Good Writing

[Kimber]

I've been trying to put my finger on what makes a piece of writing good. Is it complexity for some of you guys? Is it multi-syllable words? Is it message? meaning? flow?

 

Is it the way the words sing to you? Or the way they take you away?

 

Kimberly

 

I started reading about the subject on a blog, and I thought I'd ask the homeschooling parents.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Kimber

[Mrs Mungo]

A piece of good writing does not distract me with errors, and it makes me think about something in a new way.

[Aubrey]

Voice. Iow, it's authentic.

[Kimber]

I agree about the voice. Which authors are your favorite? I'm trying to come up with a list now of books to read, and voice is one of my considerations.

[Kimber]

What about fiction? Does the same hold true?

[Mrs Mungo]

What about fiction? Does the same hold true for you?

 

Yes, for the most part. The exception is brain candy type books. I don't need my trashy romance novels to make me think, that's not the point. :lol:

[Kimber]

I'm looking for a good book with great writing. Any ideas?

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm looking for a good book with great writing. Any ideas?

 

What type of book? A classic or something more modern? About people? Events? Ideas? Fiction or non-fiction? Funny or serious?

[KingM]

Economy of words. A bad writer takes twice as long to say half as much.

[Mrs Mungo]

Economy of words. A bad writer takes twice as long to say half as much.

 

I'm looking at you, STEPHEN KING!!!

[Aubrey]

Economy of words. A bad writer takes twice as long to say half as much.

 

I disagree. I read an Oprah book club book once where the analogy was: "It was like ____ movie." I hadn't seen the movie, & that was all that was there. :confused: What a cop-out.

 

Otoh, while Faulkner is not exactly everyone's favorite writer, he is a classic, did win awards, & missed the class on economy of words. :lol: Melville, too, really. They do express a sense of hopelessness, though, as you wait for punctuation. ;)

 

Now, I'm sparse in my writing (except for here!) so I know what you mean; I'm just saying it's not a good rule of thumb for universal application. :001_smile:

[Mrs Mungo]

Otoh, while Faulkner is not exactly everyone's favorite writer, he is a classic, did win awards, & missed the class on economy of words. :lol: Melville, too, really. They do express a sense of hopelessness, though, as you wait for punctuation. ;)

 

 

Although they are wordy, it is with purpose. Each word is carefully chosen and crafted. They aren't saying half as much, they are conveying MORE. I would disagree that they are examples of this practice.

 

And I hate most Oprah books! I'm at the point I will actively avoid a book if it has Oprah's seal of approval.

[Aubrey]

I agree about the voice. Which authors are your favorite? I'm trying to come up with a list now of books to read, and voice is one of my considerations.

 

Hmmm...my across the board favorite authors are TS Eliot, Sandra Cisneros, Faulkner, Lois Lowry, ee cummings. I strongly favor 20th c southern American writers, but I'm not sure why.

 

Now your question is really more than who do *I* like. First, are you looking for yourself? Are you merely looking for good writing? If so, I'd start w/ House on Mango Street by Cisneros. I also enjoyed All the King's Men. Short stories can be good for getting a feel for an author. Faulkner's Barn Burning is completely approachable, thought-provoking, & rich w/ voice & pov. I loved Woman Warrior, but it's pretty bizarre & probably not for everyone. I liked The Awakening, Catcher in the Rye, Paul's Case, Flowers for Algernon. (Last 2 are shorts.)

 

Then there's standard stuff. To Kill a Mockingbird was good. I didn't care for Great Expectations, but upon reflection, I guess it had good voice. And you know, everybody really probably ought to endure Dickens at some point in their lives. :lol:

 

But when it comes down to it, the truth is, I *much* prefer YA lit to all of it. My all-time favorite book is The Giver by Lois Lowry.

 

I guess...I prefer a good dystopian problem to voice, if I have to choose. Universal problems of human nature intrigue me. I love Greek tragedy, lol. But voice is what, imo, makes you *believe* the story. The Greeks didn't quite have that down as much as we do, what w/ freedom & independence & all that. ;)

 

Oh...or were you asking for your dc? Oops. Meant to ask that first. :001_huh:

[Aubrey]

Although they are wordy, it is with purpose. Each word is carefully chosen and crafted. They aren't saying half as much, they are conveying MORE. I would disagree that they are examples of this practice.

 

And I hate most Oprah books! I'm at the point I will actively avoid a book if it has Oprah's seal of approval.

 

Right. That's my point. "Economy of words" could theoretically be argued in their favor, the way you're putting it, but at a glance, a page-long sentence wouldn't seem to qualify.

 

I do agree that they're wordy w/ purpose. In fact, when I read Faulkner, I imagine I have no a/c (I started this the summer our a/c was out & I was pg w/ #4 due in AUG in TX, lol). I imagine there's no radio or tv & that good conversation on the front porch or a good book are the limits of my usual day-to-day entertainment.

