Do we REALLY have to teach a foreign language??

[sharon family school]

This question is especially for those who have had a child begin college...Is it really imperative that I teach my HS student a foreign language? Our local HS sees it as an elective....and I've researched several colleges in Arkansas (our home state) and just don't see where they specifically require 2 years of a foreign language for admission. I keep hearing that I must fulfill this requirement....is this really a fact???

Susan

[Savermom]

My ds will be starting high school next year so I'm doing a lot of reading. Last night I was reading a book called Homeschooling High School by Jeanne Gowen Dennis. Excellent resource! However, there was a repetitive theme regarding high school graduates not being well prepared in their foreign languages--mostly not being able to speak it well.

 

The book included many quotes from different college admissions officers regarding the weakness in lab sciences and foreign languages. (in homeschoolers) I want to know why the emphasis on foreign languages. Why does it really matter if they have taken 3 years of Spanish or French? How many of us took foreign languages in high school and how has that helped us in college or the "real world?" I don't see the relationship between being able to speak a foreign language decently and doing well in college.

 

I'm actually a bit irritated after reading all of those references in that book! Can someone enlighten me? Sure, if you are going into business or doing something that would use a foreign language, I can see it. However, the majority of kids won't use it so let them focus on something useful.

 

Rant over. :rant:

[QueenCat]

It's required for a college prep diploma from the umbrella schools in our state but is not required for admissions to our state universities. However, in the more competitive state schools, it could be the difference between your child and the child who has the foreign language, all other things being equal. Plus the state universities require 2 semesters of Intermediate Language so if you don't do it in high school, you'll have to take 2 semesters of Elementary Language first. There are easy ways to teach foreign language: Rosetta Stone and Switched on Schoolhouse are both parent friendly.

[Love2Smile]

I was just talking to my dh about this the other day. Our kids are not college bound, but will most likely go to a Jr. College first. It is not required by our local highschools either unless they are State College bound

[MomsintheGarden]

When Ds was in home school high school (2008 grad), he begged us to allow him to skip doing a foreign language. We acquiesced, grudgingly, thinking that he would probably get a technical degree and wouldn't need it for college.

 

We were wrong. After he had been accepted at Virginia Tech, we went to an engineering open house there. On every table in the student center eatery was a card saying that Tech now had a foreign language requirement. If a student did not have 2 or more years of a fl in high school, he/she would have to take it at Tech.

 

So now instead of doing Rosetta Stone for two easy years at home, he must take a year's worth of fl for a letter grade at Tech. He tried half-heartedly to study for the CLEP last summer (which would have given him credit), but didn't feel he was prepared enough to take the test. He must pile those courses on top of his double majors in math and computer science.

 

He really wishes we had made him do foreign language in high school!

 

HTH,

GardenMom

[Mabelen]

If it is not a high school requirement and your state university system does not require it either, and you know that your children will not go out of the state for college, then I guess not, you don't need foreign language. Having said that, I would consider the fact that we live in an increasingly global world (and I think we have reached the point of no return), where our children will be competing with people from all parts of the globe for jobs, so in that light I think the longer you delay foreign languages the more at a disadvantage your children might be.

[Heather in VA]

Are you absolutely sure your child will go to one of the few colleges that don't require it? I know from this board that our state schools and those in the states around us require more than other places (University of VA for example wants 5 and most recommend 4 years). But most of the colleges I've looked at other places want 2.

 

But if you are absolutely sure that they either won't go to college or the school they will do doesn't want it, I guess you could skip it.

 

Heather

[Michelle in MO]

When Ds was in home school high school (2008 grad), he begged us to allow him to skip doing a foreign language. We acquiesced, grudgingly, thinking that he would probably get a technical degree and wouldn't need it for college.

 

We were wrong. After he had been accepted at Virginia Tech, we went to an engineering open house there. On every table in the student center eatery was a card saying that Tech now had a foreign language requirement. If a student did not have 2 or more years of a fl in high school, he/she would have to take it at Tech.

 

So now instead of doing Rosetta Stone for two easy years at home, he must take a year's worth of fl for a letter grade at Tech. He tried half-heartedly to study for the CLEP last summer (which would have given him credit), but didn't feel he was prepared enough to take the test. He must pile those courses on top of his double majors in math and computer science.

 

He really wishes we had made him do foreign language in high school!

 

HTH,

GardenMom

 

I would agree with you. You would need to check with the requirements of the various colleges.

 

However, in this day and age, I think it's almost imperative that high school students at least have some exposure to a foreign language. Two years of a foreign language at the high school level would provide that exposure. Many colleges require two years of a foreign languages; more competitive schools require three or four years.

