How can I lead my daughter to forgive her .....

[Michele in New Zealand]

...

[Melissa in Australia]

hi, I don't have any advice, just am thinking of you .

12 year olds are at that awkward age, hopefully she will improve with age.(

MelissaL

[CalicoKat]

...father.

 

My marriage was in ruins a few weeks ago. Long story made short - he left, apparently at that point it was forever, saying to me and the kids that he didn't love me anymore, he is back and we are putting our relationship back together. In fact, he is now talking after many years of non communication and resentment. It has been brilliant and loving and everything is going so well. He said a lot of things in the heat of the moment, that he didn't mean and that were directed at me, but that the children heard too. They were so worried for me and for them. It was such a terrible time but it is so much better now. Better than it has been for a long time.

 

Our number 2 problem is our 12yo daughter. She is so full of hatred and unforgiveness towards her father. He cannot say anything to him without being told to "Shut up, I hate you, I wish you never came back...@#%?/", etc, etc. I have spoken to her how when she doesn't forgive it hurts her just as much as it hurts her Dad. I have also talked about whwat sort of person she wants to be, the chances she has been given when she has blown it, the forgiveness she has received in the past.... etc, etc.

 

The dd has had an anger problem in the past being totally "off her face" with anger, bitterness and rage. She has seen a child psych and may have to again, but I would like to be able to prevent that if I can.

 

Does the HIVE have any advice for me? Your prayers, positive thoughts and cyber hugs would be much appreciated. I feel that she will only cause herself and us more stress if this continues. I really don't know what to do.

IMO your dd has every right to every ounce of hurt and anger she's feeling. Your husband should acknowledge it each each time with, "I know I hurt you so very badly. I'm so sorry." He & you shouldn't expect her to forgive him until she's ready. But I do think that you can tell her that in her anger and unforgiveness you still expect her not swear and call names. Those are things that she might someday feel very badly about too and there are other words to let her father know just how badly she's feeling.

 

I do think that professional counseling for her and your family is immedlatly required. If I was you I know that I would need a confidential safe place to grieve the huge change in my marriage. I wouldn't feel that someone who has said all those hurtful things then runaway and then comes back is a someone I could trust on many different levels.

 

Even though your dd is the only child acting out, your other kids probably aren't speaking of the world of hurt they're feeling.

 

Get help. Get it quick. Recognize your dd's anger. Don't ask her to "let it go."

[beansprouts]

I completely agree with Calico. Your daughter was hurt very deeply, and it is going to take real time and effort to heal those wounds. Her Daddy left her and said very hurtful things. Now he's back, ans things are supposed to be "all better" but she still remembers the pain, and does not want to be hurt again. Whats more, now she's labeled as "unforgiving" and has this "anger problem" thrown in her face because she's not just going along with the program and pretending that everybody is one big happy family again. Now you're posting on a message board for advice on how to "fix" your daughter. This whole situation is *not* her fault, and her feelings are completely normal and need to be recognized.

 

I am really not trying to be snarky, but I can see how she must feel. The truth is, I feel physical pain when I hear of families splitting apart. I am very grateful that your dh has returned. I am grateful that he is communicating and rebuilding his relationship with his wife. You have been given the grace to forgive him and allow him back. Forgiveness like this does not come from human effort, so please give your daughter a break. Stop focusing on her faults and trying to "fix" her. Just love her. And get the whole family to a counselor.

 

{{HUGS}}

[cricket1178]

IMO your dd has every right to every ounce of hurt and anger she's feeling. Your husband should acknowledge it each each time with, "I know I hurt you so very badly. I'm so sorry." He & you shouldn't expect her to forgive him until she's ready. But I do think that you can tell her that in her anger and unforgiveness you still expect her not swear and call names. Those are things that she might someday feel very badly about too and there are other words to let her father know just how badly she's feeling.

 

I do think that professional counseling for her and your family is immedlatly required. If I was you I know that I would need a confidential safe place to grieve the huge change in my marriage. I wouldn't feel that someone who has said all those hurtful things then runaway and then comes back is a someone I could trust on many different levels.

 

Even though your dd is the only child acting out, your other kids probably aren't speaking of the world of hurt they're feeling.

 

Get help. Get it quick. Recognize your dd's anger. Don't ask her to "let it go."

