What if we start our own Bilingual "umbrella" School?

[Joan in GE]

I've just been wracking my brain about umbrella schools - still. As my son still needs a diploma besides his AP's.

 

While thinking about the high school thread about "need hard data", I was thinking about how as homeschoolers we graduate so few from our own family schools, that each of our homes have no "reputation". And our reputation becomes the big pot of "homeschoolers" which translates into the ones the person has met or read about. And if the person has read only very negative articles, they come with all this negative baggage towards homeschooling.

 

And then some of these umbrella schools have such low standards that I would hate to have a university examine how low they are, because then it would be assumed that we are having those low standards too. But the ones with higher standards tend to be so costly and sometimes their standards are narrow and difficult to meet.

 

Then I was also thinking about my ds studying biology in French next year and how I would then have to translate anything to put on the application for an umbrella school (Cleo's problem too).

 

Then the other day I found my own high school diploma and saw how it was signed by the principle and I think vice principle with a picture of a big school in the background.

 

Awhile back, BlueHen posted about how she had her own embosser and gave the link where she got it. It is easy to get diplomas made with the school name.

 

Earlier I'd thought that if we went back to the US, I would name our homeschool (ETD - so not on record)....

 

But then I'd still have the problem of the principle having the same last name as the student.

 

I was thinking about my own relatives who are homeschooling but none of them are aiming for bilingualism really.

 

All these things started mixing together and I started thinking about Nan's son studying history in French and Cleo's children studying in more than one language and jld and Moira in MA and IGWNorth and others up and coming...thinking maybe we could have a little "bilingual" umbrella school somehow?

 

To graduate with the bilingual diploma, the student would have to have passed either the SAT II or the AP in at least one foreign language. Ideally they would be studying one or more subjects in a foreign language (other than the language class itself) each year. And we could make the standards reflect ours - which I know are mixed but maybe we could agree on some common grounds.

 

Besides an agreement about graduation requirements, all we would need would be a little website and an official address. I'm thinking it should be in the US as rules for starting your own anything are much easier there than here.

 

The other thing we need is some assurance that we would be able to be in touch over the years as I know that sometimes an official transcript has to be sent even for applications to Masters programs here.

 

Any other brainstormers interested?

 

The idea makes me smile anyway,

Joan

Edited May 13, 2010 by Joan in Geneva

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

ooooh, that would be lovely! An umbrella school that understands global students!

Well, we're not technically global, because we stay home, but courses are done in France, in Quebec, and in the States. (I'm not counting Singapore Math as being done in Singapore though...)

 

I have no clue about the feasibility of an umbrella school. I'm not familiar with the inner workings of such a thing. I would try to tag along an already existing umbrella school instead. I'm thinking about NARHS which is open-minded, but for foreign languages. It's also not accepted everywhere, but neither would our umbrella school..

[jld]

Well, it is an interesting thought . . . :)

[Joan in GE]

Let's see....

 

If someone is living in a state that can give accreditation...I know Georgia is willing to accredit homeschools. What are others? I think I'll post on the other board...

 

Some of these accreditation agencies are not that serious. It might not be that hard to do. I don't think the NARS accreditation source is one of the biggies. The real thing would be the standards that we are setting for ourselves and are then posted on the website....

 

I forgot to mention that I'd looked at the Nebraska possibility through University of Nebraska, but their high school diploma is dictated by state high school requirement. Those are somewhat narrow and inflexible. Even though my son is doing AP Human Geo, it did not look like it would be counted for the multicultural credit because it was not one of the official three courses required. That had me shaking my head and thinking.

 

Joan

[Nan in Mass]

We could have some sort of transcript that gave credit for ability to speak a language without being able to write it. We could have it not matter which language we did language arts in. We could have some way of showing which language one studied which subject in...

 

You might want to look at Maine. I know they give the choice of an alternative assessment method for high school diplomas, rather than the standard 4 English, 4 math, etc.

 

-Nan

[Joan in GE]

Maybe there could be cross-cultural exchange type credits for Peacewalking as well?

 

The important thing is to show these special aspects of the education we are giving.

 

I have been thinking about Maine but wonder if they don't require that classes are taught in English since NARS requires that - or is it just because NARS doesn't want to deal with reading course descriptions in foreign languages?

 

We need to find the states which allow immersion teaching as those must allow courses to be taught in other languages....I know there are French schools in some states....

