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A few threads about spelling and journaling have me wondering if I'm going about my daughter's writing all wrong.

 

The *only* writing that my daughter does is spelling and journaling.

 

Some threads have me thinking that my daughter doesn't need to do spelling. She is a natural speller and makes very few spelling errors. Although her spelling could use improvement, she spells above grade level and would probably improve even without using a spelling program. Thus, a spelling program is a waste of our time and I should drop it.

 

In other threads, I keep reading how journaling is bad and unnecessary. Since my daughter doesn't like journalling, I shouldn't require it.

 

But if I drop spelling and journaling my daughter wouldn't be doing any writing at all!!!! That doesn't seem right. Between spelling and journalling, she writes 6-8 sentences, or about two short paragraphs, per day (with very few errors). I can't go from that to nothing.

 

Should I drop spelling and journaling and start a writing program? I want to do cross-curricular writing eventually, but I don't know how or where to start, especially since we aren't even doing history, science, or literature right now.

 

Should I keep doing what I'm doing (spelling and journaling), even if it is a waste of time, because I am comfortable with it and DD is young (6 years old / 1st grade)?

 

Something else?

Edited by Kuovonne
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I don't think a six year old needs to be writing very much. You don't say how her handwriting is, but I assume that is fine for her age and you are not worrying about the physical act of writing things down?

 

If you feel she just ought to be writing something, I'd go for a different approach if she doesn't like journaling. Some kids do; some don't. In my opinion six is too young to be writing something you really resist or don't enjoy. There are a number of options.

 

Peggy Kaye's Games For Writing book has some wonderful activities you can share with your child. Some are oral; some are dictated; some are cooperatively written; and some the child writes herself. You can pick and choose. They are meant to bring some pleasure back into the whole idea of writing and they do a great job. They also suggest ways to incorporate writing into everyday life rather than have it be a "school" subject.

 

Families Writing (by Peter Stillman)

Don't Forget to Write (by a group of teachers and writers)

If You're Trying to Teach a Kid to Write, You've Got to Have This Book (by Marjorie Frank)

 

These other books also put a spin of some type on writing assignments; they're fun, short, and engaging.

 

A second option is to keep the journal idea, but open it up to your daughter's current interests. At various points my daughter kept a "Wonder Book" in which she dictated or wrote questions she had about anything and everything, an artist's notebook of sketches, a science idea notebook, and a commonplace book: a book of favorite quotes from books we read together. She also drew pictures of her favorite book of the week and gradually began to write titles, character names, postcards to and from characters, and then later, reviews. You can gear a notebook or journal to just about any interest, including animal watching, the insides of machines, lists of birds you see in the back yard, weather records, menus or recipes with lots of pictures and tasting notes, anything and everything. It can include as many pictures as she likes and a varying amount of words. You can share the writing: take turns, or have her dictate longer entries. There's no need to keep a personal, emotional journal or daily account of her life if that is not an appealing option for a young child.

 

What both these approaches do is move gradually toward your goal of cross-curricular writing by opening up the idea that writing happens at multiple points during the day, for multiple purposes, relating to multiple subjects (these do not have to be formal subjects).

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I don't think a six year old needs to be writing very much.

 

I agree, a six year old doesn't need to be writing very much. However, my six year old currently writes this much, expects to write this much, and does so with few mechanical errors, and without any writing specific resistance. It would be a shame to reduce the amount of writing she does just because she is six. (After all, this is the accelerated board.)

 

You don't say how her handwriting is, but I assume that is fine for her age and you are not worrying about the physical act of writing things down?

 

Her handwriting is better than my husband's ;-). I'm not at all worried about the physical act of writing. If she knows what words to write, she has no problems committing them to paper. She never complains about her hand being tired, only about not knowing what to write.

 

If you feel she just ought to be writing something,

 

Yes, I feel she should continue to write (handwrite), even if we drop spelling and journaling, given her current output level.

 

I'd go for a different approach if she doesn't like journaling. Some kids do; some don't. In my opinion six is too young to be writing something you really resist or don't enjoy.

 

She doesn't resist journaling; she just doesn't like it when she can't think of something to write. She does her journal more out of habit more than anything else.

 

There are a number of options.

 

Thanks for the book suggestions. I'll have to look into them.

 

A second option is to keep the journal idea, but open it up to your daughter's current interests.

