Order of high school level science classes?

[cjzimmer1]

My oldest son is quite advance academically but emotionally immature so we skipped biology and headed straight into Chemistry. He is thoroughly enjoying it. My original plan was to do physics next and then come back to biology, but now I'm wondering if we should continue on with advanced chem before switching gears to a different science topic.

 

Since we have lots of time, is it better to do all of one topic before moving on or is it better to cover the basics in all 3 areas before making a second pass at the advance stuff?

 

Also does anyone know if the advanced apologia courses are enough prep to pass an AP exam? I really have no idea the difficulty of the AP exams but if it is enough prep than I would plan to go ahead and have him take the test after completing the advanced classes.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Heather in VA]

Well physics usually requires a co-requisite of Calculus. Is he that academically advanced?

 

Heather

[cjzimmer1]

He would be starting pre-calc the same time as physics (or advance chem if we went that way). Math is actually his strongest area. When I took physics in high school it was taken at the same time as pre-calc (senior year). We actually didn't even have calculus in my high school. Is this a new standard (Calculus a co-requisite with physics?)

[Heather in VA]

There wasn't such a thing as pre-calc when I was in high school. We had Analytical Geometry and Advanced trig that year. I'm sure it's the same thing just now called pre-calc. I took that my junior year. I took Calculus my senior year along side Physics. Now that you mention it though, I completely forgot that year was AP Physics. I took regular Physics the year before, so yes you are probably ok math-wise.

 

What is worrying you about Biology? I'd think he'd get a lot more interest out of Physics and advanced Chem when he's older even if he's math capable now.

 

Heather

[cjzimmer1]

I went to a pretty small private high school so advanced topics weren't even options so I didn't really know what was standard or not.

 

As far as Biology it's a matter of maturity and time. I know Apologia doesn't cover human reproductive biology but since he's the kind of kid who when he engages in a topic likes to follow rabbit trails which of course could take him to human reproductive areas. He is truly only 8 or 9 on his emotionally development and we really don't feel he is ready for that (and since we are very conservative in our lifestyle choices and groups of friends) he isn't getting exposed yet. Also I do want him to do the dissections, but with 2 very little ones running around, I'm not sure I will have the time to assist him and don't really want to let him loose with a scapel on his own. Since he his more than academically capable to handle the other sciences we just decided to pursue them and come back to biology when it was better timing for our family.

 

Plus he was actually the one who said he would rather do chemistry over biology to begin with. He loves numbers in fact is enthralled with them. He reads math textbooks for fun. So it for him chemistry and physics would just naturally be more interesting to him.

 

So I will pick one of those 2 for next year but just need to decide if it's better to do one over the other first.

[Heather in VA]

Then I think I'd keep going with Chemistry. I think Chem before Biology makes sense anyway (we are doing that) and he is loving Chemistry so I'd continue with that. Then when you finish there you can decide if you should move on to Physics or if he's ready to do some Biology. Of course there are lots of other science options if you want to continue to put Biology on the back burner.

 

I wouldn't worry about the dissections. We love them here and even my now 6 year old (who was 4 and 5 when we did our last round) was so enthralled with the dissections that she didn't run around or cause trouble at all. (a VERY rare thing indeed for my little jumping bean). She's been bugging me to get some other things to dissect.

 

But I can understand the concern about reproduction. It is a natural part of a Biology study and you'll want him emotionally ready. I have girls so they are both more mature and because of the way nature works, they have to know about that stuff earlier. (my oldest started her cycle at 11). But boys are different.

 

Heather

[FaithManor]

In most high schools, trigonometry and pre-calculus are the same course. Essentially, you need trigonometry in order to go on to calculus.

 

Usually high school physics requires algebra 2 as a pre-requisite and at least a semester of trig.

 

We did chemistry and advanced chemistry back-to-back. I highly recommend this. It helps cement the concepts.

 

You need to plan the maths and sciences at the same time.

Our schedule went like this:

9th grade - Geometry and Biology

10th grade - Algebra 2 and Chemistry

11th grade - Trigonometry/Pre-Calc and Advanced Chemistry

12th grade - Statistics and Analysis and Physics

 

Faith

 

Another option for seniors who are not strong mathematicians and will not be studying trigonometry at home, is to take advanced biology instead of any physics. Advanced biology is Anatomy and Physiology and requires at least one year of chemistry.

