Gifted or not

[Embassy]

Not too long ago I was reading about the prevalence of gifted students among the homeschool population. It was suggested that there is a greater percentage of gifted students who are homeschooled than in public schools because public schools aren't meeting their needs. But someone suggested that perhaps many of these high achieving homeschooled children were not gifted at all, but advanced because of one on one instruction. Don't gifted children have unique learning needs that are different from students who are advanced?

 

What has been your experience? Do you have a gifted student or know of some? Do you find that the student's learning needs go beyond learning at an advanced rate?

[Crimson Wife]

I read a statistic one time that over 50% of PG kids today are homeschooled.

 

OTOH, the ability to tailor the curriculum and the one-on-one attention likely make it easier for garden variety bright kids to achieve more than they would if they were enrolled in PS.

[catz]

Not too long ago I was reading about the prevalence of gifted students among the homeschool population. It was suggested that there is a greater percentage of gifted students who are homeschooled than in public schools because public schools aren't meeting their needs. But someone suggested that perhaps many of these high achieving homeschooled children were not gifted at all, but advanced because of one on one instruction. Don't gifted children have unique learning needs that are different from students who are advanced?

 

What has been your experience? Do you have a gifted student or know of some? Do you find that the student's learning needs go beyond learning at an advanced rate?

 

My son is tracking at that very highly gifted to profoundly gifted rate. For us, we did no academics at all at the preschool level. We sang songs, played games, built things, etc etc etc. But I never directly taught him anything. I answered his billion questions. At the time, I thought all kids were this intense! He went to 2 years of PS, where he went from not remotely interested in reading to reading about on a 5th grade level in kindergarten. I discovered he was way ahead in math as well. We had started him in piano 6 months before kindergarten. He made a huge leap in piano that year too compared to other peers who started at that time.

 

So this kid of mine is gifted through no prompting of my own. We do school a couple hours a day at his level. I do no planning really. This is just who he is. He inhales information like air. He tests extremely high. And I think he would probably test just as high if he went back to school with the possible exception of math. For him at least, he does not take leaps on new notation even if he already conceptually understands a concept. Regardless, he'd still test high. He just wouldn't be a very happy or engaged kid. My daughter is tracking similarly, but she was a young K and I'm not pushing her at all. She is well ahead in math and reading too, and if we did 20-30 minutes of "work" 4 times a week this past year we were doing well. We do naturally read quite a bit.

 

So to me, a gifted learner is not about what a child knows. It's about how they learn it and the repetition required. . We choose to homeschool because my child is gifted, but I don't think HS *MAKES* your child gifted. I think you can accommodate children individually which can increase achievement. Which is a wonderful thing! Many of the children in my son's class looked GT in K by being early readers, but are generally at grade level now as 3rd-4th graders.

[galtgrl]

So to me, a gifted learner is not about what a child knows. It's about how they learn it and the repetition required.[

:iagree:

 

QUOTE]

It was suggested that there is a greater percentage of gifted students who are homeschooled than in public schools because public schools aren't meeting their needs.

 

 

Here's another thought - I believe that many of the GT kids being homeschooled have parents who are GT (at least one, in many cases both). The majority of those parents probably had the experience of being identified as GT in a ps setting, and think they can provide a better learning exp. for their kids themselves. In most cases, they're right.

[Staceyshoe]

There is a definite difference between a child being academically advanced because of "enrichment" or being gifted. Highly gifted children sometimes achieve incredible things academically with no instruction at all.

 

When the public school tested my ds, they told me that they had never encountered a child with an IQ that high. They had no idea what to do with him and were surprisingly candid about it. The gifted program at the school would not have come close to meeting his needs. If he was not highly gifted, we would not be a homeschooling family. Faced with the choices of a school for highly gifted with a tuition of $11K/year and 2 hrs commuting every day or having a totally inappropriate setting for him (the gifted program at pub school) or homeschooling, there really wasn't much of a choice to be made. A few years ago, I would have laughed if someone had told me that I would decide to homeschool, but it's amazing what paths we can find ourselves on as parents trying to do what's best for our kids.

[homeschoolally]

:iagree:

 

 

Here's another thought - I believe that many of the GT kids being homeschooled have parents who are GT (at least one, in many cases both). The majority of those parents probably had the experience of being identified as GT in a ps setting, and think they can provide a better learning exp. for their kids themselves. In most cases, they're right.

 

:iagree: with Galt --who is he anyway? =) my apologies if you are Gal T Girl not Galt! Anyway---

I think it is a combination of what the previous posters have already mentioned--but this has been our direct experience and I've observed it with quite a few other hs families. I think it would be fascinating to dig deeper into this idea.

 

I also think there are many of us homeschooling kids who would have suffered a slow intellectual death in a ps setting--and we might have been less likely to recognize that if we hadn't had the experience ourselves.

 

Parents who are gifted themselves might also have better access to careers that support a one-income family. I realize this isn't always the case, but it must play a role in many families. Or even if they have a lower income, they value education enough to live a simpler life in order to homeschool.

 

I haven't thought about this until now, but had I married one of the other men I dated before I met dh--I don't think most of them would have had

a) the earning potential and drive to be the sole breadwinner and/or

b) valued education enough to make the sacrifices required to homeschool and/or

c) understood the misery of feeling like school was a prison that motivates me to homeschool and/or

d) passed along gifted genes to my children

 

I'm just thinking aloud here, but there must be something to this. :001_smile:

I find this idea very interesting. I need a little homeschool motivation right now and this has helped!

Edited July 10, 2010 by homeschoolally

[Embassy]

So to me, a gifted learner is not about what a child knows. It's about how they learn it and the repetition required. . We choose to homeschool because my child is gifted, but I don't think HS *MAKES* your child gifted. I think you can accommodate children individually which can increase achievement. Which is a wonderful thing! Many of the children in my son's class looked GT in K by being early readers, but are generally at grade level now as 3rd-4th graders.

