Struggling To Find a Church

[Caraway]

My religious upbringing was spotty at best. We were Presbyterians who never went to church. Then my father's brother died and for a brief, but very memorable time, were Baptists. In high school I transferred to a Catholic high school, where I took, of course, religion. Also in high school I attended for a short time the Presbyterian youth group since my grandmother kept telling me what nice kids were involved with the group. Actually they were kids getting into all kinds of trouble because their parents thought that they were at church. My senior year of high school I had a very...er, confusing, relationship with the Catholic youth minister at my high school.

 

That was the extent of my religion. I got married on a golf course with a minister that promised not to be too religious. :lol:

 

So.... now I have a 3 yo and a 7 yo. I am saddened that we do not have a family experience of faith. I want some sort of seasonal, religious anchoring. I want my kids to grow up with the community of a church.

 

I LOVED the ritual of the Catholics. I struggle with the idea of the Pope, and I am horrified with current events regarding molestation. I am not too fond of foreign missionary work. I do not think that I could convince my husband to be a Catholic. I want my children to participate, but I don't really want to drop them off in Sunday School.

 

We live in a very liberal area. There are LOTS of UU type church experiences. We do not have any local churches with that grand traditional feel or sense of history. They are mostly low ceiling, beige buildings from the 70s. All very uninspiring.

 

I thought that I had found a church nearby - which I have not yet visited. Beautiful old building. Lutheran. I could fit very easily with the Lutheran beliefs. I found the idea of adherence to the Bible very comforting. I don't really want a "choose your own adventure" type of religion.

 

From the safety of my home I was becoming very comfortable with the idea of becoming a Lutheran. Except that this church is ELCA. I found their discussions about their "full communion" stance confusing... because it seemed sort of wishy-washy. Then with the move to support gay clergy.... I really struggle. I support gay CIVIL unions, and I support my gay friends, but I don't really think that an organization that says it is committed to following the word of the Bible while essentially working outside the Bible.... is maintaining its own standard. :001_huh:

 

And now they are working on stances about things like cloning etc....

 

So. Now what? Go to the Lutheran church, which we MAY really like, even though I am really disappointed by the ELCA factor? Find a different denomination? Something else? There is not another Lutheran church of a different flavor (like MS) within a reasonable distance.

 

Help? Thoughts?

[milovany]

Check out Eastern Orthodoxy! "The best kept secret in America." Most people in America are familiar with the Roman Catholic church, but don't know much about the Orthodox church, but it has all the history of the RC church (we'd say even more), and it's very liturgical and traditional and completely conservative. There are no "winds of change" in Orthodoxy. We have patriarchs for the different jurisdictions, but no pope -- no central one-man authority. We became Orthodox in January -- all nine of us -- and we love, love, love it, including the kids! We are ALL seeing our faith and practice of faith changed forever. PM me if you have any questions! :)

Edited May 25, 2010 by milovaný

[Liz CA]

Are you looking for quite a bit of external structure? The Catholic Church may provide this.

Many don-denominational & many lutheran / evangelistic churches stress a direct relationship with Jesus Christ much more than the Catholics ever did when I grew up Catholic.

 

Are you willing to read the Bible or become involved in bible studies and have a little less external structure but build more internal structure based on bible reading and relationships with other believers?

I can see that the choices seem overwhelming. Pray for direction to be led to the right place. Being part of a church and a church family should feel comfortable and uplifting.

[ProudGrandma]

I am going to PM you

[Caraway]

Check out Eastern Orthodoxy! "The best kept secret in America." Most people in America are familiar with the Roman Catholic church, but don't know much about the Orthodox church, but it has all the history of the RC church (we'd say even more), and it's very liturgical and traditional and completely conservative. There are no "winds of change" in Orthodoxy. We have patriarchs for the different jurisdictions, but no pope -- no central one-man authority. We became Orthodox in January -- all nine of us -- and we love, love, love it, including the kids! We are ALL seeing our faith and practice of faith changed forever. PM me if you have any questions! :)

 

My understanding of Orthodoxy is that services involve standing the entire time and singing. And cheek kissing. Although I have no real idea on why this is was I remember... so I could be way off.

 

What did you convert from?

[Caraway]

Are you looking for quite a bit of external structure? The Catholic Church may provide this.

