Augustine's Confessions...

[Rhondabee]

Has anyone seen/read this modern English version?

 

Just thinking that it might be an easier read.

 

Or, list your favorite version for a "will read and do my work, but don't expect me to read on my own" 15yo DS.

 

Thanks!

[Faithr]

I have read an old 70's version that I had by Sherwood Eliot Wirt. I think it is kind of 'groovy' and I am not sure how accurate the translation is. However, I've had two teens read it now and enjoy it, so it has served as a very good intro to Augustine. I have heard that Chadwick and Sheen are both good translations. I followed your link and the complaints about that volume seemed like this edition is annoying. No table of contents??

 

I am hoping my 15yo will read this next year, but I like to read along with him for discussion purposes. With deeper books I find kids need someone to talk to about what they are reading.

[Rosie_0801]

Why exactly do you want your son to read it? I really think you should take pity on the poor lad and either skip it or have him read Vita Brevis instead!

 

 

Rosie- not going to read it again ever, ever, ever!

[Moira in MA]

We used the Maria Boulding translation when dd's & I reading it for Omnibus I a couple of years ago.

 

We also listened to the Teaching Company lectures -- they really made the text come alive.

 

HTH

~Moira

[Rhondabee]

I have read an old 70's version that I had by Sherwood Eliot Wirt. I think it is kind of 'groovy' and I am not sure how accurate the translation is. However, I've had two teens read it now and enjoy it, so it has served as a very good intro to Augustine. I have heard that Chadwick and Sheen are both good translations. I followed your link and the complaints about that volume seemed like this edition is annoying. No table of contents??

 

I am hoping my 15yo will read this next year, but I like to read along with him for discussion purposes. With deeper books I find kids need someone to talk to about what they are reading.

 

Looks interesting on Amazon. Do you have the one titled "Love Song" or just "Confessions in Modern English" (but by Wirt instead of the one I linked)?

 

I'm not really looking for scholarly as much as memorable. I found the version recommended below at the library. If that doesn't pan out, I may have to spring for this.

[Rhondabee]

We used the Maria Boulding translation when dd's & I reading it for Omnibus I a couple of years ago.

 

We also listened to the Teaching Company lectures -- they really made the text come alive.

 

HTH

~Moira

 

Found this at the library and reserved it. Thanks!

[Rhondabee]

Why exactly do you want your son to read it? I really think you should take pity on the poor lad and either skip it or have him read Vita Brevis instead!

 

 

Rosie- not going to read it again ever, ever, ever!

 

Touche!

 

Hmmm...First, this is a child who has always wanted to be a missionary, yet he has frankly lived a sheltered life. Add to this his very compliant nature, and he is the perfect candidate (I think) of someone who has great potential, but wastes it in disillusionment. What I have found reading the Ancient Great Books with him is that his understanding of how other people & the world "work" is changing - becoming more realistic, less "Barney-ish" if you will. (Do they have Barney in Australia? LOL) I have read a brief biography of Augustine, and his story is so different from my son's. It's one he needs to experience and appreciate so that he can understand those who don't share his background - whether he chooses to become a missionary or flip burgers at McDonald's.

 

Second, I was personally drawn to WTM because of the literature - not to any one work, but to the idea that it was reasonable to expect to have actually *read* all these books that for the most part I had only heard about. I didn't necessarily "want" him to read any one book on the Ancient list. Actually, there were a few I was really nervous about - but I'm glad for each one that we have read. (For that matter, there were many books on the 7th and 8th grade lists that I had never read before, and I am just extremely grateful that now I know for myself what's actually in them.) There is a confidence that grows with each classic that we read.

 

DS is a hard nut to crack. He says he doesn't "enjoy" reading, but boy he sure does get emotionally involved in our discussions. There have been some books I really thought we would end up dropping after 2-3 days reading. But, so far that hasn't happened this year. I think the trick is in finding the right translation/font size (yes, it matters!) - and knowing that I am not really expecting literary genius here. I'm just planting seeds of characters and plots and ideas for later; in many ways I'm finding high school to be just a grown-up "grammar" stage for real life. (sorry - not sure what that has to do with your question - LOL! - it's late, and I should go to bed!!!)

[Nissi]

I really liked the Henry Chadwick translation recommended by SWB. Maybe, you could find it at your library. Sometimes it's fun to compare translations. Ds. and I really benefitted from reading this book.

[Rosie_0801]

I read the Penguin Classics edition, since that's all our library had. From the answers to the few questions I posted on here, it's not a very good translation. Very readable, but not very true to the original. So don't get that one :D

 

Rosie

[Faithr]

I have Love Song. It's very readable.

[Faithr]

The professor who does the TEaching Co. lectures is brilliant and very eccentric and cute, I thought. Was it Philip Cary?

[Liza Q]

We used this version. My girls pretty much hated it but it was not the translation. They just could not wrap their minds around a man who had a moral crisis about stealing a pear yet acted like his having had an illegitimate child was not a big deal. Compared to the pear, I mean!!

 

Of course, the book was about so much more than that but....I guess he lost them there and they had no respect for him or his opinions.

