College admission said I can't give 1 credit for both apologia science courses

[PeterPan]

Regena, most transcripts I evaluated had years (2009-2010) or grade year marked. If they didn't and everything was pretty obvious and straightforward, we didn't call. However I did have some transcripts that raised questions, and on those we called for clarification. If Quiver has a good rationale for what she did and can explain what she did, she's going to be fine. And ABSOLUTELY the test scores are the big validator for homeschool transcripts. As you say, places are trying, pretty much, to take homeschoolers for their word. And yes, that's the great irony, that officialness or time spent doesn't correlate always to learning. My favorite memory is from the transcripts of two dc applying to the university, homeschooled by their mother who had been a high school dropout. The woman had 8 kids and worked HARD to give her kids a good education, keeping one step ahead of them in math, etc. She got them through calculus, and the kids had great test scores!

[creekland]

 

You know, the more I think about this, the more odd it seems to me. I'm not familiar enough with the Apologia Adv. Chem book. Does it go all the way back to the beginning and start OVER with topics, like Zumdahl or any typical text used for AP chem? Or does it pick up with the 2nd half of topics they would have covered in a full AP class? Don't know if I'm making sense here. If the Apol. adv. chem book, by itself, covers the same material as any other AP/2nd year text (Zumdahl, whatever), then absolutely I would fight and finagle to get that counted that way on the transcript. Add the labs, get the time up, get the credit. But IF the book actually sort of takes a part 1, part 2 approach, covering the 2nd half of a through scope & sequence, then I would more logically call completing the two books together a single, honors chem class.

 

 

 

I don't yet know what the Apologia Advanced Chem book covers as I haven't ordered it yet, BUT... what you claimed ps courses do - go back to the beginning and start over in more depth - is NOT what our ps does in Advanced Chem or Advanced Bio. In those courses they simply cover the 2nd half of the book with maybe a little overlap in strategic areas, but not much. Kids get two science credits for their efforts. Not all kids take Advanced Bio or Advanced Chem. Roughly 30 or so take Bio, maybe 15 take Chem (graduating class in the 300s). Some of the Bio kids get college credits for their effort. It might be the same with Chem, I'm not sure.

[TravelingChris]

FIrst of all, advanced chemistry is an AP equivalent course, not just a second part of chemistry. I say this because we compared BJU and Apologia chemistry and except for a chapter or two, (and BJU has many, many chapters, more than a normal classroom would do in one year), they covered the same material. I am not looking at them now but I believe that the main thing Apologia didn't cover in Chemistry was nuclear chemistry, which wasn't covered in either mine nor my husband's chemistry class either. Advanced Chemistry covers material that is in a normal second year of chemistry class which is often AP Chemistry. Now about taking more than one science in a school year, my husband and all of my kids are ending up doing this. My son did an environmental science class which was worth one high school credit in the summer. He then did CHemistry that year. My older daughter did Biology last year, is doing Earth Science this summer, and will do Physics next year. My husband did 5 science courses in high school since he did Biology, CHemistry, Physics, AP CHemistry, AP Physics. I expect my youngest to do even more since she is doing Earth Science this summer and then will do Physics, CHemstry, Biology, AP Physics and maybe AP CHemistry too.

 

My kids do more work than typical high schoolers since they work year round and often on weekends. Then they also work faster. I tend to keep credits down to no more than something like 27 or 28 but they really could have more.

[Barb_]

I am doing his transcript myself. I don't have grades such as 9th, 10th and so on. Instead I listed each subject area. Under science he has listed:

biology

chemistry

advanced chem

physics

avanced physics

 

 

What if you listed it like this:

 

Biology

Chemistry I

Physics I

Honors Chemistry II

Honors Physics II

 

Calling them I and II and grouping them by level may help to visually differentiate them.

 

Barb

[Quiver0f10]

What if you listed it like this:

 

Biology

Chemistry I

Physics I

Honors Chemistry II

Honors Physics II

 

Calling them I and II and grouping them by level may help to visually differentiate them.

 

Barb

 

That does look better than what I listed. My only question is that she said I need to put school year dates( which I have never done) so the years would be out of order. Do you think it matters?

