Need Help/Encouragement w/ kids w/ some learning difficulties

[Soror]

My son turns 6 next month. In some things he catches on wonderfully fast but others has extreme difficulty. Like he has just now been able to count to 10. He still doesn't know his ABC's. However, basic addition and subtraction he seems to understand. Science he catches on fast as well and gross motor skills are good- like riding a bike, climbing- although catching a ball and such is hard for him.

 

Anyway, we have been fairly unschooly as any attempt to push anything just led to great frustration for both of us. I just figured he wasn't ready yet.

 

We were working on writing but gave it a break for awhile. Recently we started back again w/ HWOT and he has improved 10fold. It is incredible- his grip seems to be good now and he seems to be writing his letters correctly- last we had stopped he had a very hard time with starting letters backward- writing all over the page (not seeming to understand that he was supposed to go l>r up>down).

 

So, I feel we can make progress there. However, I am paralyzed w/ fear over trying to teach him to read. As I said before even trying to teach letters was a disaster.

 

I have bought Reading Reflex but have to do the assessment. I am just dreading it- if we are not working on it then he is not failing and I am not failing. I am terrified of getting back in the pattern where I am trying to *make* him learn it.

 

Then there is the guilt that it is just my big failure. This idea from those w/ easy and early readers that if you just expose them to reading and such they will just pick it up organically. He has exposure- we have spent tons of time counting things. I spend typically 1-2 hrs a day reading aloud a great variety of books- picture - chapter books.

 

I was talking to my friend today and she has taught her just now 4 y.o. to read and was talking about this program she used and it just made me feel like the idea was that I just haven't done it right. Maybe I haven't- UGH!

 

Anyway, I have thought perhaps about dyslexia due to some things although I am not sure. He was checked by a Vision Therapist and passed everything w/ more than flying colors- so that has been ruled out.

[Shay]

My son turns 6 next month. In some things he catches on wonderfully fast but others has extreme difficulty. Like he has just now been able to count to 10. He still doesn't know his ABC's. However, basic addition and subtraction he seems to understand. Science he catches on fast as well and gross motor skills are good- like riding a bike, climbing- although catching a ball and such is hard for him.

 

Anyway, we have been fairly unschooly as any attempt to push anything just led to great frustration for both of us. I just figured he wasn't ready yet.

 

We were working on writing but gave it a break for awhile. Recently we started back again w/ HWOT and he has improved 10fold. It is incredible- his grip seems to be good now and he seems to be writing his letters correctly- last we had stopped he had a very hard time with starting letters backward- writing all over the page (not seeming to understand that he was supposed to go l>r up>down).

 

So, I feel we can make progress there. However, I am paralyzed w/ fear over trying to teach him to read. As I said before even trying to teach letters was a disaster.

 

I have bought Reading Reflex but have to do the assessment. I am just dreading it- if we are not working on it then he is not failing and I am not failing. I am terrified of getting back in the pattern where I am trying to *make* him learn it.

 

Then there is the guilt that it is just my big failure. This idea from those w/ easy and early readers that if you just expose them to reading and such they will just pick it up organically. He has exposure- we have spent tons of time counting things. I spend typically 1-2 hrs a day reading aloud a great variety of books- picture - chapter books.

 

I was talking to my friend today and she has taught her just now 4 y.o. to read and was talking about this program she used and it just made me feel like the idea was that I just haven't done it right. Maybe I haven't- UGH!

 

Anyway, I have thought perhaps about dyslexia due to some things although I am not sure. He was checked by a Vision Therapist and passed everything w/ more than flying colors- so that has been ruled out.

 

 

I think you are a wonderful mother and it is obvious that you are feeling low about all of this , so first you need a :grouphug:. Your ds is a lucky boy. I'm jealous of your read-aloud stamina! My ds would trade me for you on that alone. :tongue_smilie:

 

This is my opinion, of course, but your friend's dd probably would have learned with whatever she picked for her. She's had it easy, really. You may have to be more aggressive and intentional.

 

If you are dreading the Reading Reflex assessment, then just don't do it. I did that assessment with my ds before we began using it and he did not do too well. I think with a 6yo, you are fine to skip that. There are those who say that phonemic awareness improves with learning to read an alphabetic system. I know it did with my ds.

 

I used RReflex (basic code) followed by the I See Sam readers for my ds and it was a great way to go. You say that your ds does not know his ABCs yet? Knowing them is NOT a necessary prerequisite to beginning reading. What you want is to teach them a little at at time. The Sam readers do this. They also separate out in the instruction easily confused letters (b/d/p) that look alike *and* also those that sound alike.