 

In past threads on these forums, I've read decent reviews (I think by Jean in Wisc.) about Switched on Schoolhouse for Spanish. I don't think Rosetta Stone is very strong in the grammar department.

 

FWIW, there are online courses for foreign languages, among them German Online at Oklahoma State University. For good online courses for other foreign languages, I would continue to research these forums on that subject or else research options on the internet. The University of Missouri has an online high school program which includes a foreign-language component. I'm not sure, but I think that you can take the courses separately and do not have to enroll in the entire program.

 

I do think that there is a practical, real-life benefit for foreign language study. I realize that studying a foreign language is not everyone's cup of tea; however, when I was in high school, taking high school physics seemed pointless to me. Since that time, I wish I had more time to study more advanced sciences and have read more on physics, only books that are printed for non-science types like myself. :)

 

Foreign language study reinforces English grammar and broadens one's perspective. As an individual studies the language and literature of another country, that person grows in an understanding of that people as well. For some college majors, foreign language study is imperative: English, history, archeology, even science. One of the students in an earlier German course was getting his master's degree in chemistry, since many chemical publications are in German.

 

Being an American, there are at times humbling experiences with people who are fluent in foreign languages. I remember being in Europe in 1985 and asking for general info. and directions at a traveler's bureau in Austria. The young woman who assisted me (I spoke German) answered me in German, and then turned around and answered questions from another couple in English, and turned to a third man and answered in Italian. All within a matter of a few minutes. Another vivid memory is being dropped an entire letter grade by a German professor because I consistently misspelled/misused an English word. His English was better than mine at the time, and his proofreading was precise.

 

So, yes, I think there are practical benefits to at least taking the minimum two years of a foreign language.

 

I would recommend finding out which language your student is most interested in, and also looking into which languages would be most beneficial for his/her major.

 

Best wishes, and I hope this helps!

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

I didn't read all of the replies, but I did want to say that every. single. university around here that I've looked at has a specific statement about "foreign language deficiencies" and "math deficiencies" from high school.

 

If a student doesn't have two years of foreign language in the same language during high school and three years of math above the algebra I level in high school, they will be required to take additional classes in those subjects in addition to the requirements presented by their chosen major.

 

I wouldn't skip it if I were you. You just never know where your children may end up and I'd hate to be the reason they had to take on additional work.

 

I went back to college almost 20 years after the first go-round and even I had to produce a high school transcript to prove that I didn't have any math or foreign language deficiencies, so they are very serious about it.

[Grace]

I have a foreign language question. When entering college, do they "test" for their knowledge of the language? Is there a placement test or questions on the entrance test in college for Foreign Languge?

[Love2Smile]

:lurk5:

I have a foreign language question. When entering college, do they "test" for their knowledge of the language? Is there a placement test or questions on the entrance test in college for Foreign Languge?

:lurk5:

[Jane in NC]

I have a foreign language question. When entering college, do they "test" for their knowledge of the language? Is there a placement test or questions on the entrance test in college for Foreign Languge?

 

As usual, check with the college. Departments typically administer their own placement exams or use the result of something like an SAT subject test or AP exam to help determine placement. The departmental exams are often given as part of the initial registration or freshman orientation process.

 

Jane

[Colleen in NS]

there was a repetitive theme regarding high school graduates not being well prepared in their foreign languages--mostly not being able to speak it well.

 

There is the speaking aspect, esp. in a shrinking world...

 

Foreign language study reinforces English grammar and broadens one's perspective. As an individual studies the language and literature of another country, that person grows in an understanding of that people as well.

 

And there is the thinking aspect of being able to view issues through another culture's eyes. If a person doesn't care about being able to do this, fine. But the structured language training does help a person to learn to order other info. in his/her mind, too - a benefit which comes in handy in many other study/real life areas.

 

I surprised to read that some universities/colleges don't require foreign language credits anymore.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Colleen in NS

[Storm Bay]

Where we live, public hs requires 2 semesters of a foreign language (it's semester, so that would be 2 years in an all year system) in order to graduate. As others have said, I'd check with the colleges you are interested, because many require 3-4 years of a foreign language, at least in liberal arts (not sure about sciences.) We're going to do 3-4 to keep doors open. I don't waht any of my dc having trouble getting in somewhere they suddenly decide they'd like to apply to after it's too late to do that much.

 

My eldest dd is doing German 1 with RS Level 2 (2nd Homeschool edition, so workbook, but not the grammar) along with German is Fun 1 & 2 for grammar, etc. Next year I'm going to cough up the money and have dd do it online, probably through OSU. I'm not going to buy the new RS with grammar because it would only save money if at least 2 of my other dc choose to do German in hs, and they might choose Latin or something else even though they're doing RS German Level 1 now.