 

Joan

[moki4]

What an idea! Your first post sure resonates with our family!

We have been HSing through a charter (they pay for French private tutor and advanced math private tutor). But, as we near high school, I really don't think I want the charter school's name on the diploma unless it says something about "homeschool". There is something to be said about reputation. Not sure if they even have a reputation, but I know for a fact that most kids who attend the physical site are the ones who coud not "do" regular school. Hense, their scores are horrible.

I had a meeting the other day with the top administrator, and it was crystal clear that they have NO idea how to help advanced students through CC and AP/CLEP.

So, we may just break ties completely for the high school years and register with the state as a private school.

Also, keep us on your list for the bilingual ed.; not sure if Dc would qualify but the older 2 are considered intermediate HS French.

Good luck and keep us posted:)

[Joan in GE]

Moki (4?)

 

You just talked about making your own private school. So that must be possible in CA. Is it hard to make an umbrella school in CA? If not, CA might be the state...Do you have a link for state requirements? If so, can you post it on this thread to keep it all together (and for others who might be interested in the issue for other reasons on the high school board)?

 

OK, I'll put you on "the list"!

 

Joan

[moki4]

I will try to get to it today, but most likely it will be in a day or two!

Happy Mothers Day:)

Hubby wants me off the computer.....to enjoy my day (but this is an thread!)

[Joan in GE]

I've searched this because I figure that this would show which states are open to programs not being taught totally in English.

 

I found an interesting site that shows the immersion programs in the US. If you scroll down it breaks the data into various summaries by state.

 

Here is the page for French in high school since so far people seem to be leaning towards that language...

 

Joan

[Chez J]

I find this interesting too. I will keep following this thread. No ideas since I just read this. I'll ponder it though.

[Nan in Mass]

Here http://www.maine.gov/education/lres/lres.htm are the Maine standards for graduation. I know other states have things like these but I happened to have looked at this and unless I'm mistaken, you can graduate from high school in Maine either by having the normal 4 English, etc. or by accomplishing these. This insists that these standards be met in English, yes, but most of the skills in the list are general language-arts ones, not anything specific to the English language, so a child learning the skill in a second language would be able to apply the skill in English, providing that they are fluent in English, and that would allow us to do the bulk of our language arts in a language other than English and then just demonstrate that the skill can be applied in English, rather than spend four years of actually studying English. At least, I think that might be how it works? I'm guessing. Perhaps someone with more time might investigate further?

 

And I have a question - would we need to have anything to do with the state and the state standards? Or could we start a private school and meet whatever standards are necessary to do that? Is that the part where the state comes in - saying you can have a private school within that state? It seems as though as far as reputation goes, accreditation by one of the regional accreditation people or the private school accreditation people would be more important that the state standards? Or perhaps they don't approve you unless you meet your state's standards?

-Nan

Edited May 10, 2010 by Nan in Mass

[Nan in Mass]

Here is something to investigate:

http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/regional/CaliforniaR4.htm

 

And this:

http://www2.ed.gov/pubs/RegPrivSchl/maine.html

I haven't read the above thoroughily but it looks like they do specify that the language of instruction be English. So perhaps it is a matter of going through the states until we find one that doesn't have that? There is a French school in Boston. I wonder how they get around this? Or does Mass not have that requirement? Or do they have special approval, in which case perhaps we could also?

Edited May 10, 2010 by Nan in Mass

[Joan in GE]

It is interesting about Maine, as when I read this part,

 

"Instruction in English: English is the basic language of instruction in all schools except, subject to the Commissioner's approval, schools may provide transitional instruction using bilingual techniques for students of limited proficiency in English and providing proficiency in English and a second language. Me. Rev. Stat. Ann. tit. 20-A, § 4701."

 

it almost seems like you could be providing bilingual instruction and not just remedially.

 

But on the list of states with foreign language immersion programs (see link above), there are none in Maine.

 

On the summary of data, there are so few high school immersion programs...a total of 37 for the whole country in all languages.

 

I didn't see anything about English in the CA guidelines...but neither was there anything about graduation requirements...I'll have to look more but need to get to bed now....

 

Joan

[Nan in Mass]

Ok - Try this site: http://www.bienvenueaboston.org/wikigroup.php?id=14

 

 

It lists French bilingual programs (or just plain French programs). Here it is.