 

I tutor kindergartners who have been retained for kindy. Usually the problems stem from being introduced to too much too fast in regards to letters and sounds. Some of them are so massively confused. I would have rather caught them early on and just taught one letter/sound at a time.

 

And, good for you for utilizing HWOT. The (second-time) kindergarteners I see have been left to their own devices in regards to how to form letters.

 

Hopefully you'll get some good advice here, but I did want offer some encouragement.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Shay
spelling

[JennW in SoCal]

We all hear about those early readers, but the reality is not every kid can and should be reading by 6. My boys weren't reading well until they were somewhere between 7 and 8. So it is hard to say whether an almost 6 year old is struggling because of a disability or if he is just not ready yet. If you feel down in your gut that there is something not quite right with him, that you've felt this since he was a baby, then talk to your pediatrician about a referral to get him started on testing. But on the surface, from what you have described, there are no glaring red flags.

 

The main thing you need to do -- and trust me, it is impossible but I'm going to say it anyway -- is to give yourself a break. Your son is who he is, and reading just isn't what he is doing now. Counting just isn't what he is doing now. It isn't your fault. Your son is still very VERY young, and you've got time to let him mature and learn at his own pace. You may eventually want to get him tested, but unless you have that gut feeling, I'd relax for now. Easier said than done, and ironic for a chronic worrier to be giving this advice, but there it is!

 

The reading aloud you do is wonderful and really the most important thing you can be doing right now. You will never regret the time spent on it and will look back on those hours with fondness. I read aloud until my boys were teens and now we often listen to audio books together. Play with magnetic letters, sound things out for him when he is writing. Write things he says in the sand or with chalk -- label things he creates or things he likes to play with. Does he enjoy computer games? Is there still Reader Rabbit? My youngest loved Between The Lions on PBS when he was 5-6 -- is that still even on??

 

Keep playing with numbers, too. Play cards, play UNO, play Sorry. Get the book Family Math and play some of those games. In other words, keep your home unschooly and happy and give yourself a break from worry.

 

Hang in there! You really are doing a terrific job. Don't burn yourself out with worry now -- you're just starting out with years of worry yet to come!!

[Soror]

First I heartily appreciate all the encouragement. Sincerely it means a lot. One minute I feel ok with it and the next not. The thing is there is such disparate thoughts out there that it is hard to navigate. Is it really ok that my son couldn't figure out how to count to 10 until 5.5? Is that really normal? Really, I don't know doesn't seem so, but what do I know.

 

From what I can figure that is not a good or easy way to even test him for dyslexia now. Especially as I live in the middle of nowhere.

 

I just did the RR assessment:

 

On blending part 1 he missed every single one.

 

pig- he heard pond

bug- bum

hat-hapa

pin-book

rat-run

bird- beer

shell-shovel

five-fumfi

boat-bumble

 

frog- freckle

grass-??

stick-kenside

print-nonetons

crunch-?

plant?

 

Phoneme- 15 right (36 or less is poor)

dog- d-k

hat- ha t

pin- pa t

rat- r a t

nut- n u t

frog- fr a k

black- b la k

nest- ne t s

trip- tri p

milk- m il k

drum- dru m

 

So, anybody knows what this means? He hears g as k it seems.

 

Shay- I am interested in the "I see Sam" books as I have heard a lot about them- I was curious how they would work together w/ RR- so they should be used afterwards?

 

I appreciate any and all thoughts on this. I really generally am not the worrying type, but then I have this nagging since that all of this is my "fault" for my laidbackness.

 

I also wonder if it isn't about him being ready but about him needing to have info presented a different way and I dont' want to miss that.

[LizzyBee]

First, the normal parameters for learning to read are ages 4 - 8. So there's no need to panic or feel like you've done it wrong. :grouphug:

 

Second, go to the signs and symptoms section of this website and see if your son has a lot of the symptoms of dyslexia. http://www.dys-add.com

 

Third, dyslexia is usually caused by auditory processing difficulties, not visual. It sounds like his phonemic awareness is still weak, therefore, he is not ready to read yet. He may just be a later (not late, just later than some kids) reader, or he may be dyslexic and need to be explicitly taught phonemic awareness.

 

You can check his phonemic awareness with this free screening tool: http://www.bartonreading.com/students_long.html

 

Can he rhyme? If not, read nursery rhymes and poetry every day.

