Does this sound like a form of bipolar disorder to you? (warning--LONG)

[ereks mom]

About once every couple of months, ER's former roommate at college (I'll call him Smith) has episodes where he becomes depressed for a week or so and wants to sleep all the time. He skips his classes and stays in bed, and when he does talk to anyone, he says things that don't make sense -- mostly about how everyone hates him and how he hates God because God isn't faithful, etc. Smith sends angry-sounding text messages (sometimes profane) to ER and other friends, telling them that they aren't his friends, that they don't really care about him, he hates them, hates God, etc. If his friends try to talk to him, to reason with him, he refuses, tellling them to leave him alone. This will last a few days, and then Smith will apologize, and things will be normal for the next few months. When he isn't having these episodes, Smith is one of the friendliest, most polite, most affectionate, most funny guys you would ever want to meet. It's never certain what sets him off and causes these personality changes.

 

Here is what I know about Smith's history: He is an only child (19 years old now) and his parents divorced when he was an adolescent. He has told me that he was relieved when they divorced because life was terrible when they were together. After the divorce, Smith lived with his mother, and attended the local public high school, where he was in the band and was apparently well-liked by others. Before Smith became a Christian in his late teens, he was a little on the "rowdy" side, from what I understand -- he did a little drinking and carousing with his friends. During holidays and school breaks, he visited his father, who lives a couple of hours away.

 

Smith started college last year, living at home with his mom and commuting the 20 miles between home and campus each day. At college, he is a good student (one of ER's fellow music majors), is involved in on-campus activities, is well-liked, and is known as a bit of a clown. This year, he is a sophomore, and now lives in a dorm on campus. He was ER's roommate during Fall semester, and he had at least one of his "episodes" during the semester. Here's what I know about that:

 

Last summer, Smith started dating a girl and he really liked her a LOT. (FWIW, Smith has told ER that beginning in high school, he has had a lot of girlfriends, and he tends to go from one short-lived relationship to another. He has been in at least 3 relationships that I know of in the two years I've known him.) One day not long after Fall Semester started this past August, Smith's girlfriend telephoned him out of the blue (she is not a student at the college Smith attends) and told him she didn't want to see him any more because there were some issues from her past that she is dealing with. Smith was devastated, but didn't talk about it until much later, ER said Smith seemed fine for about a week, but then things started to unravel.

 

It was also at about that same time that the college announced that they were discontinuing the music department. All of the music students took that very hard, and Smith was no exception. ER said Smith became depressed, and for quite some time, he did not himself at all. This was the beginning of the first "episode" that ER witnessed, and the really bad part of it lasted about a week or a week and a half, and then Smith went back to his normal self again.

 

This semester, Smith has another roommate and ER is in a private room. (ER said Smith is just too "needy"; he seems unable to entertain himself, so he wants to be with his friends --especially ER -- ALL the time. ER values his time alone, so his roommate's wanting to be with him CONSTANTLY really was more than ER could take.) The roommate change was amicable, though, and Smith and ER have remained friends as before.

 

ER called home a few days ago saying that Smith was in the midst of another episode. It started with Smith's skipping classes all week and staying in bed all day. ER tried to talk to him to find out what was wrong, but Smith became angry when ER told him he was being stupid by skipping his classes. He started sending nasty text messages and refusing to talk to any of his friends. One of the music professors noticed that Smith had not been going to class, and asked ER if he knew anything about it. (It's a small school, and the professors all know that Smith & ER are friends.) ER told the professor what was going on, and she took ER to meet with the head of the department; they decided to refer Smith to the school's counseling center. I don't know whether Smith met with a counselor or not, but ER said that Smith came to him later that day and said that he was going to "get tested for bipolar disorder".

 

So now you know the whole story -- as much as I know, at least -- and I am just wondering if Smith really does fit the pattern of bipolar disorder. Anyone care to comment?

Edited April 17, 2010 by ereks mom

[Mejane]

It doesn't sound as if he is having manic episodes, the other side to the depressive episodes you describe. My bi-polar friend would act depressed, then have periods when he wouldn't sleep and did things like drinking to excess, staying out all night, etc. His manic times were very well-defined. Perhaps each person's symptoms manifest differently. It couldn't hurt to be tested as treatment could totally change his life.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Mejane

[ereks mom]

http://www.webmd.com/bipolar-disorder/guide/cyclothymia-cyclothymic-disorder

[Jean in Newcastle]

It sounds like going to a counselor is the best thing for him - esp. since they are actually testing him.

[Orthodox6]

insufficient data, honestly. DX from a psychiatrist local to the school is the only useful avenue to follow.

