Geek Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 :w00t: Are we talking humanism here?! Excuse me while go pinch myself. :001_smile: I know, right? I've been pinching myself ever since I started spending time here recently (been a member for ages) and discovering all the freethinkers I didn't know were here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calandalsmom Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I hope Im teaching my kids to think but I do not think Im teaching them how to think.;) They think how they think, and as long as they are thinking Im ok with whatever they come up with. (Tho here I'll admit I have a big fat ugly bias against certain types of thought and I hope they don't embrace some doctrines which bother me so so much.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourjourneys Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Yes, Rose.. Thank you for the feedback. You are right, I think, about the term world view. We do need to have some 'ownership' of the term for ourselves. However, like someone mentioned, I don't want my children to have a certain world view. I just want them to be free spirits and have their own paths while trying their best to understand how others are thinking and feeling along the way. I guess an educated world view through secular history with respect for all people. I have not read many of the authors that you are quoting (on my way to the library today) and I have most always heard the term world view spoken from a Christian context. Thanks for this discussion. It is still going strong and there's so much more to learn. Thank you to all of our fellow free thinkers too!! I did not realize there would be so many on this board. It is great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourjourneys Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 We have many discussions about all religions. I'm very careful to tell my boys what *I* believe and that it doesn't have to be what they believe. Just as they wouldn't be angry at me for my beliefs, so too can they not be angry/rude/disrespectful to others for their beliefs. I teach tolerance above all else. We talk about how religion plays a role in how people are raised, the way they act, the actions they take and even the wars they wage. I haven't found a text or curriculum that addresses these ideas. It's more like I utilize every opportunity to educate. "Gods don't kill people, It's people with gods that kill people" (not sure where that quote is from, but I read it somewhere)... I always think of this when we are studying religion and history. Most wars and atrocities have been committed because someone thought their thought was right and must be forced on others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saille Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 "Gods don't kill people, It's people with gods that kill people" (not sure where that quote is from, but I read it somewhere)... I always think of this when we are studying religion and history. Most wars and atrocities have been committed because someone thought their thought was right and must be forced on others. I think there's a difference between dogmatism and worldview, at least the way Rose is describing it. Worldview appears to be shorthand for being reflective about what you can and should do about what you believe. In some cases, people might come to the conclusion that furthering religious absolutism is the answer to that question, but worldview is specific to the individual even if large groups share overarching worldview principles. And non-religious, or non-evangelical, or any other sort of people can have worldviews. In my case, my worldview is focused through the lens of a religion that believes in universal salvation, so my worldview has to do with transcending religious differences, not emphasizing them. Hopefully I'm explaining that correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted June 30, 2010 Author Share Posted June 30, 2010 We teach them the correct way to chew food (mouth closed, please). We teach them the correct wasy to honor their parents . . . . . Oh, shoot. I knew I was leaving gaps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted June 30, 2010 Author Share Posted June 30, 2010 Most wars and atrocities have been committed because someone thought their thought was right and must be forced on others. I'd argue that most wars and atrocities have been committed because someone thought their distribution of resources was right and must be forced on others. Religion, or these days political ideologies, was just a good cover story. It's harder to get mothers to give up their sons for land acquisition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Just wanted to say I am really enjoying this thread! We are Christians, but christians who defianetly do not have it all figured out!!!! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelanieM Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I don't know that I have much to add to this awesome thread, but I have to jump in just so I can be a part of it. :D As for the term worldview... Until this thread, I didn't realize there was a specific group of people that came to mind upon hearing the term! I talk about my worldview all the time. I suppose I've had my head in the sand and missed all those "worldview means X" conversations. Rose, thanks for starting this fabulous thread. It's given me a lot to chew on. Saille, I think I love you. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourjourneys Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Yes, completely understand... thanks for the discussion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanamom Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Hmm- it's been a while since college <grin>... but my degree is in the Social Sciences... And to me, the term "worldview" is a complex interweaving of psychology, sociology, and anthropology. What is worldview other than perspective shaped by culture, society, and individual variation? Perhaps worldview in a secular sense could just be taught by framing our teaching of history, literature etc, a certain way. Why do these people act like this? What is their motivation? What is the culture, the times? This is pretty much how I see it. :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Hmm- it's been a while since college <grin>... but my degree is in the Social Sciences... And to me, the term "worldview" is a complex interweaving of psychology, sociology, and anthropology. What is worldview other than perspective shaped by culture, society, and individual variation? This is pretty much how I see it. :). :iagree: Yes, this. Most of us teach our children our own worldview, either unconsciously by modeling or through conscious effort. I certainly do. What this thread has made me think about is how I want to teach ds to recognize a worldview, his own or someone else's, and use that recognition to help him understand past action and start to understand and predict possible future actions. DA mentioned it as being similar to teaching logic formally rather than just encouraging a child to think, and that makes sense to me. Also, I think one can use the term narrowly to mean a single person's worldview or more broadly to talk about a society's worldview, and the meaning changes slightly between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saille Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Saille, I think I love you. :D Seriously? I knew I loved you like, a couple of weeks ago! :tongue_smilie: I always enjoy your posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 One of the ways I plan to mitigate the concerns SWB has raised about the bloody nature of Modern history is by focusing on the role that conscientious folk played in protecting victims and standing for social justice throughout that period...journalists like Jacob Riis, musicians like Woody Guthrie, activists like Susan B. Anthony...is that the sort of thing you mean? I think this is a really excellent point and it's something I've tried to do with my kids. Not only were there activists like Susan B. Anthony, but there were a lot of non-activists on their side. Wilson really started to lose his fight against the suffragists because of the outrage that took place when stories about their treatment in prison came out. There were white abolitionists, Davy Crockett fought against Indian Removal, there were white civil rights workers who regularly risked their lives in the sixties. Yeah, this is true for me too. What term should we use if not "teaching worldview"? Or should we take the phrase back? I would call it literary criticism, because that's my area of expertise. ;) Looking at a book called The Decay and Restoration of Civilization (where a lot of this worldview stuff was first printed), I am pulling out the following questions: What significance in the world has the society in which I live? What significance in the world have I myself, or has an individual? What do we want to do in the world? What do we hope to get back from the world? What is our duty to the world? But I don't know that these are the ones I want to use. I realize that simple putting "world" there instead of something else -- nature, God, gods, universe, my fellow man, myself-- isn't quite fully honest. There is a TED talk about dying suburbs in which the speaker talks about the need to stop using the word consumer and start using the word citizen. :w00t: Are we talking humanism here?! Excuse me while go pinch myself. :001_smile: You dirty girl. ;) I dislike marginalization efforts of all kinds, and I do try to avoid giving credence to the terminology marginalizers use. I can appreciate the logic behind Mrs. Mungo's suggestion to re-claim the term, but that is not the route I could find myself taking. Well, and that's really what I was saying in my post. I would have trouble using that word because of its baggage. I don't think I understand the "worldview" thing. I have only been homeschooling a short time and haven't delved in depth into some education philosophies. I looked at the worldview website and I did see this essay. http://www.thegreatbooks.com/essays/avoid.html Which seems to be satire. Even so, it is strikingly similar to what I heard a certain popular homeschool author saying in a talk at our last conference. "Gods don't kill people, It's people with gods that kill people" (not sure where that quote is from, but I read it somewhere)... I always think of this when we are studying religion and history. Most wars and atrocities have been committed because someone thought their thought was right and must be forced on others. I don't really agree with that, but dragons beat me to it. :) I'd argue that most wars and atrocities have been committed because someone thought their distribution of resources was right and must be forced on others. Religion, or these days political ideologies, was just a good cover story. It's harder to get mothers to give up their sons for land acquisition. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanamom Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 :iagree: Yes, this. Most of us teach our children our own worldview, either unconsciously by modeling or through conscious effort. I certainly do. What this thread has made me think about is how I want to teach ds to recognize a worldview, his own or someone else's, and use that recognition to help him understand past action and start to understand and predict possible future actions. DA mentioned it as being similar to teaching logic formally rather than just encouraging a child to think, and that makes sense to me. Also, I think one can use the term narrowly to mean a single person's worldview or more broadly to talk about a society's worldview, and the meaning changes slightly between the two. :iagree: In a larger context... the "Societal or Cultural Worldview" has its own term: Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I hope Im teaching my kids to think but I do not think Im teaching them how to think.;) They think how they think, and as long as they are thinking Im ok with whatever they come up with. (Tho here I'll admit I have a big fat ugly bias against certain types of thought and I hope they don't embrace some doctrines which bother me so so much.)Hey, you! WTF are you doing here? :laughing: Good to see you. I think. I think that I think you think I don't think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted June 30, 2010 Author Share Posted June 30, 2010 :iagree: In a larger context... the "Societal or Cultural Worldview" has its own term: Zeitgeist And here all this time I've been trying so hard not to link the Wikipedia page on world view. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Such a great thread! I've been pondering on this while reading, I really think that we teach worldview with everything we think/read/talk about. We discuss our beliefs and other peoples beliefs and the things that influence the actions of ourselves and others. I do not wish to teach worldview in the sense the Christians do though. I grew up with that worldview; the my way is the only way and if you don't believe my way you are going to hell. I don't want that for my kids, I want them to come to their own understanding of what is truth for them, I have no wish to indocrinate them in anything, and if they grow to believe in the Christian god, or any other god or gods then so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Hmm- it's been a while since college <grin>... but my degree is in the Social Sciences... And to me, the term "worldview" is a complex interweaving of psychology, sociology, and anthropology. What is worldview other than perspective shaped by culture, society, and individual variation? Ditto. When I first saw references to "worldview" courses I thought it was really cool that there were cultural anthropology courses for homeschoolers. :tongue_smilie: Then I started clicking links and reading websites and discovered that what homeschoolers mean by "worldview" is basically the opposite of the way anthropologists use it. Maybe we could use the original German word, weltanshauung, to distinguish what most of us in this thread mean, since the term "worldview" has come to mean something very different. ETA: Zeitgeist has a slightly different meaning: "the spirit of the time." For example, the "zeitgeist of the 1960s" in the US would be slightly different from the overall American "worldview" (weltanshauung) at that time. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Oh, shoot. I knew I was leaving gaps!LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisabees Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Shoot. I am so tired from my long day. I'll be back with my thoughts tomorrow. The view of my world right now is through half-closed eyelids. Loving this thread and loving the like-minded souls. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Not really *formally.* But I think we discuss worldview, and tie it to actions and history, every day. We're big talkers and analyzers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 I know, right? I've been pinching myself ever since I started spending time here recently (been a member for ages) and discovering all the freethinkers I didn't know were here. Might be time for a role-call thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Might be time for a role-call thread? Good idea :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted July 1, 2010 Author Share Posted July 1, 2010 Good idea :) Go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 I'm glad to see someone asked this question and have enjoyed reading the responses plus learning a few things about what 'worldview' means. I tend to shy away from that word because of my own negative personal experience. I'm not even sure I could clearly state what my worldview is at this point; only that it's done a 180 over the last 10 years or so. I don't formally teach a 'worldview', but I do intentionally look for opportunities to discuss it with my children when studying history, reading, watching TV, anytime an opportunity presents itself. I want them to be able to recognize the worldview of others in order to better understand people and, hopefully, be able to reach across cultural, political, religious lines. I'm not sure that I've been at all successful, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 (edited) Might be time for a role-call thread?Yes. But I'm kind of new here. I'll pass that thread-starting baton to you regulars. :D ETA Just discovered the Secular WTMers group here. Do you guys go to the site referenced there? (Heathens R Us) (Have any of you been here? There's a forum, but it's not very active at present.) Edited July 1, 2010 by Geek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 There's a secular WTMers group here? Where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 There's a secular WTMers group here? Where? The newbie knows something? :001_huh: (Well, technically I've been a member for a while, but--) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 It's in the Community Tab under Social Groups. It's pretty dead though, well was last time I looked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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