 

Scolarité

 

• Certaines écoles comme celles de Milton et Holliston offrent des programmes en français (si vous en connaissez d'autres, faites le nous savoir)
  
• L'école Internationale de Boston (ancienne Ecole Bilingue) sur Cambridge et Arlington offre des cours bilingues français/anglais de la maternelle à la terminale (voir les frais de scolarité)
  
• L'EFGB (Education Française Greater Boston) propose un programme d’enseignement du français pour les enfants francophones de 5 à 11 ans.
  
• Arc-En-Ciel Day Care (Sud Brookline / Jamaica Plains ainsi que Natick): de 2 mois à 5 ans. Programme Montessori bilingue 2 à 5 ans.
  
• Teddy Bear Club (Newton): preschool bilingue
  
• Ecole Franco-Américaine du Rhode Island
  
• Ecole Française du Maine
  
• La Waring School à Beverly offre un programme d'immersion en français. Selon un membre c'est "une très bonne école, coûteuse mais très competitive. (...) la quantité de "home work" est impressionnante..."
  
• Le site School Digger donne le niveau des écoles publiques
  

Se référer aussi au site du Consulat Général de France à Boston.

 

It has some links to investigate.

-Nan

[Joan in GE]

MA certainly looks like it accepts bilingual programs...From the thread about accreditation on the high school board, I'm wondering if it is worth all the work. It is worth it if you are applying in Georgia.

 

Maybe we should start by figuring out what we really need....

 

For me, I would like ds to have a diploma showing standards that reflect the level of education which he is working for.

 

Cleo - you want a diploma - but is the accreditation really necessary? I know Moira in MA did not use any umbrella school even for McGill acceptance.

 

Nan - what would be helpful for you?

 

Moki4 - it seems like you want something that reflects the effort put in...

 

Anyone else?

 

I think these questions of yours are important, Nan.

 

And I have a question - would we need to have anything to do with the state and the state standards? Or could we start a private school and meet whatever standards are necessary to do that? Is that the part where the state comes in - saying you can have a private school within that state? It seems as though as far as reputation goes, accreditation by one of the regional accreditation people or the private school accreditation people would be more important that the state standards? Or perhaps they don't approve you unless you meet your state's standards?

-Nan

 

I was looking at my own high school's website and saw that they don't say anything about accreditation, only about being lined up with the state standards. So then I guess it is assumed that coming from a public school that you fall in line with the state's standards? Then it is the private schools that have to get "accredited" to prove that they are following the state standards?

 

Are we allowed to operate an umbrella school in a state without being accredited? It seems like yes for some states as some of the sites I've looked aren't accredited at all.

 

When you are following some state's standards, it is quite easy because then you can just link to the state's website to show their standards. But if we want more - since I don't know if there is any state standard that has bilingualism as a goal (LA has the most immersion programs - 30 - but nothing for high school) - then maybe we would put - state standards + to show that we're going beyond.

 

But there are some state standards which are too narrow.

 

I'm going to look at some of the international schools to see if state history is mandatory there....

 

Joan

[Chez J]

I'll have to look for specifics, but here in Texas, private schools often are not accredited. I know the French schools are not. That allows them to meet the French Ministry standards, which don't match Texas standards. We also have charter schooling. Maybe a "virtual" charter school is an option????

[Joan in GE]

they have a bunch of diploma programs with various criteria - or lackthereof...

 

Pauline's Guide to PA Diploma Programs

 

Unhappily the most important link is not working (diploma program application) and even with searching I could not find it. I'm going to write to Pauline.

 

 

Lesley - Texas sounds open. Let us know of any other finds down there....

 

Joan

[anabelneri]

e immersion programs in the US. If you scroll down it breaks the data into various summaries by state.

 

 

I know this might be neither here nor there for the primary point of this conversation, but I can say for sure that it's not fully representative. I know of two public Spanish immersion and two public Mandarin immersion schools not listed, as well as a private German immersion school, and that's just in the nearby areas.

 

In looking at California graduation requirements, I found this http://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/gs/hs/hsgrfaq.asp page... if you set up a charter school it would be complicated (and likely messy). I'm with a charter school now, and they jump through a lot of hoops not only to remain accredited, but also to maintain their charter with their school district.

 

http://www.californiahomeschool.net/howTo/psa.htm is about filing as a private school. That might work for what you're looking for, though I'm not entirely sure.