 

So the differentiation you find is that a gifted child is intense about learning and will learn without direct instruction?

[Kuovonne]

I think that there are a greater percentage of homeschooled kids at both ends of the academic spectrum (accelerated and delayed) versus in public school. I think that is driven both by difficulty of public schools to serve these types of students and by differing academic philosophies of homeschooling families.

 

I do think that truly gifted students can benefit greatly from more than mere acceleration. I am so thankful that I don't have a gifted kid. My kid is merely accelerated due to the homeschooling environment. If my kid were in public school, she would not be accelerated.

Edited July 10, 2010 by Kuovonne

[2smartones]

So the differentiation you find is that a gifted child is intense about learning and will learn without direct instruction?

I don't think that's necessarily true either. Not always. Some kids, gifted or not, just don't like academics. They like video games or sports or whatever. Some need instruction to get started, but then take the initial instruction and run with it. Some ignore academics to the point of failure (and perhaps aren't even recognized as gifted), while others jump through hoops to complete the academics just so they can get it over with (like washing dishes before going out with friends... LOL).

[TracyP]

Here's another thought - I believe that many of the GT kids being homeschooled have parents who are GT (at least one, in many cases both). The majority of those parents probably had the experience of being identified as GT in a ps setting, and think they can provide a better learning exp. for their kids themselves. In most cases, they're right.

 

:iagree:This is why I knew I was going to homeschool my kids when I was in 8th grade or so.

 

It is interesting because I have two very different kids so far. I have a dd that I believe is accelerated due to being a bright girl who gets one on one teaching. I have a son that I have to struggle to keep up with. I have quit trying to give him one on one "instruction" for now because he leaps too far ahead of me anyway. I wish I could take credit for it.:D

 

I believe the ps has more gifted kids than the numbers show. I am afraid they just fall through the cracks more often than homeschooled gifted kids.

 

So the differentiation you find is that a gifted child is intense about learning and will learn without direct instruction?

 

I think the difference is in whether a gifted (or any) child will have success. I think there are plenty of gifted children with no intensity for learning. If a gifted child breezes through childhood never being challenged they may (IMO) never find the motivation to get very far (cough....me). A child with less "giftedness" may achieve far beyond them because they are intense, motivated, driven. I think that is far more important than being gifted when it comes to future success. My son was born with that, I am trying to figure out how to "teach" my dd to be driven.

[zaichiki]

I haven't thought about this until now, but had I married one of the other men I dated before I met dh--I don't think most of them would have had

a) the earning potential and drive to be the sole breadwinner and/or

b) valued education enough to make the sacrifices required to homeschool and/or

c) understood the misery of feeling like school was a prison that motivates me to homeschool and/or

d) passed along gifted genes to my children

 

:iagree:

[zaichiki]

So the differentiation you find is that a gifted child is intense about learning and will learn without direct instruction?

 

That's true for my kids *in their areas of passion.* There are things I want them to learn that they wouldn't investigate without direct instruction.

[naturalmom]

I didn't do academics with my ds until he was in kindergarten. I planned a year of Earlybird Singapore math, learning to read, and lots of art and free play.

 

The first day during art time I gave him a large piece of paper to paint on with watercolors. He painted a hundreds chart. (We had one on the wall.) The first few weeks, he did a series of hundreds charts in watercolor. At the same time, I realized he knew all the math in those books already...so we jumped to next level, and kept going until we found the right one.

 

I think in public school he would not have had the opportunity to thrive and go at his own pace the way he can at home. But he was hardly a hothouse child. During the schoolyear, we don't do math every day (he's now 8). We also haven't done math over the summer - though he is trying out a couple of enrichment classes. I think this helps him to not burn out on math.

 

I think part of the advantage is that a homeschool parent is more likely to recognize signs of giftedness than a teacher with a classroom full of children. My district doesn't offer anything for gifted children until 3rd grade - but a homeschool child can be challenged right from the start at home.

[Dmmetler]

What I've heard from many parents, after it happened to us, is that preschool and kindergarten teachers often actively suggest or at least encourage homeschooling for really out of the box kids. I was shocked when my DD's teacher suggested it for her for 1st grade-stating flat out that skipping DD to the grade she needed wouldn't be a good fit because of the emotional and physical stuff that's expected at that level. But I've since heard it from at least 6 parents, some of whom have identified kids, some of whom do not, who got similar statements from teachers to the effect that they can try, but they're not going to be able to teach your child what they need-all off the record.

 

One of the moms in our local homeschool group was a GT teacher for an elementary school, and has commented that there are more truly gifted kids in our homeschool group than there were in her elementary school, even though it's a much smaller population.

[catz]

What I've heard from many parents, after it happened to us, is that preschool and kindergarten teachers often actively suggest or at least encourage homeschooling for really out of the box kids. I was shocked when my DD's teacher suggested it for her for 1st grade-stating flat out that skipping DD to the grade she needed wouldn't be a good fit because of the emotional and physical stuff that's expected at that level. But I've since heard it from at least 6 parents, some of whom have identified kids, some of whom do not, who got similar statements from teachers to the effect that they can try, but they're not going to be able to teach your child what they need-all off the record.

 

 

I had the same talk with my son's first grade teacher. She basically said "we can't help you here". There is a gifted magnet that is in the district, but it is really designed for kids within 1-2 years of grade level. Around 40% of kids at our school were IDed as eligible and that school wasn't even a close fit for my oldest.

 

I was also going to say, neither my husband or I were IDed as gifted. Even though hind sight, we are both clearly at least highly gifted. They just didn't do gifted ID at either of our schools. But we both knew we had poor elementary school experiences. I think our public school is a wonderful community and a very nice school for many kids. Learning about the gifted community once my son was IDed was very enlightening about my own childhood and intensities. I was so frustrated and miserable throughout elementary school. I thought there must be something wrong with me.

