I'm curious about TV standards (if you watch TV, obviously)

[Ginevra]

This is just out of curiosity, arising out of a group conversation in which another hs mother said her kids are not allowed to watch Suite Life of Zack and Cody. Her reasoning was that the characters on the show objectify girls, i.e., "She's hot!," "TWINS!!!," etc. True; the characters do that. Personally, I never saw it as a reason to disallow that show, but she makes a fair point, too. Out of the seven women at the table, only possibly one was inclined to agree with her; the rest (including myself) either don't care about that at all, or just think it's too minor to be bothered over.

 

What are your standards on allowing your kids to watch TV? And, what age children? Do you pre-view any new show they want to start watching?

 

Obviously, this question is meant for families who do allow the kids to watch TV. There's not much point answering this question if you don't watch TV at all. :001_smile:

[lionfamily1999]

The Sweet Life was actually one of the shows that led to us booting television :p I could go on and on and on about that show. Sorry for the pointless post, but I thought it was hilarious that you would name one of those shows that really gets me worked up :D

[Parrothead]

I allow Zack and Cody. They are on now and I was wondering why the Disney boys are encouraged to grow out their hair.

 

I'll allow a lot that others don't. I like Spongebob. Dh would never agree to getting rid of the TV.

 

I don't pre-screen the new shows but I'll watch them with dd. We almost got in trouble by watching Torchwood without pre-screening. 10 minutes into that one we had to turn it off.

 

 

During toddlerhood we watched a lot of PBS Kids. Between 5-7/8 we watched a lot of Disney cartoons and Nick, jr. Now we are burned out on Hannah, Zack and Cody and the rest looking for something we all can watch. We've watched all the NCIS, Dr. Who and Sara Jane Adventures we can get from Netflix.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Parrothead

[simka2]

I used to be incredibly strict!!! Back then I was a different person. Somehow, I thought just what they might see on TV could cancel out all the good healthy lovin they saw demonstrated between dh and I.

 

Now, I'm not ridiculous about what they watch! Explicit sex scenes are above their maturity level, but I really do not have a problem with most of the nick, disney, kids stuff!

 

When push comes to shove...what they experience in our home is going to have far greater power...than what they see on tv!!!

 

But we don't watch a ton of tv either. :D

[Disney Dreaming]

I don't get all worked up over most tv shows. Most of them actually usually have some lessons that can be learned(I am talking about Disney shows). I try to keep it to Disney, Nick(Spongebob drives me CRAZY but dd watched it and grew tired of it), and the Cartoon Network. DD will also watch Full House on ABC Family. As for Suite Life, dd loves it, me not so much. I love Hannah Montana though-go ahead and laugh.:lol:

[Parrothead]

I don't get all worked up over most tv shows. Most of them actually usually have some lessons that can be learned(I am talking about Disney shows). I try to keep it to Disney, Nick(Spongebob drives me CRAZY but dd watched it and grew tired of it), and the Cartoon Network. DD will also watch Full House on ABC Family. As for Suite Life, dd loves it, me not so much. I love Hannah Montana though-go ahead and laugh.:lol:

It is like a soap opera, isn't it.

 

 

The only thing you mentioned that we don't allow is Cartoon Network. I can't stand any of the show on that channel.

[simka2]

It is like a soap opera, isn't it.

 

 

The only thing you mentioned that we don't allow is Cartoon Network. I can't stand any of the show on that channel.

 

Yeah, I'm with you there. Haven't totally banned it yet, but I do tend to say no alot.

[Carrie12345]

I used to be pretty strict about shows. A couple of years ago, I decided that the negative aspects of some shows (like Z&C) didn't really outweigh the fun/funny/smart parts, and they also opened a door for casual conversation about the things I disapprove of.

 

So far, it's worked out well for us. My kids think London is awful. They prefer Carly to Sam. They appreciate Justin's hard work vs. Alex's laziness.

 

I *do* sometimes preview new episodes/specials before I let them watch, so I know what to expect.

 

If my kids weren't equally as interested in higher quality programming, I might still be strict. Right now, I think they're pretty well balanced.

[MyLittleWonders]

We don't allow certain shows (can't stand Z&C; they have been "banned" from the house) - fortunately most of the Disney & Nick shows out there are of no interest to my boys (though my oldest will sit and watch just about anything). Mostly they either watch cartoons (Disney, Nick Jr. - though we can't stand and ban Max & Ruby, and PBS) or shows from HGTV, Cooking/Food Network, or Discovery. My boys are in love with Iron Chef. All that to say, though my oldest is starting to lose interest with most any cartoon show (unless they are geared towards the early/mid elementary age like reruns of George Shrinks and such), he will still watch those. But yes, we do "ban" certain shows that we feel are inappropriate (behavior, innuendo, etc.).

[Pink Fairy]

There was a really interesting chapter in Nuture Shock that discussed how "educational" television, the kind that PBS specializes in, leads to aggression and bullying. It really summed up a lot of the things I don't like about kids' programs.

 

For me, introducing the idea that it's normal to hate your siblings, and to be jealous when a new baby arrives, and to make snotty remarks to your friends, and that a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship is expected in middle school--these are all things that I don't want to normalize. So we watch little kid shows on tv (Blues Clues, Curious George, etc), but most of our older kid viewing is stuff like NASCAR, or Liberty's Kids, or Magic School Bus, and even some of those give me pause at times.