 

When writing in her journal, she gets to write about whatever she wants. I don't give her writing prompts, and I don't make corrections. Sometimes she makes up stories; sometimes she writes about something from real life. It's by no means a "personal, emotional journal or daily account". I'll have to think how I might morph her current journal into what you're describing.

 

What both these approaches do is move gradually toward your goal of cross-curricular writing by opening up the idea that writing happens at multiple points during the day, for multiple purposes, relating to multiple subjects (these do not have to be formal subjects).

 

Thanks for the lengthy answer.

Edited by Kuovonne
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Something else?
DD the Elder did a fair bit of copywork (I required 10 minutes per day, but she often did more), starting at six and increasing in output at seven. I printed up public domain works in our font of choice (Getty-Dubay), and she copied them. Particularly enjoyable were some of the Just So Stories. She also writes poems and stories for pleasure.
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DD the Elder did a fair bit of copywork (I required 10 minutes per day, but she often did more), starting at six and increasing in output at seven. I printed up public domain works in our font of choice (Getty-Dubay), and she copied them. Particularly enjoyable were some of the Just So Stories. She also writes poems and stories for pleasure.

 

Sigh. DD hates doing copywork. (I've offered to *pay* her for copywork, and she still won't do it.) She'd pick doing a journal over copywork every time. Plus, I don't see much benefit of doing copywork instead of spelling/dictation.

 

I'd love it if DD wrote poems and stories for pleasure. She's constantly coming up with poems and rhymes. I gave her a special book just to write her poems in, but she hardly ever does.

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Plus, I don't see much benefit of doing copywork instead of spelling/dictation.
If she hates it, she hates it. But copywork does have its benefits beyond penmanship practice. I chose rich vocabulary prose and poetry, with words I wouldn't have expected her to spell were we doing dictation. There was also the added benefit of not having to be involved other than in initially obtaining and printing the text. DD the Elder bound the stories when she finished, and likened it to doing work in a scriptorium.
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DD the Elder did a fair bit of copywork (I required 10 minutes per day, but she often did more), starting at six and increasing in output at seven. I printed up public domain works in our font of choice (Getty-Dubay), and she copied them. Particularly enjoyable were some of the Just So Stories. She also writes poems and stories for pleasure.

 

 

Do you have a link for this? We use Getty-Dubay italic, and so far I have just been handwriting quotes and such for him to copy. It would be so much easier to be able to print them out!

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Do you have a link for this? We use Getty-Dubay italic, and so far I have just been handwriting quotes and such for him to copy. It would be so much easier to be able to print them out!
I purchased the font from Educational Fontware and did them myself in Word, using text from Gutenberg and various poetry sites. I know some balk at the $50 price, but it includes a program that actually joins the letters when doing linked italics, and I've certainly got my money's worth out of it.
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I agree, a six year old doesn't need to be writing very much. However, my six year old currently writes this much, expects to write this much, and does so with few mechanical errors, and without any writing specific resistance. It would be a shame to reduce the amount of writing she does just because she is six. (After all, this is the accelerated board.)

 

Knowing when to push and when to back off is the hardest part of homeschooling, much less of parenting. It is even more difficult when you add the "accelerated" label to your child and her work.

 

It sounds to me like your dd has a wonderful gift to be able to express herself with paper and pencil. Don't push it, try to relax, and instead be encouraging -- which it sounds like you are doing already. Incorporate some of Karen's ideas of collecting quotes or writing out questions. Get some books on calligraphy or on secret codes or hieroglyphs and let her play with those instead of journaling (like being a medieval scribe). In other words, keep writing and creating something fun -- don't turn it into a task of drudgery. Let her enjoy this time free from writing assignments so she doesn't turn that creative tap off when it comes time to churn out essays in high school.

 

And if she flat out refuses to write some days, do something else and don't worry about it. Just because she is "accelerated" doesn't mean she always has to do more than other 6 year olds. This is an extreme example, but if your dd were to suddenly flat out refuse to write ANYTHING for the next 3 years, she wouldn't be behind, wouldn't regress -- she'd probably start writing again at a more advanced level because her cognitive development will continue with or without daily writing.

 

You can be the one to jot down her stories and rhymes, so you have them to remember. She is playing with language -- let her play, enjoy her creative spark, just don't make it a school assignment. And I hear you, understand your frustration! Just pace yourself, too, on your expectations and frustrations because you have another 12 years of this ahead of you, and mommy burn out can be a big problem, too!

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At your daughter's age I wouldn't require too much writing. If she enjoys it then let her write. My six year old son loves to write and does so on his blog. Maybe just do spelling informally now and move onto a formal program later if necessary.

