Any thoughts on this Geometry book?

[Peggy in Va]

My 7th grade ds is currently using Saxon Alg. 1, not by choice, but because he is enrolled with Seton for math. We are in the process of deciding whether he should take Geometry at the local high school next year or just continue at home. If we were to keep him at home, I would want to enroll him with Seton for geometry. The book they use is McDougall Littell Geometry by Ray Jurgensen, Richard Brown and John Jurgensen c. 2000.

 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0395977274?tag=schildnet0c&link_code=as3&creativeASIN=0395977274&creative=373489&camp=211189

 

I don't ever remember seeing this book mentioned on these boards before, so I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts, pros/cons, on it.

 

TIA

[Tiramisu]

FYI, Seton allows substitutions for math and science. I have dd currently enrolled only in English but I've already discussed the possibility of using a different math curriculum with both the math advisor and the "independent study" advisor in case I ever decide to fully enroll her. Like you, Saxon is not an option for us. I'm not sure if you can use ANY math or science curriculum or if they would need to approve your choice. English, religion, and history are the only subjects that you must use if you are enrolled.

 

Hope this helps in some way.

[ccm]

Not much to share but Ray Jurgensen is one of the authors of the 1960's Houghton Mifflin Modern Mathematics Series which is co-authored by Mary Dolciani.

[Teachin'Mine]

Peggy Seton allows any math, but they support both the text you mentioned and also the new Saxon geometry. Until a couple of days ago, I would have strongly advised against the book you mentioned.

 

My daughter did that book without any teacher support, and it was really rough for us to get through. She did well, but the lessons took long and the battles during correcting were ... well, battles. :tongue_smilie: It's so hard because the "solutions manual" is nothing more than an answer key for most problems. When it comes to long proofs, and they only show it done one way, it's impossible to know if the other way my daughter came up with was just as good, so I'd make her do it all over the way they did. Okay, so maybe I started some of those battles. :tongue_smilie: I so wish we had been enrolled with Seton, and then she would have had teacher support and could have discussed her method of solving the proofs. Some I could follow fairly well, but I'm not a math teacher.

 

So given the above, I would have jumped to Saxon geometry if it had come out earlier in the school year. Well, now I've seen their book, and it's no where near as rigorous as the one we did. It's also got quite a few glitches as it's the first edition and I'm sure most of these will be ironed out by the 2nd edition. We're at the very end of Algebra II, and they're doing "formal" proofs now - finally in chapter 125 out of 129! They take a lot of shortcuts in the proofs and don't explain nearly as well as the text we used did. And I can't believe I'm saying that as my impression was that the text we used left you on your own to figure out a lot of the problems in the problem set.

 

So if he's a strong math student, which it sounds like he is, I'd go with the text you mentioned and have the support of Seton. What I also found out when we were 3/4 of the way through the book, is that Seton only assigns some problems and goes about half way through the b problems. There are a, b and c problems. A is easy, b middle of the road and more challenging in the higher numbers, and c is for challenging the adventurous! We did all the a and b problems and even some of the c ones. Doing it Seton's way would have been easier and the support would have been priceless!!!

 

That's just what our experience has been, but it would be great if you could actually see both texts side by side. If you can go to a curriculum fair, you should see them there. HTH :)

[Brenda in MA]

The book they use is McDougall Littell Geometry by Ray Jurgensen, Richard Brown and John Jurgensen c. 2000.

TIA

 

Peggy,

 

My 8th grade son is using this book for Geometry this year. We are not enrolled with a school, though. I just got the teacher book and the student book and are using those.

 

IMHO, this book is excellent, wonderful, etc. I really, really like it. The lessons are easy to follow, and the material builds on itself wonderfully. The problems make use of Algebra concepts so the student does not forget the Algebra he has learned. We used this after Algebra: Structure & Method Book 1, and we will follow it with the Algebra 2 book in the same series.

 

One of the other posters does make a good point, though. That is the teacher's manual just has the answers to the problems, not detailed solutions. That has worked fine for me. If you think you might need more support and enrolling with Seton for the course would provide that, then it might be a good option.

 

I used Saxon with an older child (currently in college), and I would never use it again. My older child was able to memorize algorithms with Saxon and pass the tests, but he never really understood the underlying concepts.

 

HTH,

Brenda

[Peggy in Va]

FYI, Seton allows substitutions for math and science. I have dd currently enrolled only in English but I've already discussed the possibility of using a different math curriculum with both the math advisor and the "independent study" advisor in case I ever decide to fully enroll her. Like you, Saxon is not an option for us. I'm not sure if you can use ANY math or science curriculum or if they would need to approve your choice. English, religion, and history are the only subjects that you must use if you are enrolled.

 

Hope this helps in some way.

 

Thanks - I knew that Seton allowed substitutions for some courses but I couldn't remember what they were. What's funny is that our ps system will accept Seton's science credit but Seton won't accept the ps system's.

 

...in case I ever decide to fully enroll her.

This is exactly why he is enrolled for Alg. Seton happens to be 1 of 2 correspondence courses that our ps system will accept credit from.

