how to explain RAD to friends

[Denisemomof4]

I could have written the OP just two years ago. I had to pull my oldest out of her dance classes and the kids worship team for the second year in a row and had to pull her from our homeschool co-op.

She still went with me to co-op and sat in the nusery with a book on CD. I explained to her teacher and the director of the co-op what was going on and left it at that.

It was a rough year. I think some of it had to do with approaching puberty. In talking to some other RAD moms they all noticed that things became harder for their girls around 10-11 years old.

Fortunatly this past year has smoothed everything out. She has become so responsible with her school work that she is working almost independently. While we have had some behavior issues it's nothing out of the ordinary for a 13yo girl.

She was never officially diagnosed with RAD. I found out a year after we adopted her when I was reading up on behavior issues trying to figure out what to do with this child.

I think she either had a very mild version or God has worked an incredible miracle. She has turned into a different child lately.

I am amazed at how much we did instinctively with her that others say was suggested by thier therapists.

I tell everyone about RAD. My friends were very understanding after I explained the issue. When I told my mom she began to notice things as well. It was very helpful to have so much support from people who were trying to understand the problem.

 

THIS GIVES ME HOPE!!!!!!!!! But it gets worse around 10???? :ohmy::svengo::svengo::svengo: Seriously, I'm hanging by the end of a very, VERY frayed thread. I can't take it getting any worse. But then again, it's because I'm not sleeping. I have been awaking at night with severe anxiety for about a week now. I'm SO exhausted.

 

I seriously need to print out the responses from all you wonderful ladies and read them DAILY to get the strength to do what i need. I need to return to a point of NOT allowing anyone's judgment make me feel anything but pity or numbness towards them.

[Ottakee]

If you want to email me privately (click on my name) I can see about getting you some help in your area. Friends of mine are highly trained attachment therapists and have connections all over the country. They might also be able to do some over the phone things and/or suggest resource materials for you. They are also actually traveling the country next year so might even be near you.

 

I am in no way diagnosing your daughter, etc. but check out http://www.bpkids.org http://www.bipolarchild.com and the book The Bipolar Child. Reading these would give you a good idea of if this might fit your daughter or not. Bipolar in kids looks very different than the "typical" manic/depression you see in adults.

 

http://www.jbrf.org/publicsurveys/signup.cfm?request=CBQ Here is a questionaire you can fill out. You need a prof. to score/evaluate it but it would give you a breakdown of a lot of behaviors.

 

 

Again, please feel free to email/pm me.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Ottakee

[Denisemomof4]

Is there anyone that can watch her while you and the other kids go to the co-op? This would have to be a NON fun person who could make life as boring as possible while you are gone. She could have a plain snack, sit at the table and do her work, do some chores, etc. NO TV, video games, friends, or "fun" with the sitter.

 

These people though are hard to find. If you are involved in a church, maybe you could find a young grandma/empty nester to give you a break. Even an older couple if she is likely to behave for them and they understand her issues.

 

I know you are really struggling and disruption is an option/possibility. I am not one to push meds as a first option but if there is underlying mental illness here, treating that might allow her to remain at home and things to get much better.

 

Spring is a terrible time for those iwth mental illness.

 

For some reason I have lost the ability to edit your post (bold, etc.) so I will just do it this way.....

 

 

Spring? Why do you say this? Because SUMMER is usually horrific with us, but this year spring is proving to throw me over the edge. Weather has been warmer, but we still have a schedule (the lack of a schedule ruins her so I plan to lightly school year round but *I* need a break int he summer!!!) but she's just out of control now. INHIBITED, but so passive aggressive and awful.

 

Someone you mention in your first paragraph would be worth her weight in gold. Literally. I need someone who won't be loving or charmed by her, because she will be so sneakily manipulative that even some of the best won't see it. And if anyone shows an OUNCE of affection towards her, I deal with th fallout of all the fantasies of her new parent, and the bad treatment for getting in the way of not allowing her to live with said new parent.

[Dobela]

I was a foster parent as well and had children with RAD. We also had an adoption fail due to RAD in both girls. We had one therapist that understood it and was wonderful, but another that had no clue. My life was a living nightmare at times. I have never been so tired mentally, physically or spiritually as I was with those 2 girls - and they were only 4 and 5 years old. Most people don't understand that a child with RAD thrives on creating chaos, and that they use the chaos to prevent bonding. One characteristic of a RAD child is an exhausted parent. My best friend has adopted 3 boys with varying degrees of RAD and it has been a very long hard road for her and her dh. They had another boy that they finally disrupted the adoption of after he injured her so badly that she required hospital care.

 

One group that was a great source of help and support for me is a yahoo group called RAD-FAS kids. It is a large active group. I am no longer a member, but I think they might help you find therapists and other resources in your area. It has members from all over and had thousands of members when I was a part. Some are living in situations much worse than yours but are still dedicated to the child. I was never around a more educated group of parents when it came to medications,treatments, discipline, and more. If nothing else, it was nice to write out my frustrations and have someone else say, "Yep, here too."

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

[Retired]

my daughter has publicly accused everyone in our family, but my other dd, of abusing her. If it weren't for this, I'd have her in public school AND the afterschool problem. But because of her lies of MANY things, the danger of it to my other kids, and the fact that she'd spiral out of control in school, it will never be an option.

 

I'm not sure I understand why mom keeping private turned out to be a bad situation. I'm really burnt out. Could you explain, please, as I seriously consider/weigh my options?

 

I didn't mean to add stress, I know these kids are a real challenge. I was friends with this women and kept her confidence. She did deal more harshly with discipline that to others seem to severe for the situation. The other moms were always coming up to me asking or making comments about how strict, mean, and uncaring. She basically was talked about all the time.

The other moms really didn't mean to be gossiping. They really thought she was to tough(never giving the child a break). That she just didn't love this kid enough. They weren't aware of the disorder and how the kid acted.

 

The situation with the child got worse and she continue to come to coop. It seemed to the other mom, like the child was always being punished. Then it lead to real accusation of abuse. The whole situation was just so unnecessary.