[elegantlion]

We read Fahrenheit 451 last year and had some great discussions about mindless TV. It was about that time when he quit watching Zack and Cody. :D Could be coincidence. We're not super strict with TV or any other media, he'd rather be playing his Xbox or working with his Legos. He's cut out most TV shows on his own.

 

As far as Zack and Cody, I think it was cute when they lived at the hotel. The few episodes I've caught while they are at sea haven't impressed me.

[Robin M]

We don't watch live tv because I really hate the commercials. There are very few shows I even like on the disney channel and cartoon network for son. Dislike Spongebob with a passion. Find most of the characters on either channel very annoying. Another reason we don't watch live tv is so I don't have to spend my time monitoring what's on. Son has tendency to pick up the bad habits of characters instead of good habits, so really censor what is watched. Watching dvd's allows me to spend time writing and reading, while son watches a favorite show.

[the4Rs]

We are not super strict in the sense we ban too much. Thankfully my daughter doesn't care for much of the disney shows like zach and cody, icarly, hannah montana, etc. She likes phineas and ferb (as do I...I am a closet Dr. Doofensmirtz fan) and spongebob...but my kids perfer animation anyway unless it is a made for tv disney movie like camp rock or something. They like Star Wars: Clone Wars and stuff like that.

 

As a family we love game shows and AFV and America's got talent.

[KarenC]

So our tv options are pretty limited. We get 11 channels and 4 of those are PBS. Our dc watch very little tv, months may go by without them watching.

 

One reason we don't have cable is because of so much junk on tv. So, if we did have more channels, I would be very about what they could watch and how many hours a week.

 

Karen

[duckens]

I used to be TV free until Loverboy moved in.

 

Within the last year, we purchased a TIVO, and I LOVE IT!!!

 

Ironically, I think dd watches more tv because of the tivo, and we (as adults) watch less tv.

 

We save all of dd's favorite PBS shows. (We have no cable/satellite/HBO). She may watch one show as I prep for lunch, or one show first thing in the morning as we prep to leave the house. Dd is NOT a morning person, and tv is one of the few things that gets her out of bed. How sad is that? I wish I was a more resourceful parent in this situation.

 

We also watch Big Bang Theory, Nature, and Nova.

 

Dd also watches Scooby Doo movies on weekends or if we have a sitter. She will also pick out one video from the library each week (Zula Patrol, Dora Explorer, Wonder Pets).

 

We have a new Netflix membership, but I have been underwhelmed by it. We watch 3rd Rock from the Sun episodes.

[Wheres Toto]

We don't watch a bunch of tv but the kids like PBS, PBS Kids and Nick Jr. Disney is Playhouse Disney only but I can't stand the commercials so I try to avoid it. Cartoon Network is completely bizarre IMO. I recently started watching Unnatural History. It's a decen show but the kids don't watch it, I do.

 

DH and FIL will let them watch Spongebob, Phineas and Ferb (16 year old likes that too and can sing the whole theme song), Scooby Doo, Garfield, Tom and Jerry....

[TravelingChris]

They all have different things they watch. Youngest tends to watch how its made, say yes to the dress, animal planet, some old cartoons, mythbusters, and that kind of thing. ALmost 17 yo tends to watch on demand movies or movies she has recorded. She watches much more from Netflix.

[Mom in High Heels]

 

DH and FIL will let them watch Spongebob, Phineas and Ferb (16 year old likes that too and can sing the whole theme song), Scooby Doo, Garfield, Tom and Jerry....

 

See, I won't let Indy watch Tom and Jerry because it's so very violent and mean.

 

Zack and Cody I have no problem with. I like how they've handled Cody and Bailey's relationship (they're 16/17 so it's not exactly middle school). They're ridiculously cute and the only time they ever kiss it's a very short peck. Mostly it's kisses on the cheek and hand holding. I also like that they (the twins) usually learn something or see consequences of their actions. London is just, well, she's just there for comic relief IMO.

I do allow Indy to watch Disney XD (all the commercials are in Swedish for us, so they don't bother me).

We all love Phineas and Ferb. It's hilarious and they make so many references to things most kids wouldn't get ("just like Beggar's Canyon back home"). Whenever the Doofenshcmirtz song comes on we always sing it. Sadly, I too know the entire theme song.

Indy can watch Songebob, but no other shows on Nic because I don't like them and he is not allowed to watch Cartoon Network at all. Their shows are horrible.

[Wheres Toto]

See, I won't let Indy watch Tom and Jerry because it's so very violent and mean.