[tvaleri]

You could also contact Apologia for some assistance. They are very helpful and reply promptly. A while back I had an issue with the school and an earth science credit. Apologia to the rescue =D

 

Smiles,

Teresa

[Barb_]

That does look better than what I listed. My only question is that she said I need to put school year dates( which I have never done) so the years would be out of order. Do you think it matters?

 

It may, but if they are going to question, they will question regardless of how it is set up. I did my transcript this way. I put the courses in descending order of difficulty: hardest, most recent course at the top and working backwards down the page in each subject area. I honestly can't remember if I included dates or not. I know my earliest transcripts didn't have dates, but I think I wound up including them on later versions. Since some courses took place over only a few months and others were stretched out over a couple of years, I only included ending dates.

 

So it would look something like this:

 

Course School Attended Grade Points Completed

 

Calculus II Estrella Mountain Community College A 5.0 05/07

Calculus I Estrella Mountain Community College A 5.0 12/06

Pre-Calculus Independent Homestudy B 3.0 08/06

Algebra II Independent Homestudy A- 3.67 07/05

Geometry Independent Homestudy A 4.0 11/04

Algebra I Pre-High School N/A

 

 

Shoot! I don't know HTML coding so I have no idea how to format this right. I hope it's readable. The point is, I put the actual completion dates in rather than just list the end of the semester. It made the dates harder to tease out, so no one questioned them;

 

Barb

[PeterPan]

I don't yet know what the Apologia Advanced Chem book covers as I haven't ordered it yet, BUT... what you claimed ps courses do - go back to the beginning and start over in more depth - is NOT what our ps does in Advanced Chem or Advanced Bio. In those courses they simply cover the 2nd half of the book with maybe a little overlap in strategic areas, but not much. Kids get two science credits for their efforts.

 

Gotcha. There's also an AP course that covers EVERYTHING in one year, both levels. Students get one credit and the glory of the name on their transcript (ha).

[PeterPan]

FIrst of all, advanced chemistry is an AP equivalent course, not just a second part of chemistry. I say this because we compared BJU and Apologia chemistry and except for a chapter or two, (and BJU has many, many chapters, more than a normal classroom would do in one year), they covered the same material. ... Advanced Chemistry covers material that is in a normal second year of chemistry class which is often AP Chemistry.

 

I'm so on the cusp but still missing what you mean. I haven't used the BJU high school science. Are you saying people consider it AP level?? Were you comparing the Apologia chem 1 or adv. chem to the coverage in BJU?

[Quiver0f10]

It may, but if they are going to question, they will question regardless of how it is set up. I did my transcript this way. I put the courses in descending order of difficulty: hardest, most recent course at the top and working backwards down the page in each subject area. I honestly can't remember if I included dates or not. I know my earliest transcripts didn't have dates, but I think I wound up including them on later versions. Since some courses took place over only a few months and others were stretched out over a couple of years, I only included ending dates.

 

So it would look something like this:

 

Course School Attended Grade Points Completed

 

Calculus II Estrella Mountain Community College A 5.0 05/07

Calculus I Estrella Mountain Community College A 5.0 12/06

Pre-Calculus Independent Homestudy B 3.0 08/06

Algebra II Independent Homestudy A- 3.67 07/05

Geometry Independent Homestudy A 4.0 11/04

Algebra I Pre-High School N/A

 

 

Shoot! I don't know HTML coding so I have no idea how to format this right. I hope it's readable. The point is, I put the actual completion dates in rather than just list the end of the semester. It made the dates harder to tease out, so no one questioned them;

 

Barb

 

Sent you a PM.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I don't like the idea of counting hours. I did 7th-10th grades (only 2 maths though) with public school materials (in an alternative school) in 16.5 months. My daughter shouldn't get penalized because she can get through a book in a semester (or less). Another child shouldn't get two credits because he reads slowly, needs double lectures, etc. When the work is done, it's done. The purpose is to understand the material, not take X hours per credit.

 

Additionally, regarding the OP. The situation is ridiculous. In a college situation, the work would be done in a semester. In a school that has block scheduling, the work could be done in a semester. In MANY different kinds of self-paced schools, it could be done in a semester. To say it couldn't to a homeschooler is unfair.

