Are there reasons I shouldn't consider AoPS for this summer?

[at the beach]

My dd is 13, going into 8th. We're considering Algebra 1 for this summer with AoPS. I'm wondering when the AoPS classes potentially are not a good fit. She did fine with the placement test, fwiw.

 

I wouldn't even be considering it if she wasn't already a highly motivated academically oriented kiddo to begin with. But I wonder if it's possibly too much, too fast? Would it possibly be better to just wait till fall and have her do Lial's and use the summer to do some prep work for that, like maybe Keys to Algebra? Or might she love it and by not signing her up I'm not giving her an opportunity I should be. :confused:

 

I know no one can make a decision for me but evidently that's what I want! :tongue_smilie: And maybe it would help me to just hear others perspectives on what they would do. TIA for any insights.

[Rebecca VA]

My daughter tried AoPS Algebra I last summer and dropped it after two weeks. She was younger than your daughter (going into 7th grade last summer). I thought she would be ready since she had done extremely well in arithmetic and pre-algebra.

 

What we found was that concepts weren't explained in a slow and steady way. She needed to be taught algebra bit by bit, experiencing success along the way. Instead, she felt thrown into something she wasn't prepared to handle. She could get parts of problems, but the big picture was escaping her, and the fast pace terrified her. (She already has processing speed issues, which we're working on, but I thought her math skills were sufficient to deal with the rapid, competitive atmosphere at AoPS. I was wrong.)

 

The staff at AoPS was extremely helpful and kind. They were quick to give a refund. The online teacher was nice. I would not hesitate to recommend the courses to a student who thrives on math thrown at him/her at a very rapid pace, and I might have my daughter use them again some other time -- for a review after she's learned the material beforehand.

[MBM]

My dd is 13, going into 8th. We're considering Algebra 1 for this summer with AoPS. I'm wondering when the AoPS classes potentially are not a good fit. She did fine with the placement test, fwiw.

 

I wouldn't even be considering it if she wasn't already a highly motivated academically oriented kiddo to begin with. But I wonder if it's possibly too much, too fast? Would it possibly be better to just wait till fall and have her do Lial's and use the summer to do some prep work for that, like maybe Keys to Algebra? Or might she love it and by not signing her up I'm not giving her an opportunity I should be. :confused:

 

I know no one can make a decision for me but evidently that's what I want! :tongue_smilie: And maybe it would help me to just hear others perspectives on what they would do. TIA for any insights.

 

If you have the book, your daughter could try working through a few chapters already to see how she likes the material and pace. The AoPS syllabus will give you an idea how quickly they cover topics. We have found that the first chapters are usually easy, but then they start to get tougher.

 

AoPS will refund your money if you unenroll before the third class, too.

 

HTH! :)

 

PS: It is much better to bite off and chew well like Rebecca mentions. Go at the pace that is right for your child. If your daughter takes the class, I'd recommend working on problems as soon as possible after the class so that if she has a question, she can ask one of the teachers (who are wonderful, btw) or even a fellow classmate. My husband is able to help our son, and that has been tremendously helpful.

Edited April 29, 2010 by MBM
Added some info

[Pam in MA]

We decided to run through AoPS Algebra after completing Foerster's Algebra (8th grade) as a reinforcement/review. We've also abandoned it after a few weeks. . . too hard for my concrete thinking daughter! Not a lot of explanation of concepts for her, and she was already familiar with Algebra. I think you need a mature, intuitive math kid for this program to stand alone, and be prepared to explain a lot of concepts if they aren't getting it all.

[at the beach]

Thanks, ladies! Your comments are much appreciated. :001_smile:

[at the beach]

We decided to run through AoPS Algebra after completing Foerster's Algebra (8th grade) as a reinforcement/review. We've also abandoned it after a few weeks. . . too hard for my concrete thinking daughter! Not a lot of explanation of concepts for her, and she was already familiar with Algebra. I think you need a mature, intuitive math kid for this program to stand alone, and be prepared to explain a lot of concepts if they aren't getting it all.

 

Wow, your daughter completed Foerster's and struggled with AoPS after that? That really gives me pause. How did your daughter do with Foerster's if you don't mind me asking? I haven't totally decided on this yet but I am leaning towards just waiting a bit to launch her into something like AoPS. I wouldn't want to see her whole summer spent on math only, for one thing.

