Alternatives to French CNED???

[Chez J]

You ladies may be able to help me out. My dd is in CM2 level CNED. It is too much for us. The schedule is so strict, that we struggle to finish every year. This is partly because we don't get the materials until late Sept. I'm also thinking this grade level might need to be repeated. She's getting her verb tenses and conjugations mixed up.

 

Anyway, I am looking for an alternative curriculum for her to use. My hope is to prepare her for AP French in early high school. Don't know if that is realistic, just guessing based on how many years of French she'd have had.

 

Her tutor lives in Paris, so we could get materials from there. I have asked the same of her tutor, but thought you ladies might have additional suggestions.

 

Thanks for your consideration.

 

Lesley

 

PS I may be looking to hire a second tutor. I am thinking of changing our schedule from two days a week for two hours each to four days a week for one hour each. I think this will help my daughter but might be a challenge for her tutor in Paris to keep.

 

PPS This is a repost from a different thread. For you Cleo!

[Chez J]

Lesley, could you provide a little more background on your daughter's French? It might help for giving suggestions.

 

Please give us some more details so we can help you brainstorm!:)

 

My daughter started school in a French international school from which we withdrew her to homeschool. She had nearly two years (off and on) of schooling there. It was 70/30 French/English the first year and 50/50 the second year. The school used Ratus one year and, oh gosh, I'm drawing a blank on the second year.

 

Since then, we have used the CNED (at first to go for a French Bacc). But, we dropped everything from that except for French LA. The schedule was too hard.

 

She speaks fluently, but her vocabulary is limited. For example, she cannot use French vocabulary to name a spatula, whisk, which are specialized vocabulary. I don't think she could name an otter, but she can name basic animals like bear or rabbit.

 

She can read Le Magique Cabane series and the Disney Fairy series in French, but the Cher Canada series is too hard. I got her Ramona La Peste and Charlie et La Chocolatiere (did I name it right?). Those were too hard.

 

When she writes a paper, she has a hard time with conjugation and tense. And, she is still mixing up English and French punctuation. Though usually it's the English that gets messed up. The French seem to write what English writers would call run-on sentences. She goes with that. :D

 

The thing SHE says is making it hard is that because we only work with the tutor on lessons two days a week, they are doing four or so lessons. She is learning too much at one time. So, she needs more frequent instruction (hence the PS about a second tutor).

 

I don't care so much if we are learning about recycling in French, which was a recent lesson. However, the CNED uses lots of excerpts from books that I would hate to lose. Eventually, she will need to study the famous French Lit for the AP course.

 

Hope that's enough for you.:D (I can be long-winded.)

 

Lesley

Edited April 28, 2010 by Chez J
clarification

[Joan in GE]

Hi Lesley,

 

I'm not Cleo, but since my son has done the French language AP (and SAT II French too) I can tell you what we did...He took them at the end of 9th grade and got perfect scores on both. BTW there is no French lit AP any more...

 

Although we live in Switzerland, my son never attended any school and was never that much of a talker. We speak English at home. His sister has had many more verbal opportunities than he has, partly because she is more verbal, girlfriends tend to talk more, etc.

 

Up through 6th grade, his French exposure was somewhat less structured. I wrote about it in an introductory post so I won't rewrite all that. But thought it might be helpful to say what books we used for 7th to 9th. (He only had a tutor from 7 - 9th, otherwise it was me trying to give him work).

 

He had to take the Geneva public school system tests from 7 - 9 so we were really aiming to fulfill those requirements. Then I had him do the AP as an experiment assuring him that it didn't matter if he did not do well. He really only looked at the Barron's AP book toward April (AP is in May) and took the practice test then. His tutor looked at his few mistakes and taught him maybe one more hour.

 

The tutor liked the BELIN series best. By the time he did the AP he had worked up to the Francais 4e et Grammaire 4e but was not finished with them. You can buy the "Livre du professeur" and have the answers yourself from Amazon.ca if you have shipping issues or BELIN for the ones not on Amazon. The series starts at 6e...

(ETA - I was just at the big bookfair today and have to say that the most recent editions of BELIN francais and grammaire are not to my liking...They are full of self-advertisement. Eg, they will recommend that you read this and that book, using pages of the book to show pictures of their editions of those books. That series for French is called 'a suivre' published in 2005, etc (awful)... I would recommend the previous editions published 6e, 2000, etc...Here is an example.)

 

You mentioned excerpts from CNED...I'm not sure if you mean the type that are in the typical "francais" books? They are generally beautifully done with color reprints of art masterpieces...?

 

One thing I did was have the tutor record (on cassette) part of his history book in little sections. Then he used those as "dictees" because in 8th grade, ds was tested in history, biology, and math in French by the Swiss as well, so that helped him work on his vocabulary as well as those other things I mentioned in the other post.

 

In 9th grade he did geography using the Histoire-Geographie books which helped vocab too....