[SnegurochkaL]

I think when both parents are gifted it doesn't necessary mean that your child is going to be gifted. My parents were not gifted academically. My dad was mechanically gifted.

Well, in my family my husband and I would be consider gifted but neither of us was tested for giftness in PS. My husband could read at age 2 before he could actually speak. We both have very high IQ.

My child started speaking late(she was almost 3) because of her 7-9 languages exposure and being bilingual. She was 2 grades ahead of her peers in math and logical thinking along with ability to speak several different languages. She was progressing so rapidly that I ended slowing her down. I had a newborn so I couldn't spend a lot of time with her as I used to do. After being bored for a year of doing "almost nothing", she lost her interest to academics except foreign languages.

 

I think it is important keeping them motivated and interested to try many things because usually a gifted child is the one who is advanced in more than one field.

 

My daughter is still a bright child but not highly motivated. Her brother is more advanced than her being at that age, so we will see what will happen there. My daughter is the one who is teaching him French and German, some math and reading. She does it instead of doing her studying. Seldom, she is studying math on her own. She has no problem with reading and writing, but struggles with spelling and math. It is so shocking for us when she was so advance in math before:(

 

Has anybody experience the same problem like I do with my oldest child?

Do you have a child who was academically gifted and now just doing OK in fields where he/she used to be several years ahead of his/her peers?

 

I hope my daughter will get more motivated in academics and will start progressing as she used to do in early childhood.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

P.S. My daughter has never attended a PS or being tested for giftness. I wanted to do it but she was too young for the test. My husband was against it. Now I wouldn't do it because she is afraid to make a mistake so all test she would be thinking about doing it perfectly.

Edited July 10, 2010 by SneguochkaL

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

Originally Posted by Wehomeschool

So the differentiation you find is that a gifted child is intense about learning and will learn without direct instruction?

 

That's true for my kids *in their areas of passion.* There are things I want them to learn that they wouldn't investigate without direct instruction.

 

 

:iagree:

[MaMa2005]

What I've heard from many parents, after it happened to us, is that preschool and kindergarten teachers often actively suggest or at least encourage homeschooling for really out of the box kids.

 

This happened to us. We knew our school district wouldn't be able to accommodate DS's needs so we went looking at private schools. I think we explored at least six different private schools and heard the same thing from all of them: You are better off homeschooling because we can only make so many modifications and they aren't enough to challenge your DS.

 

The other problem was that the schools really don't want to get a wide spread of age ranges in a classroom due to emotional/maturity issues. I completely agree with that assessment. While DS is working at mostly upper 4th/5th grade level, he just turned 5. His reading level is even higher. He would be eaten alive by 9 and 10 year olds in the social arena.

[jewellsmommy]

The evidence thus far seems to suggest that a child with gifted tendencies or delayed/difficulties lead people to choose homeschooling, not that homeschooling leads to giftedness or other.

 

I would say that there is indeed a correlation and it is probably multi-faceted as to the reason.

 

I do not consider dd gifted, however others have asked if she has ever been tested. I would consider her needs unique. And I believe that she is accelerated in certain areas, but I know that she is also delayed in some. So we might possibly exist in both ends of the spectrum at the same time.

 

I was tested and put into the talented and gifted program and graduated a year early. However, in retrospect, I don't think that I am really any more capable than most people that I know. So, I don't know how that plays into our homeschool. DH is a right brain/haptic learner, and like many rt brainers, had difficulties in the traditional school setting. In many ways, we had opposite experiences. The funny thing is that I was the one labeled gifted yet dh is the one that I can *see* as being a little more capable than the average person. He can fix almost anything and he can make almost anything work with no training on the object in question. Now, don't ask him the textbook theory or mathematical equation behind it. :D That is more my territory, but put it in my hands and I wouldn't know what to do with it :glare:. In short, dd is more like her daddy; artistically inclined, creative and learns quickly but in her own unique way.

[Gratia271]

This happened to us. We knew our school district wouldn't be able to accommodate DS's needs so we went looking at private schools. I think we explored at least six different private schools and heard the same thing from all of them: You are better off homeschooling because we can only make so many modifications and they aren't enough to challenge your DS.

 

The other problem was that the schools really don't want to get a wide spread of age ranges in a classroom due to emotional/maturity issues. I completely agree with that assessment. While DS is working at mostly upper 4th/5th grade level, he just turned 5. His reading level is even higher. He would be eaten alive by 9 and 10 year olds in the social arena.

 

:iagree:

 

This social/emotional disconnect is further exacerbated in the higher grade levels. My children function academically about 3-4 levels ahead of their chronological age with post-HS lit. comprehension. I don't want DD11 around 15 year old girls and boys. The only school we remotely considered was the private school for GT children. Among them, DC are still at the top. There simply isn't a brick and mortar school for some children without exposing them to a much older age group with which they don't relate, although they don't really relate to their "age-mates" either. Their best company is among adults. As a result, HS seems to be the best alternative to address their needs.

 

Regarding the OP, Even in HS circles we have attempted, there is minimal understanding of the distinction between advanced abilities and giftedness. My children were autodidacts in many areas before age 3, including reading, numeracy and logic. Empathy emerged before 2, and global consciousness before 3. Intensity is the norm around here. They are outside-the-box children who prefer to develop novel problem-solving strategies rather than employ those suggested. They learn practically everything effortlessly. They question everything (it seems... ugh).

 

GT students tend to be the ones who are asking the questions, not merely raising their hand to answer those matters presented to them. In our experience, they are not well received by teachers who desire to stick to a lesson plan, use didactic teaching methods, and restrict discussion to only those questions (however dull and insipid for the "audience") they put forth. As I have stated elsewhere, teachers prefer compliance and conformity, not two qualities which necessarily comport with or characterize a precocious child. I can appreciate where teachers are coming from, but it would not meet our needs, hence homeschooling...

