What is the difference between Spielvogel's

[mo2]

Western Civilization and Human Odyssey?

[April in CA]

Good Morning!

I believe that Human Odyssey is a high school text, while Western Civ is college level.

Blessings,

April

[Lori D.]

Human Odyssey

- high school text

- focused on all world history (includes a generous amount of text to non-Western cultures)

- includes as sidebars excerpts from source documents and writers of the time studied

- teacher edition also available

- 1 volume

- within-the-chapter quiz questions on key concepts every 4-6 pages; 2 pages at end of each chapter of comprehension questions, discussion questions, writing/research ideas

 

 

Western Civ

- college text

- focused on Western civilizations (non-Western civilizations only very briefly mentioned)

- includes as sidebars excerpts from source documents and writers of the time studied

- has a companion website for the 6th edition

- choice of 1 comprehensive volume, or a 2-volume edition

- a past WTM thread mentioned that after the 5th edition it becomes very "politically correct" in tone

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

He also has a colledge level World History book out with Duiker.

[LatinTea]

I have both of these. My question is, which one to use?

 

I looked in the index in WC and there were only 3 references to India and China. Three. And they were very brief sentences. I like that WC is fuller and richer for all the main WC topics...Greece, Rome, etc., but wish they had at least something in there about these other areas, but of course, those areas are NOT WC. :001_smile: I have the study guides to go with this too; can't see doing it without those. Wonderful test material and essay questions.

 

For me, Human Odyssey has TOO much on those other cultures, but I do have the teacher's edition and really like how it has all the answers. It's just so heavy! I'm thinking of having it cut in two. Wonder how much that would cost? :confused:

 

Good luck deciding.

[Lori D.]

I have both of these. My question is, which one to use? ... For me, Human Odyssey has TOO much on those other cultures...

 

 

We went with Human Odyssey because we really *wanted* all that exposure to non-western civilizations -- afterall, non-western cultures make up 4/5 of the world's population! And living in an "ever-shrinking world", and all the business and technical connections around the globe, it seemed to make the most sense to me to have our DSs learn as much about ALL of the world as possible.

 

However, we do NOT use all of Human Odyssey in one year, but adapting it and doing most of it (won't be able to quite do it all) over three years:

gr. 9 = ancient world history = first 200 pages

gr. 10 = 20th century world history = last 400-450 pages

gr. 11 = Notgrass American History

gr. 12 will be = Medieval to Enlightenment world history = 400-450 pages that we haven't covered yet

 

That way we can also enjoy other resources, historical fiction, documentaries, etc., along with Human Odyssey and not feel overwhelmed. Just our experience!

 

 

 

I have both of these. My question is, which one to use? ...I like that WC is fuller and richer for all the main topics... but wish they had at least something in there about these other areas... I have the study guides to go with this too; can't see doing it without those. Wonderful test material and essay questions... Human Odyssey... I do have the teacher's edition and really like how it has all the answers...

 

 

Why not use BOTH? :) Do Western Civ. as your spine, and every so often shift to Human Odyssey as a supplement for as much or as little of non-Western civilizations as you'd like to add? It's pretty easy to stop even in the midst of a chapter, at the end of a section, as each section ends with a sense of "completeness".

 

BEST of luck finding what works for your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[LatinTea]

Thanks for the suggestion, Lori D. Use both books, hmmmm. I do like WC's clean text without all the teacher stuff. And I do see that it is good to get at least some of Eastern civ, so maybe a balanced approach would work for us. I know I lean toward the WC text, but my dd likes the other one better. She tells me that she wants to 'just learn all the history she can'. :)

 

3 years to go through the book. I was looking at 2 years here, adding in lit along the way. We've always used Sonlight so we are used to lots of books. But Sonlight is not working for us in high school so here I am, looking to change things up. Change is good! :D

Edited June 23, 2010 by LatinTea

[SS in MD]

I have both of these. My question is, which one to use?