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

and prayers

[Jean in Newcastle]

Denise - :grouphug: I know how tired my friend is. I know how lifeless her voice is when she talks about her boys. I know how beaten down she feels - like she's a failure as a mom. And I know how it has made her feel like she's a failure in everything. :grouphug: I don't have answers. But I can tell you (as I've told my friend) that you are special. You are not a failure - as a mom or in other things.

[EthiopianFood]

Is residential treatment an option? What about an attachment center? Respite? :grouphug:

[Corraleno]

One thing I would not do is stay home with your DD while the older kids go to the coop ~ because that is giving her the power to punish you by depriving you of something you enjoy (and even need). I think that would be a huge reward for her and only make things worse. Better to have a few ignorant parents judge you unfairly than give your daughter that kind of power.

 

A member of my family adopted a child with RAD, and I saw first hand the amount of chaos, havoc, and misery a RAD child can wreak. In addition to the verbal and emotional abuse this child subjected her mother to, she destroyed her mothers things, cut up and/or urinated on her mother's clothes & furniture, told complete lies to other family members ~ all while acting like the most charming and adorable sweetheart to others. When her behavior didn't get enough of a reaction from her mother, she started to hurt the other children, knowing how much that would hurt her mother. Then she threatened to accuse the husband of s*xual abuse and send him to prison, which is when they felt they had no choice but to disrupt the adoption or lose their family.

 

The mother still feels terribly guilty about having "given up" on their adopted daughter, but she also knows that she unquestionably saved the childhoods of their other children ~ and possibly their lives. In the end she felt that she couldn't just totally sacrifice her marriage and her other children in the hope of helping one child, whose problems may have been so deep and irreparable that she could not be helped anyway. Sometimes people have to make terrible choices, and sometimes that choice is to stop trying to save one child in order to save several others. I can't imagine any choice a parent could be asked to make in life that would be more difficult than that. I'm just so, so sorry that you are having to go through this, and that your heartfelt desire to help a child has ended up having such a devastating effect on your family. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Jackie

[AK_Homesteaders]

My heart goes out to you. If you have anyone around you, even one person you can turn to for support, or just a shoulder to cry on, then you are fortunate. Most parents of RAD children are totally isolated. The children are charming. Extremely charming. They are manipulative and adored. The parents learn very quickly to just smile and pretend that life is delightful. If the parent even so much as hints that the child has done anything to deserve whatever consequences he is getting, then the parents are the bad guys. Most parents of RAD children have to suffer in silence and pretend everything is perfect. If they can't do that, then they risk losing every friend, and being isolated by family. It is terribly sad. These children can't help it. It isn't their fault. But, neither is it the fault of their parents who love them and are trying to help, and it isn't the fault of siblings or others in the home who have their lives disrupted and endangered because of the RAD child. Families who can keep it together while not endangering others in the home are to be applauded. You are a wonderful and amazing Mom.

[Denisemomof4]

I was a foster parent as well and had children with RAD. We also had an adoption fail due to RAD in both girls. We had one therapist that understood it and was wonderful, but another that had no clue. My life was a living nightmare at times. I have never been so tired mentally, physically or spiritually as I was with those 2 girls - and they were only 4 and 5 years old. Most people don't understand that a child with RAD thrives on creating chaos, and that they use the chaos to prevent bonding. One characteristic of a RAD child is an exhausted parent. My best friend has adopted 3 boys with varying degrees of RAD and it has been a very long hard road for her and her dh. They had another boy that they finally disrupted the adoption of after he injured her so badly that she required hospital care.

 

One group that was a great source of help and support for me is a yahoo group called RAD-FAS kids. It is a large active group. I am no longer a member, but I think they might help you find therapists and other resources in your area. It has members from all over and had thousands of members when I was a part. Some are living in situations much worse than yours but are still dedicated to the child. I was never around a more educated group of parents when it came to medications,treatments, discipline, and more. If nothing else, it was nice to write out my frustrations and have someone else say, "Yep, here too."

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

I do know that the main symptom in parents of these kids is to look stressed out and unloving to the child. And I cringe at that.

 

I used to belong to RAD-FAS and I don't remember why I ended my membership but I just signed up again. It looks SO active. I think I may have left because the problems were too many and too severe and it added concern to me, but I don't remember if I went there for advice much but I NEED that now, so I signed up again.

 

I'm starting off my day exhausted. I *needed* a good sleep last night but the cat awoke me at 5:30 throwing up. :glare:

[Denisemomof4]

I didn't mean to add stress, I know these kids are a real challenge. I was friends with this women and kept her confidence. She did deal more harshly with discipline that to others seem to severe for the situation. The other moms were always coming up to me asking or making comments about how strict, mean, and uncaring. She basically was talked about all the time.

The other moms really didn't mean to be gossiping. They really thought she was to tough(never giving the child a break). That she just didn't love this kid enough. They weren't aware of the disorder and how the kid acted.

 

The situation with the child got worse and she continue to come to coop. It seemed to the other mom, like the child was always being punished. Then it lead to real accusation of abuse. The whole situation was just so unnecessary.

 

you didn't add stress, I was honestly trying to figure out why this woman being private caused problems.

 

Moms of RAD kids look unloving and strict and harsh, because RAD kids NEED firmer boundaries. I can tell you FOR SURE that my daughter can NOT handle freedom and I don't set her up for failure, so she doesn't get freedom. Ignorant moms in my group don't understand that. I feel bad for the mother in your group that was unfairly judged, and think the women treated her harshly and unfairly.

 

I know at least a couple of women probably look at me like that. I know why I don't let my dd out of my sight. I know why my dd isn't allowed to play by or with the older kids, ESPECIALLY boys. I know what triggers my dd's PTSD or causes her to spiral. I sometimes want to scream at the top of my lungs to the ignorant, judgmental moms who not only DON'T get it, but who have the nNERVE to ever say anything about it.

 

The mothers in your group shouldn't have been allowed to gossip about her. They sound like they have problems themselves.