 

You can download this sample chapter from Literacy Leaders to begin working on other types of phonemic awareness skills. Just work 5-10 minutes per day to avoid frustration. http://intervention.schoolspecialty.com/downloads/samples/2699M/ll-concept_1.pdf If it helps, you can buy the book here: http://intervention.schoolspecialty.com/products/details.cfm?seriesonly=2699M

 

If 2 or 3 months go by and he can't pass part c of the student screening here http://www.bartonreading.com/students_long.html, you might need heavy duty help with phonemic awareness. http://www.linguisystems.com/itemdetail.php?id=10094

 

Finally, my dyslexic dd had a very hard time learning to blend, and Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons finally worked for her. This book also includes a lot of phonemic awareness work, and it only costs about $15 on Amazon. We've also used LiPS (at the linguisystems link above) and we're now using Barton Reading and Spelling for her. If it turns out that your son is dyslexic, don't get discouraged. There is a lot of help and good curriculum out there.

 

One thing I've learned about dyslexia is that these kids will eventually do everything that other kids do, but they will do it in a different timeframe. I have no regrets about not pushing my dyslexic dd to read and do math sooner. They do need material to be presented differently, and we have to be diligent to teach them appropriately. But it's also important to accept that even highly gifted dyslexic students will tend to lag a year or two behind neurotypical kids.

Edited June 24, 2010 by LizzyBee

[Soror]

I have went over the list for the dyslexia symptoms soooo many times. One minute I am convinced that is it and the next I don't know. I am so happy to have some specific directions. I had his vision tested as I had read that it was often a problem and a good thing to rule out. So, anyway at least I know that isn't it.

 

 

I will definitely check out the Literacy Leaders and see how we do with that- .I have tried to do the Barton screening but I cannot get the tutor instructions to work on my computer. I will see if dh can figure it out.

preschool/k warning list:

delayed speech (not speaking any words by the child's first birthday. Often, they don't start talking until they are two, two-and-a-half, three, or even older.)

 

He was always on the lowest end of the normal range-

 

mixing up sounds in multi-syllabic words (ex: aminal for animal, bisghetti for spaghetti, hekalopter for helicopter, hangaberg for hamburger, mazageen for magazine, etc.)

 

Some but not always- he cannot say animal- he says aminal- spaghetti comes out saghetti- the rest he says fine.

early stuttering or cluttering

Fine on this.

lots of ear infections

none

can't master tying shoes

We hadn't worked on this much but just tried this lately. He almost has this down now.

confusion over left versus right, over versus under, before versus after, and other directionality words and concepts

 

Horrible, horrible trouble with this. He has gotten to where he can seem to figure it out for his shoes, very recently but it is still not always. He doesn't understand before and after- first and last at all.

 

 

late to establish a dominant hand. May switch from right hand to left hand while coloring, writing, or doing any other task. Eventually, the child will usually establish a preferred hand, but it may not be until they are 7 or 8. Even then, they may use one hand for writing, but the other hand for sports.

He has pretty much always used his left for most things, but not always. He switches for different things.

inability to correctly complete phonemic awareness task

Couldn't do this at all. Well he could come up w/ a few rhyming words but the rest he couldn't do it at all.

 

despite listening to stories that contain lots of rhyming words, such as Dr. Seuss, cannot tell you words that rhyme with cat or seat by the age of four-and-a-half

He just started rhyming at 5.5 years old.

 

 

difficulty learning the names of the letters or sounds in the alphabet; difficulty writing the alphabet in order

As I said he couldn't even tell you the alphabet let alone in order or write it in order. He knows a handful of letters he could write. He can now write his name and does so correctly pretty much all the time- this is fairly recent though.

 

Trouble correctly articulating R's and L's as well as M's and N's. They often have "immature" speech. They may still be saying "wed and gween" instead of "red and green" in second or third grade.

 

Seems to be ok with this currently.

Edited June 24, 2010 by soror
Trying to fix formatting

[LizzyBee]

Sounds like he does need some work on phonemic awareness. Poetry and Literacy Leaders are both good starting points.

 

Some of the Dr. Seuss books are great for concepts. Go Dog Go is a particularly good one. My dd said, "I'll do it yesterday" foreverrrrrrrr! Just keep explaining and correctly, and those concepts will eventually start sticking. You can also probably find something from Linguisystems if you want something formal to work from.