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You ladies have given me a lot to think about. It sounds like y'all think I should drop spelling and journaling and figure out a way to do informal writing outside of schooltime, not a formal writing program?

 

I'm curious, though, if I hadn't given DD's age, would you have given different advice?

 

I talked with DD this morning about journaling, and at first she said she didn't like journaling. Then I found out that she didn't want to do her journal because she wanted to play. But when presented with doing her journal or starting school, she chose to do her journal. After she did her journal, I asked if she liked it, and she said that she liked it once she got started. Arg.

 

Just because she is "accelerated" doesn't mean she always has to do more than other 6 year olds.

 

I try to keep the length of her school work at her age level and the level of her work at her current working level. To me, that means working the same amount of time as other six year olds, but on material that is at her level.

 

And I hear you, understand your frustration!

 

Thanks. So often on this board I hear about smart kids who are learning way above their handwriting level and how moms cope with that. I have the opposite issue. DD's handwriting and mechanics are above her ability to think. I haven't heard of other kids with the same type of asynchronicity

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Thanks. So often on this board I hear about smart kids who are learning way above their handwriting level and how moms cope with that. I have the opposite issue. DD's handwriting and mechanics are above her ability to think. I haven't heard of other kids with the same type of asynchronicity
Would she be interested in something like Draw Squad?
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At your daughter's age I wouldn't require too much writing. If she enjoys it then let her write. My six year old son loves to write and does so on his blog. Maybe just do spelling informally now and move onto a formal program later if necessary.

 

I think that my daughter currently does the right amount of writing for *her*. Maybe it isn't the right amount for other six year olds, but why can't it be the right amount of writing for this one kid who happens to be accelerated in this particular way? However, if I drop spelling and journaling, that would reduce her writing to zero, which is not enough writing for *her*.

 

I like the idea of a blog, but my daughter doesn't know how to type yet. (She has great handwriting.) Plus, I don't have a spare computer for her to use in her free time. Maybe I can convince DH to find the $$$ for a new computer in the homeschool budget. :tongue_smilie:

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I'm curious, though, if I hadn't given DD's age, would you have given different advice?

 

If you said she was 10 I would have given different advice, yes. She is at the age where writing can be done informally and enjoyed. You still have plenty of time to build her writing skills. I tend to think that the beginning love of writing or reading is very important toward future feelings about writing and reading.

 

You said she is coming up with rhymes and poems, but doesn't want to write them down. Perhaps you can get her to record them on video to show others. The creative process in writing is important too.

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I think one of the difficulties with a free writing journal for a child so young is that it's tough for many people of all ages to think of something to say every day when it's time to write. That's one reason I suggested a content-oriented journal that plays off of a child's interests, or a commonplace book. Peggy Kaye's Games For Writing offers something similar, in that it sets up a framework or structure within which you play and write. The burden is not on the child all the time to think of something to say, which sounds like part of the source of resistance on your daughter's side. Peggy Kaye also makes writing a social activity rather than something a child sits down and does in isolation. I've also read about a joint journal in which parents and children exchange daily notes -- what you liked best about the day, what you thought about or did, a comment or quote about a book you're reading together -- and respond to one another. These types of approaches would allow you to keep some continuity in the amount of writing you want your child to do while trying out different techniques or forms to see what catches her enthusiasm at this age.

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We have three of Mark Kistler's books, but DD is in more of an Ed Emberly phase. She draws all the time. How would drawing take the place of writing if I drop spelling and journaling?
Writing and drawing both involve fine motor skills, attention to detail, and a delicate touch. If her penmanship is good, I guess I just don't see the big deal about her *having* to write.
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I'm curious, though, if I hadn't given DD's age, would you have given different advice?

 

Shoot, I didn't start assigning regular writing until my kids were about 12! I might have surprised you with my response!!

 

But that is another matter entirely.:tongue_smilie:

 

Many years from now when you are about to graduate your dd, you will want to look back on these years with warm nostalgia, those journals are going to be something you'll both love reading. The things you are worrying about now, such as how much time should to spend on writing, are issues you'll chuckle at if you even remember them. Early elementary is a very special time -- just cherish it! She is clearly thriving and you are clearly doing a great job, so sit back, relax and enjoy it.

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I purchased the font from Educational Fontware and did them myself in Word, using text from Gutenberg and various poetry sites. I know some balk at the $50 price, but it includes a program that actually joins the letters when doing linked italics, and I've certainly got my money's worth out of it.