 

=QUOTE]

 

I'm not happy about it either. They watch it when I'm not around. DH has pointed out that we grew up watching Tom and Jerry, as well as all the Bugs Bunny cartoons that were pretty rough, and we turned out fine. :glare:

[homeschoolally]

though we can't stand and ban Max & RubyQUOTE]

 

:lol::lol:

Is there something I don't know about Max and Ruby, or did you just ban it because it irritates you too? Not laughing at you, I've banned even most PBS shows, I'm laughing because I find that show so devoid of any message or meaningful content I can't picture it offending anyone. :001_smile:

 

My primary reason for banning TV shows is sassy attitudes. I can't even stand hearing the kids on Arthur. Bathroom humor and mild violence-- no problem, clueless dad and smart-alek cool kids--no way! I have found that I differ from many of our friends in this, but I'm sticking to it and it is working so far. My kids aren't perfect by any means, but I'm happy that they talk more like the kids in old books instead of Disney stars. It doesn't bother me with other people's kids, but thats just a standard I have for my own. And yes, sometimes they don't fit in with the crowd--but I'm ok with that.

Edited July 13, 2010 by homeschoolally

[NorthwestMom]

I let my kids watch tv and generally would prefer to discuss the aspects of a show that I don't like rather than ban it altogether. I don't mind if my kids are exposed to rude or mildly inappropriate behavior (not sex or violence, but Simpsons kind of stuff), but they have to realize what is pretend cannot come back into our real lives. Several months ago I did have to put the parental control lock on Disney and Nick due to the effects of the tween shows DD8 was watching.

 

What I found was that DD was not mature enough to discern what is "funny" on TV vs. what is funny in real life. She would imitate some of the more rude and obnoxious characters (London) and say things to her sister that were jaw-droppingly rude without seeming to realize that it wasn't funny. For example, we were heading into a store to get new dresses for a choir performance for both girls, and DD8 turned to her younger sister and chirped, "You should get a brown dress to match that big ugly stain on your shirt! Ha ha!" :eek:

 

After we spoke about it, I told her no more Nick or Disney for the rest of the week, and then I caught her sneaking it. The parent locks went on and have been on ever since. I do occasionally let her watch an episode here or there, and have sat and watched with her (nearly killed me) so we could talk about it. When she matures a bit, I'll unlock it permanently.

[Charles Wallace]

This is just out of curiosity, arising out of a group conversation in which another hs mother said her kids are not allowed to watch Suite Life of Zack and Cody. Her reasoning was that the characters on the show objectify girls, i.e., "She's hot!," "TWINS!!!," etc. True; the characters do that. Personally, I never saw it as a reason to disallow that show, but she makes a fair point, too. Out of the seven women at the table, only possibly one was inclined to agree with her; the rest (including myself) either don't care about that at all, or just think it's too minor to be bothered over.

 

What are your standards on allowing your kids to watch TV? And, what age children? Do you pre-view any new show they want to start watching?

 

Obviously, this question is meant for families who do allow the kids to watch TV. There's not much point answering this question if you don't watch TV at all. :001_smile:

 

I agree with the mother in your group. Not only does the show objectify women, it also essentially acts as a "soft-pedal" introduction to the early sexualization of children. Yeah, I know that sounds like an extreme statement, but please bear in mind that the target audience is as young as ten years old. Rather than believe me, consider this sample from the episode "Not So Sweet 16":

 

Zack: Estiban, I need to talk to you man to man.

Estiban: Oh no! Please don’t tell me it’s about the birdies and the bees-eez!

Zack: Don’t worry, I already had that talk with my dad.

*Later in the same scene*

Zack: Well what was I doing when Maddie said that?

Cody: You were staring at her, thinking about that talk we had with Dad.

 

Think about that for a second. Sexual fantasy jokes for ten-year-olds are not only a problem, but what's even more of a problem, in my opinion, is that they're being presented in this context.

 

Sex, in this context, is not just an adult behavior reserved for adults, but is a behavior engaged in by the peers of ten-year-olds to older tweens and teens. Do boys have sexual fantasies about girls in real life? Oh, absolutely (and girls about boys, and so on) -- but I see not one single pertinent reason why very young audiences need to be effectively told that they (the ten-to-tweeners) are the subject of sexual fantasy. In a word...ew.

 

Moreover, I think it's deeply problematic to encourage young girls to have "crushes" on tween boys or objectify them, as of course the series asks its female viewers to do. Again, if this show were intended for an adult audience (or an older teen audience), it would be at least marginally more appropriate, but in this context and for this age, it is not.

 

Next, the show glorifies bad behavior. Zack, the "leader" of the twins, frequently deceives teachers, fakes dyslexia, and makes "D"s -- and gets his "weaker" twin to engage in foolish, idiotic behavior, a setup that essentially and repeatedly tells the viewers that "It's more fun to be bad," or "The good are weak." Neither of these is a lesson I want to teach.

 

The female lead, London Tipton, is a blatant Paris Hilton ripoff with no parental guidance. Spoiled and materialistic, she is a stereotype not only of wealthy people, but of the "dumb blonde," having been kicked out of several schools. This again is hardly a positive or appropriate message to send to young children, especially young girls. How many times will women have to fight against the stereotype that they're frivolous, materialistic, shopaholics who can't succeed academically? Puh-leez. What millennium is this, again?

 

Sorry, but these are not appropriate role models for my child to be watching hour after hour after hour. I wonder how many parents fail to see the connection between the kinds of behavior "normalized" for children on television and their children's own behavior?