 

The version was fine and they both finished it but I can't say that they got much out of it. Our "study" of this book did not get very deep because they just hated it so much :glare: This was one book that I regretted giving them as they were too young to really appreciate it. I first read it in my 20s and I thought very differently about it!

 

We had a better time with St. Athanasius.

[Faithr]

You know, even though I'm Catholic, I don't love all the saints. I have some that resonate with me and others that don't. St. Augustine is one that I just don't click with. There are others: St. Rita (she put acid on her face to make herself ugly. What????). Anyway, St. Augustine does not give me the warm fuzzies. I do appreciate though the power of his intellect and how he is one of the most influential theologians ever in Western thought, so he's worth knowing and reading. But one thing I found with Confessions is that he waxed hot and cold, to me. One minutes he'd be writing this profoundly moving account of his longing for God and the next he'd be simply in a rather cold way, relating something like how he left his lover. Maybe some things were too painful and he just couldn't open up about them???? But I understand how people, especially young people can get turned off by him. That's why it is good to have a lot of background before reading, I think. Which is why we enjoyed the Teaching Co. lectures on him. It gave my kids and me a broader perspective.

 

I've also heard that the Ryan translation, while fairly accurate, is not the most inspired and leaves out most of the lyricism of Augustine's writing.

[MicheleinMN]

We really enjoyed the Maria Boulding translation. We also used the Teaching Company cd's.

 

HTH

[Rhondabee]

I read the Penguin Classics edition, since that's all our library had. From the answers to the few questions I posted on here, it's not a very good translation. Very readable, but not very true to the original. So don't get that one :D

 

Rosie

 

I think I remember your troubles. :grouphug:

 

Unfortunately, our library has several Penguin's, but no Chadwick's. (I really can't wait til we hit Year-3 lit and I'll actually be able to use the library rather than buy everything!!!)

[Rhondabee]

We used this version. My girls pretty much hated it but it was not the translation. They just could not wrap their minds around a man who had a moral crisis about stealing a pear yet acted like his having had an illegitimate child was not a big deal. Compared to the pear, I mean!!

 

Of course, the book was about so much more than that but....I guess he lost them there and they had no respect for him or his opinions.

 

The version was fine and they both finished it but I can't say that they got much out of it. Our "study" of this book did not get very deep because they just hated it so much :glare: This was one book that I regretted giving them as they were too young to really appreciate it. I first read it in my 20s and I thought very differently about it!

 

We had a better time with St. Athanasius.

 

For others reading, and comtemplating, I thought I'd mention that I'm going to have DS read Chuck Colson's "Loving God" over the summer which gives a very brief bio of Augustine, and discusses the seemingly inordinate anguish over the pear. Colson did a really good job of reminding me of the "small" things I have done, that only *I* know about, that still cause me to shutter at how base and selfish (utterly sinful!) I truly am. For some reason it really is the small, hidden acts that I deeply regret, whereas some of the more obvious ones seem to have more socially accepted motivations. Maybe not everyone experiences that, I don't know.

[lllll]

...

[Rhondabee]

Ds read "Augustine's Confessions" when he was about 17 or 18yo - GB's version. Here's what he said about it (as written by himself) ...

 

(Disclaimer: It's been a long time since I read this book, so details may be a little fuzzy.)

 

It was fascinating, as far as I was concerned. It was the first real autobiography, and I have always wondered why it is not given the same praise as Don Quixote, which was the first true 'novel.' The details of Augustine's life in the declining Roman Empire were interesting, especially as Augustine is very frank (although a little vague) about his life as a lost soul in decadent Rome versus his life after conversion. Such honesty I found very rare in the GB list, and I can't think of another Christian autobiography that is required reading. The only thing that came close was Pilgrim's Progress, which was written in an allegorical, third-person style. Given that it was fascinating and refreshing, I actually enjoyed it at a time when I was somewhat frustrated and bored by the books (Virgil, Cicero, Josephus, Plutarch, The Koran, Boewulf). In a way it was even more interesting than the Bible, as it was something of a case-in-point story of the salvation that Paul preached in the NT. It was also a relief from the decadent madness of Rome and the grim backwardness of the Dark Ages that followed, so without it I think my GB reading would have suffered immensely, even been depressing. Also, I found him to be far more of a Protestant than a Catholic (he was quoted by Martin Luther and John Calvin). Being a Protestant, I was pleasantly surprised. To the best of my memory, it was not much different than Luther's bio and autobiographical tidbits I gleaned from Luther's Commentary on Galations.

 

Cool - I'm not there yet (obviously!), but another book I've been contemplating for next year is Luther's Commentary on Galatians. One thing I have really enjoyed this year is seeing the progression of literature and ideas, and how later authors/thinkers build on the work of those who came before.

 

Please tell your son thanks!

[Colleen in NS]

Actually, there were a few I was really nervous about - but I'm glad for each one that we have read. (For that matter, there were many books on the 7th and 8th grade lists that I had never read before, and I am just extremely grateful that now I know for myself what's actually in them.) There is a confidence that grows with each classic that we read.

 

in many ways I'm finding high school to be just a grown-up "grammar" stage for real life.

 

Nothing to do with Augustine, Rhonda, but I just want to say that I usually click on any threads you start, and this part of this post is very encouraging to me!