Rising 9th Grader Way Behind In Math!

[ElizabethAnn]

I am in desperate need for some good math advice. My son is supposed to be starting 9th grade this fall and he is struggling through TT prealg. This is a very long story and I take full blame for him being so behind. He is very bright and when explained a math concept thoroughly he learns it quickly. The problem is that both my husband and I are horrible at math. I have switched math curriculum on and off throughout the years. We have used Saxon 5/4,6/5,and half of 7/6. Every time we have used Saxon we have been unsuccessful,but I felt secure with it and kept going back to it to try and make it work.At the beginning of this year(8th grade) I bought a copy of Lial's BCM with the goal of using this as a prealg. text and having him ready to start Alg. 1 in 9th grade,but he didn't do well with the format. I then went back to Saxon 7/6 unsuccessfully. After much research and a pre-test I ordered TT prealg. thinking that TT would be able to teach where I fell short. I know that many say that TT is behind other math programs ,but I thought that if he was successful with it and stayed with their sequence all the way through, that he would cover everything he needed albeit in a slower progression. Well, he is becoming very confused with this program. He says that the terminology is different then he has learned in the past,and he is being taught a different way of problem solving then Saxon taught him. Now,we're at the end of 8th grade,and he still has not completed prealg. I want to cry as I'm writing this! I was on the verge of enrolling him in school next year because I've messed him up so badly in math. Now I'm trying to decide if we should continue with TT and get him a tutor over the summer,or use something else. I have Saxon 8/7 w/prealg. ,but he never made it past the middle of Saxon 7/6. He has successfully used the Key To books,so I thought maybe he could work through those. My question is,can I possibly have him work through prealg. over the summer and have him ready for alg. 1 for 9th grade? His problem seems to be with decimals and fractions.What should I use? There is a good private school here that allows homeschoolers to take individual courses. I would like him to start taking math at the school and they use BJ Alg.1 for 9th and BJ math all the way through hs. So, I really need to use a traditional math text. Would the Key To books be enough? I am even considering holding him back a grade because he is sooooo behind in math. Any advice you can give me would be very much appreciated. I feel very desperate at this point. Thank you.:confused:

[Guest KaciMI]

is 13 and 1/2. I am backing him up in math by starting him with Christian Light Education (CLE)math 4th grade. This was recommended by several moms on this forum. It is similar to Saxon only in notebook form.

 

Sometimes backing up and starting over works faster than working through where he is struggling.

 

He later admitted to listening to TT on fast speed. No wonder he had struggles!

Edited May 16, 2010 by KaciMI

[ElizabethAnn]

Thank you so much for replying. Can I ask ,what grade is your son in? I am familiar with Christian Light. I have used them before and was very happy with them,but I think he needs some kind of video instruction. I am completely lost when it comes to teaching him math.:001_huh:

[Jean in Wisc]

I don't have a solution for you, but you might want to know that my oldest child finished pre-alg in 9th grade. She is a senior in college with a 4.0.

 

My 2nd child finished pre-alg in 9th grade. He is in Engineering...not a 4.0, but doing well.

 

My 3rd child was doing Alg I in 9th (YES!)...and then he had spine surgery and got behind. He's about a semester behind in math like my other 2. :glare:

 

So, my advice is to just keep on plugging...although I do suggest you choose whichever text you want to use and stay there. Changing programs once they are in Algebra is tough.

 

I've used a half dozen math programs. My dd loved Lial's. My son loved Chalkdust. I think, though, that I love Teaching Textbooks. LOL!

 

Jean

[ElizabethAnn]

Thanks Jean,

I feel very encouraged after reading your post. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one. I always thought that if you didn't follow a certain sequence that you were limiting their choices. Although I do know that this is true to a certain extent, I can see through your children's success that this is not always the case. God Bless You!

[dragons in the flower bed]

I would have him work on ALEKS because it will continually test to see what he most needs to work on and supply him with tutoring and drill in that area, aaaall the way back to the middle school fractions, decimals and percents stuff. But I would also have him go through a traditional text since you state that he needs that.