 

Then suddenly, Faulkner's descriptions, instead of being tedious, instead of feeling like will-you-get-to-the-point-already-so-I-can-check-my-email, become rich. I can hear the chirp of the crickets behind him, the creak of his rocking chair on that weak board as he tells his story, we fan ourselves, and drink our lemonade.

 

I don't love it. But I *appreciate* what it probably was when he wrote it. And I love the ones I've been walked through w/ a teacher. (The Sound & the Fury)

[Kimber]

Aubrey: Naw, it's for me. I'm asking because I've spent the past few months writing a novel. Now that it's done, I wonder why I'm writing. But I write because I love to write.

 

I was reading a literary agent's blog about trying to quantify what it is that makes writing good. I don't know what that is. I actually study other people's writings to try and see what makes them tick, but it's really hard to identify, even with the book open.

 

And now that I'm finished, I want to focus more on reading really good books. But I'm not worried about non-fiction stuff, I think that's pretty easy, because it's all about clarity. Not that it's easy to do, but that it's easy to appreciate. It's the artsy stuff that I'm intrigued by.

 

I peruse a lot of children's books and I see a lot of stuff where it seems the writer works too hard at trying to create voice or style or whatever. So I figured maybe I'm not coming across the right books.

 

Mrs. Mungo: I'm looking for fiction stuff. I don't care the genre as long as it grabs you. I even like literary candy, if it's a good story.

 

One book I really enjoyed this year that I had skipped was Maniac McGee by Jerry Spinelli. (sp?) Anyway it was awesome.

[Ginevra]

I've been trying to put my finger on what makes a piece of writing good. Is it complexity for some of you guys? Is it multi-syllable words? Is it message? meaning? flow?

 

Is it the way the words sing to you? Or the way they take you away?

 

Kimberly

 

I started reading about the subject on a blog, and I thought I'd ask the homeschooling parents.

 

Tight prose. Precise, perfect, evocative word choice. In fiction, I love deeply layered plots. I love a twist that I never saw coming. Proper pacing is welcome; even non-fiction can suffer from speeding through one part and dragging in another.

 

Sometimes, I get high on perfect word choice. I thought Wicked was the most bizarre book ever, but there were segments of prose I could drink up like a good sangria. The non-fiction book Plenty, which was about eating locally grown food was like that, too. I bathed in those words.

[Ginevra]

I agree about the voice. Which authors are your favorite? I'm trying to come up with a list now of books to read, and voice is one of my considerations.

 

Out of recently read books, I loved the voice in The Help. It hooked me in the first five words and didn't let go. I felt that way about Because of Winn-Dixie, too.

 

My favorite authors are JK Rowling, Jane Austen, EB White, CS Lewis.

[Kimber]

Thanks everybody for the comments. I'll be checking out the suggested titles at the library.

 

I have really enjoyed reading the comments to this thread. It's obvious you guys love words.

 

I know that my own style of writing is sort of technical, rather than artistic. It's probably due to my engineering background. I write for the message. But I love to read books that are more art in the deliverance, whether or not the message is thought provoking.

 

Maybe I need to read more poetry. That'll be number 142 on my list of things to do tomorrow.

 

Kimberly

[rwjx2khsmj]

Good writing is writing that makes me want to keep on reading.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I've been trying to put my finger on what makes a piece of writing good. Is it complexity for some of you guys? Is it multi-syllable words? Is it message? meaning? flow?

 

Is it the way the words sing to you? Or the way they take you away?

 

Kimberly

 

I started reading about the subject on a blog, and I thought I'd ask the homeschooling parents.

 

I compare just about everything to cooking. There are all kinds of meals that can be good. But the fact that a variety of meals can be pleasing doesn't change the fact that a meal can also be unsatisfying or just plain bad.

 

So beyond obvious errors of form in grammar or punctuation, I am attracted to writing that is clear, vivid, original and thoughtful. I'm reading a book right now by Mark Helprin that is wonderful. It is a non-fiction book rather than a novel. In it he manages to cut down the opposing side without name calling.

 

For an example that might be closer to hand, grab a copy of Charlotte's Web and read the chapter on the rope swing in the barn or the visit to the county fair.

 

It is more a question of the right words (for meaning and for rhythm) than long or obscure words. Sort of the way that a certain side dish just goes with a meal where another would have been discordant.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Try Edith Wharton short stories. Dorothy Sayers' mysteries with Peter Whimsey. Ray Bradbury.

 

I'm really enjoying Digital Barbarism and just ordered a collection of short stories by the same author, Mark Helprin.

 

Something about modern writing that bugs me is that it is so long winded.

[Peela]

I enjoy Susan Wise Bauer's writing because it doesn't try to baffle me with unecessary big words and complex language- it communicates, clearly and effectively, and simply, without being simplistic. Writing is about communicating, not impressing the reader with your brilliance, even if you are brilliant.

