Teaching siblings to "get along"?

[Sue G in PA]

And by this I do not mean that they must be best friends. I would simply like my children to treat one another with kindness and respect. We have 7 children ranging in age from dd13 to ds1. I exagerrate not when I tell you that my children HATE one another and don't try to hide it. I cannot leave my 13yo dd in charge of ANY of the children except dd4 or ds1 b/c they all fight so badly that I am afraid somebody will get seriously hurt. I am at my wits end. Before anyone goes jumping to any conclusions...we DO NOT model this type of behavior for our children. We do not spand, do not use violence to get our way and do not speak to our children like they speak to one another. Are we perfect? NO! We lose our temper on occasion, but for the most part we model kindness, respect, grace, mercy, love, forgiveness, etc. We fail. And we ask forgiveness. We make mistakes and we admit them freely. What are we doing wrong? There are certain combinations of my children that DO get along better than others but even then it is for a limited amount of time. Then they are back to the same old, same old.

 

Please help me. I really cannot take it anymore. I am trying desperately to restore the peace in my home but to no avail. FWIW...dd13, ds11, and ds10 go to ps while I still homeschool ds8, ds7, dd4 and ds1. You would think that the time away would help. It doesn't. As soon as the 3 older ones get home the fighting, bickering, name calling and violence towards one another begin. We have tried time outs, punishments, grounding, taking away privileges, talking, heart-to-hearts, etc. I really am going to have a nervous breakdown if this continues.

[fairfarmhand]

IMHO, Oldest DD should not be in charge of any of the children except for the last 2. The others are too close in age to have her bossing them around.

 

Do they have plenty of space? Do they have to share stuff? We had success in labeling everything so that it "belonged" to one person or another; anyone else who had to use that item HAD to ask permission. Community property was a huge source of conflict at our house.

 

We have put our kids on mute when they could not speak kindly to one another. (meaning they could not say a word for like 30-40 minutes) The trick was to have a family meeting, write out the things that are unacceptable and lay out the consequences. (bickering, picking fights, pestering and nagging must be addressed ) Then there are no warnings, no second chances, nothing. The moment they cross the line the consequences occur. Writing things down eliminates the debates on whether they understood you correctly or not.

 

In my house it always takes 2 people to continue an argument, so both people are punished for bickering. But picking fights by pestering people gets a big punishment too.

 

Additionally, I found with my older kids, that adding additional chores was more effective than taking away privileges. When they could not watch TV, play the computer or go anywhere, they got bored quicker and then they would annoy one another out of boredom. I picked the crummiest jobs I could think of too. Cleaning toilets, cleaning out the drains, picking up rocks out of the yard (we measure this in buckets of rocks--each transgression adds a bucket of rocks) wiping baseboards, matching and folding socks, you get the idea.

 

Don't know if this helps. This is just what works for my family. Occasionally my kids will fall into their old bad habits and we have to have a refresher course, but after 3 or 4 days they come around again.

 

 

eta: they probably won't love one another. I HATED my brothers growing up but I like them fairly well now. When younger siblings are punished for picking fights and pestering, then the older ones can tolerate them better. When older siblings are punished for bullying, they are not so bad for the youngers to have them around.

Edited March 26, 2010 by fairfarmhand

[Jan in SC]

:grouphug: I'm sorry I don't have any great answers. I'm still trying to control my three boys!

 

I do have some dear friends that are the oldest two of seven kids. The oldest, a girl, got mad at the boy and pushed him into something, causing a cut that needed stitches. The mom and son (stitches recipient) walked in from the doctor and he picked up a wooden spoon and threw it at her, knocking her front tooth out! (permanent, of course!) This was par for the course!!! Anyway, they are all great friends and a wonderful extended family!

[Pippen]

My brothers and I used to fight so much that my older cousin bought us boxing gloves so he could watch the show. :tongue_smilie: All is well now between my brother that is still living and I (and no, we had nothing to do with his death). My bro lives out of state and we've had weekly phone conversations for most of our adult lives, and these days it's not uncommon for us to talk a few times a week.

 

I will say there was one summer that I was really, really desperate and nothing else I tried worked so I decided it was time to seriously think outside the box. I had one that is not at all easy to get along with, so I paid the older one 50 cents per day as an incentive to expend the extra effort. Worked like a charm--don't tell him, but it would have been worth a dollar. ;)

 

As for leaving older kids alone together in your situation, I might offer to split up whatever I'd pay for babysitting, so that one older kid is in charge of the littles only with part of the pay, and split the rest with the others for looking out for themselves. I know it sounds crazy, but I'm all for creative solutions.

