Should pastors be paid? scripture to back it up?

[beccad777]

I absolutely think pastors should be paid! They spend an incredible amount of time working and preparing sermons. How is that different than working a 'regular' job? Would you expect your spouse to work their job without compensation? How would you support your family and still do well at your job? The answer is that you could not. Pastors have a higher calling and should be paid so that they can devote their time and energy to that calling. They should be paid a fair and modest wage, and should be accountable to the church.

 

Our church is very open with the budget and exactly where the money goes. Every month we have a business meeting (that all members are encouraged to attend). Everyone is given a printout of the church budget and bank account balances. The amounts spent on each category are logged as well as how much came in. Any questions on specifics are always answered.

 

Oh, and our pastor doesn't pull any punches with his sermons. He tells you exactly what the Bible says and lets the chips fall where they may. He also does not know who tithes and who doesn't. That way he is not tempted to omit anything or preach directly about something with a particular person in mind. A very smart thing in my opinion.

[sassenach]

. Then that shouldn't be part of his job description but I read countless times that many of you count that as his job. Isnt' it all of our jobs? If my friends can't count on me in a time of crisis...then shame on me.

 

Again, thanks so much for all your replies.

 

Yes, it is everyone's job, BUT when you are a pastor, the whole congregation feels intimately tied to you. I don't know about you, but the circle of friends that would call me before ministry was about 10 families. Now that dh is a pastor, it's 100 families. And let me tell you, SOMEONE is always in a crisis. I really don't think it's possible to explain to someone who has never been in vocational ministry just how constant the demand is. 1 Tim 5:17-18 I believe has already been suggested.

 

My husband left an executive level position in business to do vocational ministry. He works harder, for much less money. It makes me really sad to think that anyone would wish us to see less of my dh, and sacrifice more (which frankly is more than you could imagine). I'm happy to sacrifice for God and grateful that it's not for man.

 

For the record the reason housing allowances exsist is because of our federal income tax system. You really shouldn't knock any pastor for that. It is factored into their salary, it's not a bonus.

 

I have seen the abuse you speak of. I've seen pastors that are going to suffer before God for their greed, but certainly I know many more that labor for Jesus and His bride in a way that is worthy of the financial support that they get.

 

No vacation homes here. We don't even own a home. Just a tiny home that we rent. No new cars, just a couple of 100k+ mileage cars that get us by. Any vacations we get are generally gifted to us. Our first real vaca in 3 years is coming up in Sept. My mom is gifting it to us. Everything we have is by the grace of God, period.

 

I hope that you prayerfully consider speaking with an elder within your church to address your concerns.

Edited July 10, 2010 by Shannon831

[CAMom]

I think you're all insane. Pastoring takes time, and while vacation homes and extravagant spending is on one end of the spectrum, condemning your pastor to living in poverty shows a meaness and smallness that is repugnant.

 

There is a middle road people.

 

John 10:12 The laborer is worthy of his hire.

 

And shame on you.

 

I'm not anywhere near bold enough to say it like this but....:iagree:...;)

 

I've never met a pastor that does not give at least 40 hours a week to his ministry. In fact, they usually give much more! I have also had the experience of my pastor receiving a "salary" so small that there was no way he could support his family so he also had to keep his full time job as an attorney.

 

Guess what? Congregants don't care that you also have a full time job. They want you available when they need you.

 

For Scriptural support, I'd go to 1 Timothy 5:17 "Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.

 

1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages."

 

ETA: Guess I should have read the rest of the thread so as not to just repeat what others said. ;)

Edited July 10, 2010 by CAMom

[Melinda in VT]

I spent the first 30 years of my life in the LDS (Mormon) church, which, as a couple of other posters have mentioned, has no paid clergy at the local level.

 

For the past 8 years, I've been associated with several churches in the UU and UCC denomination.

 

I am a big believer in paying clergy.

 

The bishops I knew as a Mormon were good men, trying their best to balance the demands of calling, family, and employment. But most of them had no real training in counseling or pastoring.

 

The paid clergy I have known are simply more knowledgable and better prepared to counsel and aid the people with whom they come in contact. They have more to draw upon when they lead and serve.

 

Having paid clergy doesn't mean everyone else is off the hook. In healthy churches there will still be a lot of volunteer work and ministering one to another. And paying your clergy doesn't mean you then get to demand their time 24/24 and 7/7. Not having other employment makes it easier for a pastor to achieve balance, but it's still something the pastor and the congregation have to value and prioritize. It's to no one's advantage if the pastor collapses or becomes a worn out shell of a pastor.

 

I used to quote Paul as the reason why we shouldn't have paid clergy. And then I looked at the verse and realized the Paul was absolutely defending the right of preachers to be supported by the congregation. He was just trying to win points by noting that he wasn't insisting they support him. ;)

[Jugglin'5]

 

 

Having paid clergy doesn't mean everyone else is off the hook. In healthy churches there will still be a lot of volunteer work and ministering one to another. And paying your clergy doesn't mean you then get to demand their time 24/24 and 7/7. Not having other employment makes it easier for a pastor to achieve balance, but it's still something the pastor and the congregation have to value and prioritize. It's to no one's advantage if the pastor collapses or becomes a worn out shell of a pastor.

 

 

:iagree: I think this is absolutely key to a healthy church!

[*********]

I think one of the fundamental problems with this question is the fact that most churches today are not running the way churches were intended to run.

 

The New Testament gives us a clear picture of how churches should be run by a pluarlity of elders. There should not be one pastor 'in charge' of everyone/everything else.

 

We attend a housechurch. You know, like the kind they had in the new testament. :) We don't have a pastor. We have several older, wise men who are elders in our church. They all share whatever the Lord puts on their hearts to share when we meet. All the families are available to each other with just a phone call. If someone is sick, or has a baby, or whatever the need, it is not one person's job to tend to it. It is the job of all of us. That's what makes us a church.

 

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 9:

 

 

7Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk? 8Do I say this merely from a human point of view? Doesn't the Law say the same thing? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain."[b] Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? Yes, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. 11If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? 12If others have this right of support from you, shouldn't we have it all the more?

But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ. 13Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? 14In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. 15But I have not used any of these rights. And I am not writing this in the hope that you will do such things for me. I would rather die than have anyone deprive me of this boast. 16Yet when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, for I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! 17If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. 18What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make use of my rights in preaching it.

 

So yes, I believe that those who go preach the gospel, SPREAD the gospel like Paul was, have the right to be supported by other believers. So apostles/missionaries would need support. However, they can support themselves, if that is what they feel the Lord would have them to do. And they also could accept support sometimes and from some people, and not accept support other times or from some people. Just like Paul did.

