Trusting God for your family size

[Sue G in PA]

I know there was a thread about this a while back but I can't seem to find it. This is such a personal decision that I don't want to start a debate as to whether or not this is "right". There are so many different opinions and each has its own merit for each family...whatever their specific beliefs are. I've been feeling convicted recently about our family size and how we "said" that we are done after having #7. While dh and I are both in agreement that we do NOT want to do anything permanent to prohibit any more children (i.e. vasectomy or tubal ligation), we were in agreement that we did not want any more...until recently. See, I KNOW that there are a million practical reasons why we should NOT have any more children (my struggle with depression, lack of "sufficient" income, feeling overwhelmed, we're almost out of diapers!, etc.) but I can't shake this feeling of conviction that we profess to trust God in EVERYTHING...except this. Why shouldn't we trust God for our family size, too? If He wanted us to have more children, we would. If not, He's close my womb. He did that numerous times in the Bible (i.e. Sarah, Elizabeth). Dh totally agrees that it is hypocritical to say we trust God when we really only trust Him for certain things. But he isn't ready to relinquish control in this area yet. He does NOT want more children. Yet he agrees that this is HIS will and not God's will. How do you get through something like this? I don't necessarily WANT more children, but I don't want to put MY will ahead of GOD'S will for us. I know that HIS will is perfect...mine is just selfish. I am 37...almost 38. I don't have many good childbearing years left. If God wants to bless us with another child or 2...I want what HE wants. How do I convince dh or do I? Is that God's job? All I know is that our current method of bc is unsettling to me and ANY form of bc is unsettling to me these days. WWYD? I'm feeling so upset about this today.

[Mejane]

My personal opinion, and I'm not a bible-believing Christian so take it for what it's worth, is that a loving God would not do anything to hurt one of his children. I've seen too many mothers of large numbers of children who are utterly overwhelmed, and I have to wonder - how does this glorify God?

 

You sound as though you have enough on your plate now and you are hearing a voice saying, "Enough, Sue." How do you know that voice isn't God's?

[Liz CA]

It's always a hard place to be when couples don't find common ground on any issue, perhaps even more so on this particular issue. I would give it some time while praying and seeing if both of you can agree on a strategy. One or two months won't make a difference but it may help to gain some clarity on the principles involved.

Who believes in what? Are some decisions motivated by fear (many of mine have been), best case scenario, worst case scenario and finally the big one: where is the point where we find peace with our decision.

[joannqn]

:grouphug:

 

I don't have any answers but I'm in the same place only I have four kids rather than seven.

[tonya in sc]

Go with what your husband says in this area. If he thinks you have enough on your plate right now, trust him. God gave you your husband as both provider AND protector. Let him protect you. That's not to say you can't pray for your husband's mind to change...

 

Btw, I would say to go with your husband if he was saying he wanted another child, too.

 

Blessings,

tonya

[Orthodox6]

I sent you a PM.

[tonya in sc]

God can overcome any birth control we can come up with. His will is always accomplished. We can't thwart Him. :001_smile:

 

:grouphug:

[Rosy]

I wouldn't try to convince him if you've already shared your perspective. I would continue in prayer that the Lord would give you unity on this issue (which I'm sure you already are).

 

For us, we have chosen to limit our family size and we don't believe it has anything to do with trusting/not trusting God. However, I do believe that God leads some people to forsake birth control. But before I got to that point, I used to browbeat my husband and challenge him to find scriptures that supported his desire to use birth control. He refused to go there. Eventually God led us through my husband to stop having kids biologically. All that to say, keep praying. I prayed like crazy for God to change my husband, He changed me instead. :)

[angela in ohio]

How do I convince dh or do I? Is that God's job?

 

God's job. You can pray for God to show your husband His will (which may or may not be in agreement with your will,) but don't ruin your marriage over this! :grouphug:

 

It seems that 'trusting God for family size' often seems to only equal 'as many children as possible' for people. (I know those pumping themselves fulll of drugs to have more dc in the name of God's will.) Maybe God doesn't want you to have more children, and this IS His method of doing that.

