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Amy in TX

Aaargh! High-strung 9th grader and algebra...

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If I might just vent a little.

 

It takes *so* much patience to help someone who both wants and doesn't want help.

 

She prefers to work independently, reading the lesson and doing the exercises. As long as she understands the lesson on first reading, everything is fine. But if something isn't clear immediately, oh, boy.

 

If she doesn't understand my first remarks, she's on the edge of tears, shoving my hand away from the paper, saying, "Never mind! Whatever!" She shouts at her siblings if they ask me anything while I'm working with her. If I persevere, forcing myself to stay calm, eventually she gets it, and finishes the lesson. We are both drained.

 

It's like she thinks she should understand everything immediately, and is furious if she has to take the time to *work* on learning something, partly because she already spends a good hour or more each day on math, and her schedule is pretty full.

 

She's also terrified of being "behind," because her two closest friends did algebra in eighth grade and are doing geometry in ninth. I've reassured her many times that she isn't behind, and that this will not hurt her college or career path. But she's insisting on doing geometry this summer to get "back on track." (I was thinking of letter her use the TT geometry book.)

 

I've spoken to her about behaving respectfully with me, although I know that that is difficult when she's very frustrated. And she does try. Sometimes I see her restraining herself from pushing my hand away from the paper.

 

This isn't really an issue with any other subjects, only math. I'm wondering how to tackle the higher maths (algebra 2, trig, calc, etc.). I had planned for her to do those at community college. I wonder if this problem would go away if she had another teacher, or if it would be worse?

 

For now, just trying to keep a neutral, patient attitude...

 

Thanks for any thoughts,

Amy

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My middle dd is the SAME way.

 

I'm a Math teacher--and she just CAN NOT bring herself to ask me for help---if she can't work a problem out correctly the first time (even if she DOES NOT read the lesson first...) she will slam her book down, gripe at me then go outside (to take a walk/jog and calm herself down)...

 

My dd does much better with outside teaching--but she is stuck with me for Math--she has a hard time viewing computer screens and I'm the only Math tutor around! (She is only allowed 2 classes per semester at the CC and is taking courses I can't teach--like Spanish...)

 

I'm an online Math teacher--and I've worked with homeschoolers for over 20 years. MOST of my students have parents who are perfectly capable of teaching their high school students Math... it is just that their high school students are starting to pull away from Mom and Dad (especially in subject areas that require logical thinking!).

 

The danger the students face in working Algebra and above independently is that they are just now developing that necessary logic--and it is VERY VERY easy to over-think and 'create' a false-logic.

 

Part of the problem is a 'heart issue' (respect and such)--part of the problem is hormonal--and part of the problem is a natural part of growing independent from your parents.

 

If you can figure out how to manage your dd---please let me know!

 

Jann

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From what you've said, maybe TT would be a good idea. It has solution cd's that give the step by step answer to every problem! That way she could look at that as many times as she wants to without anybody seeing or knowing, until she feels more confident of how to get the answer. That cd won't get mad at her or make her feel stupid. She won't be so frustrated with you, and you won't be so frustrated with her.

 

Just a thought.....

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If it's any help at all, it isn't you; my daughter is the same way. And only about math, which she is extremely good at but insists that if she doesn't get something the first time I explain it, she's bad at it.

 

This past week, after years of suggesting this, I FINALLY got my husband, who is a scientist, to take over math with her. I still hear the edge of teariness, but he doesn't respond to her emotionally as I do, no matter how hard I try to remain calm. It's going MUCH better. If he hadn't at last stepped in, I would have begun looking for outside help.

 

Have you thought about a tutor? Even just for six months or one year, this might give both of you a break and some distance, and give her time to get past some of the hormonal stuff I know is part of my daughter's reaction.

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is there a possibility that Dad can take over math?

 

My dh took over math (mostly grading and explaining if needed) but it has made a difference.

 

Or...maybe it's the college text she's using...great explanations!!!

 

How about a co-op type class for math? We don't do this ourselves because the fees are so high in our area, but that would be ideal if we could afford it.

 

I would suggest having a look at EVERYTHING that has a video component.

 

hth,

Robin

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They're all really helpful to me right now. It's great to be reminded that others' dds are like this--yes, it is surely a lot to do with age and hormones.

 

And another teacher to get some distance and relieve the stress. That would be great, which is why I'm so looking forward to the day she is old enough to use the cc. I've often considered an online math class such as Jann's, but she dislikes online classes and is already doing her writing mostly online with WriteGuide.

 

I've also considered TT--the books, not so much the CDs. Since Jann and others have said TT's geometry is strong, I'll let her do geometry with that text. Like I said, she doesn't like computer classes and probably wouldn't use the CDs, but I looked at the text and really liked it. It looks *very* user friendly and easy to understand.

 

Thanks so much for responding. I feel better, lol.

 

:)

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They're all really helpful to me right now. It's great to be reminded that others' dds are like this--yes, it is surely a lot to do with age and hormones.

 

And another teacher to get some distance and relieve the stress. That would be great, which is why I'm so looking forward to the day she is old enough to use the cc. I've often considered an online math class such as Jann's, but she dislikes online classes and is already doing her writing mostly online with WriteGuide.

 

I've also considered TT--the books, not so much the CDs. Since Jann and others have said TT's geometry is strong, I'll let her do geometry with that text. Like I said, she doesn't like computer classes and probably wouldn't use the CDs, but I looked at the text and really liked it. It looks *very* user friendly and easy to understand.

 

Thanks so much for responding. I feel better, lol.

 

:)

Can you get the book and just the Solutions CD? That's the one that could help her why she missed a problem, and help her see the steps in figuring it out...