 

It's definitely an interesting idea. I'm not in need of it at the moment, but I can see how it might be motivating for folks with kids looking towards graduation.

 

:)

[Chez J]

In looking at California graduation requirements, I found this http://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/gs/hs/hsgrfaq.asp page... if you set up a charter school it would be complicated (and likely messy). I'm with a charter school now, and they jump through a lot of hoops not only to remain accredited, but also to maintain their charter with their school district.:)

 

I looked at charters here in Texas. Very difficult. You have to get into a lottery first before you get reviewed. They only allow a certain number and there is a long waiting list.

 

I've got a call into a local part-time school to find out what they have done for accreditation and how they set up their diploma. Let you know what I find.

 

Lesley

[Joan in GE]

I looked at charters here in Texas. Very difficult. You have to get into a lottery first before you get reviewed. They only allow a certain number and there is a long waiting list.

 

I've got a call into a local part-time school to find out what they have done for accreditation and how they set up their diploma. Let you know what I find.

 

Lesley

 

 

A lottery system, who would have ever guessed? Texas seemed so easy in some ways. Thank you for the legwork Lesley! Yes, let us know...

 

I know this might be neither here nor there for the primary point of this conversation, but I can say for sure that it's not fully representative. I know of two public Spanish immersion and two public Mandarin immersion schools not listed, as well as a private German immersion school, and that's just in the nearby areas.

 

In looking at California graduation requirements, I found this http://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/gs/hs/hsgrfaq.asp page... if you set up a charter school it would be complicated (and likely messy). I'm with a charter school now, and they jump through a lot of hoops not only to remain accredited, but also to maintain their charter with their school district.

 

http://www.californiahomeschool.net/howTo/psa.htm is about filing as a private school. That might work for what you're looking for, though I'm not entirely sure.

 

It's definitely an interesting idea. I'm not in need of it at the moment, but I can see how it might be motivating for folks with kids looking towards graduation.

 

:)

 

 

Those are interesting links. They are revealing about the CA system. What I don't understand is how it can say that instruction must be in English, yet there are schools, like the private school you mentioned, that are teaching immersion.

 

Thank you too Anabel! (PS I don't know if the difference in stats is because the stats are from 2006? I know there is a big increase in Mandarin speaking program due to Chinese gov policies these days.)

 

Joan

[anabelneri]

Maybe there's a different list for dual-immersion? I think at least a couple of the ones I mentioned are dual-immersion, with one of the languages being English. All of the public schools I mentioned except one have been around since before 2006. We have a bunch of Mandarin schools in the area, but that makes sense for us here in California since we have such a large Chinese population (and Indian, Japanese, Vietnamese, and...)

 

Looking at the CA private school laws, one hiccup might be that every teacher's address must be listed. I don't see it saying that the addresses must be in California, but it still might be a catching point.

 

How do online schools like K-12 do it? Maybe find out where they're registered, then look at those laws?

 

:)

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I know next to nothing (and on the negative side of nothing!) about all this. But maybe it's worth taking a look at Canada? Isn't New Brunswick bilingual? It's somewhat homeschool friendly too.

[Joan in GE]

but then I looked at the Swiss uni requirements for Canada and for Quebec it is the D.E.C. which you probably know all about. Now is New Brunswick's high school diploma at a different level than Quebec's? For us, the US diploma with the AP's for the Swiss uni seems more flexible (to possibly enter in the US with SAT II's/AP's). Maybe they are the same. But I'm already learning two systems (US & Swiss) and I think I'll really get sleepless with a third.

 

The branches are the same as for the US but since Canada is not also required to provide AP's that means the level is higher and I'd have to figure out their goals etc...

 

Maybe you have seen a site talking about entry of Canadians into US schools? I'm curious?

 

I know my cousin's daughter went to a Canadian university coming from France with the French Bacc and was able to skip her Freshman year. So that had given me the idea that the Canadian level was closer to the US level. But the Swiss site makes me wonder....

 

Let me know if you learn anything else...

Joan

[Joan in GE]

Maybe there's a different list for dual-immersion? I think at least a couple of the ones I mentioned are dual-immersion, with one of the languages being English. All of the public schools I mentioned except one have been around since before 2006. We have a bunch of Mandarin schools in the area, but that makes sense for us here in California since we have such a large Chinese population (and Indian, Japanese, Vietnamese, and...)