[T'smom]

There is a book called Siblings Without Rivalry that I think is really, really good book. I can't think of the author right now, but it's the same people that wrote How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk.

[Melissa in Australia]

I have found that my children fight less now I am homeschooling them then when they were at school. Another thing I have found is that each child needs personal space. their own room is terrific, but you would need a huge house for that. I have found that most fights are when one child invades the personal space of another. this might not be their belongings, but even their person, like coming too close to them etc. Have you ever observed animals? like a pen of chooks? or a litter of pups? They will fight if they don't have enough room to move away from each other.

My children still a little, but no where as much as they did when they were younger. now they are usually united and use their energy to try and debate with me. ( why oh why did I teach them logic?) they will hands down. I am guilty of every fallacy in the book.

[JVA]

IMHO, Oldest DD should not be in charge of any of the children except for the last 2. The others are too close in age to have her bossing them around.

 

Do they have plenty of space? Do they have to share stuff? We had success in labeling everything so that it "belonged" to one person or another; anyone else who had to use that item HAD to ask permission. Community property was a huge source of conflict at our house.

 

We have put our kids on mute when they could not speak kindly to one another. (meaning they could not say a word for like 30-40 minutes) The trick was to have a family meeting, write out the things that are unacceptable and lay out the consequences. (bickering, picking fights, pestering and nagging must be addressed ) Then there are no warnings, no second chances, nothing. The moment they cross the line the consequences occur. Writing things down eliminates the debates on whether they understood you correctly or not.

 

In my house it always takes 2 people to continue an argument, so both people are punished for bickering. But picking fights by pestering people gets a big punishment too.

 

Additionally, I found with my older kids, that adding additional chores was more effective than taking away privileges. When they could not watch TV, play the computer or go anywhere, they got bored quicker and then they would annoy one another out of boredom. I picked the crummiest jobs I could think of too. Cleaning toilets, cleaning out the drains, picking up rocks out of the yard (we measure this in buckets of rocks--each transgression adds a bucket of rocks) wiping baseboards, matching and folding socks, you get the idea.

 

Don't know if this helps. This is just what works for my family. Occasionally my kids will fall into their old bad habits and we have to have a refresher course, but after 3 or 4 days they come around again.

 

 

eta: they probably won't love one another. I HATED my brothers growing up but I like them fairly well now. When younger siblings are punished for picking fights and pestering, then the older ones can tolerate them better. When older siblings are punished for bullying, they are not so bad for the youngers to have them around.

 

:iagree: Great ideas! We used some of these to help alleviate the bickering and tension. A place for everything, labeling toys/possesions and pre-arranged consequences were the most crucial things for us. (This started me to purge unused and broken toys regularly) I found the "If-Then" chart from Doorposts, Inc. that had the consequences (determined by Mom and Dad) posted. It took the emotion out of the issue for ME- it was more fair- and they knew ahead that if they CHOSE to do the wrong thing their punishment/consequence was already re-arranged! It REALLY helped us.

http://www.doorposts.com/details.aspx?id=14

 

There also needed to be time for them to vent to us individually about a relationship problem with a particular sibling. Family meetings help with communication. It was really a matter of consistency and a united front from both parents that made it improve in the long run. Hope this is helpful. It's not pleasant living in a war zone.

[Aubrey]

My oldest is only 9, so I hesitate to offer advice on things like this, but it's a subject that I'm passionate about finding an answer to. When dh & I married, I found that our arguments in the first 6 mos were just like my arguments w/ my sibs growing up, & the horror of the fact that I was stuck w/ this man for LIFE was a slap in the face. I'm laughing as I write this, but it was truly an eye-opening experience at the time.

 

I decided then that if I could have figured out how to get along w/ my sibs, I could get along w/ anybody, & it would have made the first part of my marriage that much easier. (Who couldn't use help there, lol!)

 

So here's my philosophy, fwiw--one of the reasons my sibs & I fought was a sort of vying for mom & dad's attention, respect, affection. Nothing major, but dh & I decided that we'd try to point our dc toward ea other w/ their loyalty w/ the idea that loyalty to parents comes naturally & doesn't need encouraging or fostering.