 

Thanks for the info. :)

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My dd loves to write so I don't require writing from her. She keeps lists, writes stories, creates her own family newspaper which she types and prints, etc... With a little creativity you can easily sneak writing into all her other school subjects...literature, poetry, history, and science. I do have her do History Portfolio, keep a science notebook, and often she will write about things she's read...what might have happened if _____ or what happens next type stories.

 

I don't expect that she'll write a certain amount but doing it in different contexts helps her learn to write in many different ways.

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Shoot, I didn't start assigning regular writing until my kids were about 12! I might have surprised you with my response!!

 

Just to be clear, I don't give my daughter writing assignments. The only time she puts words on paper is when she does spelling and journaling. And for the journaling there are *zero* requirements regarding content, lenght, or quality. I'm asking what other ways can I have her put words on paper if I drop both of these activities, or if I should continue these activities simply for the practice of putting words on paper.

 

Many years from now ... those journals are going to be something you'll both love reading.

 

So I should keep the journaling? :willy_nilly:

(DD is currently writing a story about characters named Gas, Liquid, Solid, and Plasma going to a birthday party and Plasma catching a cold. It's really cute. DD has been adding a little bit each day.)

 

My dd loves to write so I don't require writing from her. She keeps lists, writes stories, creates her own family newspaper which she types and prints, etc... With a little creativity you can easily sneak writing into all her other school subjects...literature, poetry, history, and science. I do have her do History Portfolio, keep a science notebook, and often she will write about things she's read...what might have happened if _____ or what happens next type stories.

 

I don't expect that she'll write a certain amount but doing it in different contexts helps her learn to write in many different ways.

 

:bigear: This plan sounds a lot like the cross-curricular writing that I eventually want DD to do. Unfortunately I'm not creative and don't know how to sneak writing into other school subjects. This I need to learn.

Edited by Kuovonne
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I don't do any writing assignments with ds6 other than copywork, which is for both handwriting and spelling/grammar practice. (He makes up long, complicated stories that he then acts out with his toys, but he has shown zero interest in writing them down.) However, if your dd likes writing and is in the habit of writing, I would keep it up - address the problem, but don't scrap the whole concept. It sounds like she is only resisting working on her journal when she isn't feeling inspired to write about anything in particular. Maybe you could keep the format you have in place now, but add a list of ideas or fun writing suggestions to keep on hand. That way when she tells you she doesn't know what to write about you can pull out the list and give her some suggestions without interfering with her creativity when she is feeling inspired on her own.

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if your dd likes writing and is in the habit of writing, I would keep it up - address the problem, but don't scrap the whole concept.

 

Thanks. She's in the habit of writing for school, and I want to keep that up. I am just questioning value of the type of writing that we currently do, and what to replace it with.

 

Well, personally I'd be doing Writing With Ease with her. And perhaps begin writing some simple narrations from her history and lit readings.

 

That's one vote for beginning a writing program!

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That's one vote for beginning a writing program!

 

Well, lol, yeah. Six just doesn't strike me as particularly "young" to be doing some basic writing, and personally I think WWE is much more valuable than open-ended journaling *for*school*. (As I said in the other thread on journaling, my kids write all the time and I really encourage that -- but it's not "school" for them.) And WWE is *very* gentle. The first level is designed for 1st graders, so it doesn't push them unduly. (In fact, I have a tendency to ask more from my kids than what WWE asks, but it's a good start.)

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If your main problem is being stuck for something to write about, how about writing narrations. You could read her a fairy tale or animal story (Thornton Burgess, for example) and have her retell it in her own words and then draw a picture to illustrate. It might be more fun for her than journaling and you'd have a lovely notebook at the end of the year.

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Thanks. She's in the habit of writing for school, and I want to keep that up. I am just questioning value of the type of writing that we currently do, and what to replace it with.

 

I see. I actually think any type of writing, as long as she enjoys it, is beneficial - especially if you see her incorporating things she's learning in her language arts program. IIRC, you use MCT with her, and I think I remember you posting that her poems were showing improvement since you started Music of the Hemispheres. Are you seeing the same in her journal?

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I see. I actually think any type of writing, as long as she enjoys it, is beneficial - especially if you see her incorporating things she's learning in her language arts program. IIRC, you use MCT with her, and I think I remember you posting that her poems were showing improvement since you started Music of the Hemispheres. Are you seeing the same in her journal?