 

I agree. Discipline/instruct your dd to not disrespect her father, you, your home, but allow her to grieve and work through the feelings she's having.

 

I also I agree with the counseling. Your entire family needs it to heal. I certainly wouldn't try to handle something of this magnitude on my own.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I'm trying to be gentle here. This is a hot button topic for me. I'm 40, but my heart still burns as if it just happened.

 

Honestly, right or wrong, I lost a lot of respect for my mother when she "took back" my adulterous stepfather (I was your daughter's age). I just couldn't see her POV. His remorse did not register with me and I resented her for wanting me to "play along" like we were one, big, happy family. I was angry for a very long time. He left us in a financial and emotional ruin. My mother would make a Martha Stewart meal and my sf wouldn't show up. He made up crazy stories to explain his absences and she believed them when I could see through them. I would lay in my room at night and hear her sobbing in the next room after trying unsuccessfully to contact him. At 12, I couldn't imagine forgiving anyone who had put my mother and I in such a state because of his own selfishness.

 

Eventually, my stepfather left us for good. I haven't seen him in decades, but I guess I've forgiven him. It's easier to understand how complex relationships are now that I've been in one for 17 years. But at 12, I just saw things very black and white.

 

You may be able to forgive your dh, but that is your decision. I understand that you want your family to be restored, but your family's wounds are deep and it will take time. Your daughter is not being unreasonable for being angry. She is being normal. I think you need to honor her feelings, no matter how it makes your dh feel. He needs to take his lumps.

 

I agree with the previous poster that you should seek family counseling. However, I would suggest that your daughter's anger is not the problem to be addressed, but the trust issue that must be rebuilt and established. From my own experience, I would say the trust and stability of the family was breeched and that was the root of my anger.

 

JMHO,

K

[Karen sn]

I agree with CalicoCat, beansprout, and cricket.

She has seen his true colors. Now, maybe he also has good color as well - but he owes HER the apologies (to say nothing of what he owes you).

 

She should not be permitted to curse or be disrespectful to him - but she should be allowed to feel the way she does. And his job at this point is repentence. He needs to ask for forgiveness repeatedly and give her time to show that he can change.

 

I know what my dd would do in that situation - much worse than yours! She is head strong and independent and if you are mean to her or someone she loves - she takes it seriously.

[Danestress]

to expect her to really trust that he's back and things are going to change. Give her time.

 

She witnessed things that she should never have witnessed, and your husband may pay the price for that for a long time. Unfortunately, when we repent of sin, we can be relieved of it's burden, but sometimes the effects continue to last.

 

The reality is that he didn't protect her. He didn't protect her from his own negative emotions, he spewed all that out in front of her becaue he lacked self control and concern for her feelings, and I'm sure she doesn't feel trust in him. She may trust that he's staying, but how vulnerable she must feel to see her father behave that way and to know that when he feels something strongly, she can't rely on him to behave with her best interests in mind.

 

I think you need to stop pointing to her as the source of stress in your family. The past interactions between you and your DH are a source of stress and a few weeks of brilliance and loving will not erase that. All kids cause stress - some more than others. And she may need counseling. But I really think you both need to acknowledge to her that she's not the problem in the family - that she's been a victim of other people. Which does't make her behavior acceptable - just her feelings.

 

Anyway, good luck to you. I'm really glad for you that your marriage is healing, and I hope that in time, that kind of healing will saturate the whole family in a renewed love and peace. Marriage and family and parenting can be SO hard.

[klmama]

First, I agree with the others. I had a lot of anger toward my father for leaving when I was a girl, and there wasn't even anything bad said. I can't imagine how hurt she must be. Give her permission to grieve the loss of the "perfect" daddy she wanted to have. Counseling is good.

 

As for the ongoing anger issue, though, I have to wonder if she might have a nutritional or metabolic problem that is causing it. Zinc deficiency and excess copper are related to anger problems. Sometimes the level of copper and zinc are both within the normal range, but the copper/zinc ratio is off and causes problems. Just something to consider looking into. I'm sure you can find good info if you google.