[Jen in NY]

Hi Violet,

 

We have had great experiences with AoPS: my daughter took number theory last summer. It blew her mind completely, was really hard, and she spent a couple of hours most days puzzling through it. The concepts were unfamiliar and my math major husband was amazed at what they were throwing around --- stuff he didn't get to until 200-300 level courses in college.

 

That being said, this was the thing that completely and utterly turned my daughter onto math. We had to coach this perfectionist daughter through the fact that AoPS is designed to challenge kids that are good at math, and they do *not* expect every kid to get every problem... and that took a little convincing, but she really sunk her teeth into the "math can be a never ending puzzle and everyone can puzzle it out in their own way" philosophy. She joined the math circle at our local univ. She signed up for the AoPS geometry last fall (just finished up--- loved that, too). She walked into the AMC 10 with no prep and scored above average: and now she is psyched to prep for next year --- her new goal is to qualify for the AIME. Seriously, this girl was only lukewarm for math before AoPS --- now she's on fire.

 

You say your daugher is a "highly motivated academically oriented kiddo" --- I would say this describes my dd#1 to a "t," so AoPS might be just the thing for her.

 

FWIW, even after all that, my dd is signed up for Algebra 1 this summer... starting June 1. She has already done Jacob's, but it's been a year and I wouldn't want her swimming in the unfamiliar waters of AoPS Alegbra 2 without some review. So she will be in there, and I am sure if your daughter wanted to have a study buddy my dd would love it. The teachers are super responsive and walked my daughter through every geo question she had this year. And if it's not a good fit, AoPS is great about letting people drop within the first three weeks.

 

Here is a link to the founder of AoPS, Richard Rusczyk, speaking about math education at a math conference for girls.

 

http://mathprize.atfoundation.org/archive/2009/rusczyk

 

Enjoy!!

And forgive me for the infomercial! :)

[Pam in MA]

She did fine with Foerster's but I was concerned about her long term retention and I just had a vague sense that she wasn't quite getting it all. She did fine on all the homework, tests, quizzes, etc., earning a solid B+, but she's not very mature in the abstract thinking department and I thought a little more work with Algebra would help her. I also think a large part of what she needed was confidence, and some of the problems in AoPS were really tough (and I was a math major in college, btw) and made her feel inadequate. We both loved Foerster's book, though. So I don't know about your situation; my dd is not that mathy a kid, but she works very hard at it.

 

HTH!

[8filltheheart]

I love AoPS. But, I am going to give you a mixed answer.

 

First, the placement test is in no way indicative of just how difficult the courses get. Those are the minimum skills required. The class starts off with simpler concepts and ratchets them up quickly.

 

Second, the content is excellent. The problems are definitely challenging and stretch their understanding. My ds feels a sense of victory when he figures them out!!

 

That said.......the pace is fast. I have opted for him not to do the online pre-cal course in the fall. It is only a single semester course. Instead, I have decided to use the book, but take the whole yr to cover it. This will give him more time to explore some other math topics he is interested in. He currently has Teaching Co's discrete Mmath and probability courses that he wants to watch.

 

My ds is taking their alg 3 course right now and it goes through Aug. He is allotting 1 1/2 hrs/day during the week for the work. (The class has been meeting since Mar 4, so he has a fairly good grasp of how much time he needs.)

 

My recommendation would be to order the book and look through it and compare the chapter content to the syllabus and see if you think the pace would be a good fit for her.

 

(FWIW......I am the one making the decision for my ds and the pre-cal. He wanted to take both their pre-cal and cal courses next yr. I gave him free rein on setting up his workload this yr and he really overloaded himself. He is handling it fine b/c he LOVES math. (this yr he has taken alg 2, counting & probability, alg 3, and prepared for Math Counts) However, I am concerned b/c he doesn't have balance. It has encroached on his just being a teenage boy.)

[at the beach]

She did fine with Foerster's but I was concerned about her long term retention and I just had a vague sense that she wasn't quite getting it all. She did fine on all the homework, tests, quizzes, etc., earning a solid B+, but she's not very mature in the abstract thinking department and I thought a little more work with Algebra would help her. I also think a large part of what she needed was confidence, and some of the problems in AoPS were really tough (and I was a math major in college, btw) and made her feel inadequate. We both loved Foerster's book, though. So I don't know about your situation; my dd is not that mathy a kid, but she works very hard at it.