[Denisemomof4]

Is residential treatment an option? What about an attachment center? Respite? :grouphug:

 

Respite is almost non existent where I live. Residential treatment is likely a very REAL possibility in our future. The attachment center is 2 hours away, and the intensive is 4 days per week, and the cost is $10k minimum, and the success rate is 60% and the inhibited form is the most resistant to treatment. Dd has the inhibited form. We're paying out of pocket for a very expensive nutrition plan for older dd, oldest ds is going to college next year, and we've paid out of pocket for treatment for youngest dd in the past, and spent TONS on resources. We have limits, and we won't spend the 10k because dh and I both dont' think it will help her. Ultimately, SHE NEEDS TO WANT TO CHANGE, and I don't see that EVER happening. She's told me she wished I were Chinese since she was two, and her feelings of wanting a different mom have never diminished. I think they've grown. Dh has put his foot down and is not willing to gamble 10k because he truly thinks it won't help. I suspect he's right.

[Denisemomof4]

One thing I would not do is stay home with your DD while the older kids go to the coop ~ because that is giving her the power to punish you by depriving you of something you enjoy (and even need). I think that would be a huge reward for her and only make things worse. Better to have a few ignorant parents judge you unfairly than give your daughter that kind of power.

 

A member of my family adopted a child with RAD, and I saw first hand the amount of chaos, havoc, and misery a RAD child can wreak. In addition to the verbal and emotional abuse this child subjected her mother to, she destroyed her mothers things, cut up and/or urinated on her mother's clothes & furniture, told complete lies to other family members ~ all while acting like the most charming and adorable sweetheart to others. When her behavior didn't get enough of a reaction from her mother, she started to hurt the other children, knowing how much that would hurt her mother. Then she threatened to accuse the husband of s*xual abuse and send him to prison, which is when they felt they had no choice but to disrupt the adoption or lose their family.

 

The mother still feels terribly guilty about having "given up" on their adopted daughter, but she also knows that she unquestionably saved the childhoods of their other children ~ and possibly their lives. In the end she felt that she couldn't just totally sacrifice her marriage and her other children in the hope of helping one child, whose problems may have been so deep and irreparable that she could not be helped anyway. Sometimes people have to make terrible choices, and sometimes that choice is to stop trying to save one child in order to save several others. I can't imagine any choice a parent could be asked to make in life that would be more difficult than that. I'm just so, so sorry that you are having to go through this, and that your heartfelt desire to help a child has ended up having such a devastating effect on your family. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Jackie

 

When I read this, I know I'm reading the words from a woman who GETS IT. But I'm starting my day off crying, beaten down, and just not having the energy to deal with judgment of others. THankfully we don't have group today, but if we did, I don't know what I'd do. Do you know how many times I've broken down out of PURE EXHAUSTION out in public??? I so needed my sleep last night and I'm exhausted. Thankfully, I have my son's friends coming over today so she'll be on excellent behavior. You know, she has got to impress. Because of all the boys, though, I'll be on high alert to make sure she's not given the opportunity to be flirtatious even for HALF A SECOND. How sad is it that she does that, and how sad is it that that will actually be EASIER than what I face most days?

 

The child you wrote about above sounds like my dd. I do fear that one day she'll go after older dd just to get to me. That's always been one of my biggest fears. But I also have made the mistake of revolving my world around her and neglecting the rest of my family. It made her sicker and my family suffered. I now put everyone else first and I don't allow he to cause chaos. I remove her from the situation if she does and she KNOWS I will. My other kids know I will. She still does try, and so then she's off to her room.

 

I would never feel guilt if I chose to disrupt because I know that I did all I could, and I know she never accepted me. I know I may have to do this one day to save the rest of my family. And ultimately to save my dh and I because ultimately, I do think she's shaving years off my life.

 

Still, most days I'm ok. Pure exhaustion this past week is completely chipping away at my tolerance levels and my confidence. I'll be ok once I get some good sleep again.

[Denisemomof4]

My heart goes out to you. If you have anyone around you, even one person you can turn to for support, or just a shoulder to cry on, then you are fortunate. Most parents of RAD children are totally isolated. The children are charming. Extremely charming. They are manipulative and adored. The parents learn very quickly to just smile and pretend that life is delightful. If the parent even so much as hints that the child has done anything to deserve whatever consequences he is getting, then the parents are the bad guys. Most parents of RAD children have to suffer in silence and pretend everything is perfect. If they can't do that, then they risk losing every friend, and being isolated by family. It is terribly sad. These children can't help it. It isn't their fault. But, neither is it the fault of their parents who love them and are trying to help, and it isn't the fault of siblings or others in the home who have their lives disrupted and endangered because of the RAD child. Families who can keep it together while not endangering others in the home are to be applauded. You are a wonderful and amazing Mom.

 

that's why the post above both3ers me so much. I do have friends I can vent to and know that most RAD mom's don't. I feel so bad that woman was looked down upon, judged, and treated unfairly at a place she likely very truly NEEDED.

 

If I get to that point in my group, you'll all hear about it here. :001_smile: I'll be coming back for more tips/advice/support. I don't THINK it will happen, but I'm very realistic.

 

You're right, it's not my dd's fault she acts as she does. But after living with the bahaviors for 6 years and giving her EVERY opportunity and help I could, I no longer care about the CAUSE, I only want the healing and changed life. I need a peaceful life.

[Quickbeam]

I'm just back to thank you for sharing. It's opened my eyes and spurred me to think carefully and remember to always be kind to other parents, especially as my LOs grow older and parenting gets trickier. We often cannot know what's happening inside the family; you've really planted a seed of empathy.

 

And I'm sorry your cat woke you up. Cat vomit is rough. Bleh.:grouphug:

[FaithManor]

I am going to throw some ideas out to you.

First off, though I am not personally parenting a child with RAD, I used to provide respite care for families that adopted RAD children.

Denise, in particular, honey (((hugs))).

My first suggestion is that you do some research and find out which children's hospital in your state or neighboring state has a good psyche department. If you adopted dd with state insurance, find out if it will pay for in-house mental health care. If she is on your private insurance, then find out what coverage you have. Make an appointment to a psychiatrist whose credentials in dealing with FAS/FAE/ and RAD are well-reputed. The main thing is to get her in with someone who really understands pediatric mental illness. If you have coverage for in-patient psyche work-up then stand your ground and demand a few days in the psyche ward. You need this and dd needs this too. This is the best solution for you because she needs a brain scan, a sleep study, bloodwork, possibly allergy testing, and very likely meds. Getting it all done at once is good. If there is a Ronald McDonald House, you might be allowed to stay. If not, get in touch with the local support groups. If you have REALLY good insurance, you might be entitled to a few nights in a hotel if the hospital is significant distance from your home.