Many don-denominational & many lutheran / evangelistic churches stress a direct relationship with Jesus Christ much more than the Catholics ever did when I grew up Catholic.

 

Are you willing to read the Bible or become involved in bible studies and have a little less external structure but build more internal structure based on bible reading and relationships with other believers?

I can see that the choices seem overwhelming. Pray for direction to be led to the right place. Being part of a church and a church family should feel comfortable and uplifting.

 

I am reading the Bible, and I would be happy to participate in Bible Study. I am fine providing my own internal structure.

 

However I struggle with churches who say "Well, the Bible say A, but it really means B." Or "The Bible says C, but we just ignore that part".

[SonshineLearner]

Could you choose a Lutheran Church that is Missouri Synod or Wisconsin Synod? Those would have formality, with views you might find with a more "conservative view" of the Bible.....

[Parrothead]

I LOVED the ritual of the Catholics. I struggle with the idea of the Pope, and I am horrified with current events regarding molestation. I am not too fond of foreign missionary work. I do not think that I could convince my husband to be a Catholic. I want my children to participate, but I don't really want to drop them off in Sunday School.

A lot of people have a distorted idea of who the pope is and what it is he does. As for the other, there is no excuse and steps have been taken.

 

If you ever delve deeper into the Catholic faith you'll find it to be wonderful.

 

And I can honestly say if I wasn't Roman Catholic I would look at:

The Eastern Catholic Church,

The Orthodox Church,

And possibly the Lutheran Church if I had to pick a Protestant church.

 

Good luck with your search.

[ScoutTN]

You might like an Anglican (as distinct from an Episcopal) church. They are the churches which have pulled out over ordination of practicing homosexuals. So more conservative, but not off the deep end right by any stretch. Generally do ordain women. Great liturgy (thank you Thomas Cranmer!), preaching depth will vary, usually a traditional building.

 

You might like my church, which is PCA and has a neogothic cathedral style sanctuary and formal worship and is warm and friendly. Wish you were here!:D

[milovany]

My understanding of Orthodoxy is that services involve standing the entire time and singing. And cheek kissing. Although I have no real idea on why this is was I remember... so I could be way off.

 

What did you convert from?

 

There is the understanding in Orthodoxy that we're in the presence of the King during services, so yes there is a lot of standing -- especially at specific times. You get used to it! And it's not like it's required and you're looked down upon if you don't stand (or even if you are, that's an issue of the heart that the other person will deal with, you know?). In our church we have folding chairs set up and people can sit as needed.

 

The services are sung and chanted -- it's gorgeous!

for you (this isn't our church by the way). Part of this is so that personal interpretation and individuality (personal charisma) aren't what the service is based on; it's just based on the prayers and liturgy of the undivided church.

 

And we do give a "kiss of peace" as part of the Divine Liturgy -- before reciting the Nicene Creed. More than an actual kiss, we lean into each other on each side and say "Christ is in our midst" on one side and "He is and ever shall be" on the other. This shows our unity before saying the Creed together, and before partaking of the Eucharist together.

 

If you go to the link I linked in my original post, there's an article on that page called "12 Things I Wish I'd Known Before My First Visit To An Orthodox Church" (or something similar to that) -- it's a great overview of what an Orthodox service is like. Here's a link to see if there's an Orthodox church near you -- click here. Orthodoxy is definitely a "come and see!" church -- you can read about it a lot, but to experience the LIFE of the church (to see what it's really all about), attending a service is a must.

 

You mentioned wanting a "seasonal" church -- this is something we were looking for too. Something that celebrated the cycles of the year.

 

As for what we were before, we have previously attended Baptist, Foursquare, Vineyard, home and independent charismatic churches. Always looking! We're done looking. We're Orthodox through and through forever and ever.

Edited May 25, 2010 by milovaný

[fairfarmhand]

Read the Mitford books by Jan Karon. They center around an episcopal minister and give a great idea of what the church might be like. (and they are fabulously entertaining too!)

[Carol in Cal.]

...to me, you sound like you would like either:

 

A conservative/confessional liturgical Missouri Synod Lutheran congregation (that's what I am, and you sound very much like me)

 

OR

 

An Eastern Orthodox congregation that is not geared toward one specific ethnic group (very hard to find, and you would probably have difficulty with their asking the saints to pray for them)

 

OR

 

A conservative Episcopal or Anglican church, and I don't know how to find which is which but I know that there are some out there.

