwestMom]

I wouldn't presume to judge a mother of 5mo twins, especially without knowing how much sleep she'd had the night(s) before.

 

:iagree:

 

 

A single of mother of infant twins is exhausted in ways that those of us without multiples cannot begin to imagine. Give her some grace.

[Pretty in Pink]

IDK...maybe she isn't comfortable in crowds or with strangers (you said she didn't really know anybody). Maybe she was tired. Maybe her natural expression just doesn't look very inviting.

 

Maybe the parents at the restaurant with the kids with the gameboys needed a break. Maybe they needed some adult interaction for a change. I'm sure we all know what that's like.

 

Maybe the kid in the car had a new MP3 player. Maybe he wasn't interested in chatting with mom at the moment. Adolescents do so enjoy their quiet time.

 

Who among us knows, really?

[kalanamak]

IDK...maybe she isn't comfortable in crowds or with strangers (you said she didn't really know anybody). Maybe she was tired. Maybe her natural expression just doesn't look very inviting.

 

 

My point wasn't Mom. She spent little time holding the babies (the boy stayed with GM the whole party and the girl was passed to BF and GF). It just seemed the whole group of 4 grownups sat and jiggled fussy babies (although a few times they tried to get the kids into those portable carseat thingies, and each time the kids hollared at being put down) and not once in 3 hours did I see anything held up for the baby to near enough to focus on or touch, not once did I see one "eaten up" or even lifted to look into the face of the holder who could then say "who is that pretty baby". No lifting and soaring, not even any standing on the lap with a good hand under each armpit (and the girl was a GOOD stander and bobber). It was as if they were jiggling bags of potatoes.

 

After I figured out who the babies belonged to (it was confusing because babies were bi-racial and Mom and BF are Caucasian), the Mom's countenance was not surprising. GM is not warm, either. Always groans and oh-no, and ugh at work. Very negative. But surely holding a simple colorful plate up and having an infant stop all fussing and gaze at it is simpler than jiggling, and shifting legs, and trading holders, etc. to deal with fussy babies? What they did looked very exhausting!

 

Now that I think of it, Mom could have been angry because GM told her to come over and get baby because I'd "complained" (when I asked if baby might be hungry because she was sucking her fist). Prior to that, everyone seemed content that I hold the baby for 30+ minutes. (Was nice to get some baby-time in!!)

[Jean in Newcastle]

Let's take these particular people out of the equation. Wouldn't you agree in principle, that interacting with babies and children is a good idea? Unfortunately not everyone does agree with that in practice. And I'm talking about the majority of the time - not just when the parents are particularly harried or lacking in sleep.

 

Different people put this into practice in different ways too. Some interact with baby talk, baby videos (think Baby Einstein), teaching baby to read. . . Some interact with toys that come in complex textures and colors and even bells and whistles. Some interact with toys that are all "green" and made out of organic materials in order to make the interaction all that much more safe. Some interact with lots of words and books with nary a bell or whistle present unless it is an actual bell and an actual whistle.

 

How did you interact with baby? We went with "analog" toys that weren't all green because of cost, but were interesting and open ended. And while I did lots of folk and nursery songs and finger plays, I did not use baby talk.

 

Kay - you sound like you take something akin to my approach where you give the baby input and look for input from baby too (like signs of hunger).

[AMDG]

Both of my babies have been fussy from birth until over a year old. Needless to say, no one ever wanted to hold my baby boys, and I was so gracious when dear friends and family insisted on taking my bundles so I could take a shower, go out for coffe, or visit when at a family gathering.

 

So...thank you for giving a busy and probably overwhelmed mom (and GM)a break!

 

My high-needs infants needed CONSTANT stimulation, and if they weren't stimulated, they fussed. So, every.single.day.all.day.long it was me entertaining the infants. But, honestly, if I had moment of adult interaction at an event, I think I would put the infant stimulation on the back burner for a few hours, knowing they get it all day from me. Maybe that was the mom's logic?

[lmrich]

I know where you are coming from. I have attended meetings (adults and lap babies only allowed) where the parent brought nothing for the baby. Even young ones can learn to entertain themselves with proper stimulating toys. I get a little grossed out when mom hands the baby her car keys. It really isn't that hard to pack a rattle or a board book. I really wish the parenting classes were more attended.