 

In contrast, though, smart kids are more likely to master the box, excel in answering those questions that are asked, are satisfied with doing "A" work on what is provided to them. For example, a relative's child does "A" work at his private school. He is a very bright child. He strives to please and is thrilled with a smiley face on his paper.... now he may already know this material, but that is of no consequence. He filled in his work, received his smiley face, and life is good. OTOH, my son will not do work that he construes beneath him. He finds it offensive (no joke here) and becomes indignant at the mere suggestion. He needs to be challenged and refuses any less. This could certainly become tedious in a classroom where one is handed worksheet upon worksheet to complete. Going up two levels would be no different for a GT student... they would master it in summary fashion and be back at the same place, albeit in a higher level holding pattern. It is simply an untenable proposition for high ability students.

 

In my experience, life is simply a completely different experience for the GT population, not always an easy or pleasant one I would add.

[EKS]

There is a definite difference between a child being academically advanced because of "enrichment" or being gifted.

 

Just food for thought--if the result is the same, and I mean the entire result with the enriched kid functioning completely equivalently in all ways to the gifted one, then what is the difference?

[Capt_Uhura]

I've read many, many times and been told by a PS teacher, that in any class, generally speaking, the top 10-20% could be moved to the next grade and do fine. Imagine that top 20% being HS'd and allowed to move forward. Those are likely the academically motivated kids and the bright kids and some of the gifted kids.

[catz]

Just food for thought--if the result is the same, and I mean the entire result with the enriched kid functioning completely equivalently in all ways to the gifted one, then what is the difference?

 

I can't speak for all gifted kids, but if a less gifted child was achieving similarly to my child, I would be willing to bet they put in a major effort and are probably highly motivated and have a good willingness to work to learn new things. Excellent and important life skills IMHO. My kids do not have that. Part of my children's schooling is them learning how to learn and developing a work ethic because things are usually quite effortless for them.

 

Being gifted is not about what you know. It's about how you learn. Often it comes with an over the top sensitivity and emotional component. In class room enviroments the top students might be some highly motivated and engaged kids. And some kids who've put no effort in at all and coasting.

[mcconnellboys]

I think that some profoundly gifted students do have very different needs.

 

But I also think that there are many, many students today who are gifted in one or more areas of learning whose needs may never get met within most school districts. I also think that there are a huge number of kids who border on "gifted", or who are above average, and whose learning potential gets crushed in the boredom of the typical classroom such that they never achieve their true potential.

 

I think boys are particularly ill-served for the past 30 years or so. I see more and more parents of boys who homeschool, too.

 

I know profoundly gifted kids here whose learning needs do go beyond just learning at an advanced rate. I don't typically label my own children as gifted, and they certainly do not fall within the definition of profoundly gifted, but they are boys, I do think that their abilities are above average, they do also have some learning quirks or "disabilities" as some label them, and I do think that the particular needs of boys are not in general well-addressed where I live. So I have homeschooled.

 

I have seen a large number of "gifted" kids here being homeschooled in an attempt to address their particular needs. They may not homeschool for their entire school career, but for many it makes it possible for them to get what they need out of their education. Each one has his/her own unique story. I think education needs to be about the individual if we are to realize the potential of our children in this country as a whole.....

[RamonaQ]

Just food for thought--if the result is the same, and I mean the entire result with the enriched kid functioning completely equivalently in all ways to the gifted one, then what is the difference?

 

Personally, I believe that there is a distinction between academically advanced and gifted. Let's say that I school my child in such a way that she is several years ahead, which is not necessarily difficult given year long schooling and some discipline. Is my child now gifted? Note that in my example academic advanced is related to academic acceleration.

 

Personally I believe that a gifted individual has a very different mechanism of conceptual thinking and problem solving. They literally see things in ways that the vast majority of the population do not. These are the people that see connections, generalize, extrapolate, see the big picture, can filter away the noise, zero in on solutions, ask questions. These are the people that imagine things that others don't, and whose curiosity leads them in interesting directions. People that invent things, win noble prizes, revolutionize the arts and architecture...these are the things I think of when I think gifted.

 

Are more gifted kids homeschooled, I don't know for sure. One thing that I have read is that about 1/5 of gifted kids are dyslexic. Our neuropsych told us that 50% of gifted dyslexic kids are/ have been homeschooled. This therefore would imply that there is certainly an enrichment of the homeschool population in some kinds of gifted kids.

[Mandy in TN]

Don't gifted children have unique learning needs that are different from students who are advanced?

 

What has been your experience? Do you have a gifted student or know of some? Do you find that the student's learning needs go beyond learning at an advanced rate?

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1221064&postcount=18

 

This post spoke about gifted difference. The link in it to the Dabrowski article is interesting. It really talked about my oldest.

 

One thing that I have read is that about 1/5 of gifted kids are dyslexic. Our neuropsych told us that 50% of gifted dyslexic kids are/ have been homeschooled. This therefore would imply that there is certainly an enrichment of the homeschool population in some kinds of gifted kids.

My oldest is a challenging mildly gifted dyslexic.

Edited July 11, 2010 by Mandy in TN

[IsabelC]

From my limited experience, I would agree with the proposition that accelerated does not necessarily mean gifted, although some children will be both. My ds is 'ahead' in some areas but he is by no means gifted.

 

(As per usual, I would question the utility of the labeling thing. School kids may need to be categorized to determine their eligibility for special programs, but in the home environment it probably doesn't matter for many people. I'm going to do my best to educate my children in the most appropriate way for them, regardless of whether they are ahead or behind, or whether they are gifted, disabled or average.)

[catz]

From my limited experience, I would agree with the proposition that accelerated does not necessarily mean gifted, although some children will be both. My ds is 'ahead' in some areas but he is by no means gifted.

 

(As per usual, I would question the utility of the labeling thing. School kids may need to be categorized to determine their eligibility for special programs, but in the home environment it probably doesn't matter for many people. I'm going to do my best to educate my children in the most appropriate way for them, regardless of whether they are ahead or behind, or whether they are gifted, disabled or average.)