[CalicoKat]

IMO your dd has every right to every ounce of hurt and anger she's feeling. Your husband should acknowledge it each each time with, "I know I hurt you so very badly. I'm so sorry." He & you shouldn't expect her to forgive him until she's ready. But I do think that you can tell her that in her anger and unforgiveness you still expect her not swear and call names. Those are things that she might someday feel very badly about too and there are other words to let her father know just how badly she's feeling.

 

I do think that professional counseling for her and your family is immedlatly required. If I was you I know that I would need a confidential safe place to grieve the huge change in my marriage. I wouldn't feel that someone who has said all those hurtful things then runaway and then comes back is a someone I could trust on many different levels.

 

Even though your dd is the only child acting out, your other kids probably aren't speaking of the world of hurt they're feeling.

 

Get help. Get it quick. Recognize your dd's anger. Don't ask her to "let it go."

Further thoughts: Does your husband realize that healing the hurt he inflicted with those heated words and actions will take his entire lifetime. Is he committed enough to your family for his lifetime? You need to realistically ask yourself how committed to reconciliation is he? IMO your children are your priority.

[Jenny in Atl]

I love this quote I heard Bill Cosby make, "Hurt people, hurt people." This will take time. Give her someone outside the family, she trusts and you trust, that she can talk to. I also agree outside support for the whole family would be great. Even if the issues in the marriage are just between you and your husband, the effects are always felt by the kids. :grouphug:

[kalanamak]

...father.

 

My marriage was in ruins a few weeks ago. Long story made short - he left, apparently at that point it was forever, saying to me and the kids that he didn't love me anymore, he is back and we are putting our relationship back together. In fact, he is now talking after many years of non communication and resentment. It has been brilliant and loving and everything is going so well. He said a lot of things in the heat of the moment, that he didn't mean and that were directed at me, but that the children heard too. They were so worried for me and for them. It was such a terrible time but it is so much better now. Better than it has been for a long time.

 

 

Pardon me, but "the honeymoon" may not last. Daughter may see something that you don't, also. Love can cloud the vision.

 

I think "forgiving" and "trusting" are up to her and will only come with time and your husband walking the walk, not just talking the talk.

 

That said, her manners are not good, and I would tell her such language is not acceptable, and that if she can't keep such things to herself, she should leave the room and tell it to a tree.

 

I wish you strength in this.

[Philothea]

I went through a very similar situation at 12 years of age.

 

I first think that kids need time and space to get over the shock of a parent leaving. They also need to know that it is alright to be angry and express it, but there is an appropriate way to do so.

 

The trust will take a long time to come back but it has to be earned by the father. Not through token father-daughter time, but he needs to show the family that he is there for them every day and is committed to having a solid family lifestyle.

 

He needs to also understand that the children will criticize his actions and they have every right to be angry with him, because he did do wrong.

[Plucky]

Yes, I agree here. Dad acted poorly and lost her trust. If he hasn't apologized then he needs to do so now. He left once. How can she trust he won't do so again?

[abbeyej]

I'm so sorry you've been through this, but I have to agree with the others on this: it's entirely unreasonable to ask an adolescent to "forgive and forget" something that amazingly hurtful in such a short time. Yes, at some point she will need to forgive him for her own good, but you're putting her in a situation where "forgiveness" is synonymous with "trust", and trust is impossible for her right now (and with good reason). It's easier to forgive from a distance, when "forgiving" can really mean just "letting go". But how can she be expected to "let go" when she must face him and his betrayal (and the constant threat of a repeat of that betrayal) every day? She can't "forgive" and live with him every moment until she learns to trust him again -- and that could take a d*mn long time.

 

It's wonderful that *you* trust him. That you think a *real* change has been made.

 

But what he said and did -- even if you try to rationalize it by saying it was directed at *you* -- broke something deep inside her. She has learned an incredibly painful truth about *both* of her parents right now, and that's hard to reconcile. She's been forced to face the fact that both of you have human flaws and weaknesses, and she's just barely old enough to really process that -- more than a child would, but with less understanding of the complexity of human nature than an adult could.

 

This is *not* her problem. She didn't create it. And she's not the one trying to sweep it under the rug. It's great that things are better now for you than they have been for years, and I truly wish for you that your husband's change is deep and lasting... But you need to give your *daughter* some time to heal. It's reasonable that she doesn't trust her father right now. He needs to understand that telling her once that he's sorry just *sooo* isn't going to cut it. He will have to earn her trust back through actions over time. There's no shortcut.