 

Do characters in all forms of fiction (and reality) behave badly sometimes? Oh, sure -- and if these characters were usually or frequently "punished" for their actions (e.g., compelled by the authors to suffer the consequences of their foolish, impulsive, spoiled, materialistic, anti-academic decisions) and would learn from them, their behavior might be acceptable in an old-school Goofus and Gallant kind of way, but the fact is, they do not -- or not for more than one second before the "comedy default reset" kicks in and all is back to the status quo.

 

Forget about it. If I'm having my child watch television, it will be for intelligent, thought-provoking drama or comedy or documentaries -- or any show which compels her to think, analyze, and understand character development, themes, symbolism, motifs, and commentary on the "real world" or its phenomena. There is no reason to waste time on drivel such as Suite Life, Hannah Montana, or much else on Disney or Nickelodeon.

 

Thank you for providing this opportunity to rant. <Wipes foam from mouth and steps off soapbox.>

Edited July 13, 2010 by Charles Wallace

[HRAAB]

I never banned The Suite Life, but we always seemed to busy when it was on. :D What bothered me the most was the way it seemed to encourage young boy/girl relationship. The one brother (forget their who is who) always seemed to have a girlfriend, would be going on a date, alone in a hotel room with the lights down low. I think he would have been around 12 or 13 at the time. I do not care to have my girls see young romantic relationships as normal and non-problematic.

 

Besides, the show was incredibly stupid.

[Charles Wallace]

 

What I found was that DD was not mature enough to discern what is "funny" on TV vs. what is funny in real life. She would imitate some of the more rude and obnoxious characters (London) and say things to her sister that were jaw-droppingly rude without seeming to realize that it wasn't funny. For example, we were heading into a store to get new dresses for a choir performance for both girls, and DD8 turned to her younger sister and chirped, "You should get a brown dress to match that big ugly stain on your shirt! Ha ha!" :eek:

 

.

 

See, this is another example of what I'm talking about. A previous poster said something to the effect of "What happens in our home has a greater impact than what she sees on TV." Well, TV is part of what happens in our home.

 

Of course our children model their behavior after what they see around them; it's part of what becomes "normal." We have thousands upon thousands of years of evolving in order to match ourselves with the people around us -- I can hardly blame a young child for not bucking tens of thousands of years of human development!!

 

I also think it's very interesting what passes for humor. Mind you, despite the fact that I have a stick in a nonvisible location right now, I do find many things funny -- but I also tell my child that she can tell a great deal about a person from what passes for their sense of "humor." Mean-spirited nastiness is the norm for humor on many of those shows -- and that says a great deal about them, at least to me.

 

Good for you for locking the channel.

[ChristusG]

I am SO thankful that my 6 year old is still a fan of all the PBS/Playhouse Disney stuff. My kids watch Chuggington, Curious George, Clifford, My Friends Tigger & Pooh. The each get to choose one show per day. However, if DD wanted to watch the Z&C, Hannah Montana type of shows, it would probably be a "no" from me. I know there's lots of 6 year olds who love those shows, but for us, I don't want my 6 year old in the whole boyfriend/girlfriend, who likes who, name calling mindset that those shows seem to have.

[babysparkler]

My kids are quite limited. Other than professional sports (we love sports! We typically mute the commercials, though.), they are only allowed to watch one station: PBS (pre-approved shows only... word girl, clifford, etc. - no Arthur). They mostly watch dvd's/vhs tapes of G-rated movies that we approve ahead of time.

 

ETA: I've never even heard of Suite Life of Zack and Cody.

Edited July 13, 2010 by babysparkler

[phathui5]

I don't let my kids watch the "Suite Life" show either, for the same sorts of reasons.

 

We don't let our kids watch shows where kids children in the show have a bad attitude or where there are sexual situations. I don't like shows that seem to encourage children to be rude or sarcastic or that encourage dating.

 

We do let them watch Kenny the Shark, Grossology, Time Warp Trio, Avatar (the cartoon). Most non-cartoon shows for kids end up not making the cut. They do watch things I've taped on National Geographic. 9yo ds likes cooking shows.

Edited July 13, 2010 by phathui5

[TXMomof4]

I agree with the mother in your group. Not only does the show objectify women, it also essentially acts as a "soft-pedal" introduction to the early sexualization of children. Yeah, I know that sounds like an extreme statement, but please bear in mind that the target audience is as young as ten years old. Rather than believe me, consider this sample from the episode "Not So Sweet 16":

 

Zack: Estiban, I need to talk to you man to man.

Estiban: Oh no! Please don’t tell me it’s about the birdies and the bees-eez!

Zack: Don’t worry, I already had that talk with my dad.

*Later in the same scene*

Zack: Well what was I doing when Maddie said that?

Cody: You were staring at her, thinking about that talk we had with Dad.

 

Think about that for a second. Sexual fantasy jokes for ten-year-olds are not only a problem, but what's even more of a problem, in my opinion, is that they're being presented in this context.

 

Sex, in this context, is not just an adult behavior reserved for adults, but is a behavior engaged in by the peers of ten-year-olds to older tweens and teens. Do boys have sexual fantasies about girls in real life? Oh, absolutely (and girls about boys, and so on) -- but I see not one single pertinent reason why very young audiences need to be effectively told that they (the ten-to-tweeners) are the subject of sexual fantasy. In a word...ew.