 

:iagree:I totally agree with the labeling when homeschooling. When my son was in school, we really did need the label, even though it didn't get us very far and I was uncomfortable with it. In some circumstances, the label has been useful or necessary. I wish there was a more technical term used than "gifted". When someone talks about autism or dyslexia, it doesn't stir the kind of connotations that the word gifted does. Gifted is a whole package, and not every piece of it feels like a gift when dealing with intellectually and emotionally intense children. :001_huh:

 

Homeschooling families have the ability to accommodate to individual children with individual needs. Now I'm just home educating "C", who is ready for algebra but still likes to climb trees, spin in the back yard, and is happy to chat pokeman or video games with age peers.

[Staceyshoe]

Just food for thought--if the result is the same, and I mean the entire result with the enriched kid functioning completely equivalently in all ways to the gifted one, then what is the difference?

 

I suppose the academic skills might be similar. While every gifted child is unique, there are definite trends in terms of personality and other issues they face--level of sensitivity, social fit, perfectionism, INTENSITY of amazing proportions, etc. There are issues we face with ds that really parallel issues of children with special needs.

[radiobrain]

There is a HUGE difference between Gifted and accelerated. You all know this. ;)

 

Gifted is how you process information and the ability to understand something either intuitively or quickly with little explanation. There are many degrees and types within this range, and in different areas. Accelerated is more of a work ethic. You can be a good studier, worker etc. but not be gifted. You can end up working ahead of grade, which HSing can do, but just be "normal". Also you can be extremely gifted and not want to do anything academic. I also believe that you can look academically behind but be moderately to profoundly gifted.

 

There are so many very gifted underacheivers. That would include me, and my brothers, and my parents. :D

 

I think that the gifted HS population is growing, and will continue to grow... as it is accepted more, and as schools continue to shortchange these kids.

Edited July 11, 2010 by radiobrain

[TracyP]

Personally, I believe that there is a distinction between academically advanced and gifted. Let's say that I school my child in such a way that she is several years ahead, which is not necessarily difficult given year long schooling and some discipline. Is my child now gifted? Note that in my example academic advanced is related to academic acceleration.

 

Personally I believe that a gifted individual has a very different mechanism of conceptual thinking and problem solving.

 

Looking at the K-8 board I do not find this be the case. Not to say that academically advanced equals gifted but I don't know if most kids can be years ahead just by year round home schooling and discipline. But, maybe I'm wrong. Which leads me to wonder how a person defines gifted. Do you have to have emotional/social issues? Score a certain level on a certain test? Have a different way of thinking and problem solving? What is gifted? How do you know the difference between gifted and accelerated?

[merry gardens]

...Are more gifted kids homeschooled, I don't know for sure. One thing that I have read is that about 1/5 of gifted kids are dyslexic. Our neuropsych told us that 50% of gifted dyslexic kids are/ have been homeschooled. This therefore would imply that there is certainly an enrichment of the homeschool population in some kinds of gifted kids.

I think that's a part of it. But also...

 

Schools are usually content when child performs "average." Smart kids with learning disabilities often look merely "average", because their strengths are brought down by their weaknesses, and their weaknesses brought up by their strengths. It can average out to "average." Smart parents who homeschool may be more likely to notice what's going on with their child if they see a smart child struggling with something. Other bright parents who notice a similar pattern may opt to homeschool, (at least for a time.) Homeschoolings allows individualized attention to address our children's weaknesses, while also working with their strengths. As we address and fix the weaknesses, the strengths can soar higher.

Edited July 11, 2010 by merry gardens

[angela in ohio]

We homeschool because our dc are gifted, especially for the middle dd who couldn't exist in a school setting, as far as I can tell. My gifted kiddos don't just think "better," they think "differently." It isn't the same as accelerated, athough they are also accelerated in most areas.

 

Gifted and other special needs kiddos will obviously make up a larger portion of the homeschool population. The decision to homeschool becomes more necessary when a school cannot meet your dc's needs.

 

However, the advantages of homeschooling also create students who are accelerated, although they are not gifted.

[angela in ohio]

Just food for thought--if the result is the same, and I mean the entire result with the enriched kid functioning completely equivalently in all ways to the gifted one, then what is the difference?

 

IMHO, the difference is that the accelerated child is probably performing at the top of their abilities and the gifted child is probably not being challenged enough and could/ needs to go higher.

[zaichiki]

Remember that giftedness, like so many things, operates on a continuum. There is no magic line across which a gifted child suddenly functions differently than a child who is not gifted. An "accelerated" child who is a handful of iq points below gifted may not learn differently than a moderately gifted child. Keep in mind that an mg child and a pg child will look vastly different.

[TracyP]

Remember that giftedness, like so many things, operates on a continuum. There is no magic line across which a gifted child suddenly functions differently than a child who is not gifted. An "accelerated" child who is a handful of iq points below gifted may not learn differently than a moderately gifted child. Keep in mind that an mg child and a pg child will look vastly different.

 

What you wrote seems so obvious but it is exactly what I needed to hear. I know my 2 oldest are accelerated and I know they are not PG. I know it is stupid and pointless but for some reason wondering "what" they are has kept me up at night. Thinking of a continuum rather than a magic line is so helpful. I can easily pick out where they are on that continuum and for some reason that puts my mind at ease. Thank you.:D

[RamonaQ]

Looking at the K-8 board I do not find this be the case. Not to say that academically advanced equals gifted but I don't know if most kids can be years ahead just by year round home schooling and discipline. But, maybe I'm wrong. Which leads me to wonder how a person defines gifted. Do you have to have emotional/social issues? Score a certain level on a certain test? Have a different way of thinking and problem solving? What is gifted? How do you know the difference between gifted and accelerated?

 

Concerning acceleration- this notion is from a family recently discussed on the General board. The Swann family who year-round schooled, and the kids completed high school at some incredibly early age, 8 yo, maybe. Possibly the kids are gifted to allow this, possibly not. Honestly, it seems like tremendous discipline to me.