Edited May 3, 2010 by angela in ohio

[dangermom]

I'd make it a matter of prayer. If God tells you you're done, then that's good enough for me. For myself, I don't think BC is a problem if I've had that message. We only have two and I expected more, but we got a clear message that we were done. And right after that my desire for children, which was always very strong, was taken away--which was a confirmation to me. So we went ahead and my husband got snipped. We feel that has been right for us.

 

I can't word it very well, but I guess I kind of feel like we shouldn't expect God to perform personal womb-closings for us if we've already had our answers and we know what His will is. We know how our bodies work and we know how to avoid too many pregnancies, unlike our ancestors who so often died because their bodies were worn out.

 

Now your answer might be very different for you, but at this point I'd say to make it a matter of prayer, and if God tells you to have another child, then OK. But if he doesn't--you may need to be taking care of the ones you already have and know you've been blessed and it is enough.

[JenC3]

Well mama, God has given me the ability to know my body and my limitations. Dh and I have never used an medical BC, just a condom every now and then. I have a planned each of my 3 and I would have more except that know my body is ready to move on. I feel like if I am trying to not have anymore and God wants me too, I'll get pg.

[TammyB]

My dh and I have had this very conversation recently and find ourselves completely in the same place as you and your husband.

[kmacnchs]

but I can't shake this feeling of conviction that we profess to trust God in EVERYTHING...except this. Why shouldn't we trust God for our family size, too?

 

This is EXACTLY what I believe. It is about trust and control. I want to be always in control of everything. It is how I was raised. If you do x, y will happen, period. 4 mo before I got married, God revealed to me that I am NOT in control and that HE is in control of EVERYTHING (incl. when & how many children we have). So, once that was settled, it was a matter of accepting that and walking in His will, not against it. For us, that means no bc and we are just in constant prayer over being in His will in this area. Until my baby at the time is 1, we try not to conceive (keeping up w/my cycle, etc.) and then once they reach 1, we pray about "trying", "not trying", "what do we do?!?!" After my last baby, I realized that for the first time in my life, I was completely content (didn't want more kids, was happy where we were in our lives, etc.) so that actually confused me; like, now what, God? God has made my body very predictable so I know EXACTLY when I am ovulating so it is difficult to "not know" if I am going to get pg. But that is exactly what I have been praying for - to not know - to not try or not try, for it to be a surprise, unexpected pgncy, if that is what He wanted. ALL that being said, I found out I am pg (due in Dec) - this is the first completely unexpected pgncy and I am SOO excited - I love seeing how God is in control!

 

Dh totally agrees that it is hypocritical to say we trust God when we really only trust Him for certain things. But he isn't ready to relinquish control in this area yet. He does NOT want more children. Yet he agrees that this is HIS will and not God's will.

 

Your dh sounds like me...

 

How do I convince dh or do I? Is that God's job? All I know is that our current method of bc is unsettling to me and ANY form of bc is unsettling to me these days. WWYD? I'm feeling so upset about this today.

 

It sounds like God is already working on your dh. He does not sound like he is being stiff-necked and it sounds like he is open to the molding of his will by God. From what you said, I believe God is, and will continue to, mold both of your wills to His. I think it is wonderful that you are constantly searching to make sure that your wills align w/God's. Praise the Lord that He is doing a work in your lives!

[justamouse]

All seven of my kids were conceived while I was on birth control (I went down the line). If God wants you to have a kid, you'll have one. ;)

 

THAT said, although I want another more than anything, I'm at a place where I don't want another. *g* I love babies, I love what they add to our family, I love babies and I love children--did I mention my ovaries spin every time I see a newborn? BUT, I'm loving the freedom I'm having with my Dh. Pretty soon we'll be able to go on a vacation alone, we'll be able to take the kids to bigger better places and I want that. I want time with my family that I have now. I want time with my Dh. I also know that my Dh doesn't want anymore though-he's in his upper 40s and the stress of providing is hard enough as it is. I want the man to retire one day, you know? Being in this inbetween place is hard. :grouphug::grouphug:

Edited May 3, 2010 by justamouse

[LisaC]

God can overcome any birth control we can come up with. His will is always accomplished. We can't thwart Him. :001_smile:

 

:grouphug:

:iagree: We took "permanent" measures to prevent us from having other children after two. We did so because we felt like it was the prudent thing to do with our income ( and the list goes on . . .) I had always really wanted four, but I felt like that was an in-a-perfect-world scenario. At what was probably the most inopportune time possible, and five years after out "permanent" decision, I just felt a stirring in my heart. I told the Lord that I felt like my husband and I made that decision without consulting Him about what He wanted for our family. I asked God to make our family what He wanted it to be (honestly thinking nothing would change). That month I got pregnant with number three, and two years later, we had number 4. At this point, I feel like I am deeply satisfied with my family, and I think that satisfaction comes from the Lord. We are currently taking precautions not to have more children and will take permanent measures again when we can. As far as trusting God in our family, I trust him to speak to our hearts and to help us feel satisfied when we are at a stopping place. And I trust Him to override our precautions if He has other plans. I trust God to keep my body healthy, but I eat right and rest and exercise--that's my part. I trust God to keep me safe, but I do my part in that I do not purposely put myself in danger. I feel like reproduction is the same thing. Bodies were made to reproduce--I feel like if I am truly satisfied, my husband and I are in agreement, and I trust God to continue to make my family what He wants it to be, then taking measures not to have another child (which is my part in God's making my family what He wants it to be) is okay with God. I realize this is just an opinion, and I am certainly not trying to tell you God's plan for your family, but I have had the same struggle. I want very much to enjoy the intimacy of my marriage without worrying about what might happen. I feel very peaceful about this decision.

[Barb_]

I am 37...almost 38. I don't have many good childbearing years left.

 

Oh yes you do. You've been fertile all along so you won't likely struggle with infertility. The boards are full of stories of women having babies into their mid-late 40's. My neighbor was was fully into peri-menopause...skipping periods and everything in her late 30's. She conceived her miracle baby at 40, I believe, and she said her fertility kicked into high gear. She had another 3 years of regular periods after that. Can you handle another 2-4 children? Because realistically, that is a possibility.

 

It isn't selfish to want to stop having children for the reasons you mention, Sue. It sounds like your health and safety depend on it.

 

Barb

 

ETA this::grouphug:

[happi duck]

I think that God can lead a couple to use bc.

[ScoutTN]

I don't believe that using bc necessarily means you aren't trusting God anymore than using modern medicine (or ancient for that matter - I'm a fan of accupuncture.) for healing or medical help means that.

 

As other have said, I'd go with your husband. Unity is vital. Pray, pray pray until you both are at peace and of like mind.

 

I'm 44 and would have loved several more, but it seems not to be. This life is a pilgrimage...never easy.

[martinswife]

I have been feeling the same way you have. My PG history has been 1 miscarriage and 3 c-sections. The 3 c-sections were all for medical reasons and not because I chose them that way. Because doctors don't recommend more than 3 c-secs because of the danger involved I resolved myself to just my 3 dds. Mind you, I don't want another baby because I want the "coveted" boy. I love my dds and wouldn't trade them for the world. Lately, I have been feeling like maybe I should have another because I look at my little ones and I love them so much and feel like "why not?". Yet, I know God could keep me safe during the delivery, but what if it's His will to take me home? Then what happens to my dds and dh because of this? I feel like I would be tempting God and wanting Him to do my will instead of His. I believe He has given doctors the wisdom to care for us. So if they say 3 is enough for c-secs, then maybe I should listen. I'm not even sure I want a 4th. I didn't even want a 3rd after my 2nd dd, but only because the postportem was a trial. She stopped breathing after she was born, she was in NICU for 2 weeks, severely jaundiced, born with AB Blood Incompatability, my incision busted open because I had a major infection and thus it took me 8 more weeks to heal verses the original 4 or so. God worked in my heart after a couple of years and gave me the desire for my 3rd. What a blessing! Everything turned out peachy.

[StephanieZ]

I understand your unsettled feeling, and I wanted more dc but dh said nope. . . Religion doesn't come in to play for us in that area, but it was a heartfelt difference of opinion and it was hard to accept. . . still is, even though the decision is permanently made and so it's just a matter of me accepting it in my heart. . .