 

Thanks again

[Martha in GA]

I have used that Geometry book for my two oldest children (and I've tutored a friend's child who was using it) and I think it is a great book.

 

Martha

[Peggy in Va]

Peggy Seton allows any math' date=' but they support both the text you mentioned and also the new Saxon geometry. Until a couple of days ago, I would have strongly advised against the book you mentioned.

 

My daughter did that book without any teacher support, and it was really rough for us to get through. She did well, but the lessons took long and the battles during correcting were ... well, battles. :tongue_smilie: It's so hard because the "solutions manual" is nothing more than an answer key for most problems. When it comes to long proofs, and they only show it done one way, it's impossible to know if the other way my daughter came up with was just as good, so I'd make her do it all over the way they did. Okay, so maybe I started some of those battles. :tongue_smilie: I so wish we had been enrolled with Seton, and then she would have had teacher support and could have discussed her method of solving the proofs. Some I could follow fairly well, but I'm not a math teacher.

 

So given the above, I would have jumped to Saxon geometry if it had come out earlier in the school year. Well, now I've seen their book, and it's no where near as rigorous as the one we did. It's also got quite a few glitches as it's the first edition and I'm sure most of these will be ironed out by the 2nd edition. We're at the very end of Algebra II, and they're doing "formal" proofs now - finally in chapter 125 out of 129! They take a lot of shortcuts in the proofs and don't explain nearly as well as the text we used did. And I can't believe I'm saying that as my impression was that the text we used left you on your own to figure out a lot of the problems in the problem set.

 

So if he's a strong math student, which it sounds like he is, I'd go with the text you mentioned and have the support of Seton. What I also found out when we were 3/4 of the way through the book, is that Seton only assigns some problems and goes about half way through the b problems. There are a, b and c problems. A is easy, b middle of the road and more challenging in the higher numbers, and c is for challenging the adventurous! We did all the a and b problems and even some of the c ones. Doing it Seton's way would have been easier and the support would have been priceless!!!

 

That's just what our experience has been, but it would be great if you could actually see both texts side by side. If you can go to a curriculum fair, you should see them there. HTH :)[/quote']

 

Thank you so much, this is very helpful. While ds is a strong math student, I am not a math teacher. We have been relying on dvd's and help from dh (when he's available) whenever there has been an issue. Luckily, there have only been a couple and most of the time ds doesn't even use the dvd's.

 

I am curious, do you feel that Saxon Alg. prepared your dd well enough to handle this book. I know she completed it, but would you recommend ds reviewing a different text, say 1960's Modern Alg. Book 1, before jumping into this. Currently he has a 98/99 average in the course. I only ask because since I originally posted, I've had the opportunity to read some reviews of this book and they've mentioned that this book is used in Honors Geometry courses.

 

The more I hear/read about this I'm thinking it might be a good fit for ds. DH is an architect, so I think between Seton's counselors and dh, ds should be o.k.

 

We live in the same town as Seton, so seeing both of the texts would be easy to do.

 

Again, thank you so much.:)

[Peggy in Va]

IMHO, this book is excellent, wonderful, etc. I really, really like it. The lessons are easy to follow, and the material builds on itself wonderfully. The problems make use of Algebra concepts so the student does not forget the Algebra he has learned. We used this after Algebra: Structure & Method Book 1, and we will follow it with the Algebra 2 book in the same series.

 

 

This, I like. Although we have not used them, we have the 1960's Structures and Method Book 1 and Book 2.

 

If you think you might need more support and enrolling with Seton for the course would provide that, then it might be a good option.

 

I would definitely want to enroll him, as math is not my subject. Dh works from home; however, he is not always available to answer questions at the drop of a hat.

 

I used Saxon with an older child (currently in college), and I would never use it again. My older child was able to memorize algorithms with Saxon and pass the tests, but he never really understood the underlying concepts.

 

 

While ds isn't memorizing, he does want to know the "whys", and I just don't feel like Saxon is helpful in that area.

 

Thanks again for your insight.:)

[Teachin'Mine]

Peggy the Saxon Algebra I was an awesome preparation course. She breezed through the algebra in the geometry text and had gotten a really good foundation in geometry from Saxon as well. My daughter uses the texts only, we've never had a DVD to go along with them, and she reads the lessons and does the work herself. Occasionally she'll ask me to check the solutions book as she's working on a problem she's not sure about. But what bogged us down in the geometry is that they show you how to do a few proofs and then leave the student on their own to figure out the rest. In hindsight, this gets them thinking more like a mathematician than the Saxon texts do - in my opinion, but it also means that I relied on guidance from the solutions manual and with it being just an answer key, for the most part, it was challenging and time consuming. If we had taken the course through Seton, it would have been so much easier!!! Your son should do fine with this course and their support.

 

One of the suggestions we had gotten from Seton, actually from a recent graduate, was to write all the theorems, postulates, etc. on index cards. That was a huge help!!!