 

I put the alphabet on the wall and let my dd look at it as much as she needed to. I'm pretty sure she was 8 before she could put alphabet tiles in order without looking at the wall.

 

For writing, you might try focusing on a couple letters at a time. Just have him write a line of A's every day for a few days, then add B, etc. Also, you can make a salt box to add texture to the writing experience, which helps create more neural pathways. Use a gift box and glue a piece of black construction paper to the bottom, then add enough salt to just barely cover the bottom of the box. When your son writes letters in the salt, the black paper creates a good contrast to help him remember the shape.

 

Reversing sounds is a motor planning issue, but it sounds like your son doesn't do it with many words. I think it took us 2-3 years to teach dd to say hospital instead of hostipal. It sure was cute hearing it backwards though.

[Soror]

I just tested him on hospital- he says it hosipul or hostipal. He does the reversing on some words but I haven't figured out a pattern to it. Some big words he seems to say just fine , like helicopter.

 

So, linguisystems has something to work on the directionality concepts? Just doing these exercises is a challenge as he doesn't understand first or last I have to explain it over and over what it means.

 

From my brief reading I am now confused on the letters and what to introduce. What I have read says don't confuse them with telling them the letter name, right? But then what do I call it? I need to read again- cause when we work on writing I don't know what to say. I don't want to add confusion. I do have all the manipulatives w/ the HWOT and they seem to really be helping now that I have them.

[LizzyBee]

I just tested him on hospital- he says it hosipul or hostipal. He does the reversing on some words but I haven't figured out a pattern to it. Some big words he seems to say just fine , like helicopter.

 

So, linguisystems has something to work on the directionality concepts? Just doing these exercises is a challenge as he doesn't understand first or last I have to explain it over and over what it means.

 

From my brief reading I am now confused on the letters and what to introduce. What I have read says don't confuse them with telling them the letter name, right? But then what do I call it? I need to read again- cause when we work on writing I don't know what to say. I don't want to add confusion. I do have all the manipulatives w/ the HWOT and they seem to really be helping now that I have them.

 

Here are the products that come up for teaching basic concepts. http://www.linguisystems.com/searchResults.php?type=topic&topic=25&format=&age=&price=&order=

 

I have always taught my kids letter names from the beginning. Some people start by teaching the most common sound related to the letter rather than the letter name.

 

I would consider asking around to find a really good SLP who is very experienced and aggressive, and have an updated evaluation that emphasizes language rather than speech. Be sure to mention that he sometimes reverses sounds in words, struggles with basic concepts related to time and direction, and seems to have some phonemic awareness weaknesses. My dd will be 9 next month and still works with an SLP on language and auditory processing concepts.

[Soror]

Excuse my ignorance and many thank yous for your thoughts- however.... What should I be looking to the SLP to do for him? What could/would they diagnose or prescribe to help him? And SLP means speech language pathologist, right?

[LizzyBee]

Excuse my ignorance and many thank yous for your thoughts- however.... What should I be looking to the SLP to do for him? What could/would they diagnose or prescribe to help him? And SLP means speech language pathologist, right?

 

Yes, SLP = speech language pathologist

 

We work with dd at home, but because of her SLP's experience, she sometimes can pinpoint a problem and work on fixing it more efficiently than I can. She also knows how to make games out of therapy, and I've gotten lots of good ideas from her. I don't sit in on every therapy session; in fact, dh usually takes dd to therapy. But I do sit in sometimes and it's been very helpful. My dd's SLP works on articulation, concepts, organizing and expressing her thoughts, auditory processing, and more. She also administers the Therapeutic Listening Program and does Interactive Metronome with DD, both of which were started by dd's occupational therapist, but she isn't doing OT for now.

 

The things that stand out to me that an SLP could help your son with are auditory processing (phonemic awareness is an auditory processing skill) and concepts.

 

One more thing came to mind. If your son hasn't had a complete hearing evaluation by an audiologist, you might consider having that done to make sure he doesn't have mild hearing loss - which can cause the phonemic awareness weakness.

 

ETA: I was thinking your son is 6, but I just noticed that he won't turn 6 until next month. I think audiology and SLP evaluations are appropriate, but I just want to reiterate that he is young and there is no reason to panic yet. I think we expect a lot of our very young children these days, but more boys probably begin reading after the age of 5 than at 4 or 5 yo.

Edited June 24, 2010 by LizzyBee

[Ottakee]

http://www.teacherweb.com/CA/PomeloDriveElementary/Mrssakamoto/printap2.stm Here is a link for the I See Sam books that you can print out.