 

I think you have hit upon the issue. I think people define "gifted" in several different ways-- some based on standardized IQ tests, some based on comparison to a peer group, some achievements, some on academic acceleration.

 

I suppose in the end, it really doesn't matter in the homeschooling environment since you will do and respond with whatever is necessary. At this point, the only time that I am seeing it matter is applying to various Gifted type programs/ classes that require certification of some sort.

[SunshineMom]

I don't know if I have the answer but here are a few things I have noticed (PS I have not test my dd): My 7dd takes things in more than I realize and then applies that information to her surroundings. She integrates her knowledge across subjects. She is quick to recognize information she has either read or heard before so he gets bored very easily with old information. She kind of has an "excitable energy about her (ie talks fast, moves quickly, thinks on her feet well, asks questions)" which does make me feel anxious at times, literally shaking (other adults have observed this and said they would have a hard time with that). She is not ADD or anything, just everything is fast but then at times she is very contemplative. She has asked me to create an animal study guide for her regarding big cats. She wants to be a wildlife vet. We talked about her interests, expectations, resources and projects she would like to do. I typed it up and now she has her first real "research assignment." She is driving this idea. Whether she is gifted or accelerated doesn't really need to be answered for me. I suspect she probably is somewhat gifted but I'm not sure that would change our homeschool experience for I am already providing her "gifted curriculum" so that box is checked. I do know that homeschooling allows for us to dive into subjects which can be tricky if resources are lacking. We go on tons of field trips unlike ps students. Yesterday we took a 2 1/2 hr bird identification class with a naturalist thru a wildlife refuge. My kids were the only children in the class (12+adults made up the rest) and they stayed actively involved. I think homeschool children often have longer attention spans which can impact learning. I certainly don't think homeschool "makes a child gifted" but I do think "gifted qualities" shine more in a homeschool environment which in turn can be nurtured. Accelerated vs gifted...I am not sure if I know the difference unless we are talking about PG then I think that is another story.

[Crimson Wife]

GT students tend to be the ones who are asking the questions, not merely raising their hand to answer those matters presented to them....In contrast, though, smart kids are more likely to master the box, excel in answering those questions that are asked, are satisfied with doing "A" work on what is provided to them. For example, a relative's child does "A" work at his private school. He is a very bright child. He strives to please and is thrilled with a smiley face on his paper.... now he may already know this material, but that is of no consequence. He filled in his work, received his smiley face, and life is good. OTOH, my son will not do work that he construes beneath him. He finds it offensive (no joke here) and becomes indignant at the mere suggestion. He needs to be challenged and refuses any less. This could certainly become tedious in a classroom where one is handed worksheet upon worksheet to complete.

 

I think this is more a personality issue rather than a difference between GT and garden-variety bright kids.

 

Some GT kids embrace the "teacher's pet" role and learn quickly how to excel at the "game" of school. They may be bored out of their minds but because they've bought into the whole Ivy League obsession they dutifully comply with their teachers. I was one of these.

 

Other GT kids are like your son (and my brother) who rebel against anything they consider to be "busywork" and don't give a d*** about GPA's, honors & awards, and the coveted Ivy League acceptance letter.

 

It's been my observation that GT girls are more likely to fall into the first group and GT boys are more likely to fall into the second. But certainly there are plenty of female "underachievers" and male "overachievers".

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

Other GT kids are like your son (and my brother) who rebel against anything they consider to be "busywork" and don't give a d*** about GPA's, honors & awards, and the coveted Ivy League acceptance letter.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

I had never really thought about it this way, but for the most part, my 6yo daughter cannot be swayed into doing "boring" things by bribery. If she earns things by doing what she likes to do, she is thrilled, but if she is adamant about not doing something, there is no changing her mind. This applies to chore charts, too.

[jillian]

dh i truly believe is extremely smart (Gifted or not i'm not sure) but he just gave up in school and quit trying to do well, he lost the interest. However he is one of those children who would've done wonderfully with Unschooling because he is extremely interest led--if he needs to know it he will learn it.

 

Me on the other hand I was evaluated and labeled as GT but had the "teacher's pet" aspect (the asking questions, going above and beyond, trying more than that A grade) teased and pushed out of me. I began to be a "non-learner" and do just what I could to get the passing grade (which usually with the exception of a few areas was a high grade).

 

DD is clearly gifted in several areas and I don't know if that's because of genetics or because of the environment or both. We are desperately trying to balance the need to challenge dd (i.e. help her try activities that might be out of the comfort zone) and let her just follow her interests. She's 2 1/2 but she craves brain stimulating activities and body stimulating activities.

 

Not sure what the point of this post was lol. I guess giftedness/acceleration is absolutely individual and what is considered gifted/accelerated to one family/group is not considered in another. I keep trying to remember that there is a continuum.

[Gratia271]

I think this is more a personality issue rather than a difference between GT and garden-variety bright kids.

 

Some GT kids embrace the "teacher's pet" role and learn quickly how to excel at the "game" of school. They may be bored out of their minds but because they've bought into the whole Ivy League obsession they dutifully comply with their teachers. I was one of these.

 

Other GT kids are like your son (and my brother) who rebel against anything they consider to be "busywork" and don't give a d*** about GPA's, honors & awards, and the coveted Ivy League acceptance letter.

 

It's been my observation that GT girls are more likely to fall into the first group and GT boys are more likely to fall into the second. But certainly there are plenty of female "underachievers" and male "overachievers".

 

I agree about GT girls being more susceptible to being in the first group. Maybe it is a distinction without a difference, but here goes. My oldest daughter will do the insipid work that is beneath her ability-wise; however, she does not derive gratification from said performance. Like me when I was in school, she complies out of respect but finds no satisfaction in it where she has not been challenged. People who know her find that baffling because for so many the paradigm is high performance = gratification/accomplishment/validation etc... I simply don't find that to be the case with GT kids, even where they willingly conform. They seem to have an internal sense, standard, or paradigm that dictates their view of themselves. I think this is how some brilliant people appear to never be satisfied with themselves... they simply have not achieved anything great in their own estimation. This, of course, is just my experience, and it may not be representative of the larger group.