[Laurie4b]

It doesn't sound as if he is having manic episodes, the other side to the depressive episodes you describe. My bi-polar friend would act depressed, then have periods when he wouldn't sleep and did things like drinking to excess, staying out all night, etc. His manic times were very well-defined. Perhaps each person's symptoms manifest differently. It couldnt't hurt to be tested as treatment could totally change his life.

 

It only takes one episode of manic behavior (Combined with the depressive episodes) to get a bi-polar dx. My guess is that there could well have been a manic episode embedded in what is referred to as "rowdy" behavior of his earlier life. On the other hand, what is being described is a scenario of extreme depressive symptoms that occur predictably in response to environmental stressors. Bi-polar is not necessarily predictable like that. And the fact that the symptoms are so short-lived may mean that friend doesn't meet the criteria for major depression either.

 

In any case, I'm not sure that it helps to try to do diagnosis over the internet--I think it would be a good idea for ER to ask informally whether his friend had ever thought that maybe talking with a counselor might be helpful. If ER has ever been, that would be the best way to bring it up. If not, if he knows others who have benefitted, that would be another good way. "I had a friend in high school that said that seeing a counselor really helped him work through some stuff. Have you ever thought about that?" In other words, finding a way to bring it up that is normalizing (others do it--it's not that you are particularly weird) is a good way to address it.

[Mergath]

Sounds like Borderline Personality Disorder could be a possibility. I have it. Feel free to PM me if you'd like more info. :)

[kdeno]

do not get manic, they go between depressed and irritable/agitated.

 

Anytime someone is too depressed to get out of bed it is a big problem.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

is drug use a possibility?

[ereks mom]

is drug use a possibility?

 

He REALLY loves milk, though. LOL ;)

[Terabith]

Yup. That sounds like bipolar to me. Only one episode of mania, or even hypomania, can "earn" you the dx.

 

In a way, it's good news. It's one of the more treatable mental health disorders.

[texasmama]

There is a lesser form of bipolar disorder called Bipolar 2, formerly called Cyclothymia. It doesn't sound like straight depression to me. It is a good idea for him to get help. He is at risk for suicide, and this shouldn't be brushed off because he has these "returns to normal".

[kdeno]

There is a lesser form of bipolar disorder called Bipolar 2, formerly called Cyclothymia. It doesn't sound like straight depression to me. It is a good idea for him to get help. He is at risk for suicide, and this shouldn't be brushed off because he has these "returns to normal".

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[LibraryLover]

Are you close to this young person? If you think it would be met postively, I would enrourage him to be seen at the campus health clinic. It sounds to me he needs a referral.

[elizam]

that's why I was very interested in this thread! My ds has a BP diagnosis but does not accept it or take meds. I think he has it and i worry about him a lot. it affects his overall functioning in a very severe way.

[ereks mom]

Are you close to this young person? If you think it would be met postively, I would enrourage him to be seen at the campus health clinic. It sounds to me he needs a referral.

 

Two faculty members who saw what was going on referred him to the counselor.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Two faculty members who saw what was going on referred him to the counselor.

 

Kind of makes you wonder where his parents are in all of this. . .

[ereks mom]

Kind of makes you wonder where his parents are in all of this. . .

 

...after he moved into the dorm and was no longer living at home. His parents are divorced, and he sees his mom on school breaks, but sees his dad only occasionally.

[Jean in Newcastle]

...after he moved into the dorm and was no longer living at home. His parents are divorced, and he sees his mom on school breaks, but sees his dad only occasionally.

 

yes, but I would expect to be talking to my kid on the phone at least once a week. . . but I realize there are many different family dynamics out there.

[Night Elf]

do not get manic, they go between depressed and irritable/agitated.

 

Yes, it's called hypomania and is a symptom of bipolar II disorder.

 

As for his parents, they might not see anything. My mom thinks my bipolar II diagnosis is wrong. She doesn't "see" it. I understand these things run in families. My mom has issues she won't deal with and we're not allowed to talk about with her. I don't seek her opinion about anything medical, especially mental health issues.

[asta]

Sounds like Borderline Personality Disorder could be a possibility. I have it. Feel free to PM me if you'd like more info. :)

 

Sadly, based on the OPs post - which arguably isn't the whole story - this young man does meet the DSM criteria (more or less) for BPD.

 

He does not, however, meet the criteria for BPAD, which is bipolar disorder (there is no hyphen in there).

 

Only a qualified psychiatrist who examines him in person is capable of making that determination.