[EKS]

It doesn't seem to be required for any of the schools my son is interested in but we are doing three years of Latin to be safe. I guessing that it may not be stated as a requirement but that it is expected of a solid applicant.

[Ellie]

This question is especially for those who have had a child begin college...Is it really imperative that I teach my HS student a foreign language? Our local HS sees it as an elective....and I've researched several colleges in Arkansas (our home state) and just don't see where they specifically require 2 years of a foreign language for admission. I keep hearing that I must fulfill this requirement....is this really a fact???Susan

 

But high schools require a specific number of electives. That a foreign language is an elective doesn't mean it isn't required.

 

We hsed in California, and both of my dds took their foreign languages at the community college. C.c. students who transfer to the state college/university system are guaranteed to be admitted, and only those classes which are being transferred count, not anything that was done in high school. Community colleges in California don't require high school diplomas or transcripts or SAT/ACT scores or anything other than a placement test, so I chose to do c.c. instead of high school.

 

When I graduated back in the day, I was a vocational student and was not required to take a foreign language (other than shorthand, lol).

 

If your dc are college bound, you should check with the colleges they're interested in and see what they want. You might also check out the c.c. and see what your options are there.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

Where we live, public hs requires 2 semesters of a foreign language (it's semester, so that would be 2 years in an all year system) in order to graduate. As others have said, I'd check with the colleges you are interested, because many require 3-4 years of a foreign language, at least in liberal arts (not sure about sciences.) We're going to do 3-4 to keep doors open. I don't waht any of my dc having trouble getting in somewhere they suddenly decide they'd like to apply to after it's too late to do that much.

 

The degree programs we've been looking at: for liberal arts 4 semesters of a modern foreign language; for the sciences, 2 semesters of any foreign language.

 

They all require that the applicant has had 2 full years of the same foreign language in high school to meet minimum application requirements.

 

Now I'm speaking of public universities in central Texas, so of course, YMMV.

[Alyce]

higher education. If your child hasn't had FL because it's not required for the state colleges you are looking at that's great but what happens if he gets there and decides he doesn't like it or wants to change majors mid stream and will have to attend a different school. It's likely that he may go to a college that requires foreign language for it's students degree program. Yes, most schools administer a placement test and if the student flunks they must take beginner foreign languages courses. These count as a letter grade but not as a course to complete the major. They are in essence remedial classes. Many colleges require their students to take at least a semester of FL to graduate so you might take these things into consideration when you think about whether or not to do a FL.

[elegantlion]

And there is the thinking aspect of being able to view issues through another culture's eyes. If a person doesn't care about being able to do this, fine. But the structured language training does help a person to learn to order other info. in his/her mind, too - a benefit which comes in handy in many other study/real life areas.

 

 

:iagree:IMO foreign language studies takes us through a process of understanding that applies to many other areas of life. I took 4 years of Spanish in high school. Language wise the best it did was help me muddle through a week in Costa Rica twenty years after graduation. However, the study of the language taught me how to take something that was foreign to me, for lack of a better word, and learn how to dissect it and make it relevant to me.

 

I also see mathematics and learning to read music as a sort of language learning, yet most of us don't grow up to be mathematicians or musicians.

 

As I think about it every job I've had, several diversified areas from veterinary medicine to insurance underwriting, required me to learn the "language of the job" to perform my duties properly. I would not hesitate to say learning a foreign language helped prepare me for those jobs.

[Laura Corin]

For me this belongs with, 'Do I really have to teach maths?' or 'Do I really have to teach English?' It is one of the elements of a basic education, so if I couldn't teach the subject myself, I would find someone who could.

 

Laura

[Grace]

I have a foreign language question. When entering college, do they "test" for their knowledge of the language? Is there a placement test or questions on the entrance test in college for Foreign Languge?

 

I guess my question is, if you are just taking Spanish in High School so you can check off the requirement, does the course you use matter?

 

Besides the course title, the credits assigned (meaning you did the correct number of hours), and the grade assigned, will any college ask or test your knowledge?

 

If there is some kind of general foreign language placement test in college, should you wait to do Spanish until 11th and 12th grade for retention?

(Obviously this would be for a degree not requiring foreign language classes in college.)

 

Does it matter if it is 144 hours of BJU DVD Spanish, or SOS spanish, or Rosetta Stone, or is it worth spending the money for an online Spanish class (for example: The Potters School) or hire a tutor.