 

Again, I think a fundamental problem with this question is that what a pastor is in today's modern American church is usually vastly different from what a pastor was in the first century church. For example, you can see in Acts 4 that the body supported all of the members, whoever had need. Support is not reserved for people with certain callings.

[CAMom]

Shouldn't we be able to call on any brother or sister in Christ in a time of emergency and they should drop everything to be there? If they really care they would be there ....why should it be delegated to a pastor only as his responsibility. We have failed each other as brothers and sisters if we are not there for each other.....and that means at 2am. As a pastor, would he still be there if he wasn't paid...if someone's child or spouse had died or was gravely sick or wounded, woudn't he come because he loves them and wants to grieve with them? Of course he would. Then that shouldn't be part of his job description but I read countless times that many of you count that as his job. Isnt' it all of our jobs? If my friends can't count on me in a time of crisis...then shame on me.

 

Again, thanks so much for all your replies.

 

Could your husband leave his paying job at 10am to rush to the hospital to give communion to a dying elderly member of the congregation? Could he receive calls on his cell phone multiple times per day to mediate complaints from folks in the congregation? Could he take time off of work in the middle of the week to preside over funeral services? Could he perform weddings on Saturdays?

 

Could you drop everything and leave your small children at home to rush off to a couple in a marriage crisis?

 

Church life doesn't happen in the "off hours."

 

Additionally, pastors (elders) are responsible for the souls of their flock. It is their job to nurture them and feed them; to facilitate their very sanctification. Personally, I want my earthly shepherd to not be distracted and exhausted from trying to work two full time (plus) jobs while he is shepherding my soul.

[Greta]

I grew up in a denomination which expected congregation leaders to be volunteers, and to support themselves financially. I have seen families devastated and people's faith utterly destroyed because of poor decisions made by over-worked, under-qualified spiritual leaders.

 

In this denomination, there was no seminary, and the leaders were given very little training and usually had very little experience before taking on the task. That is because the pressures of family life, full-time jobs, AND congregation leadership were so much that these men would just get burned out so quickly, and the turn-over rate was through the roof. They were desperate to find someone, anyone, to replace them so that they could step down. This combination of pressures and this lack of knowledge, wisdom, and experience was absolutely devastating for the congregation.

 

You're talking about a group of people who are responsible in a major way for the spiritual walk of an entire community. It is WORTH paying for! It is worth paying for so that these spiritual leaders can get the education and training that they need to do this very important job properly. It is worth paying for so that our spiritual leaders can devote themselves to this calling, and not have to divide their time and energy between conflicting pressures.

 

I look at it this way. If I had to have surgery, I would want that surgery performed by someone for whom medicine was their full-time career, who had years of training, AND years of experience, who had devoted their entire professional life to medicine. I would not trust it to someone who dabbles in medicine outside of his other full-time job. I would want a professional. And my spiritual health is even more important than my physical health!

 

I know I'm staking a very strong claim here. My experiences have given me some very strong feelings on this. I hope you understand.

Edited July 10, 2010 by GretaLynne

[Homemaker]

Wow. I am shocked that there are many of you who don't think pastors should be paid or paid very little. I'll be totally upfront, I am a PW and I believe pastors should be paid and paid well. My husband does not make an "excess" amount, but we do make more than the average American salary. He has also worked at chrurches where the senior pastor made 100k or more and I totally believe they deserve it and hve never understood the idea (even before I was a pw) that "my pastor shouldn't make more than me." idea. Why???? Why should he not be allowed to make a good living? Why are you okay with your doctor or someone "normal" making a decent living? We are ALL called to witnesses for Christ in whatever we do, does your husband make a salary for whatever he is called to do? Why is that okay?

 

For those who don't believe pastors should paid must honestly have no idea as to what pastors do.

[Starr]

I'm always amazed by what people think their pastor's lives should be like and how they imagine them to be. It's rarely anywhere near reality. The minute something comes up in someones life all bets are off and they need time now. Multiply that by whatever. And those little conversations that you love that keep you uplifted or help you through a bad or good time that you have at the store or a party or a street fair or after church or the I know it's your day off or the... come on folks. Good pastors know more about the Bible and are yours whenever you want them and they belong to those folk at the nursing home and when the hospital calls and when the funeral home calls and for the family from out of town when a loved one is ill or dies or the call about a kid in college from the kids pastor far away. And a good sermon or Bible study and keeping up on biblical studies and greek and reading through the Bible continuously. I could go on for days. This is in addition to active parishioners who are available and help with plenty. Sitting around and getting rich is a joke. We have to decide to take those 4 hours off in a week and do something fun or mow the lawn. If you want a worker pastor with another job you will find a pastor with less time for his family and you will still want the same access, experience, education, biblical knowledge,...Yes Jesus was an itinerant preacher and called his disciples to follow him. So really we should all give everything up and put on our sandals and start preaching instead or worrying just how rich the pastor is. If you aren't on board with the way your church board does things find another church, get on the board, make things happen.

[Mom in High Heels]

I think you're all insane. Pastoring takes time, and while vacation homes and extravagant spending is on one end of the spectrum, condemning your pastor to living in poverty shows a meaness and smallness that is repugnant.

 

There is a middle road people.

 

 

:iagree: YES! And dh and I aren't even Christian. I don't see why a person who really devotes time, energy and love to his "flock" shouldn't be compensated with a salary. There are lots of jobs that the workers consider "callings" but they all get paid (teaching, adoption workers, social workers are a few that I can think of). Why, because a pastor's calling is religious, should they not be paid. They have to eat too. Many have families to take care of. Why should they suffer because they want to help? My uncle is a pastor (he loves dh and I and sees us as a challenge, though he never gets "preachy") and believe me he is NOT wealthy. He is paid a pittance and works harder than almost anyone I know. He doesn't even have a huge church, but it is a respectable size. He probably works 60-70 hours a week. There's no way he could hold down a regular job and still be as available as he is for his parishioners. He's a very well liked and well respected man, but wealthy he is not. If my aunt (who is now in her late 60's) didn't work, he would have had to leave the church to get a job. He has many, many older parishioners and spends half his time at bed sides, funerals and comforting widow/ers. I believe he is worth 10x what he's paid.

[Joanne]

"Ministry" and "calling" are not mutually exclusive with compensation and even luxury. :confused:

 

Many homeschool families have felt called to start a homeschool related business. I expect the Clarksons, the Bauers, the Maxwells to follow their calling AND profit.

 

To me, in a Godly church design, it is the community supporting the work of the Pastor(s).

 

Excess and extremes are handled by accountability.

 

Boundaries are handled by good mental health.