 

http://www.3rsplus.com and http://www.iseesam.com though have the directions on how to use the books, etc. There is also a yahoo group for using these books that is a WEALTH of information. Shay posts there frequently.

 

I would use ONLY these books for now, nothing else. They start out with the child only needing to know 5 sounds which they blend into 3 words. From there, they VERY slowly add words and sounds with LOTS of practice. The websites have ideas on how to work on spelling and phonemic awareness, etc. using the sounds taught in these books.

 

A speech and language eval as well as a full hearing test might be helpful to make sure that there are no slight issues causing his struggles.

[Shay]

I used the basic code section of RReflex for my son. He was still laboriously sounding out words (and this was even after a full kdg. phonics program). I knew it would be not productive to forge ahead to the advanced code. But, what to do? Ottakee posts frequently here about the success she had with I See Sam and I was really not interested....until I took a look at them. I knew my son would LOVE reading animal stories. I never knew how they were designed structurally at the beginning, but as I worked through it many lightbulbs went on for me.

 

My ds struggled with blending, and not letter/sound recognition. So, there may be a difference there. But, I began tutoring kindergarteners with these books and have only had one student not make wonderful progress. Some of them knew very few letter sounds (after being in K a full year). These books drip, drip, drip the code slowly in~ all the while your child is getting blending practice. I took a graduate level course in direct instruction reading and this series was listed in the text as a recommended program for tutoring.

 

About the Barton screening. I have very mixed feelings on this for young children like your son. Last year I tutored an older kdg. boy (6). He struggled big-time in the class and, initially, with me. I got worried and gave him the Barton screening thinking he was not hearing the sounds correctly. He did not do well on the test. So, I asked the kdg. teacher for another student, the best reader in the class, to do the test on also. She also did not do well~but she clearly could read. I think those tests are hard on little ones. The best part of this story is that finally, after about book 16 of Sam, this little boy started to "get it." His teacher noticed it, his parents noticed it, and I rarely had to have him go back and re-read (which I had to do previously).

 

All this to say that I'm in the camp that phonemic awareness develops alongside learning to read an alphabetic writing system. I would not want to hold one back from beginning reading. I'm sure many others disagree with me, but this has been my experience with my son and many kindergarteners.

 

BTW, many of the kdg. dc who are sent to me cannot rhyme and this worries the teachers. They learn to read despite it.

 

Feel free to PM me whenever you need encouragement, as I'd love to offer encouragement/help anytime you need it.

[Soror]

Thanks to everyone for the thoughts, it really lifts my spirits. I was just talking to dh last night about this and how it is hard when everyone else's kids are leaps and bounds ahead. I know that is terrible to compare and I try not to- but it is hurtful. Dh has a co-worker who is constantly bragging about his kid doing this and that- evidently his kid is advanced and he likes to rub it in to dh. We have a niece on the advanced side as well and it doesn't matter what he does there is always something she is doing better that we have to hear about.

 

Anyway, that is my silly emotional rant about it all. Breathing deeply . He is who he is and is great and wonderful kid in his own ways.

 

The frustrating part about this to me is trying to decipher is it just that he is not ready or if there is some other issue I am missing, it is maddening. I will check into the hearing and SLP eval- I know I have a friend that did speech therapy so perhaps she has info on that. With both of those I am looking to rule out APD? Is that correct? Also, making sure of course that his hearing is normal? I was thinking we did a hearing test at a childhood screening a few yrs ago and he did fine- although I know w/ the APD it is not a matter of not hearing.

 

So, I did a few RR games with him last night and he actually did decently on one game- I forget what it is called but you make a sound and they guess what animal it is- then he wanted to do food and names as well. The one where I try to sound out the individual letters he cannot get at all. The next game in the sequence is him finding the sound pictures for a word like cat. I cannot fathom that he would have any ability to do that. I cringe of the idea of even trying it as I said he doesn't know letters and certainly doesn't associate letters with particular sounds.

 

I am going to try and print out the "I See Sam" readers as well and give that a shot. I have really been drawn to those so I think it might be a good thing to try.

 

We tried to get the Barton screening to work for a while yesterday and it is just not happening on this computer- however I think I will just drop that for now.

 

I feel much uplifted now and feel I have a plan.