 

Looking at the CA private school laws, one hiccup might be that every teacher's address must be listed. I don't see it saying that the addresses must be in California, but it still might be a catching point.

 

How do online schools like K-12 do it? Maybe find out where they're registered, then look at those laws?

 

:)

 

Thanks Anabel. I can see this is going to take more homework than I thought....I've just written a friend in FL where they have lots of umbrella schools...

 

I haven't given up yet though. I have this website picture in my mind with a different angle than the average umbrella school and somehow it just doesn't seem like it should be that difficult...but maybe private school is the way to go. I think charters are related to state schools because they get state funding...

 

Any more insights are welcome,

Joan

[Nan in Mass]

This http://www.isbos.org/page.cfm?p=1013 has the accreditations for ISB, which is kind of interesting. Have you investigated being an international school?

-Nan

[Nan in Mass]

I am still deciding. I don't even know if we would qualify for the umbrella school. I don't know if my son will ever write French well enough to do the AP test. I had a look at the SAT2 listening exam and he might be able to do that one.

 

My first priority has to be engineering-type things, not French. I don't see why we couldn't have both, though, if we were willing to skimp on other things, like English literature and US history. That would be easier to do if we were in a bilingual school. We go fairly light on them as it is. Our plan so far is to keep doing the easiest of the great books, hopefully doing some in French. If we had a general language arts requirement instead of four years of Englsih, it would be easier.

 

If my son were part of a bilingual school and thought that was rather cool, it might encourage him to put in the work needed to learn to write. It also might encourage us to find him a conversation partner and practise speaking more.

 

It would be nice to have an easy way to receive credit for his hard work and for doing things like history in French. I'm not sure how I am going to represent that on his transcript.

 

We didn't have a problem getting his brother into college on our own (well - with CC classes), so an umbrella isn't necessary to us for that purpose.

 

-Nan

[Joan in GE]

If we had a general language arts requirement instead of four years of English, it would be easier.

 

If my son were part of a bilingual school and thought that was rather cool, it might encourage him to put in the work needed to learn to write. It also might encourage us to find him a conversation partner and practise speaking more.

 

It would be nice to have an easy way to receive credit for his hard work and for doing things like history in French. I'm not sure how I am going to represent that on his transcript.

 

 

So it sounds like a motivation source would be helpful to you....

 

The part about general language requirements...that would not matter for Mass. homeschool reporting? I do not really know what you have to do, just curious.

 

The international school pages are interesting - providing food for thought. I know we couldn't be accredited that way though. My ds1 attended one of the ones for several years on the CIB website. I know the complicated process that school went through to get accredited (and for awhile was not even accredited). Big bucks.

 

Having "international" in the name is another thing...but I tend to think that word reflects the students attending rather than the standards they are attaining....

 

How to have serious but creative standards (meaning they can encompass diverse activities that you talk about, Nan, on some other threads and some of the global Gap ideas...)...

 

The International schools using the IB program have the CAS hours - Creativity, Action, Service - that they have to do to get their IB, besides a kind of thesis paper...

 

Anabel, I still have to research the K-12 source of registration....

 

DS just did the AP Human Geo this AM...it is the free response questions that are hard...I was impressed...

 

Joan

Edited May 16, 2010 by Joan in Geneva

[Nan in Mass]

Would peacewalking count as service? Gymnastics would count at athletic, although I don't know if he will do it all through high school. (He just got himself onto the girl's high school team for next year. Hmm...) And would making models (sculpting his own made-up ones in sculpy or cardboard) or drawing in his nature journal count as creative? I like the idea of CAS hours. I hadn't heard that before. But it would probably be fairly easy for us to accomplish.

 

I think of an international school being one where there is an international student body as well, so I am not sure, even if it were possible, it would be what we want.

 

Good for your son!

 

-Nan

[Chez J]

So it sounds like a motivation source would be helpful to you....

 

The part about general language requirements...that would not matter for Mass. homeschool reporting? I do not really know what you have to do, just curious.

 

Joan

 

After reading through the replies on this thread, I'm wondering if a standardized umbrella would be flexible enough for everyone.

 

"My" expectation would be that at a minimum language arts would be in both languages. To be biliterate, one must be able to converse, read and write in two languages. To me that means, using proper spelling and grammar one would study in a language arts class. This doesn't necessarily mean an hour-long LA course in English, then an hour-long LA course in French. :D But, the "diploma" would need to show course work that demonstrates to University administrators a study in the "art of each language." Since we're talking biliterate students, the course level would be AP language arts in the non-native language.