 

He had on average only 2 hours/wk tutoring (only 1 1/2 in 9th grade). If your tutor is in Paris, does that mean the tutoring is by phone or skype? I can't remember if you speak French or not yourself? Can you help your daughter?

 

The other thing about taking AP's younger is the test in group stress practice...Ds's test room was crowded and I thought stressful...So you should try to figure out ways of getting her test practice in a slightly stressful situation. The first time ds took his Swiss math test in the local jr. hi. in 7th grade he said his pencil was jiggling all over the paper....

 

Have to get to bed...HTH a bit,

Joan

Edited April 29, 2010 by Joan in Geneva

[Chez J]

That is such a helpful reply. Our tutor is in Paris, so yes, we use webcam. It has worked well. But, because of the time difference, she is tutoring in the late evenings. I have a hard time changing our schedule with her. But, she's been our tutor for three years. Started with her when she lived here in the U.S.

 

I do not speak enough French to be of much help. So, the idea of having a pre-recorded dictee is a good one. They could focus on kitchen, outside, shopping, geography, world news, art, music, all sorts of ways to make that work to our benefit.

 

I will send the Belin info to her and take a look myself. Thanks so much.

 

Lesley

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Lesley,

 

CNED is meant for French speakers, and they assume you will be working on it 5 days a week, for up to 90 minutes per day. If you only work on it twice per week, it would not be feasible! My own daughter wouldn't be able to do it that way and she's a French speaker. Can she work on CNED on a daily basis?

 

My son has a Spanish tutor once a week. He uses CNED Spanish on his own, and goes over everything with the tutor on Fridays (in an hour from now actually!) The tutor does not teach. CNED does. Could your daughter do this instead? One 'séance' is a day's worth of work. Honestly!

 

If you want dictées, take a look at

http://ladictee.fr/

Online dictations for anyone :)

 

For vocabulary, nothing will beat reading. Keep her reading in French. It does pay. My daughter who does speak English but isn't that great at it, is now reading the feral cat series (by Erin Hunter) in English. She read through them in French, but eventually hit the place where they're not yet translated. She decided to switch to English. As for me, I started with the Lord of the Rings. Yup, that was my first English book. But I already knew the story, so each time I didn't know a word, I could figure it out from what I knew of the story in French. Push her in reading by having her read stories she's already familiar with.

[Chez J]

Cleo,

 

This is why we are having such a hard time! It is meant for everyday, and we just don't get that with the tutor.

 

I know that it is written so that the student is to work independently. Not sure what level that starts. That could help. Something to consider. Maybe we can try it the rest of this year to see how it goes.

 

We just finished Eval. 7 and all the rest are due in June, which means they need to be in the mail by end of May. This is how it goes every year! We NEVER finish.

 

Because of life, :D, we end up schooling here until late June, then start again in August, so we lose nearly three months of time we could work if we used a different program.

 

That's why I'm thinking a different program might be better. "I" need to set the schedule.

 

Lesley

[Joan in GE]

As you have been thinking and as Cleo said, daily study is probably necessary, especially at her age...

 

My daughter is right around your daughter's age now (maybe a year older). She has started the tutor earlier than her brother as I didn't know how much longer we would be in a French speaking country. She gets the tutor for 1 1/2 hr/wk (her brother gets the other 1/2 hr now).

 

The tutor gives homework and she works about an hour a day on it. If she finishes before the tutor returns, I have some workbooks or French tapes or computer programs she can do.

 

I was trying to compare my daughter's exposure to your daughter's.

 

While my daughter does get her weekly drawing and Sunday school classes in French, she doesn't get to play weekly with French speakers...So she is getting about 5 1/2 hrs French lesson + homework and about 2 hrs classes in French but not about the language per week. Then she'll talk to the neighbor lady or the lady at the Mercerie or pet store and some people at church...

 

If your daughter can get the 4 tutor hours plus another 3 hours of study on her own that might be about equivalent.

 

About conjugations...even if you don't really know French, you could oversee her work on a conjugation notebook and the tutor could check it every week. The conjugation notebook really helps them see the patterns.

 

Last year my dd was doing just imparfait, p.c., present, futur, imperatif and this year she started passe simple, conditionel, and subjonctif. I forgot, she is also using the

Bordas "cahier de conjugaison CM". Last year she did cahier de conjugaison CE.

 

If you PM me, I can send a list of the verbs she did last year and this year. My son did those same verbs for the Swiss school test prep.

 

HTH,

Joan

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I know that it is written so that the student is to work independently. Not sure what level that starts.

 

Lesley

 

My daughter is doing CM1 and she's doing it independently. I never really supervise her work. Of course, she is French speaking to start with. Your daughter is already doing a level that's meant to be independent.

 

Good luck!

 

Also, don't tell your kids, but CNED will consider a course as 'finished' when the 7th evaluation is in.

[Chez J]

Also, don't tell your kids, but CNED will consider a course as 'finished' when the 7th evaluation is in.