 

Moreover, I think it's deeply problematic to encourage young girls to have "crushes" on tween boys or objectify them, as of course the series asks its female viewers to do. Again, if this show were intended for an adult audience (or an older teen audience), it would be at least marginally more appropriate, but in this context and for this age, it is not.

 

Next, the show glorifies bad behavior. Zack, the "leader" of the twins, frequently deceives teachers, fakes dyslexia, and makes "D"s -- and gets his "weaker" twin to engage in foolish, idiotic behavior, a setup that essentially and repeatedly tells the viewers that "It's more fun to be bad," or "The good are weak." Neither of these is a lesson I want to teach.

 

The female lead, London Tipton, is a blatant Paris Hilton ripoff with no parental guidance. Spoiled and materialistic, she is a stereotype not only of wealthy people, but of the "dumb blonde," having been kicked out of several schools. This again is hardly a positive or appropriate message to send to young children, especially young girls. How many times will women have to fight against the stereotype that they're frivolous, materialistic, shopaholics who can't succeed academically? Puh-leez. What millennium is this, again?

 

Sorry, but these are not appropriate role models for my child to be watching hour after hour after hour. I wonder how many parents fail to see the connection between the kinds of behavior "normalized" for children on television and their children's own behavior?

 

Do characters in all forms of fiction (and reality) behave badly sometimes? Oh, sure -- and if these characters were usually or frequently "punished" for their actions (e.g., compelled by the authors to suffer the consequences of their foolish, impulsive, spoiled, materialistic, anti-academic decisions) and would learn from them, their behavior might be acceptable in an old-school Goofus and Gallant kind of way, but the fact is, they do not -- or not for more than one second before the "comedy default reset" kicks in and all is back to the status quo.

 

Forget about it. If I'm having my child watch television, it will be for intelligent, thought-provoking drama or comedy or documentaries -- or any show which compels her to think, analyze, and understand character development, themes, symbolism, motifs, and commentary on the "real world" or its phenomena. There is no reason to waste time on drivel such as Suite Life, Hannah Montana, or much else on Disney or Nickelodeon.

 

Thank you for providing this opportunity to rant. <Wipes foam from mouth and steps off soapbox.>

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Yes, that is a little bit of overkill, but I can't say how much I agree with this. I don't have a problem even with some junk shows (I'm sure Homeward Bound isn't going to win any great awards for anything) but my kids are influenced in so many negative ways by what they have seen on TV that is would be wrong for me to allow it. The meanness, smart a** attitude, sass, crushes, etc. are all presented as the "cool" kid way of doing things and it doesn't fly at this house.

[hsbaby]

Well, being that I grew up watching Nightmare on Elm Street, Friday the 13th, etc., I thought I WAS being strict by limiting to the Disney channel and Nick:tongue_smilie:

Edited July 13, 2010 by hsbaby

[teamturner]

I agree with the mother in your group. Not only does the show objectify women, it also essentially acts as a "soft-pedal" introduction to the early sexualization of children. Yeah, I know that sounds like an extreme statement, but please bear in mind that the target audience is as young as ten years old. Rather than believe me, consider this sample from the episode "Not So Sweet 16":

 

Zack: Estiban, I need to talk to you man to man.

Estiban: Oh no! Please don’t tell me it’s about the birdies and the bees-eez!

Zack: Don’t worry, I already had that talk with my dad.

*Later in the same scene*

Zack: Well what was I doing when Maddie said that?

Cody: You were staring at her, thinking about that talk we had with Dad.

 

Think about that for a second. Sexual fantasy jokes for ten-year-olds are not only a problem, but what's even more of a problem, in my opinion, is that they're being presented in this context.

 

Sex, in this context, is not just an adult behavior reserved for adults, but is a behavior engaged in by the peers of ten-year-olds to older tweens and teens. Do boys have sexual fantasies about girls in real life? Oh, absolutely (and girls about boys, and so on) -- but I see not one single pertinent reason why very young audiences need to be effectively told that they (the ten-to-tweeners) are the subject of sexual fantasy. In a word...ew.

 

Moreover, I think it's deeply problematic to encourage young girls to have "crushes" on tween boys or objectify them, as of course the series asks its female viewers to do. Again, if this show were intended for an adult audience (or an older teen audience), it would be at least marginally more appropriate, but in this context and for this age, it is not.

 

Next, the show glorifies bad behavior. Zack, the "leader" of the twins, frequently deceives teachers, fakes dyslexia, and makes "D"s -- and gets his "weaker" twin to engage in foolish, idiotic behavior, a setup that essentially and repeatedly tells the viewers that "It's more fun to be bad," or "The good are weak." Neither of these is a lesson I want to teach.

 

The female lead, London Tipton, is a blatant Paris Hilton ripoff with no parental guidance. Spoiled and materialistic, she is a stereotype not only of wealthy people, but of the "dumb blonde," having been kicked out of several schools. This again is hardly a positive or appropriate message to send to young children, especially young girls. How many times will women have to fight against the stereotype that they're frivolous, materialistic, shopaholics who can't succeed academically? Puh-leez. What millennium is this, again?