[the4Rs]

Again, thanks for all sharing. It has been interesting to read. And for the record...those of you up in arms over this topic....it was merely a question I had that I was struggling to find the answer to....so to those who gave scripture reference...THANK YOU. That was the most help.

 

I know this can be a hot topic for some here. I am not belittling what you or your spouse or your pastor is doing. I am asking honest sincere questions. I am now bowing out of this discussion because I believe all that can be said and should be said on the topic has been said.

 

have a good day!

[Garga]

Again, I think a fundamental problem with this question is that what a pastor is in today's modern American church is usually vastly different from what a pastor was in the first century church. For example, you can see in Acts 4 that the body supported all of the members, whoever had need. Support is not reserved for people with certain callings.

 

But the early church had completely different problems from churches today, so you can't apply Acts 4 to all churches today. And you can't necessarily think that today's churches differing from the early churches are wrong.

 

The early church, especially in Jerusalem, consisted of newly converted Jews. As soon as the Jewish leaders found out that someone was Christian, the person was ex-communicated. Part of excommunication meant that no one would do business with the Christian. The only way to survive was to band together (as in Acts when they started pooling their goods.) It wasn't necessarily a spiritual thing, it was just a practical thing. If you can't buy food at the market because people refuse to sell to you...what are you going to do? You start to support each other as a family, rather than each person separately supporting themselves.

 

My vote goes towards paying the pastors. The precedent is set with the scriptures other posters have given, especially in regards to the Levite priests. (And with Jesus instructing his disciples to expect people to pay their way.)

 

Our churches today are set up more like the synagogues were (which wasn't meant to be completely overturned in the New Testament), rather than the brand-new early churches which were facing a unique set of problems (persecutions, even to death penalties.)

 

I believe both ways of having "church" are lovely and acceptable to God--a big church with formal structure, and also the small home churches that are set up more like a family. With that said, if you are the pastor of a big church which models the Levite priests, you should be compensated, as they were.

Edited July 10, 2010 by Garga

[elegantlion]

I definately think the pastor should be paid. It isn't like it is only a Sunday gig. They preside over weddings and funerals, they spend time counseling the members and a host of things. I dislike mega churches and I do feel ministers commanding huge salaries and just plain wrong.

 

But, I don't think it is ok to just expect someone to live in poverty.I wouldn't want an uneducated preacher and preachers aren't denied having a spouse and children.

 

:iagree:

 

Wow. I am shocked that there are many of you who don't think pastors should be paid or paid very little. I'll be totally upfront, I am a PW and I believe pastors should be paid and paid well. My husband does not make an "excess" amount, but we do make more than the average American salary. He has also worked at chrurches where the senior pastor made 100k or more and I totally believe they deserve it and hve never understood the idea (even before I was a pw) that "my pastor shouldn't make more than me." idea. Why???? Why should he not be allowed to make a good living? Why are you okay with your doctor or someone "normal" making a decent living? We are ALL called to witnesses for Christ in whatever we do, does your husband make a salary for whatever he is called to do? Why is that okay?

 

For those who don't believe pastors should paid must honestly have no idea as to what pastors do.

 

I'm not a PW, but I do agree pastors should be paid well, but I think that about teachers, firemen, policemen, etc. I think it also depends on the size of the congregation and economic level of the area.

 

In our previous church it was almost expected that you didn't just get a pastor (we had several on staff), but you got the wife as part of the package deal. Most we busy having and raising families. One pastor was older and his wife worked full time. She stood in front of the congregation at some meeting and (with smile on face) reminded everyone he was the pastor, she wasn't. There was a little bit of nervous laughter in the pews. She could get away with it, they had been in the church for years, she had a sparkling personality. However my heart went out to some of these younger pastors and their families who had to walk on eggshells around others. They weren't getting paid enough to have the entire family on display 24/7. And I'm not talking about just being good Christians either, there was a lot of nitpicking.

 

I want my pastor paid and paid well so he can devote full time effort to his calling and not worry about how he's going to provide economic support for his family. I don't want to provide for his 2nd beach house, but I'd like him to have some stability.

[Brilliant]

As the wife of a former pastor, I have first-hand knowledge of the fact that a pastor is supposed to be on call ALL the time. My hubby pastored a church, full-time, but received a part-time salary. So I worked to support the family also.

 

Here are some examples of demands placed on us AFTER we left the church:

 

One time someone called in the middle of the night because their car had broken down and they were asking dh to come rescue them (45 minutes away).

 

Another time, hubby did marital counseling (for no charge) for a couple he had married while he was the pastor - and one spouse cheated on the other (after we left the church).

 

Another time, a woman showed up on our doorstep before dawn with a handgun (!) that she had taken from her sleeping adult son - he had been on a violent rampage and threatened her with it - when he fell asleep she grabbed the gun and, afraid to start the car for fear of waking him, walked the 2 miles or so to our house. Days later, after she ended up in a shelter, we got threatening phone calls from said son for helping his mom escape.

 

As Christian brothers & sisters, we would be expected to help these people in need. But they didn't call on us because we were friends in Christ - they called on us b/c my husband had been their pastor.

 

Maybe church should be different. Maybe the members should be able to call on each other in time of need, instead of always calling on the pastor. But that's not how it works now. So for most churches, I don't think the pastor can be expected to be the full-time on-call person, and hold down a "real" paying job, and maintain any semblance of family life.

[Impish]

I think you're all insane. Pastoring takes time, and while vacation homes and extravagant spending is on one end of the spectrum, condemning your pastor to living in poverty shows a meaness and smallness that is repugnant.

 

There is a middle road people.

 

John 10:12 The laborer is worthy of his hire.

 

And shame on you.

 

Yep, and Paul wasn't supporting a family either.

 

I prefer small churches, ours is too big right now for me to be content there. And too far away.

 

When we were going to a smaller church, dh said he didn't even want his pastor to have to mow his lawn. He felt he needed time to study, pray and get ready to feed his flock come Sunday.

:iagree:I know I've said it before, but I :001_wub: you!!

One thought though...

 

Shouldn't we be able to call on any brother or sister in Christ in a time of emergency and they should drop everything to be there? If they really care they would be there ....why should it be delegated to a pastor only as his responsibility. We have failed each other as brothers and sisters if we are not there for each other.....and that means at 2am. As a pastor, would he still be there if he wasn't paid...if someone's child or spouse had died or was gravely sick or wounded, woudn't he come because he loves them and wants to grieve with them? Of course he would. Then that shouldn't be part of his job description but I read countless times that many of you count that as his job. Isnt' it all of our jobs? If my friends can't count on me in a time of crisis...then shame on me.