 

I looked in the index in WC and there were only 3 references to India and China. Three. And they were very brief sentences. I like that WC is fuller and richer for all the main WC topics...Greece, Rome, etc., but wish they had at least something in there about these other areas, but of course, those areas are NOT WC. :001_smile: I have the study guides to go with this too; can't see doing it without those. Wonderful test material and essay questions.

 

For me, Human Odyssey has TOO much on those other cultures, but I do have the teacher's edition and really like how it has all the answers. It's just so heavy! I'm thinking of having it cut in two. Wonder how much that would cost? :confused:

 

Good luck deciding.

 

Margo,

I'm also trying to decide between Human Odyssey or Western Civ. I was wondering if you could share the ISBN numbers for both books and the ISBN for the teacher guides & study guides? I'm been trying to find these, but it's hard without the ISBNs! Are these easy to find used?

 

Thanks!

Sangita

dd(14),dd(12),dd(9),ds(6)

 

P.S I'm also considering using Western Heritage - by Kagan. I've heard its a very good text as well... decisions... decisions...

[SS in MD]

We went with Human Odyssey because we really *wanted* all that exposure to non-western civilizations -- afterall, non-western cultures make up 4/5 of the world's population! And living in an "ever-shrinking world", and all the business and technical connections around the globe, it seemed to make the most sense to me to have our DSs learn as much about ALL of the world as possible.

 

However, we do NOT use all of Human Odyssey in one year, but adapting it and doing most of it (won't be able to quite do it all) over three years:

gr. 9 = ancient world history = first 200 pages

gr. 10 = 20th century world history = last 400-450 pages

gr. 11 = Notgrass American History

gr. 12 will be = Medieval to Enlightenment world history = 400-450 pages that we haven't covered yet

 

That way we can also enjoy other resources, historical fiction, documentaries, etc., along with Human Odyssey and not feel overwhelmed. Just our experience!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why not use BOTH? :) Do Western Civ. as your spine, and every so often shift to Human Odyssey as a supplement for as much or as little of non-Western civilizations as you'd like to add? It's pretty easy to stop even in the midst of a chapter, at the end of a section, as each section ends with a sense of "completeness".

 

BEST of luck finding what works for your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Hi Lori,

We will be studying 1600-1850 next school year. I'm trying to decide on a spine text (either HO, WC or perhaps Western Heritage). But, what literature curriculum did your dc use for this time period? (I guess some of this time period you will be doing in 12th) I hope this makes sense...! I'd like to use Great Books, but was wondering if these was something out there (pre-pkged) that's comparable?

 

Thanks!

Sangita

[TravelingChris]

I decided to use Western CIv for world history and I added in DK's History- The Definitive Visual Guide for the non western part. Since both kids have covered nonwestern history a few times (SOTW, other material), I think it is enough.

[FaithManor]

Human Odyssey is a high school text. We used it for DD and she did just fine but it was dry. Additionally, he is rather pro-socialism, pro-communism when it comes to modern history. DD felt that his treatment of the atrocities under Chairman Mao and Fidel Castro was rather "light" amongst other things.

 

Odyssey does seem to cover the world civilizations very well and is more comprehensive thant Western Civ. Western Civ is a one semester college text that is devoted to the Western Hemisphere and only sporadically addresses the Eastern nations. So, as a world history course, we found it lacking. In college, Spielvogel was used and the history class was called "History of Western Civilizations". There was a separate course for "World History" and a different text was required.

 

Western Civ is not quite as dry as Human Odyssey. That said, SWB is about the only writer I have encountered that is capable of taking an overview of World History and making it a good read.

 

DD survived Human Odyssey. However, now that SWB has two of her four volumes out, ds will be using them. I think she'll have the set completed before he makes it to 11th grade so we should be able to use them for our spines.

 

Faith

[mo2]

Western Civ is not quite as dry as Human Odyssey. That said, SWB is about the only writer I have encountered that is capable of taking an overview of World History and making it a good read.