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My 8th grade son is now actually enjoying Algebra. Totally independent. Video based. Very clear, slow and steady. Mr. Firebaugh is the perfect teacher (though my son !still laughs to remember that he thought the name was "Fireball" which he felt was not an accurate description of the teacher ;)

 

The videos were produced years ago so the music and intro screens are cheesy but the learning happens.... and with no stress or drama or..... scars.

 

Best wishes

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If I might just vent a little.

 

It takes *so* much patience to help someone who both wants and doesn't want help.

 

She prefers to work independently, reading the lesson and doing the exercises. As long as she understands the lesson on first reading, everything is fine. But if something isn't clear immediately, oh, boy.

 

If she doesn't understand my first remarks, she's on the edge of tears, shoving my hand away from the paper, saying, "Never mind! Whatever!" She shouts at her siblings if they ask me anything while I'm working with her. If I persevere, forcing myself to stay calm, eventually she gets it, and finishes the lesson. We are both drained.

 

It's like she thinks she should understand everything immediately, and is furious if she has to take the time to *work* on learning something, partly because she already spends a good hour or more each day on math, and her schedule is pretty full.

 

She's also terrified of being "behind," because her two closest friends did algebra in eighth grade and are doing geometry in ninth. I've reassured her many times that she isn't behind, and that this will not hurt her college or career path. But she's insisting on doing geometry this summer to get "back on track." (I was thinking of letter her use the TT geometry book.)

 

I've spoken to her about behaving respectfully with me, although I know that that is difficult when she's very frustrated. And she does try. Sometimes I see her restraining herself from pushing my hand away from the paper.

 

This isn't really an issue with any other subjects, only math. I'm wondering how to tackle the higher maths (algebra 2, trig, calc, etc.). I had planned for her to do those at community college. I wonder if this problem would go away if she had another teacher, or if it would be worse?

 

For now, just trying to keep a neutral, patient attitude...

 

Thanks for any thoughts,

Amy

 

I got nothing for you but man oh man can I sympathize and empathize!!

SO passive aggressive, I want help but I don't want help, blah blah.

Screamfests. Delightful. :grouphug::grouphug:

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Another mom who feels your pain. We were so there last year with our oldest dd and Algebra. This year she seems to have matured a bit emotionally and we switched currics from Saxon to Life of Fred. Hopefully this is only temporary for you and her.

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Thanks for the sympathy, ladies. She is really a great girl and very much at the mercy of her hormones these days, and I have to say that she is worlds better than she used to be. Time and maturity do make such a difference.

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Wow, I hadn't realized that we could form a club! My eldest is like this and really does do most of her math on her own. Jann's point about developing good logic is important. This particular dd hated TT Algebra 1 with a passion because she thought it was too easy. My dd has developed good logic by doing Algebra 1 twice. The first time we tried a few things, but ended up with Lial's for much of it. We also did some of Gelfand's, but she didn't get all of the really long, challenging problems right away.

 

The second time she did the 1965 Dolciani. However, it was the visual as well as the description that worked.

 

What I would suggest is Life of Fred be a big part of this if she wants to learn independently. There is no computer component. That said, I had my dd who is like this do parts of two other Geometry texts with it when she did the Geometry since LoF only does 2 column proofs (but dd REBELLED at paragraph proofs in the third book we used and, sadly, those didn't happen--I do have to choose my battles with this one, and this didn't start with puberty or her teen years, although those have not helped) and because LoF allows students to merely say Algebra in the proofs instead of naming the Algebra Postulates. Dd did name Algebra postulates in her proofs with the other one.

 

I will add that in hindsight I am not completely happy with how her Geometry went, but not because of LoF. She's certainly capable of handling anything the PSAT & SAT throw at her, though. She is going to do LoF for the rest of math, but that's on her own of her own volition, and for credit she's going to do Dolciani for Algebra 2. There is no way I'm qualified to handle Calculus, so she'll either need to take it at a CC, the local ps or online. This will depend a great deal on finances.

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Same thing at my house with dd last year in 9th and the beginning of 10th..... it did get better. My dd is extremely independent, and its not good if she needs help with anything..... When looking at what I assign I dread when I know she will need me....

 

So, she did Biology with virtualhomeschoolgroup.com . All I needed to do was look at her work and experiment lab reports before she uploaded them. And I got BJU Geometry with dvds, the teacher explains so well, and it isn't quite as hard as Chalkdust, and it moves a little slower, so all she needs me for is to grade tests and glance at her homework. BJU Algebra 1 went very well last year as well.

 

I'm thankful that she really wants to do the work, she doesn't want to need me all of the time. It has been a struggle even getting her to go over things, so I gave the analogy that she does the homework, but cuts class (class is going over things with me). She is starting to get it!

 

They are so not done yet :)

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My daughter is the SAME way--and ONLY math. We made a mistake starting her too early in Algebra so it's been LONG process getting her to finish Algebra 1--we tried the Dad thing but that was even worse! We will finish using videotext, though i am not overly impressed but it's something she is willing to do--though i do most of the explaining anyways. For geometry, i will diffinelty search my options but most likely will find either a self teaching method or video/online course. After algebra, IM DONE!

It's been a good learning experience but really hope the next three don't react this way!

It's so great to know that i am not alone!!!!!!!!!!!!

pam

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They're all really helpful to me right now. It's great to be reminded that others' dds are like this--yes, it is surely a lot to do with age and hormones.

 

Oh, man, I have a dd just like this! She's only 11, but I am counting the days till we're done with Singapore 6b, and then we're going to try Lial's BCM with DVTs and Dad as the first go-to for any questions. I am so sick of doing this :banghead: trying to help her with math!!

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