If MUS didn't work for your student, what did you use instead?

[razorbackmama]

I have a friend who has used MUS since the beginning with her kids. Her oldest has hit a wall of sorts. It has taken them a year to get through 8 lessons in Epsilon. She said that one of the main struggles he is having is that he can't remember that all a fraction is is dividing. They have repeatedly showed him that he was doing the same thing in Delta but just wasn't realizing it, but that hasn't seemed to help. I think there are some other problems as well, but that was one that she mentioned. So she is looking at finding something else that hopefully will click better with him.

 

So if your child just was not getting math at all with MUS, what curriculum did you find DID help your child understand math? Thanks!

[Penny]

Rod and Staff.

 

It just keeps going over the basics and steps up problems in baby steps. The child should learn to do the work; the understanding will come later. We shouldn't always expect complete understanding as the child is learning the 'grammar' of math.

 

MUS was one of many programs we tried. I'm glad we did; I still use the blocks!

[FordFamily]

I switched one of my students from MUS to Saxon. I tried other things but this one actually worked for her.

[melmichigan]

She's using the fraction overlays and he still isn't getting it? How old?

[razorbackmama]

She's using the fraction overlays and he still isn't getting it? How old?

 

As far as I know, yes, she's using them, but I will double check.

 

I do know that other parts of the curriculum frustrate her (for example, having 3rd graders be doing such huge multiplication problems when they often can't line up the numbers correctly due to handwriting, *even with* using graph paper or drawing lines to line things up), but Epsilon has by far been the worst. They finally just had to stop doing math because it was just tooooooooooooo frustrating for him. She got tired of the daily tears over math.

[razorbackmama]

Sorry, I missed your how old question. He turned 11 in January.

[razorbackmama]

I asked her about the fraction overlays, and here is what she said:

Yes, we're using them, but as you go along the guy doesn't use them in some lessons. Even when we go back to stuff he did before and was getting correct, now he doesn't remember it. I think there's not enough review and it's not frequent enough, so we're constantly back tracking when we discover he's forgotten something.

 

I suggested possibly Saxon or CLE, since it sounds like he needs more of a spiral approach with lots of review. Any other suggestions?

[Penny]

Well, for my non mathy dc, spiral approaches are disastrous, because the child never feels like he has anything down pat. Mastering many concepts at one time is very frustrating and mind blowing for some. That is why Saxon is either loved or hated. The kids who can't handle the 'little bits' approach despise it.

 

R&S is fantastic for the kids that don't get math. And, it does contain lots of review. I keep wondering why folks think that it just teaches a subject and drops it. Every lesson has review. The topics learned most recently get the most review, then periodically afterwards. This is actually how our memory works. The things that are new to us need to be reviewed more often, while the older memories just need to be refreshed. However, I admit that I keep a list and review some topics more often just to be sure. (However my dc is very anti-math.)

 

CLE is a great program, but I would use it for a child who is at least pretty good in math. It is about a year ahead of R&S. (Some topic levels are the same, but CLE has more advanced topics.)

 

BTW, I love those fraction overlays. Just use them to teach while using R&S. The problems and the progression of the problems is what makes it a great curriculum.

[Another Lynn]

Well, we never got to Epsilon... but we switched to CLE.

[Marla]

If the student needs more review than CLE seems like a great choice with its spiraling review. We used MUS Alpha and my dd was in tears because she just couldn't master her addition facts so we were "stuck". We switched to RightStart and completed Level B & C. RS was great but my dd still didn't have her math facts down and she really need more review/practice in order to cement things so we moved on to CLE. She's not crazy about CLE because it requires more of her (4 pages versus a one page worksheet in RS), but she is learning and her math facts are sticking!

[Pat in MI]

Epsilon is the hardest book in the series. IMHO My ds bogged down about half way through and I was ready to switch him too. The advice here was to work through it and I'm glad we did. He seems to have a good grasp of fractions now. We slowed way down in those parts. I had to sit right by him and show him step by step sometimes. The whole first page of a lesson was usually my writing. MUS doesn't present things you haven't worked up to. So if he is having trouble then they maybe need to step back and review for a while. Maybe as far back as Delta. They have wonderful practice sheets on their website under the drill. Sometimes a break from a sticky concept is all that is needed. Best of luck to your friend and her child.

Blessings,

Pat

[angela&4boys]

We made it through Zeta with one ds and Gamma with another. They both are thriving with CLE at present.

[razorbackmama]

Epsilon is the hardest book in the series. IMHO My ds bogged down about half way through and I was ready to switch him too. The advice here was to work through it and I'm glad we did. He seems to have a good grasp of fractions now. We slowed way down in those parts. I had to sit right by him and show him step by step sometimes. The whole first page of a lesson was usually my writing. MUS doesn't present things you haven't worked up to. So if he is having trouble then they maybe need to step back and review for a while. Maybe as far back as Delta. They have wonderful practice sheets on their website under the drill. Sometimes a break from a sticky concept is all that is needed. Best of luck to your friend and her child.

Blessings,

Pat

 

Yes, they have reviewed and reviewed and reviewed and reviewed. He is just STUCK. It's not even a case of going slowly anymore.:( She said they'll show him again that he was already doing fractions in Delta - it's just dividing - and he'll remember for that day and that's it. Finally my friend (an engineer, so math does NOT scare her LOL) gave up and had her dh start doing math with him in the evenings. I think he gave up too (he's an engineer also). Like I said, they made it to lesson 8 after a year....