 

I have had trouble writing this because I don't want it to sound like I plan on "taking the easy way out" or "setting the bar too low". I am new to planning high school and I want a rigorous course of study for my kids, but not sure if that means in everything, and how do you choose which should get more time/attention/money towards. If it is not something that you plan on taking an AP test for, or an SAT subjuct test for, is settling for just a "good" course be okay?

 

Personally, my kids are presently doing SOS Secondary Spanish (8th). I had plans to use the BJU DVD's and restart with Spanish 1 and 2 in 9th and 10th. Then someone told me BJU doesn't finish the book, so I thought I could get a tutor to finish the book.... But then that all seemed really crazy because we are only taking Spanish to meet the requirement of foreign language. But then if there is a 'test' to show how much spanish you know/remember, maybe I should wait unitl 11th-12th.... though most people don't seem to do that.... :lol:

[sharon family school]

Wow! I can't believe I posted this new thread today and got so many replies right away! You ladies are great and I really appreciate the time you took to respond with your individual stories and advice.

I am so grateful!

Susan

[buttacol]

I have heard that playing a musical instrument now counts as a foreign language in some places. Don't know whether this is true or not.

[Brindee]

 

I have heard that playing a musical instrument now counts as a foreign language in some places. Don't know whether this is true or not.

:confused: I've never heard that. Doesn't mean it's not so, I just don't know how it could count as a foreign language. If that was the case, all 3 of my kids would have a lot of "foreign language" credit! Which would be great! :001_smile:

[Jane in NC]

I guess my question is, if you are just taking Spanish in High School so you can check off the requirement, does the course you use matter?

 

Besides the course title, the credits assigned (meaning you did the correct number of hours), and the grade assigned, will any college ask or test your knowledge?

 

If there is some kind of general foreign language placement test in college, should you wait to do Spanish until 11th and 12th grade for retention?

(Obviously this would be for a degree not requiring foreign language classes in college.)

 

Does it matter if it is 144 hours of BJU DVD Spanish, or SOS spanish, or Rosetta Stone, or is it worth spending the money for an online Spanish class (for example: The Potters School) or hire a tutor.

 

I have had trouble writing this because I don't want it to sound like I plan on "taking the easy way out" or "setting the bar too low". I am new to planning high school and I want a rigorous course of study for my kids, but not sure if that means in everything, and how do you choose which should get more time/attention/money towards. If it is not something that you plan on taking an AP test for, or an SAT subjuct test for, is settling for just a "good" course be okay?

 

 

 

It seems to me that the answer to your question may lie within your student's end goals.

 

Many colleges require foreign language as a requirement for a baccalaureate degree. Does a rigorous high school course assist these students with their college objectives? Does your high school student plan on a trip abroad (Gap year, missions, whatever)? Would a certain conversational level make that trip easier?

 

Remember that there is more to life than checking off a high school requirement.

 

My two cents.

Jane

[FaithManor]

In Michigan, all of the four year colleges and universities that we know of (DD applied to seven in-state), require two years of foreign language. However, most accept Latin. DD had two years of Latin and one of Spanish. She really didn't like the Spanish course we used (I came to hate it as well) so we didn't pursue another year since she already had Latin.

 

My understanding of this is that when the public schools stopped requiring Latin in high school (late 50's early 60's in our area), grammar scores on standardized tests dropped. This makes sense since 50% of the English language (at that time) was based on Latin roots and understanding Latin grammar actually helped a lot of kids have a better grasp of English grammar and learning a foreign language teaches logical thinking skills. Formal logic had been abandoned in high schools well before that.

 

Over time, as SAT and ACT scores were accumulated and compared, it was found that generally, those students who studied a modern foreign language were scoring much higher, usually, on the language portion of the tests. Colleges than began making the foreign language requirement for incoming freshmen. In our area, even the community colleges require a full year of college Spanish if the student has not already completed two years of high school foreign language. Since some of the largest majors are nursing and med tech, this makes sense as our area has a large migrant worker population and the ER's are always in need of personnel who can speak at least a little Spanish. They are okay with other modern languages on the h.s. transcript but only offer Spanish in CC.

 

Most kids will probably forget what they learned in high school, and many will resent the time spent completing the curriculum. But, I think it is one of those "hoops" that can't be escaped.

 

As for college admission's personnel claiming that homeschoolers don't do well in foreign language or lab sciences, well.....that doesn't hold any water around here. Many Michigan P.S.'s don't even teach labs anymore because they have to teach to the MEAP tests, and the foreign language classes are jokes. Most of the time, the kids don't get through the first book, usually only half, and then the second half of the first book is used in the intermediate year. Full credit is given regardless. What really gets me are the kids who take third year or advanced and are given full credit for that but only accomplish one half of the actual intermediate book. The schools are just plain deceiving the colleges. The only way they could be certain if a student was even exposed to two or three years worth of material, would be to test. Since they don't, the whole thing is kind of silly.