 

Again, thanks so much for all your replies.

Yes, to a point. My dh couldn't run out the door at 3 am several days a week, his health would suffer, he'd have to take time off work, so our family would suffer financially. For *me* to run at 3am means calling a taxi, since I don't drive, and then the rise in pain levels that would leave me incapacitated for at least the rest of the day, if not for the next 2 or 3.

 

I consider it part of my OB's job to be on call, and that he's paid for it. Why shouldn't a Pastor be?

 

I personally think that its insulting, the idea that its not a part of his job, but of his calling as a Christian. I suppose, then, that it would be fine if you call a Pastor, only to be told he can't make it, he's tired, having already been with another family the night before, or needs to work in the am, and suggests you call another brother or sister in Christ? I can't honestly think of a parishioner that would be ok with that response.

[ChrisOR]

In the early church, the head of the church were lay people, but, the apostles weren't for the most part. They traveled and expected the church to care for their needs. The Bible says in 1Tim. 5:18 that a worker is worth his wage.

 

If we want our pastors to work secular jobs (and many of them do--my dh did for several years to supplement us) then we need to not expect so much from them. The church lay people need to either lower their expectations of what their church will provide for them, or they need to stand up and pick up the slack of what they expect from their church.

 

I think the person who doesn't get paid, but is expected to do as much is the pastor's wife! Oftentimes, she's the one working to supplement and still expected to make it to all the services, run the women's ministry, and help teach when the church needs her to, and visit when people in the church need it.

 

I agree with this. I'm a pastor's kid too, and my dad always worked several other jobs at the same time, making a small income (not even close to a full-time income for the full-time job he felt expected to give back) from the church which never had any other paid staff people. My mom was the unpaid secretary and Sunday School coordinator. Even a "small" church asks a lot of their pastor and his wife, and people do need to help out more. The amount of work to be done, even in a church without weekly activities outside of Sunday services, could be shared better. At least the encouragement the extra help would bring to the pastor and his wife would be huge.

[Renee in NC]

Since priests give themselves full-time (as in 24/7) to the service of God, yes, they need to be supported. How that is accomplished, however, is entirely dependent on order/vows/diocese/etc. From what I have seen, the parish pays housing, utilities, housekeeper, etc. Some priests take a vow of poverty while others do not.

[RobinF]

As a pastor's wife for 20 years and a pastors child for 40 years, all I can say is wow.

 

I grew up in the ministry. I knew exactly what I was getting into when I married my dh, knowing up front that he was called to ministry. We would and have done it when we have been severely underpaid (think well below the poverty level in America) and would do it again if we needed too BUT should we have to do so, if the church can support us. No.

 

In the past two weeks we have taken calls late at night and counseled couples dealing with marital problems. We have had counseling sessions with others who needed advice dealing with family issues. We have talked with young couple about parenting and financial advice. We have helped church members whose spouses are deployed. We both lead weekly Bible studies in addition to Sunday services. I don't know of many professions that require you to not only be on call 24/7 FOREVER, but also require you to have the knowledge of such a broad range of specialities.

 

When we go on vacation we are still available. My dh never turns off his cell phone. The thought that we should do all of that and then have him work another job :001_huh:.

 

And just so you understand we firmly believe that our job is to equip the people in our church to do the job of ministry in the church but really there are times when they need to talk to dh or even myself. We are experienced and knowledgable about certain things and they need that support. That is why my dh makes the big bucks. :lol:

[Rosy]

I won't requote the pertinent Scriptures, but I think pastors ABSOLUTELY (yes, I'm yelling--sort of) should be paid. Absolutely.

 

Shouldn't we be able to call on any brother or sister in Christ in a time of emergency and they should drop everything to be there? If they really care they would be there ....why should it be delegated to a pastor only as his responsibility. We have failed each other as brothers and sisters if we are not there for each other.....and that means at 2am. As a pastor, would he still be there if he wasn't paid...if someone's child or spouse had died or was gravely sick or wounded, woudn't he come because he loves them and wants to grieve with them? Of course he would. Then that shouldn't be part of his job description but I read countless times that many of you count that as his job. Isnt' it all of our jobs? If my friends can't count on me in a time of crisis...then shame on me.

Yes we should...but this isn't a pastor's job. His job is to devote himself to the teaching of the Word and prayer. The early church leaders delegated "waiting tables" (caring for the needs of widows) to deacons. (Acts 6) Modern pastors do more than this. Should they? I don't think Scripture says that a pastor can't do anything other than teaching the Word and prayer, but it does say that those should be his priority. Having a paid pastor doesn't mean the congregation doesn't have to serve each other. My church makes it clear that if someone sees a need it is there responsibility to take it to the Lord and to see what He would have them do about it.

 

I don't have a problem paying our pastor's salary. I'm not just not convinced hiring a few people to "run the church" is the best way to go.

It absolutely isn't. We have a paid staff, but our elders are volunteers. The church isn't a business, she is the Bride of Christ!

 

I am grieved that we don't pay our pastors more. I know that we would struggle to live on what they make...and yet, the Lord takes care of them. All of our pastors would tell you that they have enough. I would love it if they could have a vacation home, or at least one that is shared between the pastoral staff. I am deeply grateful for our pastors--much of my spiritual growth can be attributed to how God has worked through them. My kids are thriving in part because of them. We get to take part in local and global ministry because of them. We know that we can get counsel or even financial support if we were ever truly in need because of them.

[bairnmama]

I haven't read all the replies, but having grown up the daughter of a pastor I felt the need to chime in. When my father became the associate pastor of my home church, he was also the youth minister, the Sunday school director, and the Minister of Education. He had already received a college degree and gone to Seminary for a Masters. He had two small children to care for and school loans to pay. He probably worked more than 50 hours every week with his ministry duties. He made nursing home visits, hospital visits, shut-in visits, planned the curriculum for every single Sunday School class, organized committee meetings (and attended most of them), counseled families and youth, organized and led mission trips, attended to the business of the church (researching and buying office equipment, meeting with those who requested help with bills or food, etc)... the list goes on and on. On top of this he also volunteered his time working as the boy's camp director for the entire association, was on the state leadership board for our denomination, and was on call 24/7 for anyone who needed his help. There was NO time for what you would call a regular paying job.

 

Our church was not an exceptionally large church either. We would average about 300 in attendance on Sunday mornings. Of course, our church also paid its other workers as well. The secretary, janitor, groundskeeper, and nursery workers were all paid a small wage. All wages were voted on yearly and could be increased or decreased according to how much money was being given in tithes and offerings. The whole church body voted and the people serving in those positions were asked to leave the business meeting so that others could speak freely without worrying about hurting feelings. I can certainly say that he could have made a LOT more money if he had worked an outside job because there were many, many months if not years where we were barely scraping by as a family. He felt, however, that he was called to ministry full-time and made many sacrifices to be able to fulfill his calling.

[FloridaLisa]

Absolutely. Not only the pastor, but other full-time ministers as well (music ministers, missionaries, youth pastors).

 

Old Testament: The Levitical priesthood was completely supported by tithes and offerings of the Jews.

 

New Testament:

 

Luke 10:7 ". . . for the worker deserves his wages."

 

And Paul taught this as well in 1 Timothy 5:18 "'Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain' (quoted from Deut. 25:4) and 'The worker deserves his wages.'" Yes, at times in his ministry, Paul earned his own money as a tent-maker, but scripture makes clear that he and other missionaries were also supported by gifts from the early churches.

 

Lisa

[Scarlett]

I think you're all insane. Pastoring takes time, and while vacation homes and extravagant spending is on one end of the spectrum, condemning your pastor to living in poverty shows a meaness and smallness that is repugnant.

 

There is a middle road people.

 

John 10:12 The laborer is worthy of his hire.

 

And shame on you.

 

Hey, how do you really feel? :lol:

 

Along with Pam's comments above, we don't have one 'pastor'. We have a body of elders and between all of them they take care of those kinds of needs along with other qualified men who help with various duties...no one is living in poverty and they all manage to provide for their families.

[Liz CA]

Remuda Mom & Dayle: I think there are two different views here. The kind of church, Daisy describes is the kind where almost all members pitch in one way or another. It creates bonding and a sense of belonging. These are typically the smaller churches (around 50 members) and we belonged to those.

The church we are attending right now is much larger and has outreach programs, paid pastors (not just one). The benefits are completely different. In this larger church, the youth groups have budgets, they can do a lot more. Vacation Bible School is elaborate and fun.

 

In the smaller church, VBS is less elaborate but still fun, the youth groups have to stage fundraisers or enjoy mission trips inside the county instead of overseas.

 

Finally my point is: There are all kind of churches and depending on size, affiliation, etc, some decide to have salaried staff and others simply come together to worship and teach but nobody is paid. Donations received may go toward building rent, maintenance and a few programs as can be afforded.

 

Different structures, different financial arrangements.

[Mynyel]

I haven't read all the posts but I don't think they should be paid either.

 

Yes I am aware there is time involved. However I don't think a church should be beholden to just one pastor. There should be more than one in order to share the burden so that a pastor and his family aren't the only ones that have to be made available.

 

If a church gets large then there should be a split and the church should be in two buildings or three or more.

 

I have seen (and been to) WAY to many BIG churches. There is a main pastor. He is paid to pastor the church. Could I ever talk to him? Nope. Unless you are in his "circle" he is untouchable by the "common" congregation.

 

I also think that there are some pastors (no not all but some) that, once paid, are liable to think it a "job" rather than a calling.

 

I am thinking of Tom Sawyers whitewashing. Mark Twain had wisdon there... everyone wanted to do it when they had to pay for it. If they were going to be paid for it...well then it was a job.

 

Youth Pastors work hard too, shouldn't they be paid? What about Sunday School teachers? They have to make lesson plans for each Sunday. What about other workers that have to plan things, implement things and do things around the church. That takes time. If pastors are paid for their time then so should everyone else.

 

If a pastor takes on more and more responsibility willingly then should he expect to be paid? Why? I don't get my pay for taking on more responsibility at work and typically it isn't voluntary it is required and I still don't get paid more.

 

That all being said, I don't begrudge churches that want to pay their pastors. However if a pastor is being paid he should be accessible and not above reproach. He should be given a living wage for the family size he has but should a church pay for vacation homes, big screen TV's and generally have way more than over 50% of the congregation? Nope. I don't think so. I don't have a big screen TV or a vacation home.

 

IMO pastors should be humble, not poverty for Pete's sake but golly they shouldn't be wearing Armani suits and driving an expensive BMW (if it is only on a pastors salary, two income pastor families is a whole different ball game).

 

Things like these are the reason we don't go to church and never will. I can't abide by the "rules and regs" that churches impose on people. I like home "churches". We get together, talk "shop", everyone brings a dish for lunch and that's it.

[Cammie]

Just for the sake of transparency - my dad, grandfather and great-grandfather were/are all church pastors.

 

I guess it depends on what you want in a pastor. My family has tended towards the academic side. My father has a doctorate in theology in addition to his M.Div. He is very academic, has studied languages, the bible, world religious, etc. My grandfather could read the bible in Greek and could also read Hebrew. He studied not only the bible but other great religious writings. I don't think you can have pastors like this who are also holding a full time job selling insurance or something (no offense to insurance sellers intended!)

 

Being a scriptural scholar, ministering to a congregation, sitting with dying people, counseling couples, preparing thought provoking sermons - I would think you would want a professional to do these things and not some volunteer person who has no training or background in them. Most ministers have gone through some psychological training in seminary, counseling training, etc. This is not an untrained calling.

 

What you pay, how much you pay that is a different question. My family always lived in nice parsonages because the churches were in nice neighborhoods and the pastor's house was right next door. My father's current parsonage is probably worth well over $1M - but that is owned by the church - it is their property and their investment. We always treated the parsonage as the church's house - bible studies and meetings were often conducted in our living room. Salaries were never large but not too many go into this line of work to get rich!

[ereks mom]

I guess it may be an issue of what sort of people will be able to devote just how much time per week, without being paid. Modern American society is different than ancient times. It may be difficult to attract quality people to a job where there is no financial remuneration. In addition to the very very devout, who may not be able to support a spouse or children, you may be left with the independently wealthy and unsavory characters or the ill prepared.

 

Being a pastor is not like being a volunteer. A pastor is always on call, and needs to be accessible to the congregation. People expect to be able to call at 2 AM with a dying child. That may not be possible if the person has to go to work or is in fact at work when the need arises. If the only role of a religious leader is, for example, to lead prayer services once a week and do the occasional outreach, then an unpaid volunteer may suffice. But if someone expects 50+ hours a week of service to an organization, it will likely be hard to get that for free. I personally don't think it's realistic.

 

:iagree:

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I have not been able to read through this whole thread since just the responses on the first page were shockingly unbelievable. I really hope someone has posted the ample Scripture that clearly shows a pastor is indeed to be fully supported by his ministry - he is worth that! (Obviously not talking about bling for the missus and helicopters but enough so that he can be fully devoted to his ministry .. is it even worth clarifying for those who need it though?).

 

Paul made it clear that he had full authority to live entirely off the ministry and his tent making was a choice he made personally and NOT to be expected from other full time ministers of the Word.

 

1 Cor. 9 "11 Since we have planted spiritual seed among you, aren’t we entitled to a harvest of physical food and drink? 12 If you support others who preach to you, shouldn’t we have an even greater right to be supported? But we have never used this right. We would rather put up with anything than be an obstacle to the Good News about Christ.

13 Don’t you realize that those who work in the temple get their meals from the offerings brought to the temple? And those who serve at the altar get a share of the sacrificial offerings. 14In the same way, the Lord ordered that those who preach the Good News should be supported by those who benefit from it. 15 Yet I have never used any of these rights. And I am not writing this to suggest that I want to start now. In fact, I would rather die than lose my right to boast about preaching without charge. 16 Yet preaching the Good News is not something I can boast about. I am compelled by God to do it. How terrible for me if I didn’t preach the Good News!

 

 

 

17 If I were doing this on my own initiative, I would deserve payment. But I have no choice, for God has given me this sacred trust. 18 What then is my pay? It is the opportunity to preach the Good News without charging anyone. That’s why I never demand my rights when I preach the Good News."

 

All I can gather is that despite what you (collective "you") say of what you think of your pastors you truly don't consider yourselves to benefit that much by them. And perhaps you don't .. I don't know them or you. :confused:

 

I truly don't intend for my communication to be inappropriate in any way but knowing what I do of what my pastors and their families do and give and endure for the sake of MY spiritual well being and that of our entire local flock this very idea is atrocious, despicable and grossly offensive which makes it somewhat difficult to respond unemotionally. :(

 

 

[ereks mom]

Yes they should work to support their family. I have known many who had full time jobs.

 

And it's a full-time job, since people expect the pastor to be available whenever there is a need. 24/7.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

A pastor is always on call, and needs to be accessible to the congregation.

That is why we have groups of people in each congregation, not just one man.

[TravelingChris]

HSLover said Youth ministers work, shouldn't they be paid? Every church that I have been a member of has paid for a youth minister. Sometimes that is their full time ministry. Some times they have youth ministry as part of their duties (in one church, the minister holding this job also was the evangelism minister). In some, it is a part time ministry. We also have paid in some churches for music directors, SUnday school directors, etc. Instead of our church splitting into smaller churches, we have been adding churches to our one building. When we joined a year and a ha;f ago, there were four congregations sharing one building. THis last year, we added one more so now we have five sharing one building. Why would we be splitting up? I have never attended a church where I couldn't talk to the main pastor or where I never did. I even attended a 3000 plus member church where I knew the pastors and they knew us. DId they know absolutely everybody? I don't know but they definitely made a big effort. WE have never been to a church where you had to be a member of an in group to talk to the pastor. That wouldn't be very Christian behavior in my view and I attend Christian churches. SInce we are frequent movers, we are always pretty new at each church we attend. We have never felt like second class citizens at church. IF you are finding things different at the churches you are visiting, I may suggest that you are looking in the wrong churches. I have been attending five different denominations and none have treated anyone that way.

[musicmommy]

Another pastor's kid here. Honestly? I'm so thankful my dad was able to be a paid pastor. I can't even imagine how much more he would have been gone from our lives he had to have another job outside of that. He did drive school buses most of my younger years, but not a full time job. He has the heart of a pastor and that is what he lives. When he retired several years ago, he became a changed person as he wasn't doing the things he was created to do. Now he's back at it part time (which truly translates into more than fulltime) and he's back to his old self again.

 

I have known some pastors who take advantage of their positions, but I do believe those ones are in the minority. We're more than happy to help provide the funding to pay our ministry staff. I know personally how much work goes into it since I've been full time in ministry before. I always looked at my church positions as so much more than just a job. Because I was paid, I was also freed up to do more of things the position required because I didn't have to give my time to something else.

 

Most pastors I know also do many things for the church outside of their job description. So yeah, I think that not only are they working for the church, they are also doing volunteer time there also.

[babysparkler]

My dh is on staff of a 5000+ member church (yes, there are three zeros)... I can only imagine that those of you who don't think a pastor should be paid a full-time salary are part of a much smaller congregation than what we are. Spend a week with my dh and you will feel differently. :001_smile:

[Lovedtodeath]

I have a childhood friend who went to college to be a pastor and dropped out because it was all about politics and keeping people happy so that they wouldn't leave and the church go broke. Those were his words when I asked him why he dropped out. ::Shrug::

 

I am personally on the fence about the matter. There were traveling overseers in the Bible that were supported by others and there were some who weren't. I have seen children suffer because their fathers were volunteers. I have also seen children (like my nephew) thrive. I am very proud of my brother that he is able to do it with God's help.

I do agree that some good things would come out of not getting a salary from the church, mainly avoiding an attitude that our family purchases are material for gossip. I sacrificed to buy a zoo pass for our family...and got flack/gossip about that. I am overly self-conscious about what I wear now...I have to look nice, but certain eyes see $$$ signs and add up the cost of my outfits. They watch what I bring to potlucks. I seriously avoid having people in our home for the same reasons. Getting our salary from a secular job would alleviate most of that, I think.

:grouphug:That's terrible. I am so sorry.:grouphug: Edited July 11, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[CLHCO]

I haven't read all the posts but I don't think they should be paid either.

 

I think you should. There are some dear ministers' wives speaking up worth hearing.

 

Things like these are the reason we don't go to church and never will. I can't abide by the "rules and regs" that churches impose on people. I like home "churches". We get together, talk "shop", everyone brings a dish for lunch and that's it.

 

The vast majority of situations are nothing like you described. I respect home churches, having been in one myself for a couple years with wonderful people, though I do not believe all of them are all-that-and-a-bag-of-chips. I find it kind of sad that your judgments are so harsh on the majority of believing bodies attending services under leadership of a (usually) elected group of elders, who have also chosen a sacrificing shepherd to lead them full time.

[RobinF]

Remuda Mom & Dayle: I think there are two different views here. The kind of church, Daisy describes is the kind where almost all members pitch in one way or another. It creates bonding and a sense of belonging. These are typically the smaller churches (around 50 members) and we belonged to those.

The church we are attending right now is much larger and has outreach programs, paid pastors (not just one). The benefits are completely different. In this larger church, the youth groups have budgets, they can do a lot more. Vacation Bible School is elaborate and fun.

 

In the smaller church, VBS is less elaborate but still fun, the youth groups have to stage fundraisers or enjoy mission trips inside the county instead of overseas.