 

DD survived Human Odyssey. However, now that SWB has two of her four volumes out, ds will be using them. I think she'll have the set completed before he makes it to 11th grade so we should be able to use them for our spines.

 

Faith

 

Do you think that SWB's books alone are enough for high school history? I haven't read them yet, but the first one is on my summer reading list.

[mo2]

Human Odyssey

- high school text

- focused on all world history (includes a generous amount of text to non-Western cultures)

- includes as sidebars excerpts from source documents and writers of the time studied

- teacher edition also available

- 1 volume

- within-the-chapter quiz questions on key concepts every 4-6 pages; 2 pages at end of each chapter of comprehension questions, discussion questions, writing/research ideas

 

 

Western Civ

- college text

- focused on Western civilizations (non-Western civilizations only very briefly mentioned)

- includes as sidebars excerpts from source documents and writers of the time studied

- has a companion website for the 6th edition

- choice of 1 comprehensive volume, or a 2-volume edition

- a past WTM thread mentioned that after the 5th edition it becomes very "politically correct" in tone

 

 

Thank you, Lori. I think that Human Odyssey is the one I want. I see that you are using Notgrass for American History. Do you have another suggestion for a secular American history? Thanks.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

There is a World History text by Spielvogel/Duiker that is very similar to his Western Civ text. It's basically the Western Civ text edited down to make room for Duiker's chapters. I've bought it instead of the high school texts because it's a college text is the same basic layout as Western Civ. I use both; Western Civ when the civilization we are studying is in it because there is more info on them in it than World History and World History when the civilization we are studying isn't in Western Civ.

[LatinTea]

Margo,

I'm also trying to decide between Human Odyssey or Western Civ. I was wondering if you could share the ISBN numbers for both books and the ISBN for the teacher guides & study guides? I'm been trying to find these, but it's hard without the ISBNs! Are these easy to find used?

 

Thanks!

Sangita

dd(14),dd(12),dd(9),ds(6)

 

P.S I'm also considering using Western Heritage - by Kagan. I've heard its a very good text as well... decisions... decisions...

 

Human Odyssey (pub 1999)

student text 0-314-20561-6

teacher wraparound edition 0-314-20562-4

 

Western Civ (4th edition)

Part 1 0-534-60007-7

Student Guide 0-534-60011-5

Part 2 0-534-56837-8

Student Guide 0-534-56843-2

 

I went to Amazon to check these numbers and got nothing. THEN, I went to one of my favorite sites, http://www.bookfinder.com/?src=google-bf&gclid=CMHAvYKhs4cCFR5ESAodCV0IKA, entered the ISBNs and a bunch showed up, some even on Amazon! I clicked on the link and there they were. Very strange. If you haven't used Bookfinder yet, you will be amazed.

 

Good luck in your search!

[eumyang]

Western Civ is a one semester college text that is devoted to the Western Hemisphere and only sporadically addresses the Eastern nations.

I don't mean to nitpick, but the comprehensive volume is meant to be for a two-semester course at the college level. It is also available in two volumes (I took "History of Modern Civilzation" at college and we used volume II). A number of college course syllabi that I've seen would use this book over two semesters. Western Civilization is also available in three volumes (A, B, C), presumably for colleges that use the quarter system. To me, going through the comprehensive volume would require two years at the high-school level.

 

Just out of curiosity, is Human Odyssey meant to be for a one-year course or a two-year course in World History for high-school students? And have people read these reviews about the book?

http://www.textbookleague.org/92odyss.htm

I don't have the book, so I have no opinion about it -- I couldn't tell you if what the reviewers said is true.

 

 

69

[Lori D.]

Hi Lori,

We will be studying 1600-1850 next school year... what literature curriculum did your dc use for this time period? ...! I'd like to use Great Books, but was wondering if these was something out there (pre-pkged) that's comparable?

