s/o Does your 12-14-year-old have any idea what they want to do as a career?

[TechWife]

Another thread brought up the challenge of planning for high school when the child hasn't decided on a career. While the question is totally understandable in our culture, it makes me shudder for a variety of reasons. I have really been struggling with cultural expectations in our local homeschool community - it can get quite cut-throat depending on who you are hanging around as far as student achievement is concerned. So here are some questions to ponder:

 

Should we really expect our 12-14 year old children to have an idea of what they want to do for a career?

 

Why would we want them to know this at such a young age?

 

Is this concern a result of our achievement oriented culture?

 

Is it a result of some parents wishing to live through their children, thus creating a culture of competitiveness and over focus that others get swept up in, whether or not that was their intent?

 

Does focusing the child's high school electives on their interests, no matter how narrow, benefit the student?

 

Generally speaking, if you prepare a student for college (going as high in the maths, sciences and liberal arts as possible for that particular student), wouldn't they be prepared to learn a career or to attend technical school should they choose not to go to college?

 

Do we pressure our children to perform rather than to learn?

 

I really struggle with these questions. I have a very smart under achiever who folds when we try to push him into anything. He has a really slow pace and trying to make decisions about how he wants his life to be ten years down the line is a pressure he can't cope with in a healthy manner. I am wondering if it is wise to expect any child of his age to have a clear career direction.

 

My ds loves science, is good at design and drawing, ok at math (he doesn't like it), loves to write out story boards and story lines for videos and draws incessantly. He also enjoys reading a great deal and has a high rate of comprehension. With his interests and abilities he could choose to develop any or all of them in the future. He has many opportunities to explore how his skills will benefit him in a career - but he's only 13 - he has a lot of time to do this!

 

Jumbled thoughts I know. Has anyone else thought of these things?

 

Here's a movie trailer that is interesting - has anyone seen this documentary? It hasn't shown in our area.

The Race to Nowhere

[Karen in CO]

My ds at that age was interested in video games and Manga. Now at 20, he is studying Japanese in Tokyo and has given up video games in favor of reading philosophy and still doesn't know what he wants to do as a career.

 

At that age, I wanted to get out of my small town. My parents kept me in a tiny, classical Christian school outside of the small town so that I could get a good foundation. Later, I wanted to be a rocket scientist all the way until I hit college chemistry then decided computers were much easier and a much wiser career choice for me. I'm still working in computers.

 

What I like about TWTM, although I'm no line-item follower, is that SWB stresses the importance of a solid foundation. I think my ideal college for my kids would be something like St. Johns that has the 4 year core study where nobody specializes and everybody gets a deep base so that they can continue to be well-educated.

 

A jumbled answer for your jumbled thoughts, but I've had a long day. These computers don't run themselves, and the kids don't teach themselves either.

[The Girls' Mom]

Although it happens occasionally, I think it's pretty rare that a 12-14 year old knows what they want to do when they grow up. For years, my dd wanted to be a vet. Now, she wants to be a librarian. When I was 15, I KNEW I was going into Archaeology. Never happened.

 

I think it's ok to just plan for them to be able to go to college and not have a specific career path/major in mind.

[tex-mex]

I was Liberal Arts as a major -- loved it. Switched majors a lot in my first 3 years of college. Many times the degree is merely a "diving board" into any career -- with the exception of certain specialties like being a medical doctor. :D

 

Son at age 14 really wants a career in video game design. He is very keen on science and math. Today we had a talk about how it would be good to have a "plan B" in case his beloved career aspiration does not go as he desires. He is thinking about it.

[tex-mex]

Although it happens occasionally, I think it's pretty rare that a 12-14 year old knows what they want to do when they grow up. For years, my dd wanted to be a vet. Now, she wants to be a librarian. When I was 15, I KNEW I was going into Archaeology. Never happened.

 

I think it's ok to just plan for them to be able to go to college and not have a specific career path/major in mind.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Crimson Wife]

Even if the student THINKS he/she knows, it'll probably change.

 

When I was in middle school, I wanted to be a science teacher. Then I realized that I wouldn't have much patience for all the bureaucratic nonsense (and this was even before NCLB).

 

The first couple years of high school, I wanted to be a prosecutor but then the whole OJ Simpson trial turned me off that idea.

 

For the last couple years of high school and first 2 years of college I wanted to be a pediatrician. Then I got serious with my now-DH and came to the conclusion that medicine was too family unfriendly a career.

 

So then I thought I wanted to go into medical genetics/genetic counseling. However, during my grad school interview I discovered that nearly all of the training was pre- and post-amnio counseling (stupidly I had thought it was going to be screening for things like breast cancer risk). I'm pro-Life so obviously I was not going to be "neutral" on the idea of aborting a baby with a chromosomal abnormality. Needless to say, I didn't get accepted and wouldn't have attended even if I had.