This is the time to ask and not feel like you are burdening everyone else. DD is sucking the ever - loving life right out of you and soon it will be your marriage or your relationship with your other children as well

There are a number of things that a good neuro-psyche work-up can help you with. First, it can diagnose any micro-seizure disorders. Micro-seizures don't present themselves in typical ways and can even escape the notice of your local pediatrician. They are very difficult to "see" but can seriously impact her behaviors. Also, night terrors (again another problem that children with mental illness often have) can be making everything worse. These are diagnosed through sleep studies. Plus, even if she doesn't have micro-seziures or night terrors, if she has any other sleep disorder that is preventing good REM sleep, this will manifest itself in increasingly more intense behavior problems.

Bipolar is another problem that can go hand -in - hand with RAD. This can not only be biologically hereditary, but can be caused by alcohol or drug exposure at specific stages of in-utero development. So, she may have a bit of a laundry list of problems. I've worked with kids that were FAS, RAD, Schizophrenic, ADHD - very common with FAS, and had seizure disorders. Many of these kids were "high" functioning and that made it difficult for their parents to get local doctors, therapists, and teachers to believe how difficult their lives really were. A larger pediatric facility that has seen it all, will be more inclined to understand your situation

You may want to consider giving dd a fish oil or essential fatty acid supplement. Rainbow Vitamins makes a good one, also Learning Factors is excellent, and Carlson's Cod Liver Oil with lemon flavoring (they take some of the fishy, gamey taste out) would be good. Brain food may help ebb some of her symptoms.

Another thing to consider is removing grains from dd's diet. A leaky gut does not cause FAS/FAE or RAD but it can make it worse. It may manifest as celiac disease but that is more extreme and often causes weight loss and other physical symptoms that are recognizable by primary physicians and pediatricians. But, the less extreme version, causes mal-absorption of vitamins and minerals in the small intestine. Many times, grain sensitivities do not present as all out allergies or celiac. However, the problem can intensify physical and mental health issues. Essentially, you want to avoid wheat, rice, barley, spelt, rye, etc. basically - flour and whole grains. She may be okay with corn in its whole form but avoid cornmeal as nearly everything made with cornmeal has white flour added, or if not, has at least been processed in factories with wheat. If you try this, it could take up to 60 days to see any improvement so don’t make it a short trial period.

If you have a friend who is good with dd and has an excellent grasp of her issues and appropriate methodologies for dealing with them, then I beg you to ask your friend for some help. Explain how desperately your family needs a break. See if she will come to the house and keep dd there for three or four days. You, dh, and kids go on a mini-vacation. I can't emphasize enough how much you need this. You are not failing your dd but you are acknowledging that in order to continue to be her family, all of you need some battery recharging time. Try to make this at least an annual event and I would encourage you to make it semi-annual if your friend feels she can accommodate this.

Also, consider that dd probably needs a "vacation" from her family. That is not meant in a demeaning way. It’s just that mentally ill people expend tremendous energy into maintaining whatever warped version of reality they function under. It is literally physically exhausting for them to do so. It’s tiring to be out-of-control. This is very similar to what a schizophrenic person might deal with.... sometimes it is just bone-tiring for them to be with their families even though their families love them so much. A break, is a break, is a break. Everyone, even dd, sometimes needs them desperately. I also liken it to taking care of a terminally ill relative. Mental illness is manageable, but mostly incurable. It is a long haul for the family and the patient just like it is with the terminal patient. However, the terminal patient will eventually be released from their suffering and so will their family. The family will have time to then grieve for the loss. But for the mentally ill patient and their family, there just doesn't seem to be any end in sight and no time to grieve for "what might have been." To make things worse, there isn't any hospice - ie. respite care - available for caregivers of mentally ill folk living in rural or semi-rural communities. So, if you can possibly carve out a break, you really need to.

In addition, if dd does not already have a mandatory quiet time each day, I urge you to institute one. She won't like it but she needs it, you need it, and your children need it. If she will actually stay in her room, so be it. Set a timer. If she won't stay, I know of one family that made the "romper room". This area contained nothing that their ds could use to hurt himself or to be significantly destructive to property. They painted the lower four feet of the wall with chalkboard paint and gave him non-toxic sidewalk chaulk. The room contained stuffed animals, non-valuable books (that way if he tore the pages out or colored in them - no big loss), a book on tape (this was piped in through speakers mounted up on the ceiling of the room so he couldn't destroy the cd player), and a pillow, favorite blankie, and camping mattress - again, nothing that he could hurt himself with unless he was EXTREMELY inventive about it. This was his quiet place and he spent 90 minutes per day in that place. During that time, my friend would drink tea, take a bubble bath, curl up with a good book, take a nap, play a board game with the other children, etc. It was an every single day occurrence except for when there were doctor's appointments or special events. It helped make her family's day more bareable.

Last, I encourage you to begin documenting DD's behaviors in a journal and also with video camera if possible. You need something tangible to present to the medical professionals and therapists who might deal with her. Most people, unless they have personal experience, don't really "get" it until they can have a visual of what really goes on at home. It might seem weird to have dh or one of the children video dd while she's "melting down", being defiant, throwing things, etc. But, that's okay. You aren't doing this to be cruel...you are doing this in order to gather the evidence that will potentially get her the help she needs.

God Bless and I will be praying for you and your family.

Faith

[AK_Homesteaders]

You're right, it's not my dd's fault she acts as she does. But after living with the bahaviors for 6 years and giving her EVERY opportunity and help I could, I no longer care about the CAUSE, I only want the healing and changed life. I need a peaceful life.

 

:iagree:Yes! I totally agree. A person and a family can only take so much. Love doesn't always make everything all better. I do not want to sound harsh toward children with RAD because I do fully understand where they are coming from, as much as is possible. But, those kinds of children can be extremely difficult --- impossible and dangerous. Parents have to consider safety first, and then take necessary steps.