 

 

 

That's the time period we'll be covering (well, at least as much of it as we can get to) this coming year with our 11th and 12th gr. sons. We'll be making our own Literature, but actually covering mostly works that are 1850-present -- it's our last year with our older DS, so I'm shooting for works most important to me that we cover, rather than a strict Great Books study matching up with the history. Also, we covered the American works that fall in that 1600-1850 time frame this year during our American History/American Lit. studies.

 

 

A pre-packaged program for literature of Great Books that exactly covers your 1600-1850 time period is SMARR English, Late Renaissance to Romanticism

 

More "messy" to match up would be these complete curriculae:

- Omnibus, from Veritas Press (last 1/4 of Omnibus II/8th grade/Church Fathers to Reformation) (first 1/4 of Omnibus III/9th grade/Reformation to Modern)

- Tapestry of Grace, Year 2 (units 2,3,4) and Year 3 (units 1,2)

 

 

Another option might be to select your own works, and go with individual lit. guides from The Great Books (guides from Year 2 and Year 3), or 1 semester literature programs from Hewitt Homeschooling: Lightning Literature & Composition (American Literature: Early to Mid-19th Century; British Literature: Early to Mid-19th Century)

 

 

BEST of luck, whatever you go with -- and it's fun to know others will be traveling the same "history path" as we will next year! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Lori D.]

Just out of curiosity, is Human Odyssey meant to be for a one-year course or a two-year course in World History for high-school students?

 

 

Don't know what it's meant to be, but we're spreading the 1100+ pages over 3 years. I originally intended to do it over 4 years, but we took a refreshing break from Human Odyssey last year in order to use Notgrass' American History. By breaking HO into 4 years, you'd have under 300 pages a year to cover, which allows you to:

- add in a number of other resources from other perspectives (VERY important, in my opinion)

- cover source documents

- have time to pursue specific topics of interest

 

 

 

 

Just out of curiosity, is Human Odyssey meant to be for a one-year course or a two-year course in World History for high-school students? And have people read these reviews about the book?

http://www.textbookleague.org/92odyss.htm

 

Just skimmed the reviews. Yes, I do agree with the reviews. But to counter, we read aloud/discussed the history AND used other works from other perspectives. It has been good practice for DSs to spot the author's bias, and has encouraged great discussion. I personally would NOT hand Human Odyssey (or probably ANY history text!) to my student and have them read it solo with no discussion -- but I also have the luxury of only 2 students 1 grade apart, so I *can* do the history with them...

 

 

BEST of luck, whatever you go with! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Lori D.]

Thank you, Lori. I think that Human Odyssey is the one I want. I see that you are using Notgrass for American History. Do you have another suggestion for a secular American history? Thanks.

 

 

Alas, no. Notgrass was the first thing I looked at, and for once, I knew I didn't need to look further. :) However, below are some past threads with secular suggestions. BEST of luck finding what works best for your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

I need a secular American history text

High school American history spine

Which texts do you use for a history spine?

Can we get all US history options in one place?

Secular history for high school

What curriculum do you recommend for US history?

[TravelingChris]

I don't really see why Western Civ can't be done in one year- albeit lightly. It has 29 chapter of each about 30 pages. I am going to be assigning one chapter a week plus some DK Visual History pages to help for the lack of Non Western. On some weeks when there is a lot of non - western, they will just read the non- western. THe workbooks don't look like that much to do. I don't think that 30 pages of reading is excessive in one subject for a high schooler.

[mo2]

Alas, no. Notgrass was the first thing I looked at, and for once, I knew I didn't need to look further. :) However, below are some past threads with secular suggestions. BEST of luck finding what works best for your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

I need a secular American history text

High school American history spine

Which texts do you use for a history spine?

Can we get all US history options in one place?

Secular history for high school

What curriculum do you recommend for US history?

 

 

Thank you. These led me to the Oak Meadow American history course, which looks really good. Still more options to check out...

