Scores vs. characterists?

[FrogMom5]

If you have a child who fits all of the characterists of a gifted child but does not have the WISC scores to match, is that child still gifted?

 

For example, a young child who:

- makes up codes

- has an extraordinary imagination

- solves math problems in unique ways

- has a large area of interests

- is intense about things he/she likes

- is overly sensitive (takes everything as criticism)

- is highly sensitive to the plight of others

- learns on his/her own, if interested in the subject

 

and so on.

 

I have read that learning disabilities like dyslexia and ADHD can throw off the test scores, yet many children with these diagnosis score in the gifted range on tests.

 

Anyway, I've been wondering about this for a long time and thought I would finally ask. And yes, I have one child who fits the description above, one who I'm not sure about yet, and one who is clearly an average student.

 

Thanks for your input.

Denise

[KAR120C]

A child with an active imagination and a lot of creativity, sensitivity, and drive certainly has specific educational needs. You're absolutely going to want to provide an education that takes advantage of those strengths! But whether that's the same thing as being gifted (in terms of IQ) is a different question. Is there a program you need scores to take advantage of? or services you think would be useful? Or is there something about how s/he learns that you think you're not getting a good read on?

 

Honestly there are very few questions that a single IQ score answers. Knowing your child as an individual is much more valuable in the long run. The major benefit of homeschooling (IMO) is that you don't have to categorize large groups of children into bunches and hope that they have similar needs. You just teach the ones you have. An unusual IQ test result (unusually high, unusually scattered, etc.) tells you that they may have some unusual abilities or needs, but to know exactly what they are you still need to know the child.

 

On the topic of twice-exceptionalities... that's something that the testing itself could start to tease out. Were there big discrepancies between different subscores? Sometimes a specific subtest or index can give you hints that further investigation is warranted. That's the sort of thing you need to bring up with the examiner (or that s/he should have discussed with you anyway) -- if the results suggest there might be a problem, that should definitely be pursued. But if it's just that you have a fabulously creative child with a perfectly average IQ test result, there's nothing wrong with that. Strengths that don't show up on tests are still strengths, and should be encouraged!

[HeidiD]

Anyway, I've been wondering about this for a long time and thought I would finally ask. And yes, I have one child who fits the description above, one who I'm not sure about yet, and one who is clearly an average student.

 

Thanks for your input.

Denise

 

 

It's definitely possible. One of my kids was given the Wechsler Preschool and Primary Intelligence Test at 4 1/2. Her scores at that point were below average. Based on her current performance/abilities at 13 yo, there's no way that was accurate.

 

Another DS is HG and dyslexic. His recent achievement scores don't reflect the dyslexia. He took a test normed for spring of 10th grade, although he's finishing up 9th, and his reading scores were at 99th percentile. I would expect scores to be lower, but somehow he's learned to compensate. Ditto the math section.

 

Tests don't always provide the whole picture in either direction.

[FrogMom5]

Your answers are very helpful. I am interested for two reasons, to take advantage of any programs or classes (although he's getting a bit old for those) and so that I know where to research and find solutions to issues. My dilema stems from my son being mislabeled when he was very young. Teachers would tell me to handle things in a particular way, but those strategies never worked. Then I was told to read about certain disorders only to discover that he didn't fit those at all.

 

Once I was told to tell him, "You have to do this because that's the rule." His answer to this was, "Really Mommy? That's the rule? Why is that the rule? Should it be the rule?" :tongue_smilie:

 

I also think I mishandled some of his behaviors because I misunderstood what was going on. I don't want to make that mistake anymore.

 

Heidi- my son too hits the ceiling on many sections of the Iowa test. Like your son, his reading and language scores were in the 99th percentile. Pretty surprising for a child who had language delays and only learned to read at age 10.

 

Thanks again for your responses.

Denise

[HeidiD]

Heidi- my son too hits the ceiling on many sections of the Iowa test. Like your son, his reading and language scores were in the 99th percentile. Pretty surprising for a child who had language delays and only learned to read at age 10.

 

Denise

 

Aha! Out of curiousity, I pulled out my daughter's test report. Language deficits were noted and there was a discrepancy between her Performance and Verbal IQ scores. She was found to have receptive/expressive language delays. It reads: "Consequently, the Full Scale IQ is not interpretable".