 

Another option is to branch into a different area of science such as astronomy which again, depending on the text, can be completed after algebra 1 and geometry (some require algebra 2 but not all) or botany. As long as you are using high school or college level texts, giving credit for astronomy and botany is legitimate. However, I would still make sure that the student covered the traditional materials of biology and at least a year of chemistry. Math based sciences teach excellent logical thinking skills, improve A.C.T. and S.A.T. scores, as well as, look good to college admission's departments.

[cjzimmer1]

In most high schools, trigonometry and pre-calculus are the same course. Essentially, you need trigonometry in order to go on to calculus.

 

Usually high school physics requires algebra 2 as a pre-requisite and at least a semester of trig.

 

We did chemistry and advanced chemistry back-to-back. I highly recommend this. It helps cement the concepts.

 

You need to plan the maths and sciences at the same time.

Our schedule went like this:

9th grade - Geometry and Biology

10th grade - Algebra 2 and Chemistry

11th grade - Trigonometry/Pre-Calc and Advanced Chemistry

12th grade - Statistics and Analysis and Physics

 

Faith

 

 

 

 

We were going to take Trig with pre-calc but my aunt is a retired math teacher. When looking at where my son is at, she recommended doing some trig first and then start pre-calc. So we will do a round of trig this fall and when we start our next science class (which will actually be next January but if I hope to find used resources I need to look now and into the summer months), he will be ready to do pre-calc and whatever the science is.

 

I'm glad to hear that the 2 chemistry classes in a row worked well. That is actually his preference but I wasn't sure if that would be a good idea or not.

 

By any chance did your student take the AP after the 2 chemistry courses? Just wondering how he/she fared if they did.

 

I really like the idea of Stats with physics. I've been trying to stall off hitting full blown calculus and still keeping my math loving kid engaged. That sounds like a perfect filler and should give me another year to figure out what to do with him. He's so young that college classes seem a daunting idea but I'm stressed about just how much more I can do with him at home before he totally surpasses me.

[cjzimmer1]

Then I think I'd keep going with Chemistry. I think Chem before Biology makes sense anyway (we are doing that) and he is loving Chemistry so I'd continue with that. Then when you finish there you can decide if you should move on to Physics or if he's ready to do some Biology. Of course there are lots of other science options if you want to continue to put Biology on the back burner.

 

I wouldn't worry about the dissections. We love them here and even my now 6 year old (who was 4 and 5 when we did our last round) was so enthralled with the dissections that she didn't run around or cause trouble at all. (a VERY rare thing indeed for my little jumping bean). She's been bugging me to get some other things to dissect.

 

But I can understand the concern about reproduction. It is a natural part of a Biology study and you'll want him emotionally ready. I have girls so they are both more mature and because of the way nature works, they have to know about that stuff earlier. (my oldest started her cycle at 11). But boys are different.

 

Heather

I'm glad to know the little ones may be engaged. If we started Biology next, I'd have one that just turned 4 and a just turned 2, it's the 2 year old who is more likely to cause problems but if I wait a couple of years and do a 2nd year of chemistry and a year of physics before biology, I should have a 6 and 4 year old which definitely sounds more doable.

 

Thanks for helping me think this through.

[FaithManor]

No, she didn't take the AP for chemistry. Her top choice school for nursing did not allow students to necessarily AP or CLEP core classes. So, in order to get out of college Chem, she first had to interview with the head of the nursing department and the head of the chemistry department. As it happens, due to not being able to afford her first or second choice school, she opted for paramedic school and will work as a paramedic for a couple years and save her salary. She loves emergency medicine so the delay is not upsetting for her. Plus, her paramedic school is through an accredited teaching hospital so her classes will transfer into nursing school and she'll get full credit for ER and OBgyn clinicals as well as the science prerequisites. Her math scores were high enough on her A.C.T. that she won't have to take any college math.

 

Faith

[Laura in CA]

I've been trying to stall off hitting full blown calculus and still keeping my math loving kid engaged. That sounds like a perfect filler and should give me another year to figure out what to do with him. He's so young that college classes seem a daunting idea but I'm stressed about just how much more I can do with him at home before he totally surpasses me.