 

There is not enough understanding of what they're getting into for the parents and siblings. Most adoptive parents are not at all prepared. They have no idea how common it is. The agencies and social workers DO know, and it is their moral obligation to the child and the potential families to not only inform them of the possibility of RAD and other disorders, but to really drive that home with potential parents. Parents who want a child know on a very superficial level that the child "could" have problems, but in their hearts and minds, they want a child so bad that they believe "God will work it out and give us the perfect child for our family". Sometimes it's just TOO much for the family. They have no idea what they're getting into and many agencies and social workers just want to get the child into a home, get the money (adoptions are very profitable), and not be bothered anymore. Not all agencies and social workers are like this at all, but if it weren't true, then there would not be so many unprepared families trying to deal with these children. Their decision to adopt often endangers the lives of themselves and siblings (both older and younger) because they are not fully educated by people in positions to do so.

 

I know I'm going a little off topic. I could not read every word of every post. I'm very glad that you have support. What a blessing that is. I agree with one of the other posters who recommend that you document behaviors. You may need it for medical services, to defend yourself, or just as a reminder to you down the road so you don't beat yourself up for the way you handle the situation. :grouphug:

[happyhomemaker25]

THIS GIVES ME HOPE!!!!!!!!! But it gets worse around 10???? :ohmy::svengo::svengo::svengo: Seriously, I'm hanging by the end of a very, VERY frayed thread. I can't take it getting any worse. But then again, it's because I'm not sleeping. I have been awaking at night with severe anxiety for about a week now. I'm SO exhausted.

 

I seriously need to print out the responses from all you wonderful ladies and read them DAILY to get the strength to do what i need. I need to return to a point of NOT allowing anyone's judgment make me feel anything but pity or numbness towards them.

 

 

I should say that my daughter while having symptoms has had different struggles. She has never really been prone to violence. Manipulation, lying, ignoring us, flat out refusing what we tell her to do or making up her own wrong way of doing it, stealing, sneaking, all of those things. Not violence. She has also tried to have a relationship with me. The things mentioned above are what hinders us sometimes. 10-12 were the worst years for us. It could happen again, but I am enjoying this season.

[Denisemomof4]

Faith, thank you for taking the time to write out such a lengthy response. I really appreciate it. And I do take time for myself, regularly, but lately I'm just too tired to. I am finding painting my house therapeutic, and just today I did a DEEP clean to work off my nervous energy. Not my ways or normally coping :tongue_smilie: but it's all I'm able to do for now, coupled with my animal therapy. I'll be going to the barn in the next hour or so and that is always one of the highlights of my day.

 

Anyway, I do understand what you're saying. Really, I do. If finding a hospital to bring her to and get her evaluated were that easy, we'd be there in a heartbeat. And what would we end up with? Someone else's opinion. What I have found is that doing a ton of reading and doing the work myself is almost more beneficial than treatment, but then again I'd LOVE to find someone to help HER, and NOT coach me. The only help I can find is someone who will coach me. But anyway, finding a hospital, admitting her, and trying to get a diagnosis sound pretty simple, don't they? But it's actually not that simple. I don't know where you are, but I'm in New England. I know NH is one of the worst states in the US for those suffering mental illness. I've bone to NAMI meetings, done research, made a million calls to try to get help for my mentally ill brother. There IS no help> The two local hospitals won't even take him. He'll go to the ER and they transport him to the state hospital. I will NOT have my dd go there. The fallout from that would be far worse than going it alone. Trust me -0 I've had to walk this road far too many times. There is NOT that kind of help here.

 

We can bring her to MA and pay 30% odf the bill. It's not out of the question, but it IS out of the question financially at this moment because we are paying out of pocket for a few things currently, things that have to be a priority for health reasons. But even in MA, my bipolar sister has gone to many hospitals for evaluations, treatments, etc. After 15 years of being treated, and several diagnoses, she's no better. Maybe if I didn't have personal experience with my mentally ill siblings I'd have more hope. Maybe if the help I HAVE gotten has helped my dd, I'd have more hope. But what I have found, as MANY mom's of kids with RAD have, is that sometimes they are forced to go it alone because there truly is no help out there. Someone here is checking to see if her friends, good attachment therapists, have someone in my area to recommend. But I've been looking for help for so long now that I've all but given up.

 

I do know that I can get my dd back to a place of regulation (today we had a break through and she did tell me we've been doing too much and that she just needs to have quiet time alone in her room [i do know that over stimulation is a HUGE NO NO and can't believe I did this to her by booking so many GREAT things.....> WON'T do that again!]) but I needed time to cool off (all that work today worked off my nervous energy!) and she needed time to be left alone, and we talked today. She also told me she didn't know why, but sometimes she just "had to do things wrong on her school work." But seriously, ONE WEEK to write TWO SENTENCES? She finally did it today in 10 minutes. Even then, she could have done it quicker but HEY, it GOT DONE. :hurray:

 

I apologized for not having enough quiet time at home and told her I won't do that again next year. So we just move on from here. I do think there's more to her acting out so much in the past couple of weeks. It was at a new level even for HER. But, I do hope that now that we're focusing mainly on BEING HOME, that she'll start to be ok again.

 

Faith, I do wish there were respite care because trust me - our entire FAMILY deserves a break!!! You did a WONDERFUL thing by offering that service. I do think that one day all my research will be used on someone else. Maybe *I'LL* eventually be a respite home when my girls are older!!!

 

Denise

[Denisemomof4]

:iagree:Yes! I totally agree. A person and a family can only take so much. Love doesn't always make everything all better. I do not want to sound harsh toward children with RAD because I do fully understand where they are coming from, as much as is possible. But, those kinds of children can be extremely difficult --- impossible and dangerous. Parents have to consider safety first, and then take necessary steps.

 

There is not enough understanding of what they're getting into for the parents and siblings. Most adoptive parents are not at all prepared. They have no idea how common it is. The agencies and social workers DO know, and it is their moral obligation to the child and the potential families to not only inform them of the possibility of RAD and other disorders, but to really drive that home with potential parents. Parents who want a child know on a very superficial level that the child "could" have problems, but in their hearts and minds, they want a child so bad that they believe "God will work it out and give us the perfect child for our family". Sometimes it's just TOO much for the family. They have no idea what they're getting into and many agencies and social workers just want to get the child into a home, get the money (adoptions are very profitable), and not be bothered anymore. Not all agencies and social workers are like this at all, but if it weren't true, then there would not be so many unprepared families trying to deal with these children. Their decision to adopt often endangers the lives of themselves and siblings (both older and younger) because they are not fully educated by people in positions to do so.