[ElizabethAnn]

I was just looking at Aleks this afternoon. Do you think that this can be used alone? I honestly don't know which math text to use. I also am looking at the Key to Books,and I know that they have a website that tracks the students progress. Thank you so much for your reply!:001_smile:

[Teachin'Mine]

If you can get him a tutor, that might be invaluable help to him in understanding whatever it is that he's missing with decimals and fractions. To go into Algebra without first understanding them thoroughly would be a mistake, in my opinion. A math tutor could work with him through whatever text you all decide to use, and help him to make some forward motion, which will probably involve going backward at the beginning. Maybe with a tutor from now through the summer, and doing math year round, you'd be able to get him on track in a couple of years. But from the other posts, it sounds like being in pre-algebra in 9th can still get the students where they need to be in the end. :)

[Wendi]

My ds is 13. He's finishing up 7th grade. I have signed him up to take TT Pre-Algebra at co-op next year (8th grade). To meet the graduation requirements in our state, ds needs 4 math credits, which must be at least Algebra, Geometry, Algebra II, and something beyond Algebra II (Trigonometry, etc.). So I am stressing out that if he struggles too much next year, and can't keep up, he will be behind the requirements.

 

He has always struggled with math. He's been using ALEKS this year, and I do think it's helped. I also bought the Teaching Company Basic Math DVDs, and I hope to watch as many as possible with ds over the summer, and practice the skills taught.

 

Wendi

[at the beach]

Have you considered getting him the Key to Fractions, Decimals and Percents? They are supposed to be very good. You could also get Key to Algebra, which I have heard some folks use as a pre-algebra program. Then, using those in conjunction with TT might help. I would just slow way down and go back. I believe TT does not always have enough review in it, so that might be what is tripping him up.

[Kim in SouthGa]

I feel your pain...my just turned 14ds has been working on Chalkdust PreAlgebra for over a year, and we are still on Ch. 6! But I refuse to let him move on until I'm sure he gets it. I have been trying to decide the same thing...should we ditch CD and get Key to... or something else. I finally decided to just finish the best we could, and we are switching to Kinetic Algebra 1 for next year. Have you seen the post someone put up with the link to the guy with all the YouTube videos? http://www.khanacademy.org/

He seems to get rave reviews. We are going to watch some of the videos for my sons weak areas. I am really looking forward to using Kinetic books. Math is a huge struggle for my son, and this program goes at it in such an innovative way. I'm praying it will work for him.

[Lizzie in Ma]

I wouldn't be overly stressed about the timing. I really, really wouldn't be trying to "catch up".

 

I think your goal, as I understand it, is to help him understand the math that he is doing so that he is able to move on. While certain math sequences are certainly optimal if that isn't where your son is, then it isn't where he is. The goal is to learn it well. So do whatever you need to do and don't sweat the timing.

 

I liked the CLE recommendation, it is straightforward and rigorous. If you feel he needs dvd instruction, perhaps you could go with BJU's pre-algebra? Or a DIVE cd. I don't know what is best for your son, but you will. :grouphug:

[Laurie4b]

If you can't teach math and he can't learn on his own, then you have to outsource it. There is no way around that. I would do it now--don't keep trying this and that because I don't think you're going to find the magic key (as you've seen). High school homeschool is much more difficult than middle school and under and it's a rare person who can do it without outsourcing. There is just no substitute for an IRL person who truly understands math.

 

I would recommend that you get him a tutor over the summer (a few times a week to catch him up in prealgebra), and to oversee his math this coming year, meeting with him at least once per week.

 

You've said that he's bright in math and so you don't want to cut off possibilities for his future because of what you were not able to provide. If he doesn't start algebra in 9th grade, some of those possibilities likely will be cut off. (Many colleges require something beyond Algebra II--certainly the more selective ones do. Of the selective ones, most require a course beyond Precalculus. If he has potential in math for something like engineering, he should have calculus in high school.)

 

Having a once-a-week tutor means that a course like TT or Chalkdust can work because there is someone as an IRL back up who understands math and can explain it to him.

 

Our family used Chalkdust through Precalculus successfully, BUT I had two kids who could "get it" on their own most of the time AND I had access to some IRL people who could sit down with them and explain it when they hit a snag. One of my ds's needed a Precalc tutor just to hold him accountable because I couldn't really understand the work well enough to grade it.

 

We also ended up needing IRL tutors with an online math course we signed up for despite a really good online teacher. They just needed a person IN person to explain some things.

 

One thing I've been able to do with (going on 3 math tutors now) is to trade my ds's labor for their tutoring: lawn-mowing, yard work, lifting, etc. has been eagerly accepted in barter for tutoring. The tutors felt they were getting the better end of the deal. My boys are "working their way through high school, LOL!

 

Otherwise, expect to pay about $35 per hour for tutoring.

[Jean in Wisc]

Thanks Jean,

I always thought that if you didn't follow a certain sequence that you were limiting their choices.

 

There is truth in this, but if a child is not a wiz in math, it is not likely that pushing him hard to get through calculus before college is going to allow him to get his doctorate in nuclear physics. If math is hard and he wants to go into a mathy field, then he has to work hard and do whatever he can do...and face the music.