 

Oh, and it can't be an issue of too many credits. Top programs (or diplomas within a school) have 5-6 math and science requirements for public school kids. In those cases, there are 20-60 kids with LOTS of math and science. I'm not going to not give credit to my student just because he's a homeschooler. Seriously, a student who took two levels of each class should get credit for each one. And you really don't have a class you can take out anyway. There isn't a fluff class on the list!

 

I'd fight it. Put it how you want it and if they want clarification, give it to them. If they balk, make sound arguments. It probably won't be an issue though. I think someone was just mistaken.

Edited June 28, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[creekland]

Gotcha. There's also an AP course that covers EVERYTHING in one year, both levels. Students get one credit and the glory of the name on their transcript (ha).

 

Our ps gave up AP tests/classes a few years back - mainly due to few students taking the tests and even fewer getting a 3 or higher. However, even then (and even when I took AP's back in the 80's) we still got two credits for our efforts, one for the high school level course and one for the AP course.

 

Now in our ps (where I work, so I KNOW how they do it) they divide Bio, Chem and Physics. Average kids take just the first course and get through roughly 1/2 - 2/3rds of the material. They get a whole credit. Those wanting "Advanced" take the second course and cover areas not previously covered - not necessarily in more depth, but it's supposed to be. They get two credits. Some get 3 college credits through a local private college (their test needs to show credit worthiness, not an AP or Clep test).

 

I'm not agreeing with what they do. The lack of what I consider proper education, especially with block scheduling, is why I pulled my oldest out when he reached 9th grade to homeschool. I'm just pointing out that your thoughts about what ps does is not always accurate. Our school is pretty average for our area - and our state is average for the country. If your college offers two Carnegie Units for this in a ps it should offer the same for homeschoolers.

 

For what it's worth, my Apologia educated Chem (first book) boys have been tutoring their ps counterparts. Next year will be my first intro to Apologia's Advanced Chem. They have a new edition out this year, so we'll be buying it. I was debating going with Zumdahl's book, but it seems to have too much overlap to be worth it. I plan to have my middle son take the Chem AP IF I can find a school that offers it anywhere near here. In another year I'll know how I felt about the whole program! (He will also use a prep book for it and if he finds there isn't enough info in Apologia's book I'll buy a more traditional book, but I'm going to wait to see if it's really needed. I'll still report whatever I find so others will know.)

[Teachin'Mine]

Just thought of an analogy to the real working world - which is for what high school and college are supposed to be preparation.

 

Toyota has a safety problem. They have engineers working on finding the solution. Whoever solves the problem will be rewarded very nicely. Will the one who spends the most time finding the solution be rewarded or the one who solves it quickly? Same could apply to the BP mess. In the real world, people are not penalized for spending less time figuring things out. :)

[PeterPan]

Creekland, I'll be VERY interested to hear your take on the Apol. Adv. Chem! I've watched your posts about your boys with interest. And no, if it was one year of study, done 5 days a week with single periods, then where I worked it would have been calculated and entered into the computer as *1* unit despite the *2* credits. But that was only one place, now 10+ years ago.

 

I'm really uncertain how well the two books of Apologia together translate into AP/SAT2 prep. My guess is it will depend a lot on the types of questions on the tests, not just the table of contents of the book.

[StephanieZ]

I agree about being creative in assigning dates. I.e., Physics I (2009), Physics II (2010), Chem I (2010), Chem II (2011) or something like that. Definitely include the 9th grade physical sciece course as well. Then you have 5 science credits, in three topic areas, so there is no doubt about making the 3 credit minimum.

 

I haven't done a transcript yet, but don't some people do topic transcripts for the entire 4 years. . . I.e., a Science section of the transcript would have the 5 courses listed (with general dates/years if you feel the need, but not so much detail as to draw attention to the doubling up. . .)

[StephanieZ]

p.s. I know there are public schools which offer some traditional year-long courses in a single semester via "block scheduling" in which they have double periods of fewer courses. . . A friend's dd had to take Algebra that way! 4 months!! For a kid who struggled with math. I thought it was nuts, but it was the only way it was offerred in her school!