 

I wound up taking a business job after graduation and was a junior executive when I had baby #2 and quit.

 

I do plan on resuming paid employment at least part time when my kids are older and don't need me as much. And I'm considering doing something education-related, which would bring me full-circle :D

[mrsrevmeg]

At that age I wanted to be a zookeeper or a teacher. I also wanted to have a big family. I went to college to be a teacher. Now I homeschool. :D My oldest son has said since he was in second grade and saw Apollo 13 for the first time that he wants to be a NASA scientist. He has gotten to go to "Take our children to work day" at NASA Marshall for the past two years. The person who took him said he knows more about certain programs than some of the engineers. Maybe he will work fr NASA one day. Maybe not. S oit is up to me to make sure his education is well-rounded so that whatever field he chooses, he will be prepared.

[Mejane]

I don't think we should "expect" our kids to know what they want to do, but some kids do have a natural bent toward or over-riding interest in something early on.

 

I remember a boy I went to school with who always knew he wanted to become a doctor, and he did. My daughter started dancing at 4 and said, "This is what I want to do." She has talent, and we are fortunate to be able to give her opportunity, so she will most likely dance (she's 17 now.)

 

Otoh, I never knew what I wanted to do, and now at 50 I'm still weighing my options. :)

Edited April 23, 2010 by Mejane

[Peela]

 

Should we really expect our 12-14 year old children to have an idea of what they want to do for a career?

 

Why would we want them to know this at such a young age?

 

Is this concern a result of our achievement oriented culture?

 

Some will have a feel, many wont. "We" want them to know because it makes it easier to herd them like cattle into the correct production line so that they can be shaped into proper little citizens, obeying the system.

As homeschoolers, we dont have to do this, but many people are so influenced by the system, they will anyway.

And some kids will know.

And many wont.

And many who plan for one career will not stay in that career, because our society is changing so rapidly that "careers" are also in great flux.

 

 

Is it a result of some parents wishing to live through their children, thus creating a culture of competitiveness and over focus that others get swept up in, whether or not that was their intent?

 

Well yes, I believe that happens a lot. People project their desires and fears and their unfulfilled lives onto their kids all the time. Homeschooling parents have the opportunity to do this even more.

 

 

Does focusing the child's high school electives on their interests, no matter how narrow, benefit the student?

 

Generally speaking, if you prepare a student for college (going as high in the maths, sciences and liberal arts as possible for that particular student), wouldn't they be prepared to learn a career or to attend technical school should they choose not to go to college?

 

 

I don't know if focusing on electives helps every individual...I think our teens- or at least 12-14yos, if they can, should be allowed to experiment and express and try different things- they need to broaden their horizons, not narrow them unless they are really clear of their direction. But then...every kid is different and you can't set rules for everyone.

Of course,if you prepare a student for college, they will also be prepared for technical college etc...but not all are going to be college preparable. You just do your best with each child. Hopefully, we do what is in the child's best interests, not our own, even if the child is heading in a directon we dont think is going to be best financially or status wise.

 

Do we pressure our children to perform rather than to learn?

 

 

Well, the school system is all about producing more rats for the system, generally speaking. It is job market driven. We have a different possibility for our homeschooled students.

 

I think the classical model is about educating kids for the sake of educating kids- so that they have a hightened appreciation of life all their lives, whether they have a career or live as bums on the street. The side benefit is also a heightened access to the system to do whatever they want, but I dont think that is the prime reason for education, ideally, or in the classical model. Even future housewives should have been exposed to Shakespeare, history, poetry, many good books etc. We are such a career focused society, and in todays economic depression, it's understandable that people want to insure their kids against poverty...but both are possible. If we focus on the career rather than the education too soon...I think we do our whole society a huge disservice. Well educated housewives, plumbers who write poetry, builders who have an appreciation for classical architecture,....we have so much potential. We tend to define our whole lives by our careers...but we have so much more inside us than what we do to make money.

 

I really struggle with these questions. I have a very smart under achiever who folds when we try to push him into anything. He has a really slow pace and trying to make decisions about how he wants his life to be ten years down the line is a pressure he can't cope with in a healthy manner. I am wondering if it is wise to expect any child of his age to have a clear career direction.

 

 

Well, of course. He's not ready. Not many kids are at that age, in my experience. And even if they think they know what they want to do, they often change their mind.

Trust yur parenting instincts and your own reality, not what the crowds are doing.

 

 

My own approach is to let it take its own time...while at the same time, exploring and exposing the kids to various possibilities. I took dd when she was 14 to do a computer generated career guide and it wasnt much help. I was a bit stressed about what direction to head her in. As a parent, it IS easier if your kids knows clearly what they want to do, after a certian point. But dd had various ideas and nothign solid...then suddenly at 15, we got a clear picture, an inspiration, and that is the direction she is going in. Its not her life long career, she feels- it is training that will give her many options (mass communication and journalism) to branch out later. It just feels right for her.