 

Yup, I'm using MCT Island level with her. Yup, DD's journal is the only tool I have to diagnose DD's writing. Yup, I see gradual improvement in her journal (although I don't think that it is the result of MCT yet.)

 

I guess I don't understand the emphasis that I should have DD write only if and when she enjoys it. If she couldn't form her letters yet, it would be appropriate to have her practice handwriting for a few minutes, even on days when she'd rather play. I'm asking for the same amount of time spent writing, only at her working level.

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I specified 'if she enjoys it' because I am looking at it from the perspective of homeschooling a child who DOES NOT like to write. He is very creative, and will even narrate stories and songs into a recorder, but he has an overlapping grip (we're working on it) which makes his hand tire quickly. He has beautiful handwriting when he chooses too, and he practices writing copywork to build hand strength and work on correcting his grip, but with those he isn't having to think and create at the same time as he struggles to get the grip right on his pencil. It would be a huge fight to get him to write his stories down because of the grip issue, and I don't think at his age it is worthwhile to force it. I think it would kill any hope of him enjoying writing in the future.

 

If your dd was fighting you to the point of having meltdowns over not knowing what to write, I would say take a break and come back to it in a few months to try again. But if she just complains on occasion or whines a bit, that doesn't seem to me a good reason to stop something she is already used to. Ds loves history, but he still complains about doing his mapwork occasionally. It doesn't mean I drop history.

 

Hmm, that turned out to be a lot longer than I intended. I hope it helps clarify my earlier post. :001_smile:

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I specified 'if she enjoys it' because I am looking at it from the perspective of homeschooling a child who DOES NOT like to write.

 

Ah, I see where you're coming from. My DD is in a totally different place. The mechanics of writing (penmanship, spelling, capitalization, basic punctuation, etc.) come very easily to her. Her written sentences sound just like her speech -- she doesn't simplify her thoughts just to get them on paper. Her creativity and organization are not as strong as her mechanics, but she is still at grade level with them.

 

If your dd was fighting you to the point of having meltdowns over not knowing what to write, I would say take a break and come back to it in a few months to try again. But if she just complains on occasion or whines a bit, that doesn't seem to me a good reason to stop something she is already used to.

 

Ah. God has truly blessed me with this child. No school-related meltdowns. Mostly whining and complaining because she would rather play.

 

Hmm, that turned out to be a lot longer than I intended. I hope it helps clarify my earlier post. :001_smile:

 

Thanks for the long explaination. For a while I felt like everyone was saying that I make DD do too much writing.

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I don't think anyone was saying your daughter is doing too much writing. I think they were suggesting you don't need to worry about quantity of production at this point and they were trying to suggest different ways to incorporate creativity and different types of structure since that seemed one of your concerns or goals.

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I don't think anyone was saying your daughter is doing too much writing. I think they were suggesting you don't need to worry about quantity of production at this point and they were trying to suggest different ways to incorporate creativity and different types of structure since that seemed one of your concerns or goals.

 

Thanks. I guess I was thinking that if I eliminate DD's current writing activities, her writing would go to Zero, and in response people said that six year old's don't need to write much.

 

BTW, I got the Games for Writing book and played one of the games with DD today and she seemed to like it. At least she was giggling most of the time. We'll see when the novelty wears off.

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Doesn't Sentence Island cover writing exercises? We started at the "town" level with MCT and PT definitely has plenty of writing assignments.

 

Last year when my DD was 6, she really enjoyed the Writing Man series from Writing in Narrative. It's on clearance for $8.37 + sh here. We also did WWE 1, but the copywork was like pulling teeth to get her to finish.

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Doesn't Sentence Island cover writing exercises? We started at the "town" level with MCT and PT definitely has plenty of writing assignments.

 

We just finished Grammar Island yesterday and will start Sentence Island soon. It has some writing assignments, but not enough to completely replace the daily writing that she currently does, especially considering how slowly I expect to move through it. Plus, the writing assignments are typically only a few sentences except for the "write a story" exercises which I think will be too difficult for my DD.

 

Last year when my DD was 6, she really enjoyed the Writing Man series from Writing in Narrative. It's on clearance for $8.37 + sh here. We also did WWE 1, but the copywork was like pulling teeth to get her to finish.

 

I have WWE, but it just isn't a good fit for us. DD's writing mechanics far outpace her ability to summarize. I could tweak it (do level 4 dictations, combined with level 1/2 narrations, but that much tweaking isn't worth it for me.)

 

Can you tell me more about the Writing Man series?

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