[kmacnchs]

I don't know where you live but do you have any "Bible believing" churches around you? These are generally churches in which most of the members used to belong to a certain denomination but did not agree with what the denomination was supporting (kind of like the things you mentioned). So, they started a church that is based on the Bible - anything that is in the Bible is taught, anything that is not in the Bible is not. Sounds simple and sounds like, "doesn't every church do this?" but, as you have found already, that is not the case...not sure if it's something you could google, but ask around, there may be some! The only thing is many times these churches are small (in #) and meet in a barn or a school (not very "inspiring" as far as stained glass but VERY inspiring as far as the teaching is concerned!).

[Laurie4b]

Sounds like external aesthetics are helpful to you and lack of aesthetics is distracting AND that you are pretty theologically conservative. You may like Presbyterian Church USA or the Anglican churces that are under African bishops (can't remember the right name) . You already said there weren't other Lutheran Churces around.

 

You may find, though, that you have to choose between which of those two is more important to you. Not all areas have a church with both. I love our church, but I really dislike the sanctuary's architecture (it's a "contemporary" style where you can see all the metal beams. I hate it. It distracts me, but the body of Christ there is my family, so it's worth it. I hope I could see past the architecture if I came as a visitor, but I don't know. (When I started attending the church, I was a college student and we met somewhere on campus, so I got connected to the people first...the building came later!)

[kmacnchs]

You may like Presbyterian Church USA

 

NOOOOOOOOOO!

 

OP, your upbringing sounds a lot like mine and I went to a PC USA church - the Bible was NEVER opened, stories were told and songs were sung during church. My brother and I were forced to go to the youth group by our parents. Our youth group was run by a wonderful man who was also the football coach at the HS - therefore, all of the football players and cheerleaders went to our youthgroup. BAAAAAAD NEWS!

 

So I realize every church is different and that was just my experience w/the PC USA church but I would not recommend that denomination to ANYONE! If you want to stick w/ Presby., I would go with PCA (Presbyterian Church of America). It is the conservative Presbyterian church (PC USA is TERRIBLY liberal).

[Carol in Cal.]

The Orthodox Church in America (OCA.org) is full of Americans. As are many of the other jurisdictions.

 

Asking the saints to pray for us is not an ethnic practice, but an Orthodox practice, as we believe Jesus meant it when He said, "He who believes in me will never die." So, they who are with Him know better than we how to pray...and they have time and love to do so. :0)

 

Finding an Orthodox parish is pretty easy, using this link: orthodoxyinamerica.org. You can always call ahead to find out about whether the church is an ethnic church (eg. speaking Greek or Russian or something) but of the 10 parishes I could (conceivably) drive to on a regular basis, 3 are "ethnic" (speaking Russian, Greek or Serbian).

 

Kind regards,

Patty Joanna

 

I did not mean to conflate the Orthodox practice of asking saints to pray with the somewhat common incidence of Orthodox churches having a specific ethnic focus. Thank you for correcting that.

 

In my immediate area we have three Coptic Orthodox churches, two or three Greek Orthodox churches, one Russian Orthodox church, at least one Syrian Orthodox church, and an Armenian Orthodox church. We are also fairly close to the broadly non-ethnic Orthodox church in the Santa Cruz mountains that also has a small publishing house.

[milovany]

I don't know where you live but do you have any "Bible believing" churches around you?

 

Churches that call themselves "Bible believing" typically are sola scriptura, which means they will not include the ritual and tradition that the OP mentions she likes ...... not an argument for or against this at all (this isn't the thread for that), just thought I'd mention it for information's sake.

[Carol in Cal.]

Churches that call themselves "Bible believing" typically are sola scriptura, which means they will not include the ritual and tradition that the OP mentions she likes ...... not an argument for or against this at all (this isn't the thread for that), just thought I'd mention it for information's sake.

 

Sola Scriptural means that Scripture trumps tradition where they contradict each other, not that it exists in a non-church body vaccuum and not that the Bible fell from the sky in its present form. Lutherans use the term along with two others to summarize their key teachings, but don't really use it by itself even though it sounds that way. Also, until the last few decades Lutherans retained the historic liturgy pretty univerally, although not as a rule and norm; and it is still practiced at most Lutheran churches--personally I would not attend a Lutheran church where it was not practiced.