 

That said. . . I think one can look at bc like you'd look at many other ways we take actions to alter/adjust the natural laws, and as a means God gives us to do His will, just like vaccines, antibiotics, surgery, etc. . . Personally, I believe that God gives us minds and one of our highest duties to God and to self is to use our minds for both the greater good and for our own best interests. I don't see that using bc is any different in God's eye than using antibiotics to stop a deadly infection or CPR to restart a silent heart. It is God's place to begin and end life. . . but we do things all the time to help God's will along. . . fertility treatments, CPR, antibiotics, bc . . . In my eye they are all tools God gave us (through the minds of people) to make our lives better.

 

People misuse God's tools. . . People use them well. . . Tools are just tools, they are not moral/immoral/right/wrong in and of themselves. I.e., "Guns don't kill people. . . People kill people."

 

I would think that perhaps you could consider looking at bc this way and perhaps that might give you some peace? If you are able remove the discomfort about bc itself, and consider purely your/dh/God's will for whether you are to have additional children, perhaps that would allow you to come to a good decision that you can feel at peace with?

 

FWIW, I think I am one of those women who'd "never have enough." I adore babies, loved being pregnant, and would probably have felt sad when my childbearing years were over whether it was after 5 or 10 kids, just as I do now with my 3. . . Of course, I might have also been put in a nuthouse after 5 or 7, but I'd still have been sad, lol. . .

 

HTH

[Aubrey]

I completely understand, & I do NOT have an answer. I agree w/ those who said not to try to convince your dh--I'd want something like that to be a decision we *both* "owned" if it happened, kwim?

 

I also disagree w/ the idea that God can overcome any bc we use. (This is *exactly* how I thought starting out, though.) Sure, He *can.* He can also make us into robots who obey Him. Instead, though, we have the choice to sin. (Not that bc is sin--just that you can't make decisions based on the idea that God will "make it right" if you mess up.)

 

All I can tell you is where we are for now. Nothing permanent, nothing chemical (no abortificents, or however you spell that, lol). W/ #1, God told me we were going to have a baby. We planned #2 & #3, & God told me when #4 was coming.

 

After #4, I told God how I felt--overwhelmed, under-financed. :001_smile: My heart is open to His will, & He has always been so patient & kind to lead us--I asked Him to simply keep leading us. I can have faith for 1dc at a time, but not infinite. So while I feel "done," I could be warmed up to the idea of 1 more, if I felt I'd heard the Lord.

 

It's not just-use-your-brain, & it's not pure faith, but it's where I am, & I feel like...God is happy with me, if that makes sense. Sometimes I feel him laughing at me for various things, like the fervor w/ which I gave away my maternity clothes when C was born. :lol: But there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ, right? Pray. If you're not ready to hand this part of your life over to God *in the way that quiverful people do,* tell Him so. If it's what He wants, He can change your heart. If it's NOT, I believe He'll give you peace about that, too.

 

Many things are good & not nec right. Carried to an extreme, some good things become wrong. Is child-bearing among these? For some people, definitely! For some, maybe not? Most of us are in a gray area, though, & have to listen to the Lord rather than simply follow black-and-white rules. It's trickier, but I think that's what the Holy Spirit is for.

 

Now. I hope *sincerely* that I've managed to say all of this w/out offending anyone. I really *don't* have any answers--all of this is *descriptive* of where dh & I are, NOT *prescriptive* of what I think other people ought to do. And any time I talk about these things, I have the whispers of Catholic friends in my head. I deeply respect their views on these matters, too, fwiw.

[Greeny]

I know a lot of families that have struggled with the same thing you are. We all have things we struggle with. I think we all just have to come to a point in realizing that due to our sin nature we are incapable of perfection, which includes perfectly loving and obeying God Admitting to that and repenting about it is what will set you free.

[InHisGrip]

Go with what your husband says in this area. If he thinks you have enough on your plate right now, trust him. God gave you your husband as both provider AND protector. Let him protect you. That's not to say you can't pray for your husband's mind to change...

 

Btw, I would say to go with your husband if he was saying he wanted another child, too.

 

Yes.

 

God's job. You can pray for God to show your husband His will (which may or may not be in agreement with your will,)...

 

Yes again.