 

I agree regarding the gender distinctions and susceptibility to one or the other group. I do believe that it partly stems from females being more likely to conform for acceptance or validation, which males generally don't need or even desire to the same extent. As far as underachievers, my brother was definitely this. OTOH, my son works diligently provided sufficient challenge. He finds many adults disingenous and dull in their approach to him. He finds much of the material others have tried to hand him the same. I think GT kids are highly perceptive at an earlier age (maybe a more sensitive "BS radar"), and they don't like being condescended to by books or by people. If he is given challenging materials, he derives much satisfaction from his studies.

[Barry Goldwater]

She has no problem with reading and writing, but struggles with spelling and math. It is so shocking for us when she was so advance in math before:(

 

Has anybody experience the same problem like I do with my oldest child?

Do you have a child who was academically gifted and now just doing OK in fields where he/she used to be several years ahead of his/her peers?

 

 

 

Not even attempting diagnosing at all, but can suggest the books, 'Unicorns are Real,' 'Stealth Dyslexia,' and 'The Gift of Dyslexia.' I AM NOT SUGGESTING ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR PARTICULAR CASE. But our DD 10 is an excellent (college level) reader, superb artist and brilliant writer, BUT STRUGGLED SEVERELY WITH SPELLING, and some math as well. Which drove us crazy...The two olders, who are both GT, one profoundly, never had that issue. The books gave us some tools to get through some minor 'synaptic blocks' that may have been occuring w/ DD10...now her spelling is much improved, and the math is fully on track again.

 

REGARDING HS & GIFTED...when my kids were born, I held a core belief that children are delivered to us by God, fully equipped to learn and discover...all we really need to do is cultivate and get out of the way. Expose them to interesting, stimulating experiences...answer every question as completely as possible, never giving in to fatigue or impatience. Fostering interconnections between topics, and most importantly, MODELING...easy examples, if you want kids that are readers, read. If you want polite kids, be polite. (for me) If you want them to respect their mother, respect your wife. If you want patient kids, be patient. If you want them to love learning, make sure you love learning.

 

I'll never know if this 'created' our GTs or if they came to us that way (nature or nurture?), but I'm highly satisfied with our results so far.

 

My PS experience as a youth did not cultivate anything like the above...despite being GT classified...it only meant more meaningless busy work and stigmatizing...part of the reason for desiring HS for mine, particularly when the GT aspects began emerging at such an early age...I did not want to imprison them in a cold, boring uncreative environment for 14,000 hrs of their youth.

[SnegurochkaL]

Not even attempting diagnosing at all, but can suggest the books, 'Unicorns are Real,' 'Stealth Dyslexia,' and 'The Gift of Dyslexia.' I AM NOT SUGGESTING ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR PARTICULAR CASE. But our DD 10 is an excellent (college level) reader, superb artist and brilliant writer, BUT STRUGGLED SEVERELY WITH SPELLING, and some math as well. Which drove us crazy...The two olders, who are both GT, one profoundly, never had that issue. The books gave us some tools to get through some minor 'synaptic blocks' that may have been occuring w/ DD10...now her spelling is much improved, and the math is fully on track again.

 

Thank you for your answer. I will try to read the books you recommended. I think I made a mistake pushing math on my child when she wasn't interested. My husband and I are very good in math so math was my priority choice along with foreign languages. My dd wanted to study languages so I let her. I know my child is gifted but I am not sure about the level of it. She was a late speaker but it was not unexpected in our situation. She was playing educational PC games for 6-8 years old when she was only 2. She wasn't ready to read or ready for phonics comparing to many kids of her age but my husband thought she was an underachiever because she wasn't doing the "regular things". She was so emotionally insecure ( and still is) so other than homeschool environment would not work for her. When I introduced phonograms( including 3-4 letter one) to her, she was reading withing 2 month very advance books (not early readers). She went from official non-reader to level 3 and above reader. I don't like to compare her to some kids of her age. She is different and very sensitive to criticism. Any test( IQ or giftness) she might take as criticism or a try to find out what she doesn't know). That is one of the reason I haven't tested her for giftness. She need to have more self-confidence. She is figure skating and it helps her to get over her insecurity. My child was called stupid by her peers but defended herself. She asked me why she was called stupid when there was no reason for that. She just didn't act or perform the way some kids expected her so she was rejected as a non-qualified.

 

I think gifted kids are more sensitive to environment that smart or regular kids. It was true in my case when I were a child or in my daughter's case.

Any opinion regarding this statement. I might be wrong:)

Edited July 12, 2010 by SneguochkaL

[Barry Goldwater]

I think gifted kids are more sensitive to environment that smart or regular kids. It was true in my case when I were a child or in my daughter's case.

Any opinion regarding this statement. I might be wrong:)

 

Not wrong to us...we have had similar experiences...everything from extraordinary sensitivity to loud noises, to a remarkably mature perception of their own or others' emotions. Also, high personal sensitivity to criticism, crassness, and abrupt behavior...It's been interesting!

[HeidiD]

can suggest the books, 'Unicorns are Real,' 'Stealth Dyslexia,' and 'The Gift of Dyslexia.'

 

 

>>Also, "The Mislabeled Child". Quite an eye-opener - I hadn't heard of stealth dyslexia until I came across it there. One of my children falls into this category. He was reading at college level at 10 yo also. But he's dyslexic.

[AndyJoy]

Here's another thought - I believe that many of the GT kids being homeschooled have parents who are GT (at least one, in many cases both). The majority of those parents probably had the experience of being identified as GT in a ps setting, and think they can provide a better learning exp. for their kids themselves. In most cases, they're right.