[kalanamak]

I think I would put the infant stimulation on the back burner for a few hours, knowing they get it all day from me. Maybe that was the mom's logic?

 

That all sat like lumps themselves. Mom was quiet, BF knew no one, GM is always a sourpuss, and GF is quiet around them. (Away from them is funny and fun).

 

Baby was not the least fussy the moment I put something in front of her to gaze and wonder at. You know the look. Baby's eyes get wide and her rolling head is cocked forward, and she strains to keep it very still so she can LOOK at something, so deeply, with such amazement, and then the beating arms for a few seconds, with a crow, and then still again, staring, staring. I had 40 seconds of fussing when she was sucking her fist, and that was distracted by singing La Cucaracha in her ear.

 

My point is that they were absorbed the WHOLE time jiggling babies, and tried nothing else but jiggling. Not one toy in three hours? Not one word spoken to baby? I watched closer and closer as the day pulled on, and it was like a row of unhappy robots jiggling babies that were crying for interaction. It was very depressing, and it made me feel very sorry for those babies' brains. That was a normal girl who wanted to try her legs and bat at colors, not be held the whole time in a recline, off her feet with nothing to hold or push against, and a view of GM's chin and the trees above, or over the shoulder to look at the webbing of the lawn chair and a high brown fence. If she could talk, she'd have said "I'm not a month old anymore, I'm 5 months old!!"

 

We have such good mothers here, they can't imagine anyone would do this "without a good excuse". Since I know GM dominates, and made it very clear to me the child would NOT be eating until 2.5 hours after the last feeding, perhaps she doesn't believe in "spoiling them", and everyone was cowing to her style. But I'm guessing. My mother was very Germanic and probably older than this GM's mother, and she didn't "feed on schedule", being a believer in the intrinsic wisdom of natural systems and the folly of human ones. Perhaps this GM, who is stepping up for this young mother, is putting a rather stereotypical Old World upbringing on them. Who knows. I know my mother's mother was a tyrant on "not spoiling", and warned my mother at top volume she would have "nothing but trouble" with her youngest four, after rebelling against her mother's "advice" on childrearing after the first two.

 

But I still feel sorry for those two babies....

[Nakia]

Bless you for giving that little one some attention. I get what the others are saying about not really knowing the situation, but you said you know these people and this is their norm. Personally I love love love that age when they are starting to sit up and giggle so much and they are really wanting to explore what's around them. Makes me miss having a baby around....almost. :D

[TKDmom]

Thanks for the reminder that I need to go interact with my baby, now. ;)

This child is currently climbing on tables whenever my back is turned. :glare:

[AMDG]

That all sat like lumps themselves. Mom was quiet, BF knew no one, GM is always a sourpuss, and GF is quiet around them. (Away from them is funny and fun).

 

Baby was not the least fussy the moment I put something in front of her to gaze and wonder at. You know the look. Baby's eyes get wide and her rolling head is cocked forward, and she strains to keep it very still so she can LOOK at something, so deeply, with such amazement, and then the beating arms for a few seconds, with a crow, and then still again, staring, staring. I had 40 seconds of fussing when she was sucking her fist, and that was distracted by singing La Cucaracha in her ear.

 

My point is that they were absorbed the WHOLE time jiggling babies, and tried nothing else but jiggling. Not one toy in three hours? Not one word spoken to baby? I watched closer and closer as the day pulled on, and it was like a row of unhappy robots jiggling babies that were crying for interaction. It was very depressing, and it made me feel very sorry for those babies' brains. That was a normal girl who wanted to try her legs and bat at colors, not be held the whole time in a recline, off her feet with nothing to hold or push against, and a view of GM's chin and the trees above, or over the shoulder to look at the webbing of the lawn chair and a high brown fence. If she could talk, she'd have said "I'm not a month old anymore, I'm 5 months old!!"

