Math for possible engineer major

[SueS]

I had some questions on another post about TT. I'm wondering if TT is ok to use through pre-calc for child who may go into engineering. I'm still trying to decide whether to follow Algebra 1 with Algebra 2 or Geometry. I think I'm going to do Algebra 2 since that's what TT recommends.

 

Is there a "better" curriculum for students who may go into engineering? He used Saxon and few others and when we found TT it seemed to work the best for him. It does take him awhile to complete his lessons...maybe an hour.

[1Togo]

Others will weigh in on this, and I look forward to their comments, but we have stuck with Saxon through all the years. When we first began homeschooling years ago, we used Robinson curriculum. Dr. R recommended Saxon. Being new homeschoolers and not having many options, I decided his advice was as good as any. Saxon has worked for all of our children. Our oldest son has learning disabilities and struggles with math. He worked through the Saxon books to 1/3 of the calculus book, scored very well on the ACT and SAT, and did well in his college math courses. Our youngest son is a math whiz. He finished the Saxon books through calculus by 11th grade. He also scored very well on the ACT. Our daughter struggles with math, so it took her longer to get going, but she is will be on track at the end of this year. Throughout the years, I worried that Saxon was weak on math reasoning, etc. However, dd's computational skills are excellent, and she has developed an interest in numbers.

 

Btw, we followed the Robinson math recipe. Math every day except Sunday. One lesson or test every day. Work every problem in every book. No calculators. If the error rate goes above 5%, address the issue. Student reworks incorrect problems until they are correct. No using solution manuals.

 

Bonita

[Michelle in AL]

I have one that wants to go into engineering too.

 

Calculus 1 is scheduled to be taken their 1st semester at college. They must test into this level or could possibly get behind in their schedules.

 

From what I've gleaned from the engineering majors at college confidential is that students need to be ready for Calculus by freshman yr. Taking calculus in high school is a plus, but not necessary. A TRUE understanding of pre-cal and trig concepts is the most important plus of making it through the 3 levels of cal in college.

 

Others say that AP cal is beneficial and looks good on their transcript especially if they have to apply separately to engineering school.

 

I think any program that promotes a good thorough understanding of concepts would be fine. I haven't used TT, so I can't speak to that part.

[Tullia]

I talked with a mom whose family is using TT. Both parents are engineers and they like the curriculum. I'd seen so many negative reviews here that I was really curious and asked her a lot of questions. It's been a couple of years now and I don't remember the details, but they are definitely hsing with the expectation that their dc will attend college and major in some kind of math or science.

 

Speaking from the perspective of my ds who finished high school with plenty of math for a non-math/science major who decided at the last minute that he did NOT want to pursue a humanities or business degree your goal should be for him to be ready for college calculus the first semester. My son was not, and since he enrolled last fall at a time when the CC had its highest ever enrollment he couldn't get into the pre-calc classes until spring. He was finally able to enroll in calculus this summer, but will still have to do some schedule gymnastics for the next two terms.

 

Based on some things ds has heard from his college instructors, I'd say that high school calculus would be a plus but not necessary. Quite a few students who take high school calculus are not really prepared and either struggle through college calculus or back up and take a college pre-calc course. Good algebra skills are essential, though. A decent understanding of trig is good too, but not as important. Ds' calculus instructor says imperfectly learned or forgotten algebra skills are his students' biggest problems.

 

HTH,

Martha

 

Also, it would be a good idea to check admissions requirements for a variety of schools with a really close look at those you think he'd be most interested in attending.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Martha in NM
add info

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

If TT is what works best for him but he needed something more rigorous I'd be more inclined to continue with TT and follow it with something like AOPS.

[SueS]

What math programs are more rigorous? Is MUS ok for someone who may pursue a math major?

[AnitaMS]

I like the Algebra: Structure and Method, Geometry, Algebra and Trig:STructure and method book 2, and then Advanced Mathematics by Houghton-Mifflin. My kids did these books, and then had no trouble at all with calculus. That said, I am a math person myself, so I could help them. They are very good, solid math books.

[Julie of KY]

I think the "best" is whatever suits your family and your child. I do think there are more rigorous programs out there, but they aren't better if you're not learning it all.

Take it one step at a time, and keep challenging your child.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

I think the "best" is whatever suits your family and your child. I do think there are more rigorous programs out there, but they aren't better if you're not learning it all.

Take it one step at a time, and keep challenging your child.

:iagree:That's why I'm more inclined to follow MUS (that we LOVE and works very well for my students) with something more difficult than I am to switch if we need something "more." We're really enjoying LoF as a follow-up to MUS. It has more word problems and real life application. I use it a bit behind (like a semester or so) MUS so they're getting everything in MUS first and then refining/expanding in LoF. I bought a few AoPS (Art of Problem Solving) books and while I'm impressed by them I don't think either of my children would appreciate using JUST the AoPS books.

[ScubaDo]

I have heard from other moms with engineer types that swear by Chalkdust for the depth and challenge.

[EKS]

What math programs are more rigorous? Is MUS ok for someone who may pursue a math major?

 

I wouldn't use the TT algebra sequence or MUS for someone who is going to be a math or science major. Take a look at Foerster's algebra books. They have outstanding word problems and you can get lectures on DVD from Math Without Borders.

[SueS]

I wonder if I switch programs if he will miss something that one program doesn't cover.

[Jann in TX]

TT's Algebra is missing some work on quadratic equations and linear Algebra

 

I suggest working Geometry (a good program will review Algebra 1--and include some basic linear Algebra --coordinate Geometry) this year then moving on to Chalkdust (or similar program) for Algebra 2... he can learn quadratics sometime during the next year... they will be used a lot in Algebra 2.

 

Another idea is to stay with TT for Algebra 2, Geometry and Pre-Calc then follow that up with a traditional Pre-Calc course... he would be grounded in his basics--and TT's Pre-Calc would have given him an INTRODUCTION to traditional Pre-Calc material making it less intimidating and giving him the best foundation for success with Calc.

 

I'm not sure what grade your son is in now. If you do not have time to work an additional Pre-Calc program then I would ask you to consider switching from TT now (or after Geometry)...

 

I'm not sure how much review of Algebra 1 is in the Larson (Chalkdust) text--- but programs like Lial would have enough review to catch him up--while giving him the rigor needed for a successful college Math career.

[kiana]

If he's switched a few times and is finally doing well, I'd be personally inclined to use it through precalc, then step back and repeat precalc with another program to ensure adequate foundation.

 

Calculus integrates so much of previous math that a student without a very good precalculus preparation frequently flounders.

[SueS]

I looked at Chalkdust and it looks good. I've seen/heard that TT Algebra 2 isn't the best. I am thinking of changing to Chalkdust and having him do Geometry for 9th then Algebra 2 for 10th. I emailed Chalkdust to see what sequence they recommend. What do they recommend after Geom and Alg 2? It looks like pre-calc and calc, but doesn't the student need trig?

[kiana]

Trig is included in precalc.

[TRILLIUM]

For some schools you need to finish third semester calculus before you begin your sophomore classes in engingeering. This is the case at Washington University in St. Louis where my dd is attending this coming year. You can take Calc 1 in a special summer session before entering your freshman semester, or take Calc 3 during the summer between freshman or sophmore year. So placement in Calc 2 is not essential---but it might be useful.

 

This is a school dependent issue.