Ds14 wants to be a business man, or a vet. He is not academic...he would have to work very hard to get into vet school, but I believe anything is possible so I don't discourage him. Business is more likely his direction- entrapreneur. He just needs time to mature. He will create his own path, I think, and it probably won't be a well trodden one.

I do a lot of research on possibilities for my kids- possibilitie of courses. I think that is part of my responsibility. They have a lot more options that the kids in school- and we think differently which keeps our options even more open.

 

Its not that making money is not something we dont need to focus on for our kids- it is. But its not the be all and end all, and teh better foundation they have, and the more we let them dream and dream about their futures, and open up their possibilities rather than close them down for financial reasons...the more likely they will live rich lives, no matter how much money they make. We are probably heading for difficult times. Maybe there will be great poverty. Things are changing rapidly. I think the best thing we can do is give our kids a broad and solid education. Being able to be flexible and adapt to changing circumstances with emotionally collapsing is a huge asset in the coming times. It is their attitudes, possibly even more than their actual skills, that will determine their potential.

[LibraryLover]

At age 13, my oldest wanted to be a professor of Latin. :) At 21, he is interested in Latin, ancient Roman and Greek history, religion, and is a really interesting writer who loves theater, and is very intuitive about human relationships. He also plays a couple of different instruments. He is obviously a religion/government major with a music minor. ;)

 

So. Yk, he thinks he wants to go to law school. :tongue_smilie:

 

If you look at his course work, he'd make an amazing Catholic Priest.

 

The Church does not realize how great it could be if they dumped that whole bassackwards no marraige rule and had a reform branch. ;)

 

:D Seriosuly, if we were Jewish, he might eventually be the head of some really cool reform synagogue. lol

 

My second child is an artist. My third child is a musician. My youngest child has as many interests as her oldest sibling.

 

I think travel is a great way to have time to consider the future--perhaps a travel/ gap/missionary year as an older teen--and then liberal arts study as an undergraduate. I've told my kids than it can take time to find the work that most matters to you, and most folks don't take the time. I also share with them that most of the people we know didn't decide on a career in the early years of undergraduate school, and that very often it took several more years, and maybe graduate school.

 

Cost is a factor, yes, and sometimes people have to take on loans. Education is an investment, and one reason we are encouraging our children to take gap years...either before they become undergraduates, or after they have their BA/BS. It's good to know where exactly you want to invest your money. ;) My dh got his degrees very young (gifted, yanno ) and is always telling the children he doesn't expect that; that there is no rush, that the world is one exciting place to be. We don't see any need for an 18 yr old, and certainly not a 12 year old! to know what she wants to be, unless they really know what they want to be! (I have one who lives and breathes art).

 

Dh and I talk about this often. Before we would let out children 'settle' on something, we would buy them a one way ticket to somewhere. Asia? Africa? Europe? Austraila? so they could buy some time to think out of their comfort zone.

 

Personally, I don't see student loans as being a death sentence, although I know many do. If you're going to live 90 years, you might want to make an educational investment. Of course, I don't advocate taking out loans to pay for stupid things, like a wide screen TV for your apartment...but a Eurail pass and a painting class in Paris...a couple of semesters in North Africa or Asia? Go for it.

Edited April 23, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Sonshine]

I have had 5 of my children know what they want to do at ages 12 - 14. One is graduated from college and doing it, two are in college and still studying for it, and the younger two are still pursuing it before they are college age. God has dropped some opportunities in their laps and others we have pursued. I strongly believe in testing the waters before committing to a 4 year degree plan for a career.

[Wendi]

As the person who posted the original thread, I thought I'd respond.

 

I do not expect a 12-14-year-old to know what they want to be. I just know some do, and wondered how the percentages looked, at least here on the board, just out of curiosity.

 

I am not competitive or pushing my child at all.

 

I have noticed comments on the high school board, and from moms I know teaching high schoolers, that different colleges have different expectations, and if a child decides to take certain majors, the college will expect more coursework in that area.

 

If my ds DOES start to show a definite bent in one direction, say, science or history, in the next couple of years, I'd want to provide courses that nurture that passion and interest, as well as potentially help him get accepted to whatever school he wants to go to after high school.

 

You have to plan ahead to meet the basic requirements for graduation, while leaving yourself with flexibility to adapt as your dc's passion and gifts indicate.

 

Some kids don't have any idea at all what they want to do (and I'm FINE with that) all through high school, so they just need to meet at least the minimum requirements and whatever the teacher mom believes is important.

 

I realize (and I said in my post) that most people change their minds anyway. My own dh started out as an electronics major, then ended up getting a degree in creative writing. I started out in theatre and ended up in special education.