 

Beyond that would be where the diversity of our "student body" would be expressed. History, art, literature, music or engineering in the non-native language would be ways to demonstrate a grasp of specialized body of knowledge in a non-native language. I think how "neat" it would be to teach AP European history in French. LOL! Or, to study art and music history in French, since so much contribution is from Europe. Or, if you are planning to attend a French speaking university and study engineering, it would help the student to take math or science in French so that the student is well prepared for that particular university's French instruction.

 

Again for "me," I'm wondering now, after reading all this, if this is the right thing. "We" will study French and English LA through at least 9th grade. I intend to make 9th grade French an AP French course (if her tutor thinks it's time, otherwise it will be 10th). Beyond that course, my plan has been to introduce components of courses in French. So, for history, my course would be in English, but I would have my daughter read some of the works a second time in French and maybe write a paper in French. That would make it history in French as well. But, it would not be a separate course. I can see reading about famous French artists and musicians in French as either European history or art history.

 

Thinking out loud now, maybe the work described in the paragraph above would show one-half credit in French history. So, maybe that is how to define the course - what constitutes a half-credit of some course in a non-native language. If you do partial work you get a half-credit. Dunno.

 

Lesley

[Joan in GE]

Again for "me," I'm wondering now, after reading all this, if this is the right thing. "We" will study French and English LA through at least 9th grade. I intend to make 9th grade French an AP French course (if her tutor thinks it's time, otherwise it will be 10th). Beyond that course, my plan has been to introduce components of courses in French. So, for history, my course would be in English, but I would have my daughter read some of the works a second time in French and maybe write a paper in French. That would make it history in French as well. But, it would not be a separate course. I can see reading about famous French artists and musicians in French as either European history or art history.

 

Thinking out loud now, maybe the work described in the paragraph above would show one-half credit in French history. So, maybe that is how to define the course - what constitutes a half-credit of some course in a non-native language. If you do partial work you get a half-credit. Dunno.

 

Lesley

 

Lesley, you have raised some interesting points. As for these last ones, they show the problem with the credit method in a way. For a really bilingual family, they go back and forth using which ever materials in which ever language serve them best.

 

I haven't always given a separate French listed credit even if some of the work was done in French. Eg my son studied some math in French to prepare for his Genevan exams. But I just listed it as Algebra I and Geometry. In fact he studied a fair amount of Geometry during the Algebra I class for the G. exam. But in Saxon texts, they are studying Geometry in the Alg I as well. Some people list it separately and some don't...It gets kind of messy.

 

I am planning for my son to study Biology mostly in French next year. So on a bilingual diploma I would mention, I guess, that it was studied in French? But I'm not sure if that is important or not. I'll have to look at my second son's school records to see what they did for the subjects that were studied in English as opposed to French. Though when I think about it, the more important thing for him was his "Matu" exam and I don't think his school records per se were sent to the university. It was all done with the intent of helping him pass the English part of the matu....

 

In history, we have used mostly English books, but also French books and videos. So far I did not list that separately.. When ds3 studied some of the Great Books in French, that went towards his French credit...

 

Nan - I would count Peacewalking as service as it is for the good of the community. I will take a look at the total number of hours, but I do not think they are that high...so for gymnastics, it might only be one year of a sport..whatever it is, is their criteria anyway...ours can be whatever we decide...only to mean that it might not be too major...

 

Have to relinquish the computer to dh now...

Joan

[Nan in Mass]

I don't have the most academic of students. I doubt he would be able to pass an AP class even in English. The SAT2s are meant for high school and I hope he would be able to do well on those, but the APs are advanced placement and require something more like college level writing. As an engineering sort of person, writing isn't his strong point, even in English.

 

-Nan

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

For an umbrella school, AP would have to be an option. Not all kids can nor wish to do AP..

 

As for me, pretty much every one of our subjects is done in a bilingual way. We do Sonlight, but all our discussions are in French. Same for math. Same for sciences. CNED French is all French I guess ;-) But that's about it.

 

How would I list history done in two languages? Or Physics?

 

By law, locally I have to teach in French for the most part. There's a set percentage, but I"m not sure what it is. Secondary subjects may be done in English (or any other language), as long as the majority of the schooling is done in French. I get around that law by using English material, but working in French.