 

You're right about the term 'Bible believing' often being a marker for non-liturgical worship, though, certainly.

[Hedgehogs4]

We are members of an Anglican Church which is part of the newly formed ACNA (Anglican Church in North America--churches that broke away from the liberal Episcopal church, ECUSA). They are orthodox in their belief, have the tradition and celebrate the church calendar as the RC and Eastern Orthodox do, and celebrate with the liturgy each week. They are true to the gospel.

 

I'd look into that if you're interested. it has been a great fit for our family.

[Manamana]

My experience with searching for new churches is that until you visit at least a few times you will never truly know the heart of the congregation. Congregations vary greatly even within a denomination.

 

We have attended thriving PCUSA churches and dead PCUSA churches. In our current location, small town in the Pacific Northwest, the Catholic church thrives and the Baptist church is also growing. There are also a few stronger non-denominational churches.

 

I would just, if you can, make a list of 3 churches you think you might like to try attending and visit them for a few weeks to get a feel for the congregations, style of worship, etc. Don't be shy about asking questions and be sure to stay after the service and talk to people. That is the only way you will get to know the people. And, meet with the pastors if you can.

[Happy2BaMom]

...we were ELCA Lutheran. Much about the Lutheran church was right up my alley. I read, approved, and liked their social position statements, the history (how can you not respect Martin Luther?), the churches. Then all of the mentioned changes came about, and it was all a bit much for me. I understand that Scripture can be interpreted in different ways, but there's a limit, and I think the ELCA went past it.

 

So we explored, looked, and ended up with the United Methodist Church. Some churches are more conservative than others, and you have to find one that feels like a fit, but they hold some of the same thoughtful stances as the original ELCA without having thrown out the baby with the bath water. For instance, they allow anyone to be a full member of the congregation, regardless of sexuality or relationship status, but gay marriage/gay ministers are "incompatible with Christian teaching" and, as such, are barred. At least I feel there is integrity there.

 

I don't think you would be comfortable in a really conservative church. You mentioned that you support civil unions for gays, and that you like/support your gay friends. Many conservative churches teach (very strongly) that homosexuals go to hell, and that the U.S. is wrong for allowing them public support for anything.

 

Also, be aware that Wisconsin Synod is WAAAYYYY conservative - women can't speak in church, etc.

 

However, I think it is great that so many people have offered you information. I pray that you find something that feels like a fit...I know from experience just how challenging that can be to find.

[Guest hrogero]

If you are in the DC area, we would love to invite you to ours.

[ubermomto5]

this may sound silly but have you had a church in mind and then prayed about it? i find that's where i get my answers.

[May]

We are Lutherans-MO Synod. May I suggest you check out our synod's web site lcms.org. It gives lots of good information and you may have many of your questions anwers.

[Teachin'Mine]

I think it's wonderful that you're searching! I agree that it's so important to share faith within the family. Pray on this, and I'll keep you in my prayers as you discern. :)

[iwka]

To the original poster:

 

I'm sorry but what do you expect people to tell you here? Pick my church, bc it has good kids program, or pick my b. it has great hymns?

 

Maybe trying to find the truth would help in finding the right church? Otherwise it's a pick and choose (buffet) style spirituality suiting your wants and needs, i.e. serving an American consumerism style society, where everybody is right, bc everything is relevant.

 

God help us, if that is how people think about their "religion" now days. :confused:

[milovany]

To the original poster:

 

I'm sorry but what do you expect people to tell you here? Pick my church, bc it has good kids program, or pick my b. it has great hymns?

 

Maybe trying to find the truth would help in finding the right church? Otherwise it's a pick and choose (buffet) style spirituality suiting your wants and needs, i.e. serving an American consumerism style society, where everybody is right, bc everything is relevant.

 

God help us, if that is how people think about their "religion" now days. :confused:

 

Some good points. Some of the best advice we ever got was from a former pastor of ours -- he told us to find the church that we think is the New Testament church and go there. In saying it that way, he meant what you describe above -- "decide what you think the New Testament church should be like" (ie, pick and choose based on your beliefs and preferences). But as we made this last change, we really did follow the more "pure" version of his advice. You have some good words of advice. I think of the scripture that calls the church the "pillar and foundation of truth". Find that pillar and foundation.