 

Sorry, but these are not appropriate role models for my child to be watching hour after hour after hour. I wonder how many parents fail to see the connection between the kinds of behavior "normalized" for children on television and their children's own behavior?

 

Do characters in all forms of fiction (and reality) behave badly sometimes? Oh, sure -- and if these characters were usually or frequently "punished" for their actions (e.g., compelled by the authors to suffer the consequences of their foolish, impulsive, spoiled, materialistic, anti-academic decisions) and would learn from them, their behavior might be acceptable in an old-school Goofus and Gallant kind of way, but the fact is, they do not -- or not for more than one second before the "comedy default reset" kicks in and all is back to the status quo.

 

Forget about it. If I'm having my child watch television, it will be for intelligent, thought-provoking drama or comedy or documentaries -- or any show which compels her to think, analyze, and understand character development, themes, symbolism, motifs, and commentary on the "real world" or its phenomena. There is no reason to waste time on drivel such as Suite Life, Hannah Montana, or much else on Disney or Nickelodeon.

 

Thank you for providing this opportunity to rant. <Wipes foam from mouth and steps off soapbox.>

 

:hurray: :iagree:

[mrbmom77]

It is like a soap opera, isn't it.

 

 

The only thing you mentioned that we don't allow is Cartoon Network. I can't stand any of the show on that channel.

 

I'm pretty lenient with Disney and Nick, though I really dislike most of it, but no CN AT ALL! I came in from work one evening and found my son watching some Elvira ghost calling grandpa down the bathtub drain - it was just too creepy - so no more Courage the Cowardly Dog. When I mentioned this to his psychiatrist, she immediately said she would not recommend CN for a "normal" kid, much less an autistic one. She's been a child pyschiatrist a little longer than my 33 years, and worked with my son for 6 years at that time, so I trust her judgement. She and I together talked to him and forbid all CN.

[MyLittleWonders]

though we can't stand and ban Max & Ruby

 

:lol::lol:

Is there something I don't know about Max and Ruby, or did you just ban it because it irritates you too? Not laughing at you, I've banned even most PBS shows, I'm laughing because I find that show so devoid of any message or meaningful content I can't picture it offending anyone. :001_smile:

 

 

 

The reason for the Max & Ruby ban is the horrible way in which Ruby treats Max, her desire (so it seems whenever I have caught an episode) of doing what it takes to be "cool" and her general brattiness. One episode had her and her friend hoping to impress a seven year old boy who was going to be walking down the street - it was just wrong on so many levels to me. My boys are raised to not only play with each others (siblings are your closet friends, not your nemesis), but also play with girls and a mix of ages. So, to us, Max & Ruby goes against all of that - the little sibling is a bother (in a way similar to Oliva's attitude towards her little "bother" Ian, but at least her parents are there to shift that attitude), you only play with people your age or older (because that makes you "cool" if you have a friend that is older), and you act generally bratty to any adult who happens to pop into your life. :tongue_smilie:

 

And I totally agree with the analysis of Z & C from Charles Wallace above. When we do "ban" a show - we do make it clear to our boys why we don't approve of the show and why, in our opinion, the show is detrimental. Usually ds#1 (and sometimes ds#2) will have picked up on the same feelings (not necessarily the sexual innuendos and such from Z & C, but more of the general feeling that the show does not exemplify values we hold), and at least at this age, don't disagree. There are plenty of things they do like to watch that we are okay with, and there's not a lot of TV watching time in a day, so they don't mind cutting out a show when there's something else they'd rather watch.

[Mom-ninja.]

I'm very picky about TV. At this point my kids are only allowed to watch Sprout or dvds.

 

They also watch programs like How It's Made and such.

[Jenny in Atl]

I'm very liberal about the content, but super conservative about the quality. :lol:

[Barry Goldwater]

There was a really interesting chapter in Nuture Shock that discussed how "educational" television, the kind that PBS specializes in, leads to aggression and bullying. It really summed up a lot of the things I don't like about kids' programs.

 

For me, introducing the idea that it's normal to hate your siblings, and to be jealous when a new baby arrives, and to make snotty remarks to your friends, and that a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship is expected in middle school--these are all things that I don't want to normalize. So we watch little kid shows on tv (Blues Clues, Curious George, etc), but most of our older kid viewing is stuff like NASCAR, or Liberty's Kids, or Magic School Bus, and even some of those give me pause at times.

 

THERE IT IS, RIGHT THERE...I LOATHE that sort of brainwashing...

[jewellsmommy]

We are strange about what we allow and what we don't. Dd can watch anything on animal planet. I don't mind her watching about parasites, animal cops or shocking videos where animals have attacked a crowd of people. :001_huh:

 

BUT, we do not watch any of the preteen/teen shows on Disney or Nick. My friend laughed when I referred to Hanna Montana as a 'gateway show.' The only non little kid show on nick that we allow is spongebob.

 

It has never been an issue where we have had to ban something that she wants to watch. She seems to naturally mimic our attitudes and responds to our prompts. So, we watch anything new together and evaluate it together. Thankfully, it has never been a fight.

 

In my experience, it is not the overt or blatant that is the problem. Dd knows that when she sees it and rejects it. It is the subtle shifting of priorities and quiet invasiveness of teen like attitude in shows that I find dangerous.