 

I do agree with others who encouraged you to let her know that while her anger, hurt and mistrust are reasonable, shouting obscenities at her father is not an appropriate way of expressing that.

 

I also think that she should be able to see a counselor right now who will let her work through some of this pain and anger -- and yes, work *towards* forgiveness and, if appropriate, trust again. She needs someone outside the immediate family right now. I think family counseling would also be a good idea, but if you don't like that idea, I think she should go alone. Not to fix her. I don't think she needs fixing. But to give her the chance to work through this pain with someone wiser and more experienced (and not a player in the whole drama).

[Claire]

Have you considered counseling? Sounds as if the 12yo would benefit from individual counseling, and likely everyone would benefit from family counseling to work through these issues.

[Mrs Mungo]

Have you considered counseling? Sounds as if the 12yo would benefit from individual counseling, and likely everyone would benefit from family counseling to work through these issues.

 

I agree. My uncle left my aunt in *very* similar circumstances to what the OPer describes. They went through intense family counseling with their pastor for a few months *before* he moved back in. I think that made a *huge* difference in how successful they have been in getting past it.

[Barb_]

Agreeing with the others. You are in a position to forgive because as an adult, you have equal power and forgiveness is yours to give. Her father abused his power and destroyed her ability to trust him. She didn't throw it away; he took it. He is the adult and must set the tone for a continuing relationship. The ugly words need to stop, but no one should be expecting her to have the ability to put this behind her unless he works to convince her himself. If she feels you are taking his side, her feelings will entrench themselves and take years to clear.

 

Barb

[G5052]

You can certainly forgive and give people a chance, but that doesn't erase the damage. Ideally your husband needs to more explicitly acknowledge her anger and that he was the cause of it, even if things are better now. Things are not "back to normal." They're better, but you all need to acknowledge that there was indeed a breach and work together.

[Harriet Vane]

I especially agree with what CalicoKat and Abbeyej said.

 

Please consider what is offered in this thread carefully--I believe that doing so can help your family in this painful journey.

 

And, please, consider a therapist for your family. A wise outsider can really help organize your thoughts, and help you learn to relate to each other in a healthy way.

[LaMere Academy]

IMO your dd has every right to every ounce of hurt and anger she's feeling. Your husband should acknowledge it each each time with, "I know I hurt you so very badly. I'm so sorry." He & you shouldn't expect her to forgive him until she's ready. But I do think that you can tell her that in her anger and unforgiveness you still expect her not swear and call names. Those are things that she might someday feel very badly about too and there are other words to let her father know just how badly she's feeling.

 

I do think that professional counseling for her and your family is immedlatly required. If I was you I know that I would need a confidential safe place to grieve the huge change in my marriage. I wouldn't feel that someone who has said all those hurtful things then runaway and then comes back is a someone I could trust on many different levels.

 

Even though your dd is the only child acting out, your other kids probably aren't speaking of the world of hurt they're feeling.

 

Get help. Get it quick. Recognize your dd's anger. Don't ask her to "let it go."

I agree and think your dh, if he hasn't already...should have a one on one talk with her to apologize and listen to what she has to say. Praying for you all and I'm so glad your dh came home!!

[RebeccaC]

I agree with what CalicoKat and Abbeyej wrote. There is another side to this and that is your dh needs to see just how much he has hurt your and his children and that it can not be quickly forgiven or made right. He has to earn their trust again and that can only happen over time. The deeper the hurt the longer the time it will take to earn trust again.

 

You and dh may think that this is just between you two but the way kids experience it is not only do you not love my mom but you also do not love me and that is a right on projection of what has happened. If he truly loved his kids he should have thought what his action would have done to them. It is true that greatest thing an man can do to love his kids is love their mom.

 

The best way that you can help her forgive is for both of you to work hard at rebuilding your marriage and making it stable. That takes time. Once your children feel secure again that is when you can help lead them into forgiveness not before. What y'all have been thro can not be heal in a week or a month but it can in months and years. You can ask for a civil language but don't ask that she stuff her pain and feelings because you will create and even bigger problem.

 

In the meantime prayer is your best path because somethings only God can heal. Great thing tho is He is in the business of rebuilding broken lives. Find a good licensed family therapist and pray.