 

To me, this is the beauty of biblical submission. When I am unclear about something that in Scripture is not plainly spelled out and that I feel Christians have freedom in, then I just rest assured that God is leading through my husband and I relax in that. It is very freeing. And, I would dismiss any voice that wasn't from God that was whispering to me "You don't really trust God if you...." (fill in the blank). Conviction from God brings energy and an excitement that He is going to do something new in your life - condemnation and negative voices lead to confusion and feelings that we aren't measuring up in God's eyes. We are measured up, baby - in Christ. And yes, you know that deep down, you trust Him. Richest blessings to you & your family.

[TravelingChris]

I have three. I think I did trust God. He allowed me to get a disease which got bad enough that I needed to go on strong drugs which are not appropriate for having babies. He trusted me with children who have medical issues that need my time and energy which is diminished from my disease. He didn't have me get pregnant in the times we were open to other children and I believe if we were supposed to have had more than three, he would have sent them before I needed to be on the medications. I didn't have any more and we made the decision permanent about 3 years ago when we were 44. Soon after that I was put on medications which were even stronger and would cause birth defects if I got pregnant. No, it wasn't because of my dh's decision but rather the course of my disease. It just was an easier decision to make since I didn't have worries about an unborn life.

 

I have felt complete peace about our decision and do think it was God's will for us.

[smrtmama]

God can overcome any birth control we can come up with. His will is always accomplished. We can't thwart Him. :001_smile:

 

:grouphug:

 

I'm not a Christian, but I do believe in God, and this is my belief. I think the inherent flaw in the "if we use birth control, we aren't trusting God" argument is that it assumes that God's power can somehow be limited by (wo)man's action. Can an omnipotent God really be so easily thwarted?

 

We're looking at permanent birth control options now, but we know that if there's another baby meant to join our family, s/he will, and while a vasectomy offers a high degree of certainty, it's by no means an absolute.

[Sue G in PA]

Thanks everyone. A few things: 1. I would never go against what my dh wants or doesn't want...esp. in this area. He would have to be 100% on board for us to ever consider having more children. 2. If he prays about it (and he is) and comes back and says, Nope, we are done, God said so then I will be okay with that. 3. I don't feel like we are done. I want more children. However, if God chooses not to bless us with more then I am okay with that, too. I am blessed with my 7. 4. We all get overwhelmed at times as parents. That is life. That wouldn't prevent me from having more.

 

It is a difficult thing. This certainly would not ruin our marriage, though. That is a blessing. Thanks for all the opinions and comments. :)

[babysparkler]

Go with what your husband says in this area. If he thinks you have enough on your plate right now, trust him. God gave you your husband as both provider AND protector. Let him protect you. That's not to say you can't pray for your husband's mind to change...

 

Btw, I would say to go with your husband if he was saying he wanted another child, too.

 

Blessings,

tonya

 

Side note: Thank you for saying this Tonya. My Dh insisted on a vastectomy 3 years ago when our 4th child was born. I didn't agree with it, didn't want it at all, and shared all of my thoughts/feelings with Dh. He is a very understanding and reasonable man, but he really felt like this was best for all of us, and he decided that it was what we needed to do. I told him that I would trust him on it and agree to the procedure (the wife has to sign off on it) because God has placed him in this provider/protector role. Now 3 years later I am still struggling with it, and praying for God to soothe me in my grief about it. I trust my husband, and will follow his leadership in this matter... I really want to be on the same page. I know that if it is God's will for us to have more children, He will put it on my Dh's heart to reverse the procedure (or He will just overcome that obstacle as I know God can easily do)... and if my family is complete, I know that God will bring me to that place along with my husband. Thank you for your reassuring words. :001_smile:

Edited May 3, 2010 by babysparkler

[InHisGrip]

I want more children...It is a difficult thing.

 

I understand. :grouphug: I want more, too, but dh didn't/doesn't and had a vasectomy. It's hard knowing that there will be no more little babies to hold, nurse, etc. I didn't know that the feelings of closure/loss would be so strong in me. I have a very bad memory, but one that is burned in my mind is the day my dh took the crib apart and we got rid of it. I just stood at the doorway watching him work on taking it apart and feeling stunned that we had gone through that part of our lives and it was now over. It seemed like it flew. It did.

 

Praying that God will bring you both to unity in this matter.