 

We have such good mothers here, they can't imagine anyone would do this "without a good excuse". Since I know GM dominates, and made it very clear to me the child would NOT be eating until 2.5 hours after the last feeding, perhaps she doesn't believe in "spoiling them", and everyone was cowing to her style. But I'm guessing. My mother was very Germanic and probably older than this GM's mother, and she didn't "feed on schedule", being a believer in the intrinsic wisdom of natural systems and the folly of human ones. Perhaps this GM, who is stepping up for this young mother, is putting a rather stereotypical Old World upbringing on them. Who knows. I know my mother's mother was a tyrant on "not spoiling", and warned my mother at top volume she would have "nothing but trouble" with her youngest four, after rebelling against her mother's "advice" on childrearing after the first two.

 

But I still feel sorry for those two babies....

 

I understand, and I know there are plenty of babies that I feel bad for myself on a (nearly) daily basis. I wasn't trying to play devil's advocate, more so just thinking of how excited I get to visit with adults after playing patty-cake all day.

 

Of course, each situation has it's "feel," and this one was just not right to you. I get it now. And while I might try to pawn off a little one so I can get a three minute conversation in, I'm always carrying a bag of tricks and plently of snacks with me in case there isn't a willing taker. ;)

[bairnmama]

That all sat like lumps themselves. Mom was quiet, BF knew no one, GM is always a sourpuss, and GF is quiet around them. (Away from them is funny and fun).

 

Baby was not the least fussy the moment I put something in front of her to gaze and wonder at. You know the look. Baby's eyes get wide and her rolling head is cocked forward, and she strains to keep it very still so she can LOOK at something, so deeply, with such amazement, and then the beating arms for a few seconds, with a crow, and then still again, staring, staring. I had 40 seconds of fussing when she was sucking her fist, and that was distracted by singing La Cucaracha in her ear.

 

My point is that they were absorbed the WHOLE time jiggling babies, and tried nothing else but jiggling. Not one toy in three hours? Not one word spoken to baby? I watched closer and closer as the day pulled on, and it was like a row of unhappy robots jiggling babies that were crying for interaction. It was very depressing, and it made me feel very sorry for those babies' brains. That was a normal girl who wanted to try her legs and bat at colors, not be held the whole time in a recline, off her feet with nothing to hold or push against, and a view of GM's chin and the trees above, or over the shoulder to look at the webbing of the lawn chair and a high brown fence. If she could talk, she'd have said "I'm not a month old anymore, I'm 5 months old!!"

 

We have such good mothers here, they can't imagine anyone would do this "without a good excuse". Since I know GM dominates, and made it very clear to me the child would NOT be eating until 2.5 hours after the last feeding, perhaps she doesn't believe in "spoiling them", and everyone was cowing to her style. But I'm guessing. My mother was very Germanic and probably older than this GM's mother, and she didn't "feed on schedule", being a believer in the intrinsic wisdom of natural systems and the folly of human ones. Perhaps this GM, who is stepping up for this young mother, is putting a rather stereotypical Old World upbringing on them. Who knows. I know my mother's mother was a tyrant on "not spoiling", and warned my mother at top volume she would have "nothing but trouble" with her youngest four, after rebelling against her mother's "advice" on childrearing after the first two.

 

But I still feel sorry for those two babies....

 

:iagree: I felt this way about my nephew. He was about 6 months older than my ds and had already given up trying to attract his parents' attention by about 8 months. To list an example, we were down visiting when ds was only 6 wks old and everyone had gone out to eat. In the restaurant, dn was sat in a highchair and had a bit of everything on the table rubbed on his lips or actually popped in his mouth, but nobody actually said a word TO him. Then when we got back to my in-laws' house, dn was sat down behind the couch still strapped in his carrier. He was wide awake with no toys in or on his seat and no one bothered to get him out of the car seat or even make eye contact with him until he started crying about 30 or 45 min later! I kept asking about him, but they would just glance over and say he was fine. If I hadn't had my hands full with ds and dd (she was 3 at the time), I would have gotten him out myself and given him some interaction!

 

There were 6 other adults there and they basically all did the jiggling thing and not much more. Of course, I now know that in "d"h's family a child is "just starting to get big enough to have fun with" at about 4 yrs old.:001_huh: