Gifted or not

[Ester Maria]

What we're talking about here is basically "knowledgeable vs. intelligent" issue. I'm sure all of us here have had classmates, colleagues or friends who knew a whole lot of information - as in, you could test them on very concrete information from different fields and they would perform very, very well - but who, on the other hand, could not manipulate that information or "get" its mirror reflections. That's the type of people that, for example, does not understand humor (I'm talking about "intelligent" humor, of course) - because in order to understand, let alone design your own humor, you need this certain ability of manipulating the information: you need to know the information, know how to create its mirror image the way the other people get the original information, without it being blatant (i.e. sarcastic, which most people will get by the mere tone of the voice - no wonder they say that sarcasm is the lowest form of humor), all combined in a "story" with its own line and sense. Designing humor is, indeed, the quality of intelligent people - and appreciating humor as well. Somebody who merely possesses the facts, but not the underlying mechanisms of those facts which would make it easy to "play" with them, might be a knowledgeable person, but if they cannot operate within the inverted contexts of those information, they might not be intelligent more than an average person that does not possess those same facts.

 

So we have something similar here. A lot of children are capable of accepting and processing the information at a rapid speed - a lot of perfectly normal children, in fact, and it's the default mode of learning of small children. Combine that with enthusiasm, interest and work ethics and you get an accelerated child.

However, not a lot of children will get the underlying mechanisms of the things they study about, the structure, operate with subtle relations and develop an ability to intensively manipulate the idea mentally, shift it to different contexts and use it in out-of-box ways. Those are the gifted ones, even though they might possess less information than their peers.

 

For most children, the underlying mechanisms CAN be learned, but with a lot of EXAMPLES, repetition and linear organization of a study over the time. Gifted children usually DREAD the "examples" - since they find it to be busy work to go through the same concept on another example, rather than an aid. My mathematically and scientifically inclined child NEVER does a set of problems to kill some time and get some math - rather, she operates with very conceptual rather than concrete math, and even there she doesn't deal with repetitions once she understands the concept - because she says they blur it. Dealing with examples makes her "work by the scheme" rather than to think. She will do different kind of problems on the approximately same content, from a different point of view, but rote problem sets are her pet peeve. She realizes she needs some of that to work on her speed and automatism of certain processes, but she does it minimally. She "gets" math on an abstract level and applies it to the concrete situation, rather than vice-versa. Her math is not "learned" as much as it is "understood".

 

There are things that she learned sooner or better than her peers because of her life circumstances or a different education - for example, languages. Many people who have met her seem to think that the kid has a thing for languages - but really, she doesn't, not as much as her sister, she was just in a situation to learn them at a young age due to being an internationally raised child and due to extensive travel opportunities that most children do not have. It doesn't necessarily imply a special talent to master such a skill, it only requires the right circumstances. Similar can be said of American kids who lived in, say, Russia, with its school system, came back to the US and were considered "geniuses", even though they were completely average with regards to the Russian school system. Those things are due to circumstances rather than special skills.

 

One more thing to always, always have in mind - you're the parent. You cannot POSSIBLY be unbiased when it comes to your child. One of the side-effects of homeschooling is that you lack an educated opinion of a professional adult about your child, for each field. You see your child in non-academic contexts as well and, as every parent, you're "in love" with your child which prevents you from seeing your child ONLY academically (especially if you haven't seen hundreds of other children to have some data to rely on). A whole lot of parents think that their children are the top 5-10% abilities-wise, but only 5-10% ARE the top 5-10% (obviously). And an interview with a psychologist, or solving some stupid "intelligence test" which relies on Raven's matrices and similar mechanisms anyway is NOT a measure of that much things. A regular contact with unbiased experts in the fields your child is studying would be needed for you to know how much your child "gets", and how much they "learned". But as we're homeschooling, and as most teachers are anyway far from "experts" for what they teach (and can thus predict only "statistically"), most of us don't have that privilege.

 

The label, at the end of the day, doesn't matter.

[HeidiD]

One of the side-effects of homeschooling is that you lack an educated opinion of a professional adult about your child, for each field. You see your child in non-academic contexts as well and, as every parent, you're "in love" with your child which prevents you from seeing your child ONLY academically (especially if you haven't seen hundreds of other children to have some data to rely on). A whole lot of parents think that their children are the top 5-10% abilities-wise, but only 5-10% ARE the top 5-10% (obviously).

 

 

This is true. And living in the family echo chamber can be deceptive in reverse - I wasn't aware of having gifted children for a long time because they were very similar. So I didn't realize that what was "normal" for us is not typical. As homeschoolers we socialized and were involved with sports but academically we generally did our own thing. Even when I began to realize they weren't typical, I was hesitant to "label" them because when I was a child, my mother threw my IQ score in my face whenever my performance didn't meet her standards. Now I realize that the label is what you make of it - if it leads you to information that will be useful in regard to curriculum planning, social/emotional development, programs for gifted students, etc., it's a useful piece of information.

[Crimson Wife]

This is true. And living in the family echo chamber can be deceptive in reverse - I wasn't aware of having gifted children for a long time because they were very similar. So I didn't realize that what was "normal" for us is not typical.

 

:iagree:Having a social circle made up primarily of other highly educated professionals didn't help. I remember being shocked at hearing the statistic that only 1% of entering kindergartners could read because in the affluent suburb where I grew up and the one where we lived at the time it was about half.

[angela in ohio]

This is true. And living in the family echo chamber can be deceptive in reverse - I wasn't aware of having gifted children for a long time because they were very similar. So I didn't realize that what was "normal" for us is not typical.

 

Dh taught children with special needs, and we didn't do anything academic with other homeschoolers early on. I knew dc would possibly be gifted, but dh was thrown when he first started to realize how odd we were as they got older and we were around a lot of other children: "Holy cr*p, our kids are freaks." :D :lol:

[patchfire]

So I didn't realize that what was "normal" for us is not typical. As homeschoolers we socialized and were involved with sports but academically we generally did our own thing.

 

This is so true! I read something about gifted kids thinking "differently" a few years ago. I puzzled over it for awhile, and finally had a realization. The "differently" referenced is just how I (& dh, & my kids, & my close friends, &...) think! Voila! Lightbulb moment. I kept hearing people talk about how you just "know" when a kid is gifted because of how different they are, when I just noticed how my kids seemed so similar to me. :P

[tofuscramble]

A whole lot of parents think that their children are the top 5-10% abilities-wise, but only 5-10% ARE the top 5-10% (obviously). And an interview with a psychologist, or solving some stupid "intelligence test" which relies on Raven's matrices and similar mechanisms anyway is NOT a measure of that much things.

 

So true! I have a child that failed miserably in the school system and tested average on an intelligence test with a professional, but to look at him you would see a gifted child (people ask me if he is gifted all the time!). He comprehends things way above his age/maturity level, he has an amazing sense of humor, he designs complicated mechanisms out of cardboard (suits with sliding panels, shoes with locking machanisms and all kinds of things like that), its insane! And they tell me that this child isnt gifted? Then I have his younger brother who's gifts are all academic, specifically in math (he is 7 working at a 5th grade level) and he tested "very superior" but his brother supposedly isn't gifted at all?. I don't have any faith in those tests.

[lisaj]

There is a definite difference between a child being academically advanced because of "enrichment" or being gifted. Highly gifted children sometimes achieve incredible things academically with no instruction at all.

 

When the public school tested my ds, they told me that they had never encountered a child with an IQ that high. They had no idea what to do with him and were surprisingly candid about it. The gifted program at the school would not have come close to meeting his needs. If he was not highly gifted, we would not be a homeschooling family. Faced with the choices of a school for highly gifted with a tuition of $11K/year and 2 hrs commuting every day or having a totally inappropriate setting for him (the gifted program at pub school) or homeschooling, there really wasn't much of a choice to be made. A few years ago, I would have laughed if someone had told me that I would decide to homeschool, but it's amazing what paths we can find ourselves on as parents trying to do what's best for our kids.

 

Stacy, I actually had to look at your post twice to make sure I hadn't written it myself without realizing it. Our stories and absolutely identical, right down to what our public school told us. :) :) I wish we were closer in person!

[DebbS]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm putting in my own experiences/thoughts anyway.

 

Both of my young teens have tested in the 99th percentile on standard tests their whole lives. Nonetheless, neither will conclude, when faced with a simple problem such as having no clean jeans for tomorrow, that they could solve it by doing a load of laundry. So, I help lead them to a solution..."What would be something that you could do that would make the jeans become clean?" In return :confused::confused:. Now, why isn't there a standardized test for being able to do life....Oh....I guess the test is life.

 

Whether our children are gifted or not or gifted in whatever areas, they each have their strengths that need to be encouraged and weaknesses that need to strengthened.

 

Another point is that giftedness needs to be balanced. A very intelligent person who is moral can have a strong, positive impact on society. But so can a regular person who is moral. On the other hand a very intelligent person who is immoral can do a lot of damage.

 

I believe being a giving person is better than being 'gifted' one. That's the value that I try to pass on to my children.

[SnegurochkaL]

[Ester Maria]

American kids who lived in, say, Russia, with its school system, came back to the US and were considered "geniuses", even though they were completely average with regards to the Russian school system. Those things are due to circumstances rather than special skills.

 

I agree with you on this.

 

I think that educational standards are low in US, so kids who successfully were educated abroad or lived overseas, coming to US would be considered highly gifted.

 

*******

 

I am on opposite side of a "parent in love with her child". I love my kids, but I demand a lot of them academically. It is hard on kids to have 2 gifted parents with very high expectations.

[lauracolumbus]

I don't know if I have the answer but here are a few things I have noticed (PS I have not test my dd): My 7dd takes things in more than I realize and then applies that information to her surroundings. She integrates her knowledge across subjects. She is quick to recognize information she has either read or heard before so he gets bored very easily with old information. She kind of has an "excitable energy about her (ie talks fast, moves quickly, thinks on her feet well, asks questions)" which does make me feel anxious at times, literally shaking (other adults have observed this and said they would have a hard time with that). She is not ADD or anything, just everything is fast but then at times she is very contemplative. She has asked me to create an animal study guide for her regarding big cats. She wants to be a wildlife vet. We talked about her interests, expectations, resources and projects she would like to do. I typed it up and now she has her first real "research assignment." She is driving this idea. Whether she is gifted or accelerated doesn't really need to be answered for me. I suspect she probably is somewhat gifted but I'm not sure that would change our homeschool experience for I am already providing her "gifted curriculum" so that box is checked. I do know that homeschooling allows for us to dive into subjects which can be tricky if resources are lacking. We go on tons of field trips unlike ps students. Yesterday we took a 2 1/2 hr bird identification class with a naturalist thru a wildlife refuge. My kids were the only children in the class (12+adults made up the rest) and they stayed actively involved. I think homeschool children often have longer attention spans which can impact learning. I certainly don't think homeschool "makes a child gifted" but I do think "gifted qualities" shine more in a homeschool environment which in turn can be nurtured. Accelerated vs gifted...I am not sure if I know the difference unless we are talking about PG then I think that is another story.

 

:iagree:Good stuff. This helps me as I get a handle on what to do w/my "I don't know if she's accelerated or gifted" 6 year old. It seems sort of lame to continue on w/business as usual after seeing that she's on a 4th/5th grade level across the board.

 

Laura

[marie33]

I think that many many children fall through the cracks in the ps!!! As I read all your posts, I kept thinking to myself, how could parents of gifted children NOT know they are gifted before school age? Don't gifted children reveal their talents early enough in their development to witness the differences before they are sent off to schools?

 

It is unfortunate, but I think there actually are many gifted children out there who go completely unnoticed by their working parents and/or their ps teachers who are just trying to get through the school days juggling 30 something kids. These unnoticed children may actually be the later troublemakers who didn't get the attention they needed, became bored and started causing trouble. I can already see in my 4 year-old that trouble is capable of brewing if I didn't spend time directing his energy...right? Anybody else find this true?

 

Also, it does seem that though homeschooling is able to provide one-on-one attention, it does NOT MAKE a child gifted! The sad reality is that most children are capable of excelling much quicker than the ps pace. That doesn't mean they're gifted. But the teachers don't have the capacity to follow the normal to over-achievers at their pace, rather, they follow the bottom liners in the class to make sure that "no child is left behind". I think the achievers are held back in classrooms, when most of them could probably progress at a much quicker pace! But again, that doesn't mean they're gifted. We are just used to people shifting our focus to the slower students that it makes normal children who are capable of learning faster appear to be geniuses. There is a REAL difference between normal kids who aren't "allowed" to excel in order to keep up with a slower classroom pace and actually profoundly or highly gifted children who don't need a lot of instruction for conceptual truths to make sense to them. I am so thankful for homeschooling...we don't have to hold anybody back who is capable of more! But the best part, our gifted students aren't experiencing daily frustration over having to follow "the curve" in a classroom.

[SunshineMom]

Homeschooling also allows the space for children to interact with information, to breathe in knowledge, much more than in a ps setting. Eliminating peer pressures and peer culture, homeschool children become more aware of their personal experience to learning. My 7dd loves cheetahs and big cats in general. She broke down in tears when she read a graph predicting the extinction of cheetahs in 2020. She was devastated and distraught that she was not going to be old enough (job wise) to save them. We did some internet searching and found that there are about 9,000-12,000 cheetahs currently and she does still have time. She feels personally responsible because she is aware of the problem. This is the tricky part about homeschooling for children can really feel reality.