 

I know I'm going a little off topic. I could not read every word of every post. I'm very glad that you have support. What a blessing that is. I agree with one of the other posters who recommend that you document behaviors. You may need it for medical services, to defend yourself, or just as a reminder to you down the road so you don't beat yourself up for the way you handle the situation. :grouphug:

 

I have been told to document her behaviors many times. She got so much better so I stopped, and then I just was too burnt out to remember to start it up again. I may put more effort into doing this.

 

You're right about families not being prepared and being lied to. If there's ONE thing in my life I had time to fight for, it would be to educate, educate, educate, and to have a TRUE depiction of adoption life at the agencies, NOT the phony "I'm so happy, our lives are absolutely perfect" crap they present to you with a family who has only had their child for weeks. THAT'S DECEPTION. But honestly, I'm too burnt out to take that on.

[Denisemomof4]

I should say that my daughter while having symptoms has had different struggles. She has never really been prone to violence. Manipulation, lying, ignoring us, flat out refusing what we tell her to do or making up her own wrong way of doing it, stealing, sneaking, all of those things. Not violence. She has also tried to have a relationship with me. The things mentioned above are what hinders us sometimes. 10-12 were the worst years for us. It could happen again, but I am enjoying this season.

 

actually, my dd hasn't shown violence towards me, but the animals are another story. Especially our brain damaged cat who ONLY loves her, and my dachsund that absolutely CRAVES affection from me.

 

My dd also craves a relationship with me. But when things are going REAL good, she tries her hardest to sabotage things because she gets scared. And also because she wants her birth mom, NOT me. But I do believe she loves me as much as she can, and I do know that when we have more time together (which means we have more TIME AT HOME) I do know things go far better. In fact, there was a period of almost a year that things felt SO good and SO normal but everything went haywire when my mother moved in with us and we needed to hire help to care for her. She never recovered 100% but did get better, and then I overbooked us doing two homeschool groups. STUPID mistake, and we've dropped one permanently and I will be VERY selective of what we select for next year.

 

I do believe we'll get back on track, but even this morning I had lost hope for that. It seemed like we'd never "get there again." Parenting a RAD kid makes one question their own sanity as they walk through life in an undercurrent of confusion.

 

My God I hope and pray that she doesn't get worse when she gets older!!!

[jujsky]

Anyway, I do understand what you're saying. Really, I do. If finding a hospital to bring her to and get her evaluated were that easy, we'd be there in a heartbeat. And what would we end up with? Someone else's opinion. What I have found is that doing a ton of reading and doing the work myself is almost more beneficial than treatment, but then again I'd LOVE to find someone to help HER, and NOT coach me. The only help I can find is someone who will coach me. But anyway, finding a hospital, admitting her, and trying to get a diagnosis sound pretty simple, don't they? But it's actually not that simple. I don't know where you are, but I'm in New England. I know NH is one of the worst states in the US for those suffering mental illness. I've bone to NAMI meetings, done research, made a million calls to try to get help for my mentally ill brother. There IS no help> The two local hospitals won't even take him. He'll go to the ER and they transport him to the state hospital. I will NOT have my dd go there. The fallout from that would be far worse than going it alone. Trust me -0 I've had to walk this road far too many times. There is NOT that kind of help here.

 

 

Denise, you're in NH? So am I! I haven't been able to locate a half-way decent counselor for my son.

 

Have you taken your DD to a neurologist? As others have said, a neurologist might be able to diagnose underlying issues. Anne Woods out of Manchester (she's w/Dartmouth-Hitchcock) is very good. She's the one who diagnosed our son w/FAE when none of the other doctors even thought it was a possibility.

[Denisemomof4]

Denise, you're in NH? So am I! I haven't been able to locate a half-way decent counselor for my son.

 

Have you taken your DD to a neurologist? As others have said, a neurologist might be able to diagnose underlying issues. Anne Woods out of Manchester (she's w/Dartmouth-Hitchcock) is very good. She's the one who diagnosed our son w/FAE when none of the other doctors even thought it was a possibility.

 

Well what a small world! Anne Woods saw my older dd to see if she was having seizures! (thankfully not!)

 

So do you understand what I'm saying, how it's nearly impossible to find good help out here? A few years back, before I burnt out, I was going to take my dd to see Dan Hughes in China, ME, a 3 or 3.5 hour drive EACH WAY. I put that on hold to help my parents. I just can't do it now. I'm too tired!

 

I don't think FAE is typically an issue in China, not that it COULDN'T be what she has, but I've read the symptoms of that and am quite certain she doesn't have that. I'm certain she has inhibited RAD. We were going to start neuro reorg but instead bought our own equipment and are in the process of training to do neurofeedback on her. This is my biggest hope so far. If you're interested in nfb, I have a great person in Burlington, MA I could recommend. I'd have to just do a quick search.

[jujsky]

I LOVE Dr. Woods. She was initially negative towards homeschooling, but I turned her around ;) I think after spending time with my kids and hearing all of the activities we do she realized we defied her stereotypes. I've considered having a neuropsych done on him just to see if there are any other issues besides the SPD caused by the FAE that I can target.