[Ginevra]

One reason we don't have cable is because of so much junk on tv.

 

See, I always find this puzzling. I think the great thing about satellite/cable is that you can escape the idiotic network shows. When we moved into our current home, there was a little debacle for a month or two and the result was that we had no satellite for a while. I found nothing at all that was worthwhile (for myself; I liked some PBS shows like Clifford for the kids). I recall that the shows that I kept finding in the evening when I was free to watch a bit were America's Top Model, something called Paradise Beach or something like that, where the goal was to see who "hooked up", CSI, which I might have ordinarily found interesting, but had just been through a tragedy and couldn't cope with murders and the like. Or network news. :ack2:

 

DH and I watch almost 100% satellite shows, although we don't watch too many. I watch some TLC, food network, fox news, weather channel, history channel and sometimes a few other things here and there. Glad I have those.

[M&MsMom]

:iagree:

We are strange about what we allow and what we don't. Dd can watch anything on animal planet. I don't mind her watching about parasites, animal cops or shocking videos where animals have attacked a crowd of people. :001_huh:

 

BUT, we do not watch any of the preteen/teen shows on Disney or Nick. My friend laughed when I referred to Hanna Montana as a 'gateway show.' The only non little kid show on nick that we allow is spongebob.

 

It has never been an issue where we have had to ban something that she wants to watch. She seems to naturally mimic our attitudes and responds to our prompts. So, we watch anything new together and evaluate it together. Thankfully, it has never been a fight.

 

In my experience, it is not the overt or blatant that is the problem. Dd knows that when she sees it and rejects it. It is the subtle shifting of priorities and quiet invasiveness of teen like attitude in shows that I find dangerous.

[BikeBookBread]

We ditched cable last year, and set up a digital antenna -- we get the standard "1980's stations" as my DH calls them: ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox and five wonderful PBS stations (kids, world, create, standard and V Me). Kids TV was one of the main reasons we killed cable. We hated the unending consumer tie-ins, how sassy the kids were, etc... (not that PBS kids shows are perfect).

 

But PDG has discovered "grown up" TV (streaming on Netflix) and thinks she doesn't want children's TV anymore -- she loves the BBC Robin Hood, is begging me to watch Dr. Who (but I think The Ood and Cybermen would give her some pretty bad nightmares!), loves travel shows on PBS World and recently saw her first classic "Bewitched" episode...thought it was the best thing ever. LLL still loves Curious George (which I kind of love, too :001_smile:) and Sesame (especially Elmo).

 

We probably let our kids watch shows that are more grown up than our friends do, but are pretty selective of which grown-up shows they can watch (if I knew PDG wouldn't have nightmares, I'd have no problem letting her watch Dr. Who, for example).

[OrganicAnn]

We don't have cable. My DD watches some PBS kids programs. We find them very good. She sometimes watches Nature if it is not too violent (you can get the ratings on the PBS website). We avoid network tv (the commercials alone are worth avoiding). DD is 6

[Mejane]

Just another dumb but harmless Disney show, imo.

[Disney Dreaming]

It is like a soap opera, isn't it.

 

 

The only thing you mentioned that we don't allow is Cartoon Network. I can't stand any of the show on that channel.

 

 

DD watches Scooby Doo on Cartoon Network. Every.time.it.comes.on. Nothing else.

[melissel]

Well, I had this whole post brewing in my head as I read, with multi-quotes and everything, but now that I'm done with the thread I'll just say that I kind of love Charles Wallace right now. I agree with every word he (she?) said.

 

We had no real Disney Channel exposure until a few weeks ago when we were on vacation in a beach condo with me all burned out and alone with the girls and DD4 needing something to do to keep her occupied (DD7 would have been happy to read herself into a stupor every day, but DD4's not quite there yet). I wasn't paying attention and was needing the e-babysitter, so we got sucked in. Since then, there have been a few occasions where I've let them watch it at home, and one day I finally sat down this weekend and watched a few episodes of Suite Life on Deck/Hannah Montana with them. I could not believe my eyes and ears. I cannot believe the big deal that was made about seeing models, dating, dating twins, the Suite Life teacher being heartbroken because she can't find a man, objectifying women, the rude ways they speak to each other...

 

My girls are way too young to watch that kind of thing objectively (insert big-time mama guilt here), but more importantly, they're like little sponges, soaking it all up. They LOVE London! They think Alex is super cool and funny in her negativity, and they think Justin's a dork! Ugh. The things I have heard come out of their mouths over the last few weeks!

 

Anyway, I'm not someone who's generally too worried about content. I'm pretty liberal. My girls know almost all the words to the In the Heights soundtrack, and I don't even flinch when they sing the curse words (though they don't know the "Tell Me Something I Don't Know" song--that one goes a bit too far). But I do believe that those Disney shows make that kind of snarky, snotty, oversexualized, overfocused-on-appearance tween/teen culture a normal thing, and that's completely at odds with how we're trying to make our home culture. In retrospect, I'm so sorry I allowed it to creep in at all.