[Kris]

Another "I agree." She's a 12 year old child and it sounds like she's acting like one. Unfortunately, she's feeling this way because it sounds like your husband was acting like one, too. *He* is the adult here. She shouldn't be expected to act more maturely than he did. "I'm sorry" doesn't take back all the hurtful -- and yes SCARY! -- things he did.

 

But she definitely shouldn't be allowed to talk to him like that. While it's understandable that his unacceptable behavior has created anger in her, it doesn't excuse *her* unacceptable behavior -- but her feelings are perfectly understandable.

 

I also wonder if this is the first time this kind of thing has happened, just maybe on a smaller scale. In her mind, is there a "track record" of violation of trust? I also wonder if you know if she trusts *you* now. I don't know, of course, but she might have anger towards you, too, for taking him back after that. I sure hope that's not the case, but if it is, it sure won't help.

 

I hope you're able to find a way to help her through this -- with counseling, etc. -- and that everything works out in the end. But it's definitely going to take time, and it hasn't been too long yet.

[RebeccaC]

One other thing that I think I should add is that it was not just words that hurt all of you but actions. This can not be mended with words alone and time, it will have to be mended with action on your dh part and probably on your part too. To forgive with out the rebuilding of trust is not good or healthy.

 

I am sorry that this has happened.

[Fourmother]

Another vote for family therapy...

 

It's important to acknowledge not only the pain caused when dad walked out, but the tension and/or negative feelings that lead to the break up. Children are not stupid. They knew something was wrong before the bomb dropped. Maybe this is the root of dd's anger. AND it's also important to acknowledge that the other kids are feeling sad and confused, too. Just because they don't happen to be acting out right now doesn't mean they haven't been affected by all this.

 

I've read that when a family system is broken, often one child becomes the alarm. Putting the "troubled kid" on the sacrificial alter of therapy without addressing the family as a unit won't work, according to Dr. Phil. ;) It's a cop out to fix the child who is acting out while the whole family is in trouble. I'm not saying this is intentional. Sometimes as parents it's hard for us to see how everything is interconnected. We are constantly putting out fires all over the place and can't always find the source.

 

I'm very sorry that you are dealing with this. Good luck and best wishes to you and your family.:grouphug:

[Copswife]

As a Christian, my question would be, what's the difference between time for healing/rebuilding trust and letting a child turn bitter. Unresolved anger turns into bitterness and bitterness isn't easily undone.

 

I was 12, we all were. Some twelve year old girls are more mature than others. Some 12 y/o are master manipulators. It's hard to know what kind of child the OP has here.

 

Just wanted to add this in to see what others think.

[Plucky]

There is likely more to the story and a pattern of issues going back years. No, the 12 year old shouldn't talk disrespectfully to dad. But Dad needs to be the one to show maturity here first. Family counseling is a good thing and the girl is entitled to her feelings. Some adults think kids are so "resilient" and that they should never show negative, valid feelings. It's sad. I'm surprised you'd even post that based on the OP.

[Janet in WA]

Michele, there have been some pretty stern words for you and your dh. I agree with the sentiments expressed. But I also think that your desire to help your daughter forgive is a very important and valid one. No matter how understandable her ill feelings are, she's not going to be happy until -- or unless -- she can be helped to heal from them. I do think that family counseling is in order. I doubt that your dd is the only one who could use some help dealing with their issues.

[Michele in New Zealand]

Janet, thank you!

 

I do want what is best for her (my dd). I see that this could ruin the way she views men, fathers and people that she trusts forever. I don't want her to be harmed from her own unforgiveness. I don't expect her to forgive until she is ready to, but I don't want anger to take over and make it impossible.

 

Thank you to everyone else who responded to my question. It has given me a lot to think about.

[Copswife]

It's sad. I'm surprised you'd even post that based on the OP.

 

Elaine, who are you speaking to? It's so hard to tell when you just reply without a quote. You were right under me, so now I'm wondering if its something I said.

 

Tracie

There is likely more to the story and a pattern of issues going back years. No, the 12 year old shouldn't talk disrespectfully to dad. But Dad needs to be the one to show maturity here first. Family counseling is a good thing and the girl is entitled to her feelings. Some adults think kids are so "resilient" and that they should never show negative, valid feelings. It's sad. I'm surprised you'd even post that based on the OP.