 

That said we still intend on putting our three remaining children through the hoop. But, we won't worry about whether or not the program has enough grammar or not. Since there isn't a single kid we know that came through traditional fl programs who can actually speak much more than "I'd like to buy some butter and some cheese" or "please and thank you", we'll focus on programs that emphasize conversation and reading fluency and give high school credit for being able to "get along" with their language of choice.

 

Faith

[Nan in Mass]

The world is small now, very small, with the technology to travel anywhere in just hours, ship things cheaply to the other side of the world, and communicate with each other. It is very, very important if we are all to get along and not destroy each other that we be able to talk to each other, and that we understand what culture is and how that changes our view of the world and how much language shapes culture (and vise versa). Even if you never remember any of your high school language, you learn some of these things.

-Nan

[Michelle in MO]

I don't know if this issue has already been addressed, but another reason for doing a foreign language is that not only do most colleges require a second language, but if your ds or dd goes on to pursue a master's or PhD, they might even need a second foreign language, in addition to the one they studied as an undergraduate.

 

So, I would definitely not skip doing a foreign language in high school, for a minimum of two years.

[Joan in GE]

This FL subject may be getting exhausting (several threads now), but I do not think this has been mentioned (forgive me if I missed it)....

 

If a child is not doing well in other subjects, it may be that they have a language gift...so then not getting to learn another language might mean that their gift is not able to be expressed...it may be the subject that allows them to shine!

 

Joan

[Nan in Mass]

A FL gift is enviable! It is one of those gifts that in the right circumstances seems almost magical. It is a highly visible gift, too, unlike some gifts. It would be a shame to miss out on developing it.

[Storm Bay]

This FL subject may be getting exhausting (several threads now), but I do not think this has been mentioned (forgive me if I missed it)....

 

If a child is not doing well in other subjects, it may be that they have a language gift...so then not getting to learn another language might mean that their gift is not able to be expressed...it may be the subject that allows them to shine!

 

Joan

 

 

Excellent point. Unless a dc fights you tooth and nail on a FL and really struggles with it, I think the benefits are many. My dd has dropped Latin this year, but she has some background. She's doing German. I've met people who are fluent in half a dozen or more languages--reading, writing & speaking. Perhaps they're better in some than others, but it's a great gift. I know a woman in town who speaks English, Finnish & Vietnamese who works per diem as a translator & homeschools (one of their mothers lives with them, so she has built in childcare, which helps.)

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

There is a difference between checking off the box and really learning the material. In any course. Sometimes life circumtances present themselves in such a way that we must shift our goals to something less than we orginally intended.

 

If your child has the required number of hours for a FL credit, then yes, just check off the box. Other posters have pointed out that many classroom schools give a full credit for little work/learning.

 

I don't the the OP was asking to completely SKIP FL totally. It sounds as if her life has gotten filled and she just doesn't have the time/energy/money/ fill in the blank to complete FL the way she intended.

 

I think kids still learn a lot when we are just checking off boxes. And, there are CC courses to make up whatever is needed in the future. Yes, you'll have to pay for those courses.. but they are still available.

 

Remeber, I'm the lady that is "doing the best I can until May." (I'm checking off boxes this semester.) :D

[Storm Bay]

There is a difference between checking off the box and really learning the material. In any course. Sometimes life circumtances present themselves in such a way that we must shift our goals to something less than we orginally intended.

 

Remeber, I'm the lady that is "doing the best I can until May." (I'm checking off boxes this semester.) :D

:iagree: with this whole post. Sometimes we merely check off boxes. Not so much because that's what I want for high school, but because my dd has very strong likes and dislikes. If she were my only child, her home education would have gone somewhat differently.

[Joan in GE]

Sometimes life circumtances present themselves in such a way that we must shift our goals to something less than we orginally intended.

 

I quite know what you mean. I had a year like that....

 

But I was posting for anyone who would read this thread having the question about the necessity of languages, with my sister in mind...

 

her daughter has a gift for imitating voices and accents but she, the daughter, is having such trouble in other subjects (in one ear and out the other). I could just imagine her in an immersion setting speaking a foreign language in no time - but they're deep in an English speaking area of the US. My sister is going to try her on Spanish - the trick being finding a program they can afford and they don't have Internet. So I was thinking of children like my niece (12 now)...

 

Joan