[kmacnchs]

I'm not a Christian, but I do believe in God, and this is my belief. I think the inherent flaw in the "if we use birth control, we aren't trusting God" argument is that it assumes that God's power can somehow be limited by (wo)man's action. Can an omnipotent God really be so easily thwarted?

 

I think it is more wanting to walk WITH God in His will/plan rather than against Him. His plans are not going to be thwarted but I want to be walking with Him as His sovereign will takes place rather than against Him...does that explain it better? It has more to do w/my heart than w/God's plans.

[Sue G in PA]

I think it is more wanting to walk WITH God in His will/plan rather than against Him. His plans are not going to be thwarted but I want to be walking with Him as His sovereign will takes place rather than against Him...does that explain it better? It has more to do w/my heart than w/God's plans.

 

I think that is how I am feeling. I KNOW that God can overcome anything...even birth control. But this is more a matter of where my heart it with God. Am I trying to retain all control or am I relinquishing it to God to let Him accomplish HIS will in my life? Or, am I giving Him just enough control so that I can still have my way but make it SEEM like He is having His? Does that makes sense? A good friend who knew me well sensed that I had issues giving up control to God. She told me that she thought when I gave my life to Christ that I gave him about "this much" (held up thumb and pointer finger about an inch apart)...just enough to be saved but not enough to really surrender control. It hurt...but she was right. FWIW, dh has really been praying about this.

[Carrie12345]

I'm an atheist, but I absolutely believe the "forces of nature" (or what have you) will do as they please, regardless of our intentions.

 

Why?

 

Because, in my 9.5 yrs of marriage, there has been exactly 1 instance of unprotected sex that did not lead to conception. I've conceived 6 times in that period (not including the child I brought into the marriage). Two were "intentional". One was before resuming my cycle, one was a really good vacation night ;), one was with an IUD, and the most recent one was one evening, one fallopian tube, and a 45-55% chance of ever having an embryo implant in my uterus.

 

I never quite *wanted* to have a large family, but that's what life has given me, and I'm very accepting of it. My philosophy also helps me to accept my 2 losses.

 

Now, if I somehow go on to have more after "permanent" measures, I want a special crown. Intentional large families may have great fertility, but I think mine is completely "other worldly"! A V-baby would completely fail to shock me at this point.

[LisaKinVA]

God can overcome any birth control we can come up with. His will is always accomplished. We can't thwart Him. :001_smile:

 

:grouphug:

 

This I *know* is true...at least twice in my case.

[Brigitte]

It sounds like God is already working on your dh. He does not sound like he is being stiff-necked and it sounds like he is open to the molding of his will by God. From what you said, I believe God is, and will continue to, mold both of your wills to His. I think it is wonderful that you are constantly searching to make sure that your wills align w/God's. Praise the Lord that He is doing a work in your lives!

 

:iagree:

[BeckyFL]

let him lead. He is your covering. Just relax, rest and trust God to lead you through your husband.

[momofkhm]

How do I convince dh or do I? Is that God's job? All I know is that our current method of bc is unsettling to me and ANY form of bc is unsettling to me these days. WWYD? I'm feeling so upset about this today.

 

You don't convince dh! If it is God's will, He will change dh's mind!

 

My story - we had our second child. I can't remember how old she was but we went through the stuff so dh could get a V. Suddenly, I didn't think we were finished having kids. DH did agree that he didn't want more now but what about later, so no V. I stupidly took it as now I can get pg. But it was 1999. DH did not want a newborn or even me pg at all on the year change. Remember all the Y2K stuff about everything breaking?

 

In December of 1999, I asked my Bible Study group to pray that dh be in agreement about a third child, no mention of I want, he doesn't, just that we be in united agreement. In January, dh said we could try, until his birthday in July. If I wasn't pg by then, he would get a V. I got pg that month so that by the time we had prayer updates at Bible study, I could tell them that we were in agreement to have a third child, AND I was pregnant. That was the shortest time trying we ever had. I now have a 9 1/2 yo boy watching Star Wars on the floor behind me.

 

If it's time for dh to change his mind, God will do it.

[spradlin02]

But I guess I would ask isn't there freewill somewhere in this equation. Hasn't God given us the freedom to make decisions in our lives, then we live out the consequences of those decisions we make?