 

:thumbup: Yes, for the last couple of years, we've only sent in up to eval 9, and she still passed. I just thought it was because she was so stellar at all her evals, they just passed her anyway. :D I didn't realize it was as low at eval 7, though. Maybe all hope is not lost!

 

Okay, I will have her look at the books on Monday and start to do some lessons alone. See how that goes the rest of the year.

 

Also, thanks for the free dictee site. And, was your smilie a hint for me to take dictee too. :) I should. I was able to speak and listen in a basic way, but have lost it since the tutor moved back to Paris. She always spoke to me in French too.

 

 

Joan, thanks for the idea about a conjugation notebook. She may be doing this already, not sure. I'll check. If not, it's a good idea!

 

 

Lesley

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Okay, I will have her look at the books on Monday and start to do some lessons alone. See how that goes the rest of the year.

Lesley

 

Just so you know, my son does three 'séances' a week (Spanish) on his own. Then he goes to his tutor for 1 hour on Fridays. Usually they will only go over one séance together, rarely do 2 séances. It does take the tutor an hour to discuss just one séance! DS forges ahead anyway. I figure that one séance out of three is better than none ...

[Chez J]

The tutor likes the BELIN books. I think she said either her daughter, 4e, or she, a teacher, uses them. Since we decided we are not "married" to the CNED, she thinks these are probably a better choice for us. She likes the recent revision. (shrug)

 

She liked the dictee site a lot, but is concerned that I won't be able to review what is done. I need to look at that more.

 

Cahier de conjugation will be added. Thanks for the book recommendation!

 

Lastly, she knows of books used in France that have chapter questions like a reading or study guide. In 6e they return to Ancients, which is great, cuz we are starting Ancients again next year. So, she will get me ISBN numbers to order them from amazon.ca.

 

All is looking good.

 

Thanks so much for all the advice. You ladies really knew your stuff!!!

 

Lesley

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Lastly, she knows of books used in France that have chapter questions like a reading or study guide.

 

I would like to know her recommendations. I am familiar with BiblioCollege. They're great little books with questions in them.

[Chez J]

I would like to know her recommendations. I am familiar with BiblioCollege. They're great little books with questions in them.

 

When she gets a list to me, I'll post.

 

Lesley

[Joan in GE]

When she gets a list to me, I'll post.

 

I'm curious too.

 

I just recently found a Francais Histoire 6e workbook which uses texts from the historical period associated with the grade (eg 6e is Ancients) and asks questions (answers are supposed to be online) and am wondering if it is one of those...

 

I think that I have miscalculated about my daughter's French time. I did not take into account what I call "fun French" time (reading, science/hist DVD's, composer stories, friends, etc), which would probably add another two hours/wk.

 

Hope the other materials work as well for you as they have for us.

 

Joan

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I've got an answer for you!

 

EAD! It's the CNED equivalent for Belgium. It's way way way cheaper, but the material isn't of the same quality (you get photocopied text, not nice workbooks). The content is of good quality though, just not the material itself (it's black and white too)

On the other hand there is NO time limit for an assignment. And it costs like 80$ FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

 

http://www.ead.cfwb.be/

[Joan in GE]

Lesley, I'm attaching a picture of two pages of my daughter's conjugation notebook. She has been working on it for a couple of years now. During normal times before, she would add one verb a week doing just the imparfait, passe compose, present, futur tenses. One handy thing was to put the endings in a different color. So the root would be in pencil then the ending that sounded the same were in one color and the ez and ons were in another. There are various ways of doing it.

 

Now that she is older, she is going back and adding the other tenses to the verbs she did before. And now that she knows her endings well, she doesn't bother doing them in color and does everything in fountain pen.

 

The "Cahier" that you buy is exercises where the verbs are grouped together by endings eg. "er". The notebook that my dc made helps them learn single verbs, from which they can then extrapolate better for the groups. Dd does homework of writing out the pages then the tutor quizzes her on eg. "tu" imparfait of vendre, etc.

 

But the picture is from earlier. I don't know how it will turn out online here. I'll try again if it doesn't upload well..

 

Joan

 

ETA - if someone is interested in this, let me know because I'm taking it out of my attachment files to free up space for other pics.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Joan in Geneva

[Joan in GE]

I forgot to mention (in case any of you are examining that notebook photo very closely) the following..

 

I forgot something important about that notebook - that it was started using the Geneva method - where they group by sound, when the students are younger....So the top line was done when she is younger and they put the plural 3rd person together because the ending sounds the same as the single 3rd person. So in the top row, it goes 1,2,3 person singular, then 3, 1,2 person plural.

 

On the bottom row, I think she had changed to the typical format (now in 6th grade) with 1,2,3 person singular, then 1,2,3rd person plural. (I had just posted this in Yvonne's thread but wanted to make sure it wasn't missed).

Joan

[Nan in Mass]

Joan - I meant to tell you thank you for posting the photo. It is definately clear enough to follow. I think we are at a point where a notebook like this would be helpful. Now to find the time to make one...

-Nan