 

So clearly, language delays/disorders can skew a test score. Since you mentioned that your son had language delays and learned to read later than average yet his scores are so high, he is clearly very smart.

 

Trust your own observations. :)

[zaichiki]

LDs and other issues can affect IQ scores. (I have one whose subtest score scatter means we get the GAI instead of the FSIQ.) Also remember that the IQ score is a snapshot of how a child is doing on a particular day. Results can be affected by illness (ear infection?) and/or how the child gets along with the person giving the test. (I have a friend whose child scored below average one day and HG on another.)

 

The answers are scored in a way that makes it important to choose someone who has experience testing gifted kids. Gifted kids answer questions differently, typically.

 

When my dd was 4, she took the WPPSI. After the first day of testing (broke it up into two or three-I don't remember-sessions b/c of her young age/attention span), dd told me with pride that she had "tricked the lady, Mama!" Umm... yeah. She apparently was not following directions and the psychologist, though she had experience with gifted kids, missed that. Instead of grouping together items according to the directions, dd was grouping together things she liked or things that were shiny or pretty or something. (I can't remember.)

 

I called the psychologist and shared what dd had told me, but she said that she thought dd just didn't understand the directions. I told her that I thought it was entirirely purposeful, as dd brought it up in conversation at the dinner table and seemed awfully proud. Perhaps she had been bored with the original directions? I don't know why she wanted to "trick" the psychologist. (shrug) Maybe it's a personality thing?

[FrogMom5]

Thanks Heidi. That helps a lot. You're right, testing is not always an accurate reflection of the child's abilities.

 

Zaichiki - your story made me laugh. My son used to manipulate his preschool teachers. I tried telling them but they wouldn't believe me. We told him to stop and he did.

 

Your daughter sounds very smart and delightful. It's just too bad her cleverness was during testing.

 

Now that my son is a teen, I guess I shouldn't worry about access to special programs since more rigorous classes and programs are available to high school students anyway. I will continue reading in the gifted area so that I understand and meet his needs better.

 

Thanks again everyone!

Denise

[alisonslp]

I view giftedness as several factors combined: how quickly the child learns, how much repetition is needed to master skills, how well she learns independently, how much depth she chooses to go into for her interests, intensity of learning and questioning.

 

Many gifted children possess the qualities that you mentioned but most excel in the above qualities as well - to different degrees, of course.

 

Having said that, I posted a question a couple months back about characteristics and IQ scores. all of my children have characteristics of children in the 130+ range but 2 of the 3 have tested at the 120-125 range, though their achievement scores are in the 98+%iles.

 

As others have said, it is more important to plan based on the child's individual needs rather than focus on the test scores. I know this can be tough if you're trying for a specific program for gifted students but maybe you can replicate it somehow, if your child doesn't qualify.

 

alison

[DebbS]

When my dd was 4, she took the WPPSI. After the first day of testing (broke it up into two or three-I don't remember-sessions b/c of her young age/attention span), dd told me with pride that she had "tricked the lady, Mama!" Umm... yeah. She apparently was not following directions and the psychologist, though she had experience with gifted kids, missed that. Instead of grouping together items according to the directions, dd was grouping together things she liked or things that were shiny or pretty or something. (I can't remember.)

 

I had to chuckle at this. When my now 15yo son was very young(pre-speech), he liked to stack blocks and those colored donut rings into very interesting but barely balanced structures. In addition, he liked to throw the donut rings with a spin so that they kept spinning when they landed. One day I asked him if he could stack the donuts from biggest to smallest. He actually did it, then rolled his eyes at me, dumped them off the thing that you stack them on and never, ever did it again. Years later in Montessori school, his teacher pulled me into the classroom one day because she was concerned that as a 5 year old he had yet to build the pink tower correctly (blocks stacked biggest to smallest). What she showed me was one of his creations in progress starting with one of the smallest blocks. I took him aside and told him to just do biggest to smallest and get it over with. Again, he rolled his eyes. But he did do it after I left. It was funny when he expressed his confusion that day over why the teacher was so impressed by him doing something that was clearly easy.

Edited July 26, 2010 by DebbS
dyslexia strikes again

[Nan in Mass]

Whenever we are in a restaurant, my teenager collects up everyone's silverware and makes elaborate balancing structures to ward off boredom. I can just see his reaction if someone asked him if he could set a table. I imagine your child felt about like that LOL.