[moki4]

sorry it took me so long to get back!

But from what I have gathered, to register in CA as a private school isn't too difficult. In fact, one must fill out the appropriate paper work (1-2 pages) and sign an agreement stating that the school follows CA standards. I believe this "offical paper" is then put into a dark cave and is completely forgotten about.

I think that any homeschooler (or private school student/french immersion school) usually provides test scores which validify "standards" coursework. College admissions will look over the transcript and say "sounds great". Now show me SAT/SATII, AP or CLEP scores.

I think this is correct, right?

I bet you could do this. But I am not sure our family would be ready for such intense french (I really would hope so but with music, school, sports, and work part-time, I have a hard time getting a decent meal on the table).

Oh, and I don't speak French! Gosh, keep the thoughts flowing and I will keep up with what you are all saying...

:bigear:

[Nan in Mass]

So it sounds like we need Ellie to come look at this discussion. Didn't she do this for years in California? Would you mind if I went and got her?

 

Moki - Some colleges look at portfolios or work samples, or outside classes like community colleges, as well as the standardized test results. In general, though, it seems like you are right and one doesn't generally just send colleges a transcript with no means of verifying its standards. I'm sure people have, and I'm sure there are colleges who will accept that, but I think now that there are more homeschoolers applying and they have more experience with their varying standards, many of them don't. Even the very alternativie ones I spoke to wanted SAT scores at a bare minimum from homeschoolers. As far as I can tell, the state colleges my son is attending ignored my transcript and were mostly interested in his community college transcript and his brother, who was a freshman there.

 

And Joan, I thought of a possible solution to your problem - community college. I haven't investigated thoroughily, but aren't some community colleges entirely online now? And aren't there ones that give credit for alternative ways of earning credit, like AP classes or CLEP exams? It would be a diploma-mill sort of diploma but that is sort of what you want, in this case. If your son had an associate's degree, would he need a high school diploma? Cleo, would that work for you? Both of you have children who are able to do AP level, so it seems as though CLEPs or online CC work would not be a problem.

 

-Nan

[Joan in GE]

So it sounds like we need Ellie to come look at this discussion. Didn't she do this for years in California? Would you mind if I went and got her?

....

And Joan, I thought of a possible solution to your problem - community college. I haven't investigated thoroughily, but aren't some community colleges entirely online now? And aren't there ones that give credit for alternative ways of earning credit, like AP classes or CLEP exams? It would be a diploma-mill sort of diploma but that is sort of what you want, in this case. If your son had an associate's degree, would he need a high school diploma? Cleo, would that work for you? Both of you have children who are able to do AP level, so it seems as though CLEPs or online CC work would not be a problem.

 

-Nan

 

You are welcome to ask Ellie...

 

I had not thought of an Associate Degree at all...I'll have to look into that...I know the Geneva University said two years at a university..I'm not sure if they would count a community college level or not...but they might still ask for the diploma...My ds1 applied for a master's program there and they wanted his high school diploma as well as his bachelor's diploma...

 

Nan, it is kind of you to brainstorm about our situations!

 

My son has just proposed setting up a website as my birthday and Mother's Day present...It would be his first so we'll see how that goes.:001_smile:

 

Joan

[Nan in Mass]

What a sweet idea! Good for him!

[Ellie]

Moki (4?)

 

You just talked about making your own private school. So that must be possible in CA. Is it hard to make an umbrella school in CA? If not, CA might be the state...Do you have a link for state requirements? If so, can you post it on this thread to keep it all together (and for others who might be interested in the issue for other reasons on the high school board)?

 

OK, I'll put you on "the list"!

 

Joan

In California, you would start a private school. There is no designation for "umbrella school." The requirements are that the school file an affidavit annually, that it keeps on file the qualifications of its teachers, that it offers the same subjects that public schools do, and that it indicate in an attendance register when students are absent. There are no requirements for graduation from a private school; teachers must be "persons capable of teaching;" there are no requirements for testing or anything.

 

So, yes, you could start a private school in California and enroll students from anywhere in the world. HOWEVER, parents who live in other states must still obey the homeschool laws, if any, in their own states.

 

Such a school could be accredited, if its owners believe that to be really important. They just have to have a plan.