 

I have one of these kids! Have you looked into Art of Problem Solving? It's been a life-saver for us. My son loves their textbooks, and they have books on topics such as Number Theory and Counting & Probability that aren't covered in detail, or at all, in the usual high-school math sequence. The website also has classic articles on The Calculus Trap and Why Discrete Math Is Important (which I'm pretty sure I first heard about on these boards!). Just a thought ...

 

~Laura

[8filltheheart]

My 8th grader is a math/science guy. I am going to hold off on biology until his junior or senior yr b/c he wants the math based sciences. Also, after teaching my last couple of kids, I have decided that chemistry really should be taught prior to biology these days b/c biology is NOTHING like when we took it in high school. It is very much bio-chem bases.

 

Ds took alg 2 based physics this yr. What we are currently planning for the next four yrs:

 

9th: chemistry

10th: AP chemistry

11th : AP physics

12th: either regular or AP biology (haven't gotten that far yet. He may also double up on science and take general biology simultaneously with AP chem or physics.

 

FWIW, I second the recommendation for AoPS. Also, have you considered testing him for programs like John Hopkins CTY? http://cty.jhu.edu/ts/grades78.html My ds is taking the ACT this Sat. They offer classes up through multivariable calculus. Though at this point I am planning on sticking with AoPS until we run out of courses! (They can qualify based on one specific core score. For example, my ds is going to completely bomb the reading portion b/c he reads very slowly. The only score we care about is his math score. He took a practice math section yesterday and made a 30 and CTY only requires a 24.)

[Handmaiden]

Ds took alg 2 based physics this yr.

 

Which physics textbook did he use?

[8filltheheart]

Which physics textbook did he use?

 

Kinetic books. He has absolutely LOVED this course. http://www.kineticbooks.com/products/products.html He is using the Conceptual Physics digital text/labs. I have been impressed with the course and I definitely recommend it.

[cjzimmer1]

Thanks for the recommendations of Art of Problem Solving I will check it out as I'm always on the look out for good math stuff.

 

Also, have you considered testing him for programs like John Hopkins CTY? http://cty.jhu.edu/ts/grades78.html My ds is taking the ACT this Sat. They offer classes up through multivariable calculus. Though at this point I am planning on sticking with AoPS until we run out of courses! (They can qualify based on one specific core score. For example, my ds is going to completely bomb the reading portion b/c he reads very slowly. The only score we care about is his math score. He took a practice math section yesterday and made a 30 and CTY only requires a 24.)

 

He's took the Explore with them in his 3rd and 4th grade year and the ACT for 5th and 6th. His ACT scores are actually higher than mine as a 17 year old and according to his scores they consider him college ready in all areas. I have no doubt he can handle the material but emotionally he is no where near there so we keep plugging along at home. We make too much $ to be eligible for full scholarship but make too little $ to afford the classes even at partial tuition. Dh went back to school a few years ago and until his loans are paid off we don't have much to put towards the kids. But I have examined their course schedule many times with great longing because he is more than qualified for almost everything they offer. I would LOVE to outsource but can't find anything remotely affordable (My budget is only about $100 per subject per year and the good online stuff simply costs more than that)

[Laura in CA]

Thanks for the recommendations of Art of Problem Solving I will check it out as I'm always on the look out for good math stuff.

...

I would LOVE to outsource but can't find anything remotely affordable (My budget is only about $100 per subject per year and the good online stuff simply costs more than that)

 

Check out Alcumus at Art of Problem Solving. It's FREE and will keep your son busy for quite a while. There are mini-tutorials (done by Richard Rusczyk, the founder of AoPS, who is very energetic & funny -- he definitely appeals to preteen boys ;-)

You just have to create an account. I think the subject matter is counting & probability; algebra is in the works. You have to answer some questions right before you can access more videos. My son loves it, and has learned a ton. And did I mention it's FREE? ;-)

 

~Laura

 

Oh, and hotmath is $29 a year and you can see all the Ed Burger videos (he also appeals to my boys, with his wacky sense of humor) on math topics from algebra to calculus. Another entertaining, instructive, inexpensive resource.