 

Did you go through Wide Horizons for your adoption? We looked at them and decided against them. Too many people on adoption boards had negative things to say about them. A lot of the negative comments revolved around undisclosed medical issues, and pressure from the agency on adoptive parents to take kids with medical issues. They would minimize the issues and prey on the fears of the people by saying things like, "If you refuse this referral we don't know when another one will come through for you." We went to one of their open-houses and I was very well-informed about adoption and adoption-issues. We knew they worked in St. Petersburg and we specifically wanted a child from St. Petersburg -- partly because my DH is from there and that would be a special bond they would share, and partly because we knew how under-funded orphanages outside of the big-cities were. They told us that they couldn't promise us St. Petersburg, even though we told them we were willing to wait much longer. They told us that they only way they grant people a specific city is if they had already adopted one child from that city so the children would share a bond. Really? Like the same exact bond we wanted my DH and our child to share? That bond? I think that bond is a bit stronger since he can actually tell Nate what it was like to grow up in St. Petersburg -- something a sibling adopted as a small child wouldn't be able to do. The other big thing that got me was when I asked what would happen if we went to Russia, met the child, and just felt in our gut that it wasn't the right match. They totally dismissed that, and told us that lots of parents and biological children don't bond right away, and that "most people" bond with their children within a couple of months. I was told straight-out that a gut-feeling was not a good enough reason to refuse a referral -- we could only refuse a referral if there was documented medical issues that were severe. I told them that since they didn't seem to be willing to accomodate us, and they were potentially trying to force me to raise a child I was uncomfortable raising, we would be taking our business elsewhere and telling everyone we knew NOT to use them. I do know a couple who adopted through them from China and found a wonderful child, but they're putting them through the wringer on their 2nd adoption!

 

We ended up finding a small agency that just worked with Russia and the Ukraine, and they gave me all of the right answers to my questions. Nate was evaluated independently while we were over there, but since he was 5 months old & FAE shows no/few visible signs, it was undetectable. We knew there was a possibility he would have it. Thankfully he was relinquished at birth, went to a really good orphanage, and we got him young so we aren't faced with RAD. I've read lots of your posts about your DD & my heart completely goes out to you & your family.

 

If you do come across any good RAD resources in the area, a friend of mine adopted a child out of the foster care system at 2 (she's now 5), and she was just tentatively diagnosed with it. She is having a very difficult time finding a therapist who specializes in it in our area, and has so far been dissatisfied with the therapists she's seen. If you manage to find someone decent, please PM me with the info. She is really, really struggling right now, and just trying to do the best she can for her kid. And if you're ever heading down to the Nashua area, let me know. Maybe we can meet for a girl's night out :001_smile:

[Denisemomof4]

Julie, I used to live in Hudson! My parents lived off of Bicentennial in Nashua! We will have to meet sometime!

 

I was just on the Attachment Institute of New England's website. They charge $450 per two hour session, but I remember they start off with two week intensives, four 8 hour days. It costs thousands. I don't know if they're good, but many of the attachment boards recommend them. They expect payment at time of treatment and claim that SOME insurance companies will reimburse. Ours wouldn't. If the success rate for treatment at her age were higher, I'd want to take her. If she didn't have the hardest form to treat (inhibited RAD) I'd want to take her. If I hadn't been disappointed too many times in the past, I'd take her. But I got SO FAR from doing all my own work. She was almost 4 when I started to really research because I absolutely KNEW something was WRONG. In a pretty short period of time, maybe 12 - 18 months, she had healed SO MUCh. But then my parents got sick and I'm only now in a place where I have the energy to live fairly normally again. But to have to do more research and do all that work again? I'm just SO TIRED.

 

I've been looking for good help for years and have had no luck. I would recommend your friend buy tons of materials and do the work herself. How old is her child? I would be willing to call her and talk to her if she's comfortable. The one thing I started to do with my daughter was I forced her to stay in my lap CHEST TO CHEST. For over 2 years I allowed her to put her back to me. I couldn't imagine forcing a child. But it helped her. It broke down her walls, and she learned to love to cuddle. She'd ask for it. I would rock her literally for HOURS. I'd sing to her, caress her face, even allow her to suck on a bottle at 4 years of age. It's recommended that you bring the children back to their infancy stage to give them what they never got. I'd read about that SO MANY times. The hardest part was encouraging eye contact. I did all the exercises for bonding. I'd also have her look into my eyes, and she HATED it. I'd put a sweet drink in her bottle, have her look into my eyes, she'd look away, I'd remove the bottle and very gently ask her to look back at Mommy's eyes, and repeat over and over and over. We do have good eye contact right now. But still, so much trauma and hurt in her little heart. It kills me.

 

There are services available by phone, a phone coaching type, but those are all out of pocket payments, too. It's a shame that we have these sick kids and we have to pay for their treatments out of our pockets. We HAVE insurance, but it won't pay for attachment therapy, or there aren't any good therapists out here. If you want your friend to email me, I'll forward it to you (or I can call her) because if she's willing to share her main struggles, I may have some resources to recommend. Please look into Margot Sunderland's books. I have A Nifflenoo Called Nevermind. This book helped my daughter the most to stop soiling/wetting her pants. It does still happen, but not as much. It basically speaks about how kids act OUTSIDE when they're bottling up their feelings and therefore feeling horrible INSIDE. I bought the books on amazon.com/uk and it came with a parent guide, which was very helpful. My dd LOVED the book.

 

I can tell you FOR SURE that a quiet and simple life is where my kid thrives best. Too much stimulation (being too involved with activities, school, parties, etc.) causes my dd to spiral, and I'm certain that's one of my main issues right now. I've cleared my calendar. I have ONE play date in a week and a half and am open other than that. She needs that time to heal. To just be. To not have to go anywhere. Does your friend homeschool? I can't imagine my dd being able to handle school. I tried it once and she regressed horribly. She'd sing songs on the way home, "Mommy, please don't die. If you die I will be all alone." She hated school and I think it reminded her of the orphanage.

 

I did use Wide Horizons. I hated them. I also had the most horrible social worker and she traumatized my kids and they still speak of her to this day. She interviewed them all behind closed doors, asked misleading questions, confused them, then called CPS on us. CPS called her back and told her she had nothing to report and the case was closed. It was horribly traumatizing for us all. They also lied to us. They specifically told us that girls from China typically do very well. They told us that if we didn't accept the first referral we received that we may never get another. They also told us that the picture we receive may not be the baby we actually get in China. They also sent us out to China FULLY KNOWING that our orphanage had shut down. They sent us out anyway to "put pressure on the government and allow our adoptions to go through." Can you IMAGINE??!!! We were climbing the Great Wall of China and our interpretor was in the bus fighting for us to get our kids, and we had NO IDEA any of this was even going on. We were told only AFTER the adoptions were final. I could not BELIEVE they would put us through the expense and EMOTIONAL TURMOIL. Seriously! ALL of their practices are pretty deceptive. They couldn't WAIT for us to get our baby home and parade our family, three bio kids, two American parents, one Chinese baby, in front of prospective adoptive parents. We had her home THREE WEEKS. Like I could have possibly picked up on attachment issues in THREE WEEKS!!! They knew EXACTLY what they were doing. I would absolutely NEVER recommend them. And they cost several thousands more than other agencies. But we went with them because we knew three other families who had successful adoptions through them so we wanted that security.