[King Alfred Academy]

We are members of an Anglican Church which is part of the newly formed ACNA (Anglican Church in North America--churches that broke away from the liberal Episcopal church, ECUSA). They are orthodox in their belief, have the tradition and celebrate the church calendar as the RC and Eastern Orthodox do, and celebrate with the liturgy each week. They are true to the gospel.

 

I'd look into that if you're interested. it has been a great fit for our family.

 

Same with us. Our parish in TN was one of the first to leave. Now I live in the same town as Caraway in CA <waving HI!> and there are NO ACNA churches nearby. She isn't kidding when she says "We live in a very liberal area. There are LOTS of UU type church experiences. We do not have any local churches with that grand traditional feel or sense of history." Needless to say, we haven't found a church "home" yet and we've been here for almost 2 years.

 

Anyhow, Caraway...if you happen to be at park day on Friday, we can chat more about it then. I may have a few ideas for you. If not, I'll get a hold of you another way! :001_smile: Here is the site to a Reformed Episcopal Church we have visited a few time.

[iwka]

Some good points. Some of the best advice we ever got was from a former pastor of ours -- he told us to find the church that we think is the New Testament church and go there. In saying it that way, he meant what you describe above -- "decide what you think the New Testament church should be like" (ie, pick and choose based on your beliefs and preferences). But as we made this last change, we really did follow the more "pure" version of his advice. You have some good words of advice. I think of the scripture that calls the church the "pillar and foundation of truth". Find that pillar and foundation.

 

It is harder and harder to know how to reason and find an objective truth. :001_smile: Western society is not trained any longer in logical thinking (not to confuse with common sense or "critical thinking" or logic curricula disjoined from one's worldview and faith).

[Caraway]

To the original poster:

 

I'm sorry but what do you expect people to tell you here? Pick my church, bc it has good kids program, or pick my b. it has great hymns?

 

Maybe trying to find the truth would help in finding the right church? Otherwise it's a pick and choose (buffet) style spirituality suiting your wants and needs, i.e. serving an American consumerism style society, where everybody is right, bc everything is relevant.

 

God help us, if that is how people think about their "religion" now days. :confused:

 

 

This seems harsh. Especially since part of my post explained that it was this "buffet" style that was making it difficult for me to find a church.

 

I think that those who have grown up with the church or with faith, or at least around those things, have a difficult time imagining what it is like to NOT come from that background. Even now as an adult I do not know anyone who attends a church (involving God) on a regular basis except for my MIL who is non-denominational and not what I want to emulate.

 

It is difficult to lay claim to a heritage that you feel does not belong to you. It is even more difficult IME to judge that heritage.

 

The few interactions that I have had with religion are tangled up with fallible adults. It is had to judge righteousness of doctrine when my brain keeps screaming "yeah, but those people weren't like that!"

 

I posted here because it helped to write it all out. And because I am questioning if it is more important to find a church I like or a denomination that I agree with. That perspective is easier if you have been involved in church for a while, or switched churches, as many people here have.

 

Many people just go where their parents went. Or the church close to their house. Have you ever tried to research doctrine, denominations, and individual churches??? What the denominations claim is (around here) NOT what the churches are preaching. So how does someone like me make sense of that, or understand it?

 

Just as you go to a doctor and describe your symptoms so that he may say "well it could be x, y, or z, but it is certainly not a" it is helpful to have those with some perspective narrow my search. I do not have the fortitude to visit every Presbyterian church within driving distance to see if they ever refer to the Bible.

 

I live in California, and church issues seem to just be different here. You google "church controversy" and more often than not it is a local church. It certainly distorts the issues to be surrounded by people who are pushing the boundaries. It is not like I can put what I believe into google and then tack on my address and say "and nice people, a children's program, and please no clergy in tie-dye".

 

I guess I posted here because I need someone to say that they had been where I am now, and they had found something that worked for them. They had found a church.

 

I needed encouragement, and many people were able to offer that to me. So to all who helped - thank you.

[Caraway]

Anyhow, Caraway...if you happen to be at park day on Friday, we can chat more about it then. I may have a few ideas for you. If not, I'll get a hold of you another way! :001_smile: Here is the site to a Reformed Episcopal Church we have visited a few time.