[Laurie4b]

Do you see wearing seatbelts in a car or of having a fire alarm in the house as incompatible with trusting God to keep you safe? Do you see buying insurance as incompatible with trusting God to take care of your financial needs? Do you see taking medicine when you are sick as incompatible with trusting God to heal you?

[Impish]

Wolf is 'no more birthed babies' stance.

 

He's completely for adoption.

 

Which blows me away, because he was absolutely against more kids before ("We have enough kids, how can we handle more? You want another baby, I'll get you a puppy, ok?") and is now totally for adoption.

 

I've never felt our family was 'finished'. Be it by birth or adoption (or both!) I feel that God has more children to guide into our family.

 

We're just waiting to see where we're led, and taking no precautions any which way, other than a dim, 'what day of the cycle is this' thought now and then.

[Aubrey]

But I guess I would ask isn't there freewill somewhere in this equation. Hasn't God given us the freedom to make decisions in our lives, then we live out the consequences of those decisions we make?

 

"Freewill" means that we're free to sin, too, though. Some people question whether bc is free will moving *toward* God or *away from.*

[Aubrey]

Do you see wearing seatbelts in a car or of having a fire alarm in the house as incompatible with trusting God to keep you safe? Do you see buying insurance as incompatible with trusting God to take care of your financial needs? Do you see taking medicine when you are sick as incompatible with trusting God to heal you?

 

Preventing death is different from preventing life. Curing illness is different from "curing" reproduction.

 

I'm not necessarily against bc, I just think it's important to understand the argument that some people have against it.

[astrid]

God can overcome any birth control we can come up with. His will is always accomplished. We can't thwart Him. :001_smile:

 

:grouphug:

 

Even abstinence? ;)

 

astrid

[*********]

I didn't read all the replies, so forgive me if this has been mentioned...

 

I don't really see 'trusting God for your family size' as ALWAYS meaning not using any form of birth control. I mean, God set up the laws of the universe; one of them is that if you have s3x without any form of birth control, you are possibly going to get pregnant. It's just a law of nature, that God put in to place. It doesn't necessarily mean that you're supposed to have as many children as humanly possible just because you keep having s3x without birth control. How many children you have, and if you use birth control or not, is something you and your dh should agree on. And, IMHO, if there is a disagreement, then in *my family, my dh would have the final say, being as he is the head of our home.

 

You know, you wouldn't just jump off out of a plane without a parachute and say 'I trust God to save me and not let me die when I hit the ground'. He *could do that; but he has put in to place the law of gravity, that says that you're likely gonna be a pancake if you jump out of a plane without a parachute. Same thing with procreation; you're likely gonna end up pregnant if you have s3x without birth control.

 

To me, birth control or not is not about trusting God. Pray, talk to your husband, and together follow what you feel is God's plan for your family.

 

Just my $0.02.

[*********]

Even abstinence? ;)

 

astrid

 

Well, if I recall correctly, he did do that ONCE... :001_smile:

[silliness7]

Preventing death is different from preventing life. Curing illness is different from "curing" reproduction.

 

I'm not necessarily against bc, I just think it's important to understand the argument that some people have against it.

 

:iagree: Getting pregnant is not the same as getting cancer. Life is GOOD. Death is BAD.

 

I feel for your situation OP.:grouphug: And I have no advice to offer. We've struggled with this off and on over the years as well. We claimed we were done with each one since #3 and now we have 7. I'm not particularly in the market for #8.

 

I can't imagine what life would be like without any of the little lives that we've been blessed with thus far and sometimes I wonder what little person are we missing out on because of our willful actions.

 

Deep down I don't think we are officially done but we are definitely on hiatus for financial reasons. And I'm 37 going on 38 too. If we push it too long we could end up being done and that makes me sad. :crying:

[Jenny in GA]

Oh yes you do. You've been fertile all along so you won't likely struggle with infertility.

 

 

Probably, but not necessarily. I was very fertile and went through menopause suddenly and quickly at age 38. My son had barely turned one at the time.

 

Not the norm, of course, but not unheard of either.

 

Jenny

[Plucky]

My view is that God wants me to care for my children as best I can. I've had the desire to have more, but 4 is really the most I can care for and give my best to. Trying to interact one-on-one is challenging and meeting needs and really listening to them when they need it. I do think I'm able to meet these 4 kids' needs. I have a friend with 8 kids that has happy, thriving children and is awesome. I couldn't do that with 8. Are you able to care for another child in the way you think God wants you to?