 

I don't hold out much hope that we will find a good therapist in this area. I've been looking for SO long now. Not many people could have put the hours and work into the research and implementing of the materials I did, but I can tell you the rewards were HUGE. The more knowledge your friend has on her side, the better. But still, life's trials do throw in curve balls and mess everything up. Then we have to start over.

 

I'm sorry you have difficulties with your son. I just rejoined the RAD/ FASD yahoo group and was reading more on bipolar and FAS. I'm quite certain these aren't our issues, but the FASD checklist had most of the symptoms checked off, more than any other issue. How sad for your child, and how sad for your family! I can't BELIEVE someone could drink heavily with a baby growing inside them!

 

I have a friend who is a foster mother. She's on alert because there was recently a HUGE drug bust in NH and there were MANY babies taken away from the addicts. It's so sad - the foster families are waiting for these babies but first they are sent to the hospital so they can detox. They're all meth babies. I can't even imagine. I just can't imagine being so selfish, and making the child suffer for the rest of their life because of their stupid, selfish choices.

 

I'm sorry I've rambled so much. :blush:

Edited April 30, 2010 by Denisemomof4

[jujsky]

Thank you SO MUCH for all the information, Denise! I copied the post and sent it to my friend. Her DD is 5 1/2 & she isn't homeschooled. I'm hoping she'll ask for your contact information. I don't want to reveal too much personal information about her, but from things you've posted now and in the past, it sounds like you two have been through a lot of similar things and can really relate to each other.

 

Your experience is exactly why we didn't use Wide Horizons. I heard too many similar stories on adoption boards, and when they gave us that same line about how it would be a long time before we got another referral if we rejected one, that sealed it for me. That being said, if we had opted for China, we probably would have gone through them. Not many places in the area do Chinese adoptions, and most posts I read from people who used that program were happy. I ran away screaming from their Russian program though!!!! We used New Hope Christian Services and they were fantastic! They weren't always prompt about returning phone calls, but that is the only negative thing I can say about them. Everything went smoothly. I'm sad that Nate has mild FAE & has to struggle because of it, but I try not to blame his birth-mom too much. DH is from Russia & we went there on vacation a couple years before we adopted. It is a very depressing country. Social drinking is common there (alcohol is less expensive than soda or bottled water). It's very likely that she drank socially daily until she realized she was pregnant. Where it's a mild case, I don't think she was drinking throughout the entire pregnancy. It's still sad though. He is so, so smart! I think how much easier his life would be if there wasn't that disconnect. It's unfair that everything has to be so hard for him.

 

I can't believe your parents are in Nashua!!!! I'm not from NH originally, but I've been here since college. I would love to meet you in person sometime -- especially since we're both homeschooling kids we adopted who are close in age. Maybe we could meet at Time To Clay. I find it a good place for a girl's night. I can sit, talk, and take my time doing a lousy job painting pottery. It's cheaper than therapy & they don't hurry you out of there like they do at a restaurant ;)

[Tree House Academy]

I have a friend right now at co-op who does the same.exact.thing with her dd. She took her out of her class and now the child does school work while sitting at co-op and her sibling attends classes. Mom doesn't look mean at all...she looks SMART to me! Tough love...sometimes that is what they need.

[Denisemomof4]

 

I can't believe your parents are in Nashua!!!! I'm not from NH originally, but I've been here since college. I would love to meet you in person sometime -- especially since we're both homeschooling kids we adopted who are close in age. Maybe we could meet at Time To Clay. I find it a good place for a girl's night. I can sit, talk, and take my time doing a lousy job painting pottery. It's cheaper than therapy & they don't hurry you out of there like they do at a restaurant ;)

 

We'll have to do that!!! I still need some time to decompress and can't wait for school to get out! But let's set a date, maybe in June? Please PM me!

 

My dd has synchronized swim on Mon/Fri night, so please keep that in mind. It will run until almost the end of June.

[lionfamily1999]

well that last part is making me cry my eyes out. I don't feel like I'm taking care of her. I feel like I've made her hate me (RAD kids ALWAYS target the mom) but I tell her all the time, I'm not being a mean mommy, but I'm being a mommy who won't allow her to fail because I care too much. When she sees kids behaving badly, she'll say, "Their mother isn't training them to do the right thing... or, They must have a bad mom."

It does sound like she's manipulating you :( I'm so sorry my post would make you feel bad. Frankly, you haven't booted her out, you haven't (I'm assuming here) beaten her, you haven't hurt her. You reaching and out and trying, the fact that you care enough to reach out and ask, speaks volumes for how much care you have taken :grouphug:

Yes, that could easily be why someone may think they hide an adopted kid. Some of these kids are so dangerous to the family that they are kept from public to protect the rest of the family. This is our situation. This is why NO MATTER WHAT, I will be in my dd's class in ANY co-op setting, and I will NOT allow her to be outside my eye sight. I feel it's my responsibility to do this to protect my other children. I feel responsible for doing this for my family. I prayed and cried for four years for this adoption for four years, and I sometimes hate myself for doing this to my family, and I *ALWAYS* take 100% responsibility. Noboby knows that during the 2. 5year adoption process, I was already praying for our SECOND adoption. NO WAY.

I feel helpless reading this. I wish I could do something to lighten your load. I'm sorry this is all so hard, and you with a world of good intentions behind it all. I'm not sure, though, that you can blame yourself. You did a "good" thing, a "right" thing. It turns out it's harder than you might've guessed. Hindsight being what it is, I'm guessing you think you should've/could've/would've, but that's past now. I think what you're doing, staying on top of things, making clear rules and following through, is a great thing. I wish I could offer you more than that.

 

Oh, and even with nonRAD kids, other parents love to step on toes and make assumptions. It's not just you ;) or your dd. It's people that need something a little more bitter to start their day.