[beansprouts]

As a Christian, my question would be, what's the difference between time for healing/rebuilding trust and letting a child turn bitter. Unresolved anger turns into bitterness and bitterness isn't easily undone.

 

I was 12, we all were. Some twelve year old girls are more mature than others. Some 12 y/o are master manipulators. It's hard to know what kind of child the OP has here.

 

Just wanted to add this in to see what others think.

 

This is a valid point. Bitterness can be toxic to the heart and soul. This is exactly why she needs help processing her feelings so they do not turn to bitterness and resentment which will affect her future relationships. Please remember that it was only a few weeks ago that her father walked out on her. I hate to say it, but my feeling is that Mom and Dad would like to sweep the whole ugly situation under the carpet and move on, and she is the one spoiling the party. Her feelings need to be heard, and validated, and I agree that she needs to learn how to express them appropriately.

[Copswife]

Oh TOTALLY. I agree with you and everyone else on that point. That is why I approached it as a question in general. We all probably know people who hang on to bitterness long after the offending party has asked forgiveness and changed. I wish years ago someone had told me to get over myself and move on and forgive a certain someone in my life. (NOT my dh)

 

Obviously in this case, the wounds are fresh. I would be completely weary, hurt, and devastated if it had been me at 12. But I also would've used it to my advantage a year or two down the road because I was a brat. :tongue_smilie:

 

I hate when kids get hurt. Trust me, as a foster parents I've learned so much about hurting children. I've also seen some really, really bad situations and kids that forgive their biological parents for some really horrific stuff.

 

So, while dad did hurt her, he's back. Let him rebuild the trust. He should ask forgiveness with a humble and broken spirit. It will take time. And hopefully the 12 y/o will be able to forgive her dad because he is there and is trying.

 

This is a valid point. Bitterness can be toxic to the heart and soul. This is exactly why she needs help processing her feelings so they do not turn to bitterness and resentment which will affect her future relationships. Please remember that it was only a few weeks ago that her father walked out on her. I hate to say it, but my feeling is that Mom and Dad would like to sweep the whole ugly situation under the carpet and move on, and she is the one spoiling the party. Her feelings need to be heard, and validated, and I agree that she needs to learn how to express them appropriately.

[Michele in New Zealand]

This is a valid point. Bitterness can be toxic to the heart and soul. This is exactly why she needs help processing her feelings so they do not turn to bitterness and resentment which will affect her future relationships. Please remember that it was only a few weeks ago that her father walked out on her. I hate to say it, but my feeling is that Mom and Dad would like to sweep the whole ugly situation under the carpet and move on, and she is the one spoiling the party. Her feelings need to be heard, and validated, and I agree that she needs to learn how to express them appropriately.

 

You are rude and judgemental. We are not sweeping this under carpet. How dare you even assume such a thing. Her feelings are heard. My concern is that if she doesn't learn how to let it go, it could ruin who she is and how she interacts with people. I asked for help and I received nothing but criticisim from most of the people who replied.

 

You have just added to the hurt.

[Mrs Mungo]

You are rude and judgemental. We are not sweeping this under carpet. How dare you even assume such a thing. Her feelings are heard. My concern is that if she doesn't learn how to let it go, it could ruin who she is and how she interacts with people. I asked for help and I received nothing but criticisim from most of the people who replied.

 

You have just added to the hurt.

 

I'm sorry you feel hurt. It's really the reason things like this are best left off the boards. When we invite people into our personal lives and ask for advice from faceless strangers, it's easy to take well-intentioned advice as criticism and take it to heart. I hope your family finds a way to heal the hurts. No family is perfect.

[Michele in New Zealand]

I'm sorry you feel hurt. It's really the reason things like this are best left off the boards. When we invite people into our personal lives and ask for advice from faceless strangers, it's easy to take well-intentioned advice as criticism and take it to heart. I hope your family finds a way to heal the hurts. No family is perfect.

 

So now it was wrong to ask for help. Well, you know what? I have learnt my lesson. The advice from some was not well intentioned at all and you know it. It was hurtful and came from a place of judgement. I have come to expect that from christians but for some reason posted here anyway. Who knows what I was thinking.