 

I would definitely go to Seton and really look through both books and solutions manuals. See if you can talk with the math counselor for his suggestion as well. :)

[Peggy in Va]

Peggy the Saxon Algebra I was an awesome preparation course. She breezed through the algebra in the geometry text and had gotten a really good foundation in geometry from Saxon as well. My daughter uses the texts only' date=' we've never had a DVD to go along with them, and she reads the lessons and does the work herself. Occasionally she'll ask me to check the solutions book as she's working on a problem she's not sure about. But what bogged us down in the geometry is that they show you how to do a few proofs and then leave the student on their own to figure out the rest. In hindsight, this gets them thinking more like a mathematician than the Saxon texts do - in my opinion, but it also means that I relied on guidance from the solutions manual and with it being just an answer key, for the most part, it was challenging and time consuming. If we had taken the course through Seton, it would have been so much easier!!! Your son should do fine with this course and their support.

 

One of the suggestions we had gotten from Seton, actually from a recent graduate, was to write all the theorems, postulates, etc. on index cards. That was a huge help!!!

 

I would definitely go to Seton and really look through both books and solutions manuals. See if you can talk with the math counselor for his suggestion as well. :)[/quote']

 

Thank you so much for all your insight. You've really been a great help.:)

[Teachin'Mine]

You're welcome. :)

[Brenda in MA]

One of the suggestions we had gotten from Seton' date=' actually from a recent graduate, was to write all the theorems, postulates, etc. on index cards. That was a huge help!!! [/quote']

 

Great suggestion! We do this, too, but not on index cards. Ds writes all the theorems and postulates in a small spiral notebook (4" x 6") so they are available for easy reference later.

 

Some years ago with the older one, we started called it the "handy dandy notebook". I think it was after the younger one liked Blues Clues, and the name just stuck. :001_smile:

 

Brenda

[cindylee]

I"m a homeschool mom.....ex math teacher. I taught a geometry class using this book one time and I really liked it. My own daughter will be in geometry next year and I had thought about using this text with her but I have been unable to find where I could get a copy of the student text and the teacher's text. As I remember the teacher's text had the answers right by the problem so you would need the student text also, right. Where are you getting the books? Thanks!

[Peggy in Va]

I"m a homeschool mom.....ex math teacher. I taught a geometry class using this book one time and I really liked it. My own daughter will be in geometry next year and I had thought about using this text with her but I have been unable to find where I could get a copy of the student text and the teacher's text. As I remember the teacher's text had the answers right by the problem so you would need the student text also, right. Where are you getting the books? Thanks!

 

 

 

The isbn for the Teachers book is 9780395977286 and the Student book is 9780395977279. I did a quick search by ISBN and Abe Books has both. I'm sure there are other places that have them, E-Campus, Amazon, etc.

 

Currently Abe Books has the the Teacher ed. starting at about $100

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=9780395977286&sts=t&x=0&y=0

 

They also have the Student book starting at $11 http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=9780395977279&sts=t&x=0&y=0

 

Seton sells used copies of the student book for $30

http://www.setonbooks.com/viewone.php?ToView=P-MA10-21

 

I am not sure what McDougall's policy is for selling the Teachers ed. to homeschoolers, but if you wanted new you could check there. http://www.mcdougallittell.com/store/ProductCatalogController?cmd=Browse&subcmd=LoadDetail&ID=1005500000030773&imprint=hm&frontOrBack=F&division=M01&sortProductsBy=SEQ_TITLE&sortEntriesBy=SEQ_NAME#order

 

HTH

[Nissi]

Ds. used the Jurgenson and Brown text for Geometry and loved it. Duke TIP program provides DVDs for this course. I highly recommend this course

[Peggy in Va]

Ds. used the Jurgenson and Brown text for Geometry and loved it. Duke TIP program provides DVDs for this course. I highly recommend this course

 

Nissi - Thanks for posting this. Do you know if the child has to be enrolled with TIP in order to purchase the DVDs?

 

TIA

[Nissi]

Peggy, I don't think you need to enroll to purchase the DVDs. Just go their online store and purchase it.

[LoriM]

Dr. Stiff is one of the authors of that book...I studied with him at NC State, and he's brilliant, funny and wonderful. I think that's a great Geometry text...and I'm not a fan of Geometry. GRIN.

 

Lori

[MyThreeSons]

the lessons took long and the battles during correcting were ... well' date=' battles. :tongue_smilie: It's so hard because the "solutions manual" is nothing more than an answer key for most problems. When it comes to long proofs, and they only show it done one way, it's impossible to know if the other way my daughter came up with was just as good, so I'd make her do it all over the way they did.[/quote']

 

Your problem with correcting proofs is not unique to the text -- there are almost always multiple correct ways to complete a proof, unless the student is given several of the statements and reasons and needs to fill in the gaps. It's the main reason I have so many Geometry students at co-op and tutoring.

[Teachin'Mine]

You're right! But it would still be nice if solutions manuals gave the one proof, and with that a small blurb about other acceptable ways to approach the proof. It doesn't have to be detailed, but just the outline would be nice. :) Then again, the way it is it's keeping tutors like you busy! :D