 

HTH!

 

Thank you! Very helpful info. I appreciate your time.

[at the beach]

I love AoPS. But, I am going to give you a mixed answer.

 

First, the placement test is in no way indicative of just how difficult the courses get. Those are the minimum skills required. The class starts off with simpler concepts and ratchets them up quickly.

 

Second, the content is excellent. The problems are definitely challenging and stretch their understanding. My ds feels a sense of victory when he figures them out!!

 

That said.......the pace is fast. I have opted for him not to do the online pre-cal course in the fall. It is only a single semester course. Instead, I have decided to use the book, but take the whole yr to cover it. This will give him more time to explore some other math topics he is interested in. He currently has Teaching Co's discrete Mmath and probability courses that he wants to watch.

 

My ds is taking their alg 3 course right now and it goes through Aug. He is allotting 1 1/2 hrs/day during the week for the work. (The class has been meeting since Mar 4, so he has a fairly good grasp of how much time he needs.)

 

My recommendation would be to order the book and look through it and compare the chapter content to the syllabus and see if you think the pace would be a good fit for her.

 

(FWIW......I am the one making the decision for my ds and the pre-cal. He wanted to take both their pre-cal and cal courses next yr. I gave him free rein on setting up his workload this yr and he really overloaded himself. He is handling it fine b/c he LOVES math. (this yr he has taken alg 2, counting & probability, alg 3, and prepared for Math Counts) However, I am concerned b/c he doesn't have balance. It has encroached on his just being a teenage boy.)

 

Thank you for your time! I hear you on wanting to make sure a child has time to be a kid. Your suggestion of having us look at the text is great. That's really probably the best way to figure things out. Thank you again.

[at the beach]

Hi Violet,

 

We have had great experiences with AoPS: my daughter took number theory last summer. It blew her mind completely, was really hard, and she spent a couple of hours most days puzzling through it. The concepts were unfamiliar and my math major husband was amazed at what they were throwing around --- stuff he didn't get to until 200-300 level courses in college.

 

That being said, this was the thing that completely and utterly turned my daughter onto math. We had to coach this perfectionist daughter through the fact that AoPS is designed to challenge kids that are good at math, and they do *not* expect every kid to get every problem... and that took a little convincing, but she really sunk her teeth into the "math can be a never ending puzzle and everyone can puzzle it out in their own way" philosophy. She joined the math circle at our local univ. She signed up for the AoPS geometry last fall (just finished up--- loved that, too). She walked into the AMC 10 with no prep and scored above average: and now she is psyched to prep for next year --- her new goal is to qualify for the AIME. Seriously, this girl was only lukewarm for math before AoPS --- now she's on fire.

 

You say your daugher is a "highly motivated academically oriented kiddo" --- I would say this describes my dd#1 to a "t," so AoPS might be just the thing for her.

 

FWIW, even after all that, my dd is signed up for Algebra 1 this summer... starting June 1. She has already done Jacob's, but it's been a year and I wouldn't want her swimming in the unfamiliar waters of AoPS Alegbra 2 without some review. So she will be in there, and I am sure if your daughter wanted to have a study buddy my dd would love it. The teachers are super responsive and walked my daughter through every geo question she had this year. And if it's not a good fit, AoPS is great about letting people drop within the first three weeks.

 

Here is a link to the founder of AoPS, Richard Rusczyk, speaking about math education at a math conference for girls.

 

http://mathprize.atfoundation.org/archive/2009/rusczyk

 

Enjoy!!

And forgive me for the infomercial! :)

 

Hi, Jen, Thank you for all your comments. I appreciate the infomercial. I'm still on the fence but I would love the option of my daughter having a study buddy. Would you mind if I send you a pm about that? I know my daughter would love it, too. I think we probably will sign her up so we can get the books and closely look at them. My college daughter will be home over the summer, so she will be here to help, too, if we go with the class. Thank you for the link. I have not had the chance to watch the whole thing yet but I plan to. ETA: Your comments with regard to your perfectionistic daughter fit my kid to a "t" as well. That was something I was worried about, too, that she would not like not being able to figure something out quickly, so thanks for sharing that, too!

Edited April 30, 2010 by Violet