 

:seeya: Thanks for the link. I actually looked at that church. It cracked me up that they self identify as being in the strip mall next to Fitness 19. I think that I need to move to Europe! :lol:

[Susie in SWVA]

Where are you located?

[Liz CA]

I am reading the Bible, and I would be happy to participate in Bible Study. I am fine providing my own internal structure.

 

However I struggle with churches who say "Well, the Bible say A, but it really means B." Or "The Bible says C, but we just ignore that part".

 

It sounds like a straightforward Bible believing non-denominational church would be a good fit. There are many individual churches out there. I mean they are not necessarily part of a larger organization, i.e Baptists or Methodists. You may find some of these by looking through the Yellow Pages of your local phone book. You can call and ask a few questions such as: "Do you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God and holds true for today?" They should be able to give you a clear answer.

[i.love.lucy]

This seems harsh. Especially since part of my post explained that it was this "buffet" style that was making it difficult for me to find a church.

 

I think that those who have grown up with the church or with faith, or at least around those things, have a difficult time imagining what it is like to NOT come from that background. Even now as an adult I do not know anyone who attends a church (involving God) on a regular basis except for my MIL who is non-denominational and not what I want to emulate.

 

It is difficult to lay claim to a heritage that you feel does not belong to you. It is even more difficult IME to judge that heritage.

 

The few interactions that I have had with religion are tangled up with fallible adults. It is had to judge righteousness of doctrine when my brain keeps screaming "yeah, but those people weren't like that!"

 

I posted here because it helped to write it all out. And because I am questioning if it is more important to find a church I like or a denomination that I agree with. That perspective is easier if you have been involved in church for a while, or switched churches, as many people here have.

 

Many people just go where their parents went. Or the church close to their house. Have you ever tried to research doctrine, denominations, and individual churches??? What the denominations claim is (around here) NOT what the churches are preaching. So how does someone like me make sense of that, or understand it?

 

Just as you go to a doctor and describe your symptoms so that he may say "well it could be x, y, or z, but it is certainly not a" it is helpful to have those with some perspective narrow my search. I do not have the fortitude to visit every Presbyterian church within driving distance to see if they ever refer to the Bible.

 

I live in California, and church issues seem to just be different here. You google "church controversy" and more often than not it is a local church. It certainly distorts the issues to be surrounded by people who are pushing the boundaries. It is not like I can put what I believe into google and then tack on my address and say "and nice people, a children's program, and please no clergy in tie-dye".

 

I guess I posted here because I need someone to say that they had been where I am now, and they had found something that worked for them. They had found a church.

 

I needed encouragement, and many people were able to offer that to me. So to all who helped - thank you.

Oh, I can so feel you here! I'm from CA and we found a small non-denom church up north but I was a kid and don't really know if doctrinally I would agree with them now. When dh and I moved back there after several years in the South we never did find a church...at all. It was a major contributing factor to us wanting to move. Now I see that there are some churches in the LA area I would probably like, but everything is so spread out there you don't really want to have to drive an hour and a half for church.

 

You ask if anyone has ever researched doctrine and denominations. YES! DH was born and raised Southern Baptist, I was non-denom. Then we found the Dark Side (meaning Calvinist/Reformed) and had to search high and low here for a church. We researched Presbyterian, different associations of Baptist, etc. We finally found one that we adore. We hear solid, sound biblical teaching from the pulpit every Sunday and we just love it. It's about 35 minutes from our house, so no, we didn't just go to the church down the street. We left the mega-church down the street for it's Seeker Sensitive/Emergent practices that we finally woke up and recognized.

 

I will pray for you to find the right fit. It is no easy task and I really feel for you! :grouphug:

[LG Gone Wild]

How about reading Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis? You've already decided to find a church but since your religious experience is somewhat jaded, this book might help gain insight on what direction you want to go. It's a nice read (I have it on audiobook). It doesn't favor one type of Christianity over another.

 

 

FWIW, I vote RC. I enjoyed Catholicism for Dummies and you can compare your notes based on your experience with what you read from the book. Easy, pleasant read as well.

 

You have to pray and search for THE truth. It can't work, won't work if you go about looking for a church that fits around your preconceived notions (whatever they might be).