 

I just know a few kids who are already pretty focused in at least a general direction, my ds isn't, and I wondered which was more common.

 

I think you read a lot more into my post than I intended. Nowhere did I say I expected him to know, or was disappointed, or wanted to push him into deciding or into a certain career. I said I know people usually change their minds. He's an only child. I was just curious!

 

Wendi

 

Wendi

[TechWife]

I am not competitive or pushing my child at all...

 

I think you read a lot more into my post than I intended. Nowhere did I say I expected him to know, or was disappointed, or wanted to push him into deciding or into a certain career. I said I know people usually change their minds. He's an only child. I was just curious!

Wendi

Oh dear, Wendi I did not read anything at all into your post. I saw it as a straightforward question. As a mom, I too am faced with planning high school and trying to match courses to potential interests and/or potential universities. I don't think you are pushing your child - goodness, I don't know you & wouldn't presume to think such a thing, really! I am sorry that you have been offended by my questions.

 

The reason that I started a new thread was because I recognized my question was only related in the most tangential sense & I wanted to talk about the questions that I have had recently as I interact with our local homeschool community, as I said in my post. The questions I have are not a direct result of your post or a reaction to it, they are simply questions I have had develop over recent months.

I have really been struggling with cultural expectations in our local homeschool community - it can get quite cut-throat depending on who you are hanging around as far as student achievement is concerned.

 

In my local homeschool community, there are people who withhold information from other home schoolers about such activities as Science Olympiad, math teams and summer camps because they don't want others' MIDDLE SCHOOL students to compete with their children - it reduces the chances of their kids winning an award and it makes the activity stand out less on college applications if "everyone is doing it." I find this a disturbing attitude with students this young.

 

The middle school & high school years, at least to me, are about learning and exploring new interests. I don't think there is anything wrong with trying an activity and deciding you don't want to pursue it long term at that age. That's part of the educational process. Unfortunately, that is not what I am seeing in my community.

 

In the not so distant past, students naturally gravitated towards areas of interest - the science kids did science fairs, the athletes played sports and everyone did everything in between. Now participating in an activity seems to be driven more by what the activity will provide for the future, not what it does now. Sure, winning a science fair will be a great boost on a college application (especially if it is the Intel Science Fair), but what the award represents (hard work, diligent record keeping, mastery of material, working with professionals) is far more valuable than the award itself and I see people loosing sight of that fact. I see people pressuring their sons to earn BSA Eagle Scout rank by the time they are 14 so that they have time to accomplish "more" after they are done. The BSA program is set up to run for boys up to the age of 18 - by setting their eyes on the award, they are forgetting about all of the valuable information that the boys learn in the process and they are forgetting the award is a recognition of what they have learned. The learning is supposed to be the goal, not the award.

 

I am only asking the questions because I am trying to figure out where I stand in this atmosphere, how to keep my own sanity during the high school years and how to create/maintain an environment where my son is allowed to develop interests at a normal rate, not because something looks good on an application. I know we as a family drive this outlook, but the competitive outlook infects the entire community at this point, so we hear it from other parents and my son hears it from other kids. We have to process it and reinforce our own family culture in the face of it. I'm trying to figure out if we are the only ones who see things like this in their communities and how they are handling the environment if they are.

[creekland]

My 13 year old came to me about a month ago and told me he now knew what he wanted to be when he grew up. He wants to be a Christian aid worker. I nodded and told him that would be fine if that's what he truly wants to do, I was ok with it.

 

THEN he added, "So I don't need any more math, right? I think I know all the math I would need to be a Christian aid worker..."

 

The little chap appeared to be bargaining with God... "I'll spend the rest of my life working for you if I don't have to do any more math!" (My summary, not a quote from him.) It's cute, but I told him it doesn't work that way!

 

My oldest didn't know what he wanted to do until age 16 (heading to microfinance). My middle son has known a wide based field (science research or md) since about 4th grade and hasn't wavered. My youngest may, or may not, decide to be an aid worker. I'm not holding him to it - and we're continuing math.

[Laurie4b]

I don't think high school should be a time to narrow interests, but to explore them. I believe I should graduate my kids from high school with all options open, which can't be done if we've "pruned off" some in favor of intense pursuit of others. I believe it should be the work of the adult child to do their own pruning and choosing in college.

 

So for my very musical son, we have continued to pursue high level math, even though he dislikes it, isn't great at it, and probably won't pursue it. Still, it leaves his options open for certain colleges that would have been closed had we not continued with the higher math.

 

My high school son who is most interested in science and math still takes high level literature courses and music lessons.

 

I do tailor their educations somewhat to their interests: musical ds takes lots of music lessons plus has taken music courses at the cc. Science/math ds participates in an extra-curricular activity that draws on his mechanical skills.