 

My son really struggled in math. His senior year it come a bit easier for him--maturity? Chalkdust? Don't know. So now he has set his heart on becoming an engineer. His strengths are English and history, but his love is not there...so he took precalc in college and he will take 5 years getting through the program instead of 4. He's O.K. with that since it is what he wants to do.

 

So yeah--he would have had a heard time getting into the best of the best engineering program...but he's not the best of the best. Reality goes hand in hand with accomplishment.

 

So...no big deal if the child can't get through all the math imo. It's reality. At least, that is how I see it.

 

Jean

[Julie of KY]

Get someone to help you figure out what he understands and doesn't understand. It's really hard to make real recommendations without seeing how he really does math. Listen to your tutor and don't be afraid to back way up. If he's good at math, he pick up any foundational concepts quickly with a tutor. Wherever he is, he needs a solid foundation before moving on. It may be that the foundation is great and he just needs someone to explain things where he is now.

[Mostlyamom]

There are a number of threads on this board about taking an extra year in high school, and just this past week talked to two different middle school parents who are planning an extra 8th grade (or 7th grade) year for their sons who need more maturity before high school. There is such a wide variation in maturity level at this age, and further brain development with just one more year to work on it may completely solve many of the problems in understanding these math concepts.

 

Also, I think there is motivation for students in not getting just "passed along" from grade to grade, but realizing they need to "earn" it. I think it requires a lot of love to be willing to "hold back" a student who needs more time working on a particular skill, too.

 

I don't think kids grow in a linear way, do you?

 

Mostlyamom

[Musicmom]

I am in desperate need for some good math advice. My son is supposed to be starting 9th grade this fall and he is struggling through TT prealg. This is a very long story and I take full blame for him being so behind. He is very bright and when explained a math concept thoroughly he learns it quickly. The problem is that both my husband and I are horrible at math. I have switched math curriculum on and off throughout the years. We have used Saxon 5/4,6/5,and half of 7/6. Every time we have used Saxon we have been unsuccessful,but I felt secure with it and kept going back to it to try and make it work.At the beginning of this year(8th grade) I bought a copy of Lial's BCM with the goal of using this as a prealg. text and having him ready to start Alg. 1 in 9th grade,but he didn't do well with the format. I then went back to Saxon 7/6 unsuccessfully. After much research and a pre-test I ordered TT prealg. thinking that TT would be able to teach where I fell short. I know that many say that TT is behind other math programs ,but I thought that if he was successful with it and stayed with their sequence all the way through, that he would cover everything he needed albeit in a slower progression. Well, he is becoming very confused with this program. He says that the terminology is different then he has learned in the past,and he is being taught a different way of problem solving then Saxon taught him. Now,we're at the end of 8th grade,and he still has not completed prealg. I want to cry as I'm writing this! I was on the verge of enrolling him in school next year because I've messed him up so badly in math. Now I'm trying to decide if we should continue with TT and get him a tutor over the summer,or use something else. I have Saxon 8/7 w/prealg. ,but he never made it past the middle of Saxon 7/6. He has successfully used the Key To books,so I thought maybe he could work through those. My question is,can I possibly have him work through prealg. over the summer and have him ready for alg. 1 for 9th grade? His problem seems to be with decimals and fractions.What should I use? There is a good private school here that allows homeschoolers to take individual courses. I would like him to start taking math at the school and they use BJ Alg.1 for 9th and BJ math all the way through hs. So, I really need to use a traditional math text. Would the Key To books be enough? I am even considering holding him back a grade because he is sooooo behind in math. Any advice you can give me would be very much appreciated. I feel very desperate at this point. Thank you.:confused:

 

Hi ElizabethAnn!

 

First of all, :grouphug: Take a deep breath... it will be all right. Here is another possibility for you to consider. I also have a math-bright son, and we used Videotext Algebra for him. I notice the programs you mentioned your son struggling with are all spiral-method programs (except maybe Lial's, which I'm not familiar with at all.) My ds did a spiral program for one year in 4th grade and did not do well at all with math that year, which was baffling as I knew he was math-smart. For some reason, it just seemed to turn his brain off. We switched to a mastery program (Singapore) the next year and after some significant backtracking, he got back up to speed.