 

:iagree:I don't know yet if my son is gifted, but if he is, he will be homeschooled by gifted parents who were dissatisfied with their public & private school educations and think they can do a better job.:D

[Charles Wallace]

Not too long ago I was reading about the prevalence of gifted students among the homeschool population. It was suggested that there is a greater percentage of gifted students who are homeschooled than in public schools because public schools aren't meeting their needs. But someone suggested that perhaps many of these high achieving homeschooled children were not gifted at all, but advanced because of one on one instruction. Don't gifted children have unique learning needs that are different from students who are advanced?

 

What has been your experience? Do you have a gifted student or know of some? Do you find that the student's learning needs go beyond learning at an advanced rate?

 

Yes, they do. Here's something that might help clarify the difference.

 

* A gifted student may be advanced, but an advanced student may not be gifted.

* A gifted student understands a concept with fewer repetitions. Normally (as an average), we need to see a reasonably challenging concept about 7 times before we "get it." Gifted children "get it" sooner.

* An advanced student knows more knowledge or more skills. A gifted student is one with greater potential.

 

For example, if we compare kids to measuring cups, most kids will have eight-ounce cups. An average kid might have her or his "cup" filled up halfway -- to four ounces. An advanced kid might start out school with his "cup" filled up to six ounces. A gifted kid might also start out school with her "cup" filled up to six ounces...but she can hold 16. Where the advanced kid will eventually find learning too difficult (that is, his cup runneth over), the gifted kid will have a higher threshold before s/he fails to understand a concept.

 

* A gifted student learns faster and retains the information longer. An advanced student works hard. Often in traditional school, this results in the following seemingly-paradoxical situation in which the advanced child has far better grades than the gifted one. This is because school has reasonably challenged the advanced child, who has learned the value of studying and hard work. It has bored the gifted child, who has learned the value of messing around and procrastination.

 

In terms of homeschooling, the value for the gifted child is that the curriculum -- in all subjects -- can be located at her or his "zone of proximal development," or what I think of as the pre-frustration place: the level at which it's challenging and sometimes frustrating, but not SO frustrating that it results in tears and avoidance and hatred of the subject matter -- and yet not so easy that it fails to teach the value of struggle and persistence. For some gifted kids, this may mean that they are studying five different subjects at five different challenge levels, but what would be an organizational nightmare in the school system is a no-brainer-no-biggie at home. It's no problem if a kid is studying high school English and science, middle school math, and beginning piano.

 

That said, though, the ability to tailor curriculum is beneficial for EVERY child. That might be why many homeschooled children appear to be advanced: they're taught at their levels of challenge and waste very little time in waiting for other people to "get it" before moving on.

 

The other issue is simply a practical one: even if your children (like almost everyone's!) are profoundly normal, homeschooling frequently doesn't go on for less than half the year like traditional school does. Speaking at least for the Wallace Girl's School, we homeschool all the time. We may take a break for vacations or whatever, but even then, we're probably reading something or bringing along some kind of book or workbook or activity.

 

Let's do the math: If you took Sundays off plus another 40 days for vacation time, sickness, the inconvenient plumber visit, the longwinded relative on the phone who sucks up all your homeschooling time, and so on, you'd still be teaching 273 days of the year, or roughly 74% of the time. Contrast this to the typical 180 day/year schedule of the public school. Assuming that a teacher teaches 100% of those days -- that not even one spare second is lost to assemblies, fire drills, snow days, or sickness -- that's only about 49% of the year. With that kind of difference, it's no wonder that a delightfully average learner quickly becomes an advanced one.

 

I hope this helps clarify!!:D

Edited July 13, 2010 by Charles Wallace

[dhudson]

I have one child who is highly to profoundly gifted and two are very bright but are advanced because they are home schooled. My GT child is more sensitive and would not do as well in a traditional school setting. He learns at an alarming rate ( I often feel like I am throwing info at him) but has the emotional capability of a child his age (12). If I put him in a traditional school he would drown because his academics are so far ahead of his emotional developement.

 

Teaching both kinds is very different and I am grateful that I can tailor their education to meet their needs. I was labeled GT and was both ps and home schooled and home schooling met my needs much better.

 

I think hs'ing can make kids more advanced but being and having a GT is a different thing altogether.

[AnitaMcC]

When the public school tested my ds, they told me that they had never encountered a child with an IQ that high. They had no idea what to do with him and were surprisingly candid about it. The gifted program at the school would not have come close to meeting his needs. If he was not highly gifted, we would not be a homeschooling family. Faced with the choices of a school for highly gifted with a tuition of $11K/year and 2 hrs commuting every day or having a totally inappropriate setting for him (the gifted program at pub school) or homeschooling, there really wasn't much of a choice to be made. A few years ago, I would have laughed if someone had told me that I would decide to homeschool, but it's amazing what paths we can find ourselves on as parents trying to do what's best for our kids.

 

This is basically where we are too... for Ds. For 9 ps years we were constantly told by the schools "We don't know what to do with him". Ds is an Aspie and so with his giftedness he has other issues. But the main thing was that the schools could not meet his academic needs at his level. In 3rd grade he was tested at reading college level, but writing at 1st grade level. Found out it was more to do with the physical part of writing.. he didn't have the hand grip strength and coordination. Then add in that he just could not "see" words in cursive writing. He still cannot write/read in cursive and he is 15yrs old.

 

But if it wasn't for the fact that at the age of 14 he placed into freshman college courses at the CC (with "only" a 8th grade education), he would be in high school instead. We opted to homeschool him to meet his academic and special needs.

 

His twin sister is homeschooled for other reasons. She is a bright student but her extreme talents are in music and martial arts. Right now she spends about 30 hours a week studying, teaching, and training in Kung Fu/TaeKwonDo for the Olympics. She takes lessons for piano, guitar, drums, and music theory at a music school near us twice a week.

Edited July 14, 2010 by AnitaMcC