 

My question is, why is this even a question for a message board? Whether or not this young man is BPAD or BPD, he is obviously not in either a mode of "harm to others" or "harm to self" (think: body cutting, suicidal ideation *with* a plan) - he's having a really hard time, and from the OPs post, it doesn't appear that anyone is chomping at the bit to do an intervention.

 

The best thing anyone can do when they see one of their friends on this path is to continue being their friend to the best of their ability. (Notice I did not say become a whipping boy.) Mental illness has a terrible stigma attached to it, and there is still SO much about it that is unknown. Different therapies work for different people. Medications, while helping with some of the symptoms of BPD, don't get to the root of it - therapy does. In contrast with BPAD, where medications are pretty much the first line of defense, and therapy brings up the rear. Both respond greatly to positive lifestyle changes (diet, exercise, healthy living environment, etc.). Both need a strong support system.

 

 

a

[cillakat]

2nd the insufficient datat but based on what there is i'd say.......

 

Borderline Personality Disorder and not Bipolar or it's various presentations.

 

K

[Night Elf]

In a way, it's good news. It's one of the more treatable mental health disorders.

 

:lol: Treatable, yes. But not necessarily quickly. My doctors are still working with me, a year after my diagnosis, to get an effective medicine plan in place. And I understand that it's possible, actually probable, that even if I stabalize with a medicine, it can all change and a new medicine course will need to be planned. I recently told my DH that I almost prefer life pre-diagnosis. At least then, I was hopeful that my depression and restlessness was due to various stresses in my life. Now, I wake up and go to bed every single day knowing I'm living with bipolar for the rest of my life. Ugh! I'm not saying this to garner sympathy, just sharing my own personal experience. This young man may be walking into an eye-opening experience. I hope his friends stick by him.

[Night Elf]

My question is, why is this even a question for a message board?

 

It's helpful to discuss things we don't understand, or want to know more about. The more information we have, the more we can try to understand and help where needed. It's also nice to see and talk to others who are experiencing a similar situation. It helps to combat the isolated feeling, or at least it does in my small world. :)

[asta]

It's helpful to discuss things we don't understand, or want to know more about. The more information we have, the more we can try to understand and help where needed. It's also nice to see and talk to others who are experiencing a similar situation. It helps to combat the isolated feeling, or at least it does in my small world. :)

 

No - THAT I understand - I actually work at a mental health site. What I meant was, why was a third party with limited information asking this question on a HOMESCHOOLING site?

 

 

a

[kdeno]

(((Beth))):grouphug:

[Night Elf]

No - THAT I understand - I actually work at a mental health site. What I meant was, why was a third party with limited information asking this question on a HOMESCHOOLING site?

 

 

a

 

You're putting such emphasis on the fact that is is a homeschooling board, but we all know it is not just about homeschooling. We discuss all sorts of things that are unrelated to homeschooling. You've been around for a while, I'm really not getting the whole emphasis on the homeschooling part of your concern.

 

Unless you're wondering why someone would want to discuss the possibility that an acquaintance might have a mental disorder. My previous answer covered that.

 

I'm unclear on what you're asking though. Why can we not discuss possibilities with this third-party person, as you put her? She's only asking if we thought if this young man fit the pattern of bipolar, not requesting we diagnose him. Except for the fact that we are talking about someone who is unaware we are talking about him, I don't see any other harm in the discussion.

[Night Elf]

(((Beth))):grouphug:

 

Aww... thanks. I just like to share things like this in case others are living with the same experiences. I read from books all the time, but it's not the same as seeing/hearing another person having the same experience. Of course, the internet is sort of between IRL and reading a book anyway. :tongue_smilie:

[texasmama]

Not that a diagnosis can really be made over the internet:tongue_smilie:, but this doesn't sound like Borderline Personality Disorder, in my experience. It resembles a cyclical pattern of depression alternating with periods of normalcy, which more closely matches a Bipolar diagnosis of some type. BPD is much more pervasive and doesn't "come and go". There are varying degrees of Bipolar Disorder and some people live a fairly normal life even without meds if their illness is not severe. The depression is the concern with this young man, particularly given his age and apparent isoloation from family. Many young people (and older people) attempt or succeed at suicide during a period of depression.

 

Again, not that it is possible to make a true clinical diagnosis over the internet, but I am a licensed therapist and have been practicing since 1993.

[texasmama]

You're putting such emphasis on the fact that is is a homeschooling board, but we all know it is not just about homeschooling. We discuss all sorts of things that are unrelated to homeschooling. You've been around for a while, I'm really not getting the whole emphasis on the homeschooling part of your concern.

 

Unless you're wondering why someone would want to discuss the possibility that an acquaintance might have a mental disorder. My previous answer covered that.