 

Videotext Algebra is a 2-year (usually) program that starts with pre-algebra in the first module and then moves into algebra in the 2nd module. By the time you complete all 6 modules, it has covered pre-algebra, algebra I & II, and the remaining algebra topics that normally get covered in pre-calculus. The video instruction is excellent and thorough, complete solutions are given for everything, and there is help available from Videotext if your child has questions or needs a little extra help. It is also quite streamlined, so even though you would typically do it over 2 years, if the child is ready to go faster, or you if continue it through the summer, the child can easily get through it in less time. If you then follow it up with Videotext Geometry (another 2 year program), that will cover all of Geometry, plus trigonometry and the remaining analytic geometry topics covered in pre-calculus. IOW, if you do all of VT Algebra and all of VT Geometry, you can claim credit for Alg I, Alg II, Geometry, and Precalculus--and you are then ready to start Calculus.

 

I would suggest, whatever algebra curriculum you decide on, that you get a tutor for your ds starting now and have the tutor work with him over the summer to get him up to speed on all his arithmetic, decimals, fractions, percents, etc--maybe using Key To, since that has worked well for him. Then in the fall, I would definitely start algebra and have him continue to work with a tutor regularly so that he can move forward as quickly as he is ready to. If he is math-bright, I suspect that at some point, he will "get it" and really take off.

 

If you went the VT Alg/Geo route, esp continuing with a tutor for support, he would easily get through Precalculus in high school. Even better, if you have him speed it up a bit when he's ready, or do a little work in the summers, he could certainly get to Calculus by his senior year. If he's headed for math/science/engineering in college, having Calculus in high school is really important.

 

While you could also turn to the school for math, my concern would be that he'd be kind of locked into their sequence, without the ability to accelerate--that could be limiting for him later on. You'd want to keep a careful eye on it, continue with a tutor and be ready to pull him out and accelerate if need be.

 

Just my 2 cents...

[dragons in the flower bed]

I was just looking at Aleks this afternoon. Do you think that this can be used alone? I honestly don't know which math text to use. I also am looking at the Key to Books,and I know that they have a website that tracks the students progress. Thank you so much for your reply!:001_smile:

 

For a little while, when you're remediating, it can used alone. For finding out exactly which concepts and skills a child has missed, it can't be beat. For reteaching and drilling those concepts, it's very good. Try the free month. Even if you decide not to use it, you'll know precisely which skills your child needs help with.

[Teachin'Mine]

Do you have a college nearby? Maybe you could call the mathematics department and see if they could recommend a student to work with your son this summer. The cost should be less, and would allow him more time with the tutor. I think any money you spend on a tutor for him will be money well spent.

 

I also agree that there's nothing wrong with doing another year of pre-high school to allow him to get up to speed in math. Maybe there's other subjects that he'd like more time to explore more on his own before the rigors of high school.

[ElizabethAnn]

Thank you so much for all your replies! You have been a great help and a blessing to me. :001_smile:You have all given me some good options to think about. One thing that I do have to clarify is that I would not consider my son math bright, just an overall quick learner. He is very good in english,and he's a great writer. I would be very surprised if he majored in math or science. He wants to be a writer ,and possibly do something in the english field. I just don't want to limit him in anyway.

 

I have alot of work ahead of me this summer. First,I think I am going to try Aleks to assess his weak points. Then,I have to decide which math curr. to use. Chosing the right program is going to be tough because I can't pinpoint what the problem is with any of them. Saxon seemed okay at first,then it would slowly go down hill. I'm not sure if it is the spiral method that is the problem or not. I don't think he even knows what the problem is. TT looked like the answer to all my problems,until he started complaining about how confusing their way of teaching is. :001_huh:

 

I actually sat him down one day at the computer and had him look at ALL his options and give me his input. He said that the program that he thought he would learn best with was Math U See. I have heard great things about Math U see,but do I really want to throw another curr. into the mix that I have absolutely no experience with? From what I understand, Math U See does not have video instruction. If I stay with TT prealg. the sequence is so different than other programs,that he would have a very hard time with math in a private school if we ever went that route.

 

There is a good private school in our area that we were considering that allows homeschoolers to attend part-time. I would like him to take math at this school since it is becoming increasingly harder for me to help him with math. The program they use is BJ math. I looked at the BJ prealg. and it is much harder then the TT prealg. So, I looked at the BJ math book a level lower( Fundamentals of Math) and it looks like a good fit,but I would have to order the DVD which is very expensive. He would also then be more behind then I origionally thought. Regardless, I want to do what would be best for him even if that means going all the way back. However, If the problem can be remedied by using the key to books and having him work with a tutor rather then starting over with a new program , I think that is the route I will take.

 

If the curr. is truely the poblem,then I will definitely have to look at my other choices. Videotext sounds like it could be a good option if the others can not be used ,and I will definitely be looking into that. I know that Christian Light is a great choice, but I need the video instruction. No matter which program I chose, there will definitely be tutoring over the summer.