 

I just don't want to miss anything for him but I also don't want to push him before he is ready if that is the case---

 

I have to say as well that this is hard for me as well as it is a whole new language. I never was a fan of english/grammar- I did it and well enough but it wasn't fun and easy like math and science for me. Now, that I am well out of the practice of writing papers from College I have forgot more than I can remember- perhaps I will be learning along with him and more of it will actually stick this time!

Edited June 25, 2010 by soror

[Renee in NC]

 

All this to say that I'm in the camp that phonemic awareness develops alongside learning to read an alphabetic writing system. I would not want to hold one back from beginning reading. I'm sure many others disagree with me, but this has been my experience with my son and many kindergarteners.

 

BTW, many of the kdg. dc who are sent to me cannot rhyme and this worries the teachers. They learn to read despite it.

 

 

 

It is true that many dc learn to read without the phonemic awareness. Rhyming is definitely not the be-all end-all. In the OP's case, I would definitely wait a little while - her ds is only 5. However, there comes a point in time where you *do* need to worry about these things.

 

If it were as simple as developing phonemic awareness as they are taught phonics, my 7yo and 9yo boys would be able to read.

[cathmom]

Your responses to the dyslexia symptoms list look a lot like my dd at that age. She has pretty severe dyslexia, compensated by some unexpected strengths (great ability to retain what she hears and a huge sight word vocabulary from reading so much). But she never had any trouble with speech, and was in fact speaking in full sentences at 2.

 

It took a long time for her to learn how to blend. We used Saxon Phonics, which I really like. It has a lot of phonemic awareness activities, it has tons of practice, it doesn't expect the child to master anything before moving on, and it's not boring or repetitive. And it was very easy for me to teach. The only drawback is that it is expensive, but you could look for it used. My dd was reading at age 7.

[Soror]

Your responses to the dyslexia symptoms list look a lot like my dd at that age. She has pretty severe dyslexia, compensated by some unexpected strengths (great ability to retain what she hears and a huge sight word vocabulary from reading so much). But she never had any trouble with speech, and was in fact speaking in full sentences at 2.

 

 

Luke has great memory for some things. Like narrating books back to me after I have read them only 1x. He has great ability in figuring out exactly what is going on in a book just from the picture, not just from picture books but chapter books w/ just a few pics. Which of course it all the more puzzling when he cannot remember to count to 10 when we have went over it hundreds of times. Another paranoia about dyslexia is that we have family history my first cousin is pretty severely dyslexic. Plus, I have done other screenings different places and he always seems to score pretty high. Weird things that I never heard of being related like an extreme pain tolerance and such

 

And this is why there is the confusion one post comparing my son to a pretty severe dyslexic child(which I have heard before) and then someone else saying not to worry he is still young.

 

I have talked to dh and thought and thought some more. I think at this point I would like to find an audiologist to do a screening. If he was entering school it would be standard to have him tested anyway and then also looking for one familiar w/ APD to rule that and hearing issues out. From my understanding the audiologist familiar w/ APD is the only one who can make the official diagnosis(correct me if I am wrong- I am playing Google scholar here!).

 

I plan to continue w/ RR and I See Sam at this point and see how that goes- If we hid a huge roadblock here then we will reevaluate and try and decide again if there is (1) an issue were missing (2) a different approach we need to take or (3) if he just needs more time.

 

I know it perhaps doesn't sound like it but I am really a pretty laid back person- I just have this feeling that something more is going on- perhaps that is just my inexperience but perhaps not.

 

I really and sincerely appreciate all the perspectives and I know that no one on-line from a few posts can know exactly what the issue is- readiness or potential problem. However, each avenue suggested gives me more ideas and thoughts and pursue. Hearing that we are in the range and not to freak out helps as stressing won't help regardless.

Edited June 25, 2010 by soror

[LizzyBee]

Luke has great memory for some things. Like narrating books back to me after I have read them only 1x. He has great ability in figuring out exactly what is going on in a book just from the picture, not just from picture books but chapter books w/ just a few pics. Which of course it all the more puzzling when he cannot remember to count to 10 when we have went over it hundreds of times. Another paranoia about dyslexia is that we have family history my first cousin is pretty severely dyslexic. Plus, I have done other screenings different places and he always seems to score pretty high. Weird things that I never heard of being related like an extreme pain tolerance and such

 

And this is why there is the confusion one post comparing my son to a pretty severe dyslexic child(which I have heard before) and then someone else saying not to worry he is still young.