 

Finally my point is: There are all kind of churches and depending on size, affiliation, etc, some decide to have salaried staff and others simply come together to worship and teach but nobody is paid. Donations received may go toward building rent, maintenance and a few programs as can be afforded.

 

Different structures, different financial arrangements.

 

We have served large and small congregations. I have to say that in every small congregation they expected at least as much if not more from my dh and/or my father (when I lived at home) as in the larger churches. Seriously, in one church they asked my dh if he was going to help cut tobacco for the members.

 

 

Just for the sake of transparency - my dad, grandfather and great-grandfather were/are all church pastors.

 

I guess it depends on what you want in a pastor. My family has tended towards the academic side. My father has a doctorate in theology in addition to his M.Div. He is very academic, has studied languages, the bible, world religious, etc. My grandfather could read the bible in Greek and could also read Hebrew. He studied not only the bible but other great religious writings. I don't think you can have pastors like this who are also holding a full time job selling insurance or something (no offense to insurance sellers intended!)

 

Being a scriptural scholar, ministering to a congregation, sitting with dying people, counseling couples, preparing thought provoking sermons - I would think you would want a professional to do these things and not some volunteer person who has no training or background in them. Most ministers have gone through some psychological training in seminary, counseling training, etc. This is not an untrained calling.

 

What you pay, how much you pay that is a different question. My family always lived in nice parsonages because the churches were in nice neighborhoods and the pastor's house was right next door. My father's current parsonage is probably worth well over $1M - but that is owned by the church - it is their property and their investment. We always treated the parsonage as the church's house - bible studies and meetings were often conducted in our living room. Salaries were never large but not too many go into this line of work to get rich!

 

:iagree: Neat to find someone else with a pastors lineage. Both our dad's (dh and mine) and two of our grandfather's were pastors. We have enough pastors in our family to start our on denomination. :D

[Cammie]

Robin - yes, these things do seem to run in families!! In our case, however, the pastors changed denominations in each generation! Great-grandfather was an Adventist, Grandfather was a Congregational and my father was an American Baptist until he took a Congregational church. Guess we are still searching for the right fit!

 

BTW - I remember joining a PK support group when I was a kid - seems we all have some issues about growing up in the fishbowl that is a pastor's family!

[Jean in Newcastle]

I already responded once with our situation where dh would like to spend more time in ministry but can't since he has to take care of our family. We are in a situation where we believe that it is scriptural to pay pastors (as per the Scripture already shared) but at the same time we don't feel that we should demand payment (2 Thess. 3:7-9). So dh often ministers without pay but he has also received generous gifts of money from believers. We would not be adverse if a group of believers offered to set up a salary if they were able but dh refuses to directly ask for it. But because of that he has not been able to say "yes" to every request for help either. I would suppose it would depend on if his ministry were important enough to people that they wanted more and were willing to help support it. If another member of a congregation with another spiritual gift were to be so involved in ministry, I would suppose it would again be up to people as to if they were willing to support that. I've known of people who were also supported while they spent time doing evangelism whether for adults or children.

Edited July 11, 2010 by Jean in Newcastle

[RobinF]

I haven't read all the posts but I don't think they should be paid either.

 

Yes I am aware there is time involved. However I don't think a church should be beholden to just one pastor. There should be more than one in order to share the burden so that a pastor and his family aren't the only ones that have to be made available.

 

If a church gets large then there should be a split and the church should be in two buildings or three or more.

 

I have seen (and been to) WAY to many BIG churches. There is a main pastor. He is paid to pastor the church. Could I ever talk to him? Nope. Unless you are in his "circle" he is untouchable by the "common" congregation.

 

I also think that there are some pastors (no not all but some) that, once paid, are liable to think it a "job" rather than a calling.

 

I am thinking of Tom Sawyers whitewashing. Mark Twain had wisdon there... everyone wanted to do it when they had to pay for it. If they were going to be paid for it...well then it was a job.

 

Youth Pastors work hard too, shouldn't they be paid? What about Sunday School teachers? They have to make lesson plans for each Sunday. What about other workers that have to plan things, implement things and do things around the church. That takes time. If pastors are paid for their time then so should everyone else.

 

If a pastor takes on more and more responsibility willingly then should he expect to be paid? Why? I don't get my pay for taking on more responsibility at work and typically it isn't voluntary it is required and I still don't get paid more.

 

That all being said, I don't begrudge churches that want to pay their pastors. However if a pastor is being paid he should be accessible and not above reproach. He should be given a living wage for the family size he has but should a church pay for vacation homes, big screen TV's and generally have way more than over 50% of the congregation? Nope. I don't think so. I don't have a big screen TV or a vacation home.

 

IMO pastors should be humble, not poverty for Pete's sake but golly they shouldn't be wearing Armani suits and driving an expensive BMW (if it is only on a pastors salary, two income pastor families is a whole different ball game).

 

Things like these are the reason we don't go to church and never will. I can't abide by the "rules and regs" that churches impose on people. I like home "churches". We get together, talk "shop", everyone brings a dish for lunch and that's it.

 

I am not being critical but how many pastors do you know that have vacation homes? Seriously, my dh and I rent a house. My parents and in laws and grandparents (who were all pastors) never owned a home until their retirement and then it was modest. Oh and I grew up in a two income pastors home and we didn't have designer clothes. I wore many a hand me down from my cousins.

 

You are making a rash judgement about church as a whole with what I *feel* is an incomplete picture. We didn't go into ministry to make money. As I said we knew exactly what God was calling us to and trust me there have been enough times that if God hadn't called us we would have gladly quit.

 

I guess my main question would be for anyone with this mindset is what exactly is a living wage and how much do you think pastors should make? I would be willing to bet (if I was a betting person) that most of the pastor's families on this thread make and live on less than what many in this thread are *assuming* pastors make.

[babysparkler]

We are ALL called to witnesses for Christ in whatever we do, does your husband make a salary for whatever he is called to do? Why is that okay?

 

For those who don't believe pastors should paid must honestly have no idea as to what pastors do.

 

:iagree: Good point. When I was a teacher I was "called" to teaching in the public school. I don't think anyone ever expected me to teach for no pay. That would be crazy. I was doing both what I was trained to do, and what I was called to do... and was compensated for it. The parents were truly responsible for the overall education of their children, but they entrusted them to me as the teacher.

 

Pastors are similar in the church setting. Yes, the congregation is responsible for the church, but the pastors are chosen/hired to oversee and nurture the congregation entrusted to their care. Many people have given scripture, so I don't need to. But is it really necessary? Do we seek scripture on whether or not to pay our teachers, doctors, roofers, plumbers,...? I'm not sure I see why people feel it should be any different for Pastors. What am I missing?

[RobinF]

Robin - yes, these things do seem to run in families!! In our case, however, the pastors changed denominations in each generation! Great-grandfather was an Adventist, Grandfather was a Congregational and my father was an American Baptist until he took a Congregational church. Guess we are still searching for the right fit!

 

BTW - I remember joining a PK support group when I was a kid - seems we all have some issues about growing up in the fishbowl that is a pastor's family!

 

Our family pretty much stuck with Southern Baptist until dh and I. We are the black sheep. We have worked with SBC, non denominational, Christian & Missionary Alliance and have considered working with the Evangelical Free church but are back with the SBC again.

 

It is hard and we are raising four boys in the same environment, trying to figure out how to shade the fishbowl a little more with them.

[Cammie]

And it doesn't help much when the people watching the fishbowl feel that you shouldn't get paid for being in there!

[ereks mom]

...that some of you (several, apparently) think that a pastor should not be paid for his work. Like Dayle in Guatemala, I come at this as both a pastor's kid AND a pastor's wife.

 

:iagree:Absolutely. People would never expect themselves to live in the way they expect their pastors to live. It never ceased to amaze me when we would be struggling so hard and people would be going on vacations, buying new things all the time, and the tithing and giving would go down and they would all be wondering if they had to cut our salary--again. But, they did expect us to be there whenever there was a crisis or they wanted a special service for some reason.

 

I'll never understand why ministers are relegated in the minds of some people to poverty and hardship.

 

I have seen exactly the same situation, and I know of many other pastors who have been there too. If you've never been in ministry, you have absolutely no concept of what it entails. On one hand, it is one of the most rewarding experiences a person could ever have. On the other hand, it is one of the most frustrating experiences a person could have. The pastor must be uniquely qualified and called-of-God (and his family too).

 

Being a pastor isn't just a full-time job, it's a 24/7 job. Pastors are ALWAYS on call. I can't even count the number of times my dh has missed family events (dinner, kids' performances, etc.) because a church member has called him because of some emergency (real or perceived). Brother Sam calls at 3:00 AM because his college-age son has been drinking too much, and is now depressed and suicidal. Sister Ethel goes into the hospital for minor surgery, and she wants the pastor--not a deacon or a Sunday School teacher, but ONLY the pastor--to be there to wait with her family while she's in the operating room.

 

My family rarely get a vacation because 1) dh can't get away because of pastoral obligations (weddings, funerals, hospital visitation, etc.), and 2) we can't afford it on a pastor's salary. But on those occasions when we do get a vacation, invariably someone in the church has a crisis and of course, dh is the first person they call--and we have to return early from vacation so dh can be there to take care of those needs.

 

One (just ONE--there are MANY) specific example of how underappreciated pastors are: churches in other cities in our state will occasionally contact dh and invite him to be the guest speaker at their evangelistic services each night for a week, and to bring the kids and me along as well. What usually happens in this situation is that at the end of the week, the church gives dh a check for enough to cover expenses, and sometimes a little extra as a gift for our family. Once when we were invited to a particular church, we (our family of 4) drove to the church's community, which is several hours' drive from where we live. We rented a hotel room at our own expense, paid for our own meals at restaurants, and visited in the community each day throughout the week, and then attended services each evening. On the last night, when the church would normally have given dh a check, there was no check, and no one mentioned it. Dh didn't ask, because to ask about being paid would be considered presumptuous. We went to our car and got in to drive away, and then one of the members came out to the parking lot and waved for dh to stop. The man gave us a pie that one of the ladies in the church had made, and then he said something to dh about mailing him a check later on. We never heard from the church again.

 

I could go on and on with more examples, but you get the picture.

 

You know, I'm not even going to tell my dh about this thread because being a pastor is thankless enough without him having to be reminded (again) that there are people who believe that what he does is not a "real job"--at least, not worth getting paid for. Sheesh!

 

Remudamom, you said it best:

I think you're all insane. Pastoring takes time, and while vacation homes and extravagant spending is on one end of the spectrum, condemning your pastor to living in poverty shows a meaness and smallness that is repugnant.

 

There is a middle road people.

 

John 10:12 The laborer is worthy of his hire.

 

And shame on you.

 

:iagree: --although I probably wouldn't have had the nerve to say it right out like that myself. ;) But I'm glad someone did, since that was what I was thinking anyway. :)

Edited July 11, 2010 by ereks mom

[lllll]

..

[IsabelC]

I would think that a pastor should definitely be paid, but not a huge amount. Enough so that he doesn't have to compromise on his duties in order to keep his family fed and housed, and enough so he can have some little luxuries and a vacation from time to time (because I imagine it would be fairly demanding job, if done well and wholeheartedly), but not enough so that insincere people would want to do it just for the money. Also, in the case where the role of Pastor's Wife effectively amounts to another full time job, I would have her paid as well.

[Jugglin'5]

I would think that a pastor should definitely be paid, but not a huge amount. Enough so that he doesn't have to compromise on his duties in order to keep his family fed and housed, and enough so he can have some little luxuries and a vacation from time to time (because I imagine it would be fairly demanding job, if done well and wholeheartedly), but not enough so that insincere people would want to do it just for the money. Also, in the case where the role of Pastor's Wife effectively amounts to another full time job, I would have her paid as well.

 

 

Perhaps you didn't mean this to sound as condescending as it does? :001_huh: At least to my mind.

[Lovedtodeath]

I would think that a pastor should definitely be paid, but not a huge amount. Enough so that he doesn't have to compromise on his duties in order to keep his family fed and housed, and enough so he can have some little luxuries and a vacation from time to time (because I imagine it would be fairly demanding job, if done well and wholeheartedly), but not enough so that insincere people would want to do it just for the money. Also, in the case where the role of Pastor's Wife effectively amounts to another full time job, I would have her paid as well.

 

Perhaps you didn't mean this to sound as condescending as it does? :001_huh: At least to my mind.

:001_huh: I thought it was pretty good.

[Starr]

My dh is on staff of a 5000+ member church (yes, there are three zeros)... I can only imagine that those of you who don't think a pastor should be paid a full-time salary are part of a much smaller congregation than what we are. Spend a week with my dh and you will feel differently. :001_smile:

 

Now, now darling; you don't have to be in a mega church to be doin the Lord's work day and night. :D

[katemary63]

I think you're all insane. Pastoring takes time, and while vacation homes and extravagant spending is on one end of the spectrum, condemning your pastor to living in poverty shows a meaness and smallness that is repugnant.

 

There is a middle road people.

 

John 10:12 The laborer is worthy of his hire.

 

And shame on you.

 

:iagree: You are awesome, Ramuda