[Laurie4b]

Preventing death is different from preventing life. Curing illness is different from "curing" reproduction.

 

I'm not necessarily against bc, I just think it's important to understand the argument that some people have against it.

 

I actually do understand the argument. We did not use birth control ourselves for a number of years. My point is that in the "to use birth control" or "not to use birth control" debate, people tend to use standards that they don't use elsewhere: ie that human intervention is akin to "not trusting God." Is having a child always the greatest good?

 

I believe that God is the healer and that he often heals through traditional medical care, though I know personally two people who were healed instantly through prayer. However, there are some religious groups who, because of the fact that there are sometimes miraculous healings, believe it is "not trusting God" to seek medical care. Don't they have a point, as well? How can a human being know that it is a good for a person to survive? isn't going to heaven better than staying here? Might there be times when a person looks back after medical treatment and because of certain circumstances of life thinks it would have been better to have died and gone on to heaven? Under this kind of thinking, one can see why some groups would tend to leave the healing up to the natural processes of the body or God's intervention. (I don't believe this, but similar categories of arguments to the "Trust God to control family size are used.)

 

There are religious groups who believe it is "not trusting God" to have insurance, etc. and that families should trust to his provision alone if the bread winner dies. Is being poor bad? Not according to Scripture? But buying insurance is an attempt to make sure that your family is not poor if a breadwinner dies.

 

I also find that because Scripture says that children are a gift from the LORD that people then make a jump to say that the birth of a child is an absolute good--in fact, the ultimate good for a married woman--one that overrides other considerations. Thus to use birth control is wrong. Scripture also says that there are spiritual gifts given to people, but then goes on to proscribe times when they should be used. The gift of tongues, for instance, wasn't to be used when there was no intepreter. Always, the gifts are to be employed for the building up of the body--the greater good of the body. No gift is an end to itself. I think the same is true for having babies. I don't believe it is wrong for a human couple to consider the greater good--of impact on the woman's health, on her mental health, impact on the rest of the family, etc. in their choices. I think it is within Christian doctrine to weigh the choice to have a child with the good of the entire family.

 

I think it helps people to consider the issue of birth control in the larger issue of whether human intervention is akin to interfering with God's will. I have known families in which I thought the "trust God for the size of your family" approach was hiding some other issues and that family members were being harmed because of it. The OP states she struggles with depression, for instance. Using birth control in this instance could be said to be preventing a level of stress that could trigger a bout of debilitating depression, which would affect not only the mother but the children. Using birth control might be said to prevent a situation in which the number of children exceeded the capacity to provide optimal care for them in their particular situation, etc.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Laurie4b

[Nestof3]

I believe the reproductive system is a system just like the others. It works according to biological laws. You need sperm and an egg to make a baby. A person will not conceive unless there is an egg present when the sperm enter the female. Women's bodies are not always predictable, nor are condoms, hormone pills, etc. always fool-proof.

 

If a man and woman never have sex (or use fertility treatments), conception will not happen. It is a fact. If a man and woman do have sex, there is a possibility conception will occur. That too is a fact. The same thing is true in the mammal world.

 

Thousands of years ago, fertility issues were untreatable compared to today. Now, there are drugs to help with this and even invitro fertilization. Eggs and sperm can be taken from a person and saved for later use. These facts show that man has control over the womb.

 

When considering having another child, I think wisdom should be used. How is a couple handling the ones they have -- mentally, physically, financially? I don't think a couple should add more responsibility unless the couple is able to adequately care for the ones they are already responsible for. I think sometimes women need to give up desires for another baby if it's in the best interest of the family -- this includes the husband and wife.

 

I also think that those of us taking on the educational training of our children have a much greater burden and need to take this seriously. People are very much responsible for their children, and I think we need to be sure we can provide the things are children deserve.

Edited May 4, 2010 by nestof3

[Impish]

Even abstinence? ;)

 

astrid

Well, there was one time...

[Nestof3]

If you are referring to Mary, her conception was by the Holy Spirit. There is a huge difference.

 

Well, there was one time...