 

I'm unclear on what you're asking though. Why can we not discuss possibilities with this third-party person, as you put her? She's only asking if we thought if this young man fit the pattern of bipolar, not requesting we diagnose him. Except for the fact that we are talking about someone who is unaware we are talking about him, I don't see any other harm in the discussion.

 

I agree. Lots of collective knowledge on these boards. As many of us have stated and as the OP seems to be aware of, a diagnosis of a mental health condition cannot be made from information by a third party given on the internet. However, anything that helps the people who are in contact with this young man to be more educated and aware of the potential seriousness of his situation is a good thing, I believe.:001_smile:

[Jean in Newcastle]

My question is, why is this even a question for a message board? Whether or not this young man is BPAD or BPD, he is obviously not in either a mode of "harm to others" or "harm to self" (think: body cutting, suicidal ideation *with* a plan) - he's having a really hard time, and from the OPs post, it doesn't appear that anyone is chomping at the bit to do an intervention.

 

 

a

 

She's wanting to understand better something that is touching her son - the former room-mate and friend of the young man under discussion. She has not violated his privacy - we do not know his name, his college etc. She really doesn't want a diagnosis per se - she's already told us that the college counseling service is handling that. Some of the posts on this board are direct questions, some are sharing of experiences, some are jokes, and some are general discussion of issues (as well as other things). This one is more in the sharing of experiences/ general discussion of issues category, in my opinion.

[KidsHappen]

Based on my extensive experience with bi-polar, there is absolutely nothing in this post that triggers bi-polar in my mind. It sounds to me like difficulty dealing with stressful life situations which is not uncommon nor does it mean he doesn't need help. Mental illness is a life long illness that may be exacerbated by stressful events but it is not caused by stressful events. I would say that if his life was fairly normal before his current difficulties then mental illness is probably not his problem. Perhaps some time with a counselor is all he needs or even a short term medication to help him through this difficult time. Of course, when is doubt a dr.'s consultation is always a good idea.

[LibraryLover]

yes, but I would expect to be talking to my kid on the phone at least once a week. . . but I realize there are many different family dynamics out there.

 

 

My college son and I text daily, tag each other with photos , respond to each others comments a few times a week on FB, and talk on the phone about once a week. However, it's possible a young adult tells you only what you want to hear (or read). I wouldn't hang the parents at this point. (My son seems fine and dandy...lol...btw).

Edited April 18, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Jean in Newcastle]

My college son and I text daily, tag each other with photos , respond to comment a few times a week on FB, and talk on the phone about once a week. However, it's possible a young adult tells you only what you want to hear (or read). I wouldn't hang the parents at this point. (My son seems fine and dandy...lol...btw).

 

No worries - I'm not out to get the parents! I just wondered why it didn't seem to be on their radar too. . .

[LibraryLover]

No worries - I'm not out to get the parents! I just wondered why it didn't seem to be on their radar too. . .

 

Have you always told your mother everything? ;) (Which I realize is a question set up to be answered yes by some. lol)

Edited April 18, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Jean in Newcastle]

Have you always told your mother everything? ;) (Which I realize is a question set up to be answered yes by some. lol)

 

Nooooooo. There is much that I have not told my mother. Much of it from my college years.:blushing: In my defense, my parents lived over 3000 miles away from me in college and since it was still the dark ages, pretty much all communication was by old-fashioned mail.

[cillakat]

No - THAT I understand - I actually work at a mental health site. What I meant was, why was a third party with limited information asking this question on a HOMESCHOOLING site?

 

 

a

 

Because that's what we do on the general board.

 

K

[asta]

Because that's what we do on the general board.

 

K

 

We ask for input on the mental health of our children's ex-roomates? Who became their ex-roomates because our children decided they were too needy? But suddenly, our child is not too concerned with ex-roomie's neediness. Why is this? Has the dynamic of the relationship changed? Has living apart from one another allowed our child to see ex-roomie in a more sympathetic light?

 

And while we're at it, small college or not, since when does HIPPA allow anyone to bring an EX roommate into meet the head of a department to tell them that THEIR ex roommate has been referred for psychiatric services?

 

My own husband wouldn't be allowed to be told that if I were thrown in the bin.

 

I know what this forum is for. I was trying to figure out what this thread was for. You have all graciously answered in many ways.

 

 

a

[Mejane]

I'm not sure about the legal aspects of the situation, but I can certainly understand how someone, especially a kid, could find a living situation intolerable but still care about someone as a friend and want to help.