[believe in miracles]

Math u see is all about building a foundation for life. 8 Lessons is still 8 lessons of mastered, solid math. No big deal that she's not flying through the book. What's great about homeschooling is that the we can cater to the student's needs. If it takes a whole year to do 8 lessons, no big deal! Once he masters this, there will be lessons in the future that he'll go through more quickly. It'll all even out. Tell her to hang in there. Maybe he can do some Life of Fred math for a break.

[razorbackmama]

Math u see is all about building a foundation for life. 8 Lessons is still 8 lessons of mastered, solid math. No big deal that she's not flying through the book. What's great about homeschooling is that the we can cater to the student's needs. If it takes a whole year to do 8 lessons, no big deal! Once he masters this, there will be lessons in the future that he'll go through more quickly. It'll all even out. Tell her to hang in there. Maybe he can do some Life of Fred math for a break.

 

But that's the kicker. He HASN'T mastered any of it, that she can tell. He does short-term and they move on, but then once they are further down the road, he's forgotten it all. He's not even remembering things from Delta.

[HollyDay]

Epsilon was then end of MUS for us. Dd was also just flat stuck. She knew the lessons prior. But, she was well and truly stuck. We switched to Saxon.

[Pat in MI]

Yes, they have reviewed and reviewed and reviewed and reviewed. He is just STUCK. It's not even a case of going slowly anymore.:( She said they'll show him again that he was already doing fractions in Delta - it's just dividing - and he'll remember for that day and that's it. Finally my friend (an engineer, so math does NOT scare her LOL) gave up and had her dh start doing math with him in the evenings. I think he gave up too (he's an engineer also). Like I said, they made it to lesson 8 after a year....

 

Oh boy he is stuck. :001_huh: Hmm, I guess they really should try something else. No help on which one, we have tried Singapore, Saxon, R & S, Miquon, and LOF with my math challenged ds. He didn't like any of them. MUS has been the best we found for him. CLE would be my pick of the ones mentioned, I like the looks of that and it is workbook format, but he would still have fractions to do. I'm not sure CLE would present fractions any differently. :confused: I hope they find the right math for him. I will pray for them. I do know how frustrating it can be.

Blessings,

Pat

[Marla]

But that's the kicker. He HASN'T mastered any of it, that she can tell. He does short-term and they move on, but then once they are further down the road, he's forgotten it all. He's not even remembering things from Delta.

IMHO, the plus of CLE is that it will teach fractions (and other math concepts) in bite-sized chunks then it provides practice and constant review which seemed to help it stick for my dd. The whole lesson is not on fractions, but fractions will come up in most lessons. CLE provides variety rather than sticking to one topic a child may struggle with so the student can "move on" in math knowing mastery will come in due time.

[melmichigan]

I would also lean toward CLE if you need to move away from MUS. But that's only from experience with my kids, we use SM, CLE and MUS. I actually just brought my DD into MUS Epsilon to reinforce fractions. Does he understand decimals?

[Devotional Soul]

We didn't like MUS and switched to CLE and are very happy now.

 

My friend who homeschools her 7 kids had them all on MUS until some were hitting walls. 3 of them switched to Saxon and are very happy with it, and they were behind in the placement test. The others didn't want to stop MUS.

 

Some kids do better with spiral and some do better with mastery.

[razorbackmama]

I would also lean toward CLE if you need to move away from MUS. But that's only from experience with my kids, we use SM, CLE and MUS. I actually just brought my DD into MUS Epsilon to reinforce fractions. Does he understand decimals?

 

I doubt it, since he hasn't covered that at all yet. But I'm not sure.

 

Yes, the more I talk with her, the more it sounds like a spiral vs. mastery issue. They looked at Saxon early on, but her husband wasn't impressed with the answers he got from the Saxon people at the booth at the conference LOL.

[HSMom2One]

MUS is an excellent program that I highly recommend. It worked for us for two levels, but then we had issues because my dh's work schedule changed drastically and he was the back-up teacher. I feel that MUS needs a to have parental input even though Steve is the instructor, so my dd started to struggle without her dad.

 

We switched over to TT and my daughter began to soar in math. She LOVES TT and is doing wonderfully. The program is very interactive, which is a nice change from MUS. I still believe in MUS, but TT has a great deal to offer for students that are struggling with math or just need a change. I know there has been some debate on this forum about TT, but I personally agree with those that say as long as a child is learning, advancing and enjoying their math curriculum -- then it is a good choice.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[razorbackmama]

MUS is an excellent program that I highly recommend. It worked for us for two levels, but then we had issues because my dh's work schedule changed drastically and he was the back-up teacher. I feel that MUS needs a to have parental input even though Steve is the instructor, so my dd started to struggle without her dad.

 

We switched over to TT and my daughter began to soar in math. She LOVES TT and is doing wonderfully. The program is very interactive, which is a nice change from MUS. I still believe in MUS, but TT has a great deal to offer for students that are struggling with math or just need a change. I know there has been some debate on this forum about TT, but I personally agree with those that say as long as a child is learning, advancing and enjoying their math curriculum -- then it is a good choice.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

I've mentioned TT to her as a possibility, giving her the heads up about the concerns I've read about. Do you happen to know how much review it has? That seems to be the kicker with her son.

[melmichigan]

I asked about decimals because I know of someone who learned decimals before fractions. It seemed like a backward way to do it to me but some children learn differently. :)