 

I have talked to dh and thought and thought some more. I think at this point I would like to find an audiologist to do a screening. If he was entering school it would be standard to have him tested anyway and then also looking for one familiar w/ APD to rule that and hearing issues out. From my understanding the audiologist familiar w/ APD is the only one who can make the official diagnosis(correct me if I am wrong- I am playing Google scholar here!).

 

I plan to continue w/ RR and I See Sam at this point and see how that goes- If we hid a huge roadblock here then we will reevaluate and try and decide again if there is (1) an issue were missing (2) a different approach we need to take or (3) if he just needs more time.

 

I know it perhaps doesn't sound like it but I am really a pretty laid back person- I just have this feeling that something more is going on- perhaps that is just my inexperience but perhaps not.

 

I really and sincerely appreciate all the perspectives and I know that no one on-line from a few posts can know exactly what the issue is- readiness or potential problem. However, each avenue suggested gives me more ideas and thoughts and pursue. Hearing that we are in the range and not to freak out helps as stressing won't help regardless.

 

With a family history of dyslexia + your gut feeling that there is something more going on, I would probably just go on the assumption that he is dyslexic. You can revise that assumption later if it proves incorrect. I was pretty sure my youngest was dyslexic by the time she was 4. I didn't have her tested until she was 7, but I did start educating myself about dyslexia so that I could be prepared to teach her appropriately.

 

My dyslexic dd has a fantastic memory for certain things, but yet she is diagnosed with working memory deficit. Inconsistency seems to be part and parcel of having learning disabilities.

 

For math, you might want to take a look at Number Neighbors from http://www.mugginsmath.com and On Cloud Nine from the Lindamood-Bell people. http://www.ganderpublishing.com/What-Is-On-Cloud-Nine.html These programs make math visual and kinesthetic, using multiple pathways to get the information to the brain. You can also use things like beans with egg cartons (use 1 hole for 1, the next for 2, the next for 3, etc.) and popsicle sticks as a base ten set (rubber band 10 sticks together, then 10 10's to make 100, etc.)

 

I think the extreme pain tolerance is related to sensory processing disorder rather than dyslexia, but they are often co-morbid. My dd with mild dyslexia and the one with severe dyslexia both have SPD.

 

People who don't work with my dd every day don't realize she has learning disabilities. She is smart and friendly, which masks her LDs. Her SLP even told me that if she goes to school, she will fall through the cracks because even her teachers will not realize how severe her LDs are. So when someone tells you your son is young and not to worry, you have to trust your gut feeling that is telling you something isn't quite right.

 

Some audiologists won't evaluate for APD until age 7. If that's the case, go ahead and get a complete evaluation of his hearing (not just a screening). If you rule out hearing loss, you can always go back later for the APD testing. The audiologists who test for APD have specialized training for that, so you'll have to check for that on their websites or by calling their offices. Some teaching hospitals, such as Duke, have an APD clinic.

 

If you're interested in some book recommendations, my favorites are:

The Mislabled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide

The Everything Parents Guide to Dyslexia by Abigail Marshall

Upside Down Brilliance by Linda Kreger Silverman

The Secret Life of the Dyslexic Child by Robert Frank and Kathryn Livingston

[Renee in NC]

Luke has great memory for some things. Like narrating books back to me after I have read them only 1x. He has great ability in figuring out exactly what is going on in a book just from the picture, not just from picture books but chapter books w/ just a few pics. Which of course it all the more puzzling when he cannot remember to count to 10 when we have went over it hundreds of times. Another paranoia about dyslexia is that we have family history my first cousin is pretty severely dyslexic. Plus, I have done other screenings different places and he always seems to score pretty high. Weird things that I never heard of being related like an extreme pain tolerance and such

 

And this is why there is the confusion one post comparing my son to a pretty severe dyslexic child(which I have heard before) and then someone else saying not to worry he is still young.

 

 

Your ds sounds somewhat like mine. In answering before, I said I wouldn't worry necessarily about not being able to rhyme at 5. I did, however, miss where you said he can't count to 10. This is a biggie, because dyslexic children have a hard time memorizing things that are abstract - numbers, months, days of the week, etc. My 9yo ds did not learn to count to 10 consistently until he was almost 9. Now he can mostly count to just about any number under one thousand. He misses numbers at times - sequencing is still very, very difficult for him.

 

I would do the OT and ST evaluations, definitely.