[LatinTea]

I don't really see why Western Civ can't be done in one year- albeit lightly. It has 29 chapter of each about 30 pages. I am going to be assigning one chapter a week plus some DK Visual History pages to help for the lack of Non Western. On some weeks when there is a lot of non - western, they will just read the non- western. THe workbooks don't look like that much to do. I don't think that 30 pages of reading is excessive in one subject for a high schooler.

 

Our local college's dual credit course that many home schoolers do here in MN uses Spielvogel's Western Civ. It is completed in ONE semester! That makes my head spin just writing it out. :lol:

[SS in MD]

That's the time period we'll be covering (well, at least as much of it as we can get to) this coming year with our 11th and 12th gr. sons. We'll be making our own Literature, but actually covering mostly works that are 1850-present -- it's our last year with our older DS, so I'm shooting for works most important to me that we cover, rather than a strict Great Books study matching up with the history. Also, we covered the American works that fall in that 1600-1850 time frame this year during our American History/American Lit. studies.

 

 

A pre-packaged program for literature of Great Books that exactly covers your 1600-1850 time period is SMARR English, Late Renaissance to Romanticism

 

More "messy" to match up would be these complete curriculae:

- Omnibus, from Veritas Press (last 1/4 of Omnibus II/8th grade/Church Fathers to Reformation) (first 1/4 of Omnibus III/9th grade/Reformation to Modern)

- Tapestry of Grace, Year 2 (units 2,3,4) and Year 3 (units 1,2)

 

 

Another option might be to select your own works, and go with individual lit. guides from The Great Books (guides from Year 2 and Year 3), or 1 semester literature programs from Hewitt Homeschooling: Lightning Literature & Composition (American Literature: Early to Mid-19th Century; British Literature: Early to Mid-19th Century)

 

 

BEST of luck, whatever you go with -- and it's fun to know others will be traveling the same "history path" as we will next year! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Lori -

Thank you so much for all the links! Have you used any of the literature guides you mentioned (Smarr or Lightning Lit)? I went to the Great Books website, I really like the book reviews! Have you used any of their literature guides?? I didn't see samples...

 

I really would like to have good history discussions & literature analysis discussions... but with teaching 3 others it is helpful to have a curriculum that fits the bill ... Lol.

 

We used TOG Year 2 (Units 1 & 2) this year (borrowed from a friend). I really liked the thought questions and tried to lead dds in socratic discussions - but, they mostly just answered the questions. I've borrowed Year 2 Units 3 & 4 and have been looking over the rhetoric history core & Lit. It looks like a big jump in reading and discussion from dialectic. Oldest dd wants to also take 1 AP, so don't know if she'll have the time to do all the reading, Q's and discussion... lots to think over...

 

So, are you using HO and piecing together literature from the history time period?

 

Thanks so much for your helpul post,

Sangita

dd(14),dd(12),dd(9),ds(6)

[SS in MD]

Human Odyssey (pub 1999)

student text 0-314-20561-6

teacher wraparound edition 0-314-20562-4

 

Western Civ (4th edition)

Part 1 0-534-60007-7

Student Guide 0-534-60011-5

Part 2 0-534-56837-8

Student Guide 0-534-56843-2

 

I went to Amazon to check these numbers and got nothing. THEN, I went to one of my favorite sites, http://www.bookfinder.com/?src=google-bf&gclid=CMHAvYKhs4cCFR5ESAodCV0IKA, entered the ISBNs and a bunch showed up, some even on Amazon! I clicked on the link and there they were. Very strange. If you haven't used Bookfinder yet, you will be amazed.

 

Good luck in your search!

 

Thank you very much for the IBSNs - very helpful!!! Also, thanks for the link- I haven't used bookfinder before! This forum is great! Thanks for sharing!

 

Sangita

[LatinTea]

Thank you very much for the IBSNs - very helpful!!! Also, thanks for the link- I haven't used bookfinder before! This forum is great! Thanks for sharing!

 

Sangita

 

You're welcome! Glad to have helped. And yes, this is one cool forum. :D