 

(Full disclosure: I will admit to loving The Wizards of Waverly Place myself, though. That recent episode, where Shakira turns out to be their Uncle Kelbo, was completely hilarious. The girls didn't even get it! I've been debating whether it would be weird for me to record it for myself :blushing:)

[Guest mrsjamiesouth]

The Sweet Life was actually one of the shows that led to us booting television :p I could go on and on and on about that show. Sorry for the pointless post, but I thought it was hilarious that you would name one of those shows that really gets me worked up :D

 

 

This show really bothered me too! It was after my ds9 made a comment about "gross armpit hair" that I forbade it.

 

I hate that Disney and Nick have no "childrens" programs anymore. Everything is aimed at teens. What is my 9 yo supposed to watch, he is beyond PBS? I only let them watch PBS or Movies lately, I cancelled cable.

 

I don't like how "dads" are always made to look stupid. I do not like all the references to sex and breaking up with boyfriend/girlfriend. What happened to shows actually for children?

 

Mine are not allowed to watch Simpsons, King of the Hill, or other "adult cartoons."

[Guest mrsjamiesouth]

 

(Full disclosure: I will admit to loving The Wizards of Waverly Place myself, though. That recent episode, where Shakira turns out to be their Uncle Kelbo, was completely hilarious. The girls didn't even get it! I've been debating whether it would be weird for me to record it for myself :blushing:)

 

 

:lol::lol: My friend and I were just talking about this the other day! She told me she can't wait to watch the Premier of Hannah Montana. And I really loved that episode of the Wizards!!

I just don't think they are appropriate for younger kids.

[JenC3]

Besides movies that are mostly Disney or Pixar my 4 & almost 7 yr olds watch:

 

Charlie and Lola-LOVE C & L!

Jane and the Dragon- strong female lead

Tom & Jerry

Little Einsteins

 

Dh lets ds watch Ironman and SW Clone wars cartoons, but I'm sort of against that.

 

BTW I HATE Max & Ruby all for the reasons listed!

[simka2]

Just this morning I sat watching icarly with the kids...it was fun to hear them talk about the bad decisions some of the characters were making and the consequences that played out. Someone was totaly humilated by their friend, and we were able to discuss how that feels and how the friend apologize and tried to make up for her bad choice.

 

I'm not sure when exactly I changed camps, but I wouldn't trade the rich, gut level honest and humorous conversations that come out of this from my kiddos. When I was working so hard to insulate them and make sure they didn't become desensitized immorality, I really was just robbing us of some bonding time and making the world a place to hide from (or one they had to hide from me.)

[melissel]

Just this morning I sat watching icarly with the kids...it was fun to hear them talk about the bad decisions some of the characters were making and the consequences that played out. Someone was totaly humilated by their friend, and we were able to discuss how that feels and how the friend apologize and tried to make up for her bad choice.

 

I'm not sure when exactly I changed camps, but I wouldn't trade the rich, gut level honest and humorous conversations that come out of this from my kiddos. When I was working so hard to insulate them and make sure they didn't become desensitized immorality, I really was just robbing us of some bonding time and making the world a place to hide from (or one they had to hide from me.)

 

You know, I hear you. My concerns are not immorality at all, actually. My concerns are more the lens with which they view their lives and the people they interact with. We have enough problems with attitude and melodrama without them getting more ideas from TV. Today while I was showing DD4 how to open the top of a new box of crayons, she said to me, "Mom, you're EMBARRASSING me!" The girl has no idea what that even means, and there's no reason the concept of being embarrassed by your parents even has to be artificially introduced. And over the last few days, she's been pointing out to me people/characters who would "make a good couple, don't you think?" Except that today she told me that DD7 and DH would make a good couple :001_huh: This does not need to be part of the way she views her world! Not yet, and again, not via this artificial introduction.

 

Now I will say that we had a very thoughtful discussion over an episode of Wizards of Waverly Place about how Alex's harsh negativity made the kids at school not like her. But IMO, there are plenty of examples in our real lives or in the books we read every day that I can use to make that point. I don't need TV to help me do that. All I know is that that four-year-old already has attitude to spare, and I don't need her picking up anymore. Honestly, that's one of the main reasons I don't ever want to put her in school--she picks up mannerisms and traits at the drop of a hat, and she loves to actively emulate what she sees in the girls around her. It's my job to be the filter for that.

 

As the mother of girls, I'm sensitive to the subtle messages that they receive from our pop culture. IMO, messages about tricking your friends so you can be the only one to walk away with a gang of hot swimsuit models on your arm are more dangerous than watching a cartoon cat and mouse smash each other over the head with household appliances or Bugs Bunny tie a knot in a rifle barrel in situations that are clearly nothing at all like real life. And honestly, I'm nearly blind to subtext, so for me to see the messages I see means that they must not be as subtle as I think :lol:

[Shawna in Texas]

I'm very liberal about the content, but super conservative about the quality. :lol:

 

:iagree:

 

We watch a lot of good TV. :tongue_smilie:

[Parrothead]

(Full disclosure: I will admit to loving The Wizards of Waverly Place myself, though. That recent episode, where Shakira turns out to be their Uncle Kelbo, was completely hilarious. The girls didn't even get it! I've been debating whether it would be weird for me to record it for myself :blushing:)

Dh goes around doing the Kelbo dance.