 

I usually agree with you, asta, but I'll admit I'm not following you on this one. :confused:

[texasmama]

Lots of colleges have programs for students to report unusual or concerning situations with other students, given that many of these kids are so young and may be away from home for the first time. HIPPA doesn't apply here because this young man's peers aren't professionals. If this were my son, I would be so grateful for anyone who expressed any concern or involvement to try to help him. Many adults don't know how to handle these sorts of situations so I think the young men did a wise thing in taking their concerns to the dean so an adult could help the young man.

[Night Elf]

We ask for input on the mental health of our children's ex-roomates?

 

Well, just to toss it out there, I got the impression they were ex-roommates, not ex-friends. The OPs son is obviously concerned enough to not only talk with his mother about it, but to talk with university officials as well. He's reaching out for help to help his friend. There are people out there who wouldn't care to bothered, especially because they are so embarrassed and uncomfortable about the situation. I happen to have learned that through personal experience. I don't see the OP did anything wrong. Her son likely asked questions and since she didn't have answers, she came to ask the Hive. :)

[ereks mom]

deleted

Edited April 18, 2010 by ereks mom

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

We ask for input on the mental health of our children's ex-roomates? Who became their ex-roomates because our children decided they were too needy? But suddenly, our child is not too concerned with ex-roomie's neediness. Why is this? Has the dynamic of the relationship changed? Has living apart from one another allowed our child to see ex-roomie in a more sympathetic light?

 

And while we're at it, small college or not, since when does HIPPA allow anyone to bring an EX roommate into meet the head of a department to tell them that THEIR ex roommate has been referred for psychiatric services?

 

My own husband wouldn't be allowed to be told that if I were thrown in the bin.

 

I know what this forum is for. I was trying to figure out what this thread was for. You have all graciously answered in many ways.

 

 

a

 

Well, HIPPA governs me, as a medical professional from disclosing information discovered during the course of my work and ethics require me to keep others' medical information I am privy to for personal reasons private, but HIPPA in no way governs two non-professional people from discussing a third person's private information learned during the course of private life. Does that make sense?

 

In other words, HIPPA has nothing to do with gossip between two people who are not healthcare professionals or otherwise privy to private information through work or volunteer positions.

 

At any rate, no identifying information has been disclosed.

[ereks mom]

We ask for input on the mental health of our children's ex-roomates? Who became their ex-roomates because our children decided they were too needy? But suddenly, our child is not too concerned with ex-roomie's neediness. Why is this? Has the dynamic of the relationship changed? Has living apart from one another allowed our child to see ex-roomie in a more sympathetic light?

 

And while we're at it, small college or not, since when does HIPPA allow anyone to bring an EX roommate into meet the head of a department to tell them that THEIR ex roommate has been referred for psychiatric services?

 

My own husband wouldn't be allowed to be told that if I were thrown in the bin.

 

I know what this forum is for. I was trying to figure out what this thread was for. You have all graciously answered in many ways.

 

 

a

 

First, I do not believe that I have violated any confidences. I've not mentioned any locations nor called anyone by his/her actual name. I am not in a position to help Smith directly since he is there and I am here, and also, I have very little personal experience in dealing with this type of situation. By posting my question on the general board, I was attempting to gain information that would help me understand the depth of my son's friend's problem.

 

Second, my son has expressed concern for his friend --even before they became roommates -- when he believed Smith was simply immature and attention-seeking. They were roommates for a semester, but mutually decided not to room together this semester. As I stated in the original post:

 

This semester, Smith has another roommate and ER is in a private room. ...The roommate change was amicable, though, and Smith and ER have remained friends as before.

 

It has only been since they've become "ex-roommates" that my son has begun to recognize that his friend might truly have a problem.

 

Third, the Professor, knowing that my son and Smith are friends, asked my son if he knew where Smith was and why he had not come to class. My son explained to the professor about Smith's skipping his classes & sleeping all day, sending nasty/angry text messages, and refusing to talk to any of his friends. When the professor heard this, she immediately took my son to the head of the department and had ER explain to him what had been happening with Smith. The department head immediately decided to refer Smith to the school's counseling center. This was NOT a decision that the professors made and then shared with ER. He was there when the decision was made; he was a part of that. I do not believe that any HIPAA laws were violated.

Edited April 18, 2010 by ereks mom

[asta]

I never said, nor did I believe Ereks mom violated any confidences. Frankly, I never should have brought it up.

 

In the world in which I operate, 3rd party mental health info is never discussed. Never. It is always lacking in crucial information of some sort that (usually) would explain the entire situation.

 

I regret that I took time away from people who could have been responding to other things.

 

 

a