I like simple, clear language, and I dont like waffle (except perhaps in things like Walden Pond type books where the whole book is kind of waffle in a way, but I happen to enjoy that particular waffle).

I remember reading Climbing Parnassus and being so impressed that I could barely understand what he was saying unless I focused really, really hard, and I felt in awe of him....and then later realising that it is pure arrogance to write like that, and so unecessary, although "impressive". I am sure he would say that is exactly why more people should study Latin and Greek, but I have read many books written in the 19th century, and most were easier to understand than Tracy Simmons!

Edited July 15, 2010 by Peela

[Aubrey]

I was telling dh about this thread last night, & he was trying to decide if he'd ever read a mediocre story w/ good voice--he was trying to argue that plot is one of the more key elements of good writing & was trying to see if he thought it ranked above or below voice.

 

So he's been listening to classics on tape while he drives (lots of driving for his job), & he concluded that his current audio book has good voice but is not a great story.

 

"But what about it is good voice?" I asked, suspicious of his assessment of characterization, since he said it was good but the story wasn't.

 

"I can't put it into words." A common response from both him & ds. Grrr.

 

But then of course I couldn't help teasing him. "Rich, resonant, deep voice w/ a southern accent but not so much as to call it a drawl." Hehehe.

[Kimber]

I was thinking about it this morning. And I was thinking to me and my dh, it's the value of the message that makes something valuable or not. But I don't know that that applies to writing itself.

 

I wish my dh knew more about the writing itself so that we could discuss that together. Right now my dh is reading the BP website for updates on the technology involved with the new cap. Either that or websites that analyze the national economy.

He could do the last one for hours.

 

You know what's really interesting about that economics website is that the guy who writes it knows a lot about literature nd often references Greek tragedies in reference to our economy. It's also really entertaining. He's a very good writer.

 

So, I'll have to think about it some more.

 

So, SWB, if by chance, you see this. We'd love your opinion the subject.

[Mrs Mungo]

The other thing about great authors is that they speak to timeless themes. The other day I posted to my facebook a video clip from Deadliest Catch because it was so reminiscent of Sense and Sensibility. "You are too emotional, you need to grow up," vs. "you are so cold, you haven't shed a tear." Austen wrote about it and here we have it in a conversation between two crab fisherman brothers.

 

I think you are discounting non-fiction a little too easily. I think it is a much more difficult thing to weave a great story when you're working with a set of facts.

 

Here are some of my favorite fiction books and authors:

 

The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoyevsky-I think Dostoyevsky is one of the greatest writers of all time. There are a LOT of characters and he gets sort of soap-opera-esque, but one forgives that.

 

Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier-A girl's coming of age story.

 

The Penelopiad by Margaret Atwood-A take on The Odyssey from Penelope's point of view.

 

The Turn of the Screw by Henry James-A ghost story...of sorts.

 

Brave New World by Aldous Huxley-When people ask what modern book has impacted you the most, I choose this one.

Persuasion by Jane Austen-It's romantic from a woman's point of view in the same way Pride and Prejudice is romantic from a girl's point of view.

 

Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte-Because if you read Austen, you need to read a Bronte sister as a sort of antidote for what Austen tells us about the social classes.

 

The Age of Innocence or The Buccaneers by Edith Wharton-I think these are almost as relevant now as they were then, despite the prevalence of divorce.

 

The Princess Bride by William Goldman-I love modern day fairy tales.

 

Stardust by Neil Gaiman-ditto, with a twist.

 

Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett-This is one of the most hilarious books that I have ever read. Rarely do you get a funny take on the apocalypse.

 

Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swift-nobody does satire like Swift.

 

The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald-I appreciate it when everything is sort of tied up in a bow at the end. Ultimately, I guess it's a book about what it means to be a friend.

 

Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut-If you're not sure what humanism is, read this book.

Walden by Henry Thoreau

The Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner

 

The Lord of the Rings by JRR Tolkien

Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad

[Mejane]

 

Something about modern writing that bugs me is that it is so long winded.

 

 

Yes. It's almost as if modern writers think long equals good. Wordiness is one of the things for which I have no patience, and which will make me abandon a book.

 

Last year, my daughter read 1984 and son read Animal Farm. Their first words when I handed them the books were, "They're so short!" Yes, so short and yet so good.

[LibraryLover]

I'm looking at you, STEPHEN KING!!!

 

 

And the guy who wrote Pillars of the Earth. OMG...

[TCB]

I don't know any technical terms etc but a while ago I had been reading some quite modern stuff, several books in a row, then I picked up John Steinbeck and immediately realised how much better the writing was, not necessarily the story but how much better written it was. Can't use any technical language to say why it just was.

[Kimber]

The other thing about great authors is that they speak to timeless themes.

So true.

 

This is what my husband looks for. I think I can appreciate words for themselves and the way they sing. But that probably falls more into the area of literary candy.