 

Thank you again for all your responses. You have no idea what an encouragement you have been!

Edited May 17, 2010 by ElizabethAnn

[Guest MamaBear10]

Here is my suggestion and I truly hope it helps.

 

Finish prealg. over the summer, and when the time comes around to use Alg. 1, use Math U See. You said your son needs to see a problem fully explained, well Math U See does just that. My oldest uses it for Algebra II and loves it. She is the same way. She needs to see the math in order to do it. Compared to other video math, it is only $100 for everything you need.

 

It works wonderfully, and it is so much cheaper than other math programs that use video.

 

Good luck!

[ElizabethAnn]

Hi MamaBear,

 

Thank you for your suggestion. Do you think that Math U See can be used even if I can not explain or teach math? This is the reason why I am always looking at math curr. that is written to the student and has video instruction. Your advice is greatly appreciated!

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Hi MamaBear,

 

Thank you for your suggestion. Do you think that Math U See can be used even if I can not explain or teach math? This is the reason why I am always looking at math curr. that is written to the student and has video instruction. Your advice is greatly appreciated!

I'm not MammaBear but can answer your question. Yes, MUS can be used even if you can't teach. When the student is older he can watch the DVD's by himself and look through the teacher's notes, though I still think the parent should do those things with the student if at all possible.

[5KidzRUs]

If you can get him a tutor' date=' that might be invaluable help to him in understanding whatever it is that he's missing with decimals and fractions. :)[/quote']

 

I agree with this! My son was struggling (not interested - ok, i was struggling to keep him interested in it enough to finish a text) in math and we hired a very smart and pleasant math tutor. $30 an hour is what we paid and she was worth every dime. She taught him TT Algebra 1 and then tutored him through College Algebra - we moved out of state after that - but not before she gave him the love and tools he needed to succeed). He earned an 89% in that college course and an A this semester in Calculus and an A in chemistry.

Before the tutor we have used and tried every curricula out there - it was not a matter of matching his learning style and text - it was a matter of motivating him to learn to love and be eager to understand math.

 

I know everyone's situation is different and our case may not be similar to yours. I hope that this coming year will be a breakthough for your family! :grouphug:

Edited May 17, 2010 by 5KidzRUs

[Brindee]

Have you seen the post someone put up with the link to the guy with all the YouTube videos? http://www.khanacademy.org/

He seems to get rave reviews. We are going to watch some of the videos for my sons weak areas. I am really looking forward to using Kinetic books. Math is a huge struggle for my son, and this program goes at it in such an innovative way. I'm praying it will work for him.

Thankyou for this link. I hadn't seen it yet. I just went there, and my dd asked what I was looking at. She ended up creating a shortcut to his site, so she has easy access to it when she needs some extra help with her math! Love it!

[ElizabethAnn]

There are a number of threads on this board about taking an extra year in high school, and just this past week talked to two different middle school parents who are planning an extra 8th grade (or 7th grade) year for their sons who need more maturity before high school. There is such a wide variation in maturity level at this age, and further brain development with just one more year to work on it may completely solve many of the problems in understanding these math concepts.

 

Also, I think there is motivation for students in not getting just "passed along" from grade to grade, but realizing they need to "earn" it. I think it requires a lot of love to be willing to "hold back" a student who needs more time working on a particular skill, too.

 

I don't think kids grow in a linear way, do you?

 

Mostlyamom

 

 

 

Thank you for your advice.I am seriously considering holding him back ,but I'm not sure if I should do this based primarily on math. Yes, he can use some extra time on grammar and writing skills. But he also is good at grammar and writes well. He likes a challenge and can handle a heavy work load. He also is very upset at even the thought of staying in 8th grade. He has been working hard all year and doesn't understand why I am considering this. An extra year would be great, and he would definitely be better prepared for HS ,but I have to consider it from all angles. :glare:

Edited May 18, 2010 by ElizabethAnn

[sgmaddox]

I have a 13 year old that is behind in math as well. But I can tell you by the God's grace alone, that I put him in CLE 6. I love it, it has helped him tremendously. He went from C's and D's to A's and B's. My plan is to use Math Relief and CLE 7. The beauty with CLE is that you can purchase a couple of workbooks at a time to see if it works for him.

[Teachin'Mine]

You can always just call it another junior high year, and allow him to take a couple, or a few, courses which will go on his high school transcript. Or call it your first year of high school, and let him take some jr. high courses and tell him you're going to be doing a five year high school curriculum. Or call it a four year program with a built in gap year - whatever would sound acceptable to him. This would give him more time for whatever interests him, also more time for a job, for volunteer work ...