[Joan in GE]

In California, you would start a private school. There is no designation for "umbrella school." The requirements are that the school file an affidavit annually, that it keeps on file the qualifications of its teachers, that it offers the same subjects that public schools do, and that it indicate in an attendance register when students are absent. There are no requirements for graduation from a private school; teachers must be "persons capable of teaching;" there are no requirements for testing or anything.

 

So, yes, you could start a private school in California and enroll students from anywhere in the world. HOWEVER, parents who live in other states must still obey the homeschool laws, if any, in their own states.

 

Such a school could be accredited, if its owners believe that to be really important. They just have to have a plan.

 

Thank you so much Ellie!!!

 

That does not sound that difficult....

 

The accreditation you talk about - is by who?

 

Just curious - Would a student graduating from this type of school be able to apply to CalPoly? or do they have to come from a public/charter school?

 

 

Thanks again!!

Joan

[Joan in GE]

Would peacewalking count as service? Gymnastics would count at athletic, although I don't know if he will do it all through high school. (He just got himself onto the girl's high school team for next year. Hmm...) And would making models (sculpting his own made-up ones in sculpy or cardboard) or drawing in his nature journal count as creative? I like the idea of CAS hours. I hadn't heard that before. But it would probably be fairly easy for us to accomplish.

 

Here is the Wikipedia article...I misspoke before; it is "action" not athletics (basically the same though).

 

It is 150 hours total, divided equally...you'd get that easily by their standards, Nan....

 

Reading on the College Board thread about AP's...I'm wondering how long the AP standard idea will be useful now....

 

Joan

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Reading on the College Board thread about AP's...I'm wondering how long the AP standard idea will be useful now....

 

Joan

what makes you say this?

[Nan in Mass]

Perhaps the article is refering mostly to AP classes rather than AP tests? I know they aren't necessarily giving credit for AP, but it still is a standardized test at a fairly high level, higher than SAT2 level. If not, aren't there other official French language tests that one can take which determine one's level of fluency? I think our Alliance Français offers them.

-Nan

[Nan in Mass]

DELF? TEF? They might be more internationally recognized than the AP? Maybe? I have been investigating these because I am thinking it might be nice to test my son and then retest him next year, so I can see if we have made any progress. It is next to impossible for me to do any sort of assessment.

-Nan

[Joan in GE]

what makes you say this?

 

 

I'm not talking about the next three years...but maybe by the time my daughter is getting her diploma (6 years from now), if the universities are leaning towards CLEP's or other exams, then maybe that is what will be better to show advanced study?....The Swiss universities are a bit behind about the level...eg here a 3 is accepted (which I guess is officially passing), while not all American universities are accepting that level. So they would probably be slower to change the AP requirement as well. But for the umbrella school to show AP's maybe won't be as useful in the future......things keep changing since they did the Bologne agreement here in Europe...but things are changing in the US as well...it was a very general imagination on my part of the future...just thinking aloud...

 

Joan

[Joan in GE]

If not, aren't there other official French language tests that one can take which determine one's level of fluency? I think our Alliance Français offers them.

 

Plus the other exams you posted...

 

This is good thinking...

 

And then I read something about a German test that people are taking, that I still have to track down, on the OSU thread...

 

You're right about language tests....

 

Thank goodness we can all brainstorm together on the hive!

 

Joan

[Nan in Mass]

I've been investigating. It seem like TCF is the one people take to determine level. It seems to result in a certificate. DELF/DALF seems to result in a diploma?? Maybe? It is a bit difficult to figure out. This site seems to have info:

http://www.ciep.fr/en/delfdalf/faq.php

Not very extensive, though.

I agree about brainstorming together.

-Nan

[Matryoshka]

And then I read something about a German test that people are taking, that I still have to track down, on the OSU thread...

 

Our Sat. School administers a bunch of tests for this...

 

Ah, it's the Sprachdiplom - our school administers it at three levels, A2, B1 and C1. The C1 is the highest level: the Sprachdiplom C1 diploma is an official certificate accepted by all German universities, which will then waive any further language entrance testing.

[Nan in Mass]

There are European standards for language testing, aren't there? So a C1 in German would be the same as a C1 in French?

[Matryoshka]

There are European standards for language testing, aren't there? So a C1 in German would be the same as a C1 in French?

 

I think that is true. I'm sure Cleo will be able to confirm. :) I didn't know those letters/numbers were a European standard till she posted about it here.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Yes a C1 would be the same for every European language. And there's a C2 too, although it's rarely offered.