[Soror]

With a family history of dyslexia + your gut feeling that there is something more going on, I would probably just go on the assumption that he is dyslexic. You can revise that assumption later if it proves incorrect. I was pretty sure my youngest was dyslexic by the time she was 4. I didn't have her tested until she was 7, but I did start educating myself about dyslexia so that I could be prepared to teach her appropriately.

That is kind have been my thinking for the last few months- keeping an eye out for programs that are supposed to work for kids who have some trouble- that is why we have RR.

 

For math, you might want to take a look at Number Neighbors from www.mugginsmath.com and On Cloud Nine from the Lindamood-Bell people. http://www.ganderpublishing.com/What-Is-On-Cloud-Nine.html

 

I have Right Start Math ordered since it seemed to be one of the most manipulative based programs and seems to get great reviews. We have done a lot of living math- a lot of games- he really hasn't had anything formal until this point but HiHo Cherry- UNO- dice games etc.

 

I think the extreme pain tolerance is related to sensory processing diso

People who don't work with my dd every day don't realize she has learning disabilities. She is smart and friendly, which masks her LDs. Her SLP even told me that if she goes to school, she will fall through the cracks because even her teachers will not realize how severe her LDs are. So when someone tells you your son is young and not to worry, you have to trust your gut feeling that is telling you something isn't quite right.

 

Ok, I am vaguely familiar w/ the SPD which I have checked out at various points but it hasn't jumped out at me as a huge concern. My son is totally Mr. Personality he feeds on people- would love it if we were going all the time. One thing I never have to worry about is people saying my hs kids are anti-social!

 

Some audiologists won't evaluate for APD until age 7. If that's the case, go ahead and get a complete evaluation of his hearing (not just a screening). If you rule out hearing loss, you can always go back later for the APD testing. The audiologists who test for APD have specialized training for that, so you'll have to check for that on their websites or by calling their offices. Some teaching hospitals, such as Duke, have an APD clinic.

 

Thanks for the heads up about that- St Louis is a few hrs away and we visit sometimes so I am hoping surely I can find someone up there if nothing else that can help.

 

If you're interested in some book recommendations, my favorites are:

The Mislabled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide

The Everything Parents Guide to Dyslexia by Abigail Marshall

Upside Down Brilliance by Linda Kreger Silverman

The Secret Life of the Dyslexic Child by Robert Frank and Kathryn Livingston

thanks for the rec's I just ordered "The Mislabled Child" hopefully it has something helpful for me.

 

Your ds sounds somewhat like mine. In answering before, I said I wouldn't worry necessarily about not being able to rhyme at 5. I did, however, miss where you said he can't count to 10. This is a biggie, because dyslexic children have a hard time memorizing things that are abstract - numbers, months, days of the week, etc. My 9yo ds did not learn to count to 10 consistently until he was almost 9. Now he can mostly count to just about any number under one thousand. He misses numbers at times - sequencing is still very, very difficult for him.

 

I would do the OT and ST evaluations, definitely.

Ds almost 6 just started counting to 10 but even now he has trouble skipping numbers. It seemed for a short while that he got them all but then he started getting to 8 and then being hung up again. He can usually figure it out if he stops to think, but if I ask him to do it- he leaves out 8 or puts it in the wrong order- I am just thrilled that he can recall all the numbers and with thought can figure it out- I would think very much that it was just me but my 3yo has been able to count to 13 for at least 6 months if not longer.

I don't understand all the coexisting issues- as to what comes first if anything and how it all works. What is primary if it even works like that. I know my thoughts are scattered. It is just hard to digest everything. I really seriously looked into this a few months ago- did the vision screening which turned up nothing and then the Opt. poopooed the idea of dyslexia going on about how letter reversals are common until 8 and acting like I was an idiot for bringing it up. I didn't even pursue it further with her- as I told dh there is so much more to it than that. That is just the myth.

 

Anyway, I guess I have been frozen a bit since then deciding what next. Life would be easier if it was just in my head but I cannot let go of the thought that it isn't.

 

I did prepare dh last night that there is a possibility that if it is dyslexia that we could be shelling out some major cash to help him. He is prepared though to be supportive of whatever. I told him however for now we are going to try this current approach and see what happens. He is still young enough I feel ok feeling this out without going whole hog to the fancy programs just yet.

[Soror]

Oh, Lizzybee I just checked out the Muggins Math and the On Cloud Nine- I had just told dh I was finally done buying hs things sigh.... Just bought the I See Sam readers and those games at Muggins look too cool- would that integrate well with something like Right Start do you know? I have ordered it already but it won't be in for a month or so.