 

Sibs are the best gift God has ever given you, we tell them, & they will be there for you & w/ you long after we're gone. It's your job to take care of ea other, love ea other, etc. This has been part of their instruction forever.

 

To that end: tattling--you have to be willing to take the offender's punishment in order to tattle. If they're in the street about to be run over? You'd gladly take any punishment, because your goal is genuinely to save them. If they're touching something Mom told them not to touch? *You* get the timeout (or whatever). You're allowed to remind them of the rules in a kind way so they won't get in trouble, though. The whole idea here is to form an alliance instead of a competition.

 

We also don't allow the word "mine" when they're very little--the first couple of yrs or so. Nothing belongs to us; everything we have is God's, but He's chosen to share it w/ us. We've had humorous results when 2yo was saying MY PANTIES & we didn't think about how that would come out before correcting her. :lol:

 

But we've never had to tell any of them to share anything. Even when 2yo finds a chocolate stash & raids it, she brings her bounty to her sibs to share equally. When 1yo lost his balloon, 2yo offered him hers. The bigs are just as generous. They have their faults, but sharing is not one of them. Sometimes it's hard for us to watch & it reveals to *us* our own stingy hearts.

 

When they do bicker, one of their consequences is to be grounded fr ea other. I wouldn't recommend this before a firm relationship is established, but at that point, it's the worst thing on earth, lol. They've never complained about loneliness or lack of friends, & we don't see a lot of people.

 

We filter a lot of what they watch & don't allow too much screen time. No video games, no computer, no TV, & only select videos one-two times/week (at most, unless someone's sick). We rarely let them see things where people act unkindly to one another, & then only w/ us there to help them process, & most importantly, they don't watch these things over. and. over.

 

We don't allow the word "hate" although we get corrected (by them) occasionally, lol. We don't try to force them to *feel* certain ways, but talk through legitimate feelings. We try to give them language for what they're feeling & explain where those feelings come from & how they form. We tell them about times when we've felt that way, & we pray w/ them & give them time to pray on their own.

 

We treat the bad feelings--the selfishness & unjust anger & things like that--like part of a war that is being waged for our hearts & choosing to give those to the Lord, remembering His sacrifice, & who we really battle against--not ea other!

 

Esp as they get older, I'm seeing more & more that our relationship w/ the oldest dictates the relationship that all the sibs have w/ ea other. If he feels bullied & not listened to, he vents his frustrations by passing the "punches" on to the youngers, who in turn pass it to whoever's smaller, until it ends w/ the smallest suffering meltdown on the kitchen floor.

 

Otoh, if I take time to talk to ds, listen to him, praise & encourage, & build that relationship, he's so much more patient w/ the others, & they all want to copy him. Honestly...I suspect that the key to everything is w/ the oldest. Somehow, they govern so much of the energy in the family dynamics--the kid end of things--if you can win that heart, the rest aren't in the bag by any means, but maybe you've won half the battle?

 

I say this from what I've seen of friends as well as my own family, but for full disclosure, my 6yo is the most sincerely compliant child I've ever met, & the other two are mostly too small to count.

 

I'll tell you--I'm beginning to think "punishments" are way overrated. If you've got your kid's heart, you'll have good & bad days, but if you don't...I think the good days will be awfully few & far between. No amt of punishment wins a heart. And for a heart that's already yours, already (mostly) wants to do right? Punishment is rarely necessary, even if they do still mess up. (You know, act like kids!) ;)

 

Please don't stone me. I've wanted kids my whole life to experiment w/ some of these ideas, & now that I have them, I've been scared to pieces to tell anybody what I think about raising them, for fear they'd think I was trying to say I'm better than they are. I do a really bad job as a parent, but I like to think about parenting issues. Someday? Maybe I'll take my own advice? :lol:

[FriedClams]

My kids are still young - 7 and 8 - but here's what's worked/is working here.

 

1. Family is priority. If you can't get along at home - we don't export it. That means NO outside activities when there's fighting at home. NOTHING. Also - friends are NOT more important than family, so when we act that way (like "go away I am spending time with my oh-so-special-not-a-family-member-friend" - then the friend has to go home and playdates are over for a while. A long while.

 

2. Catch them doing it right. Right now we have a "BUSTED" board where I glue up pics of the kids being kind and working as a team. They love it. They work together to get "busted".

 

3. Encourage service to others. Helping with chores without being as, doing a project together, etc. Be ugly - great - work together.

 

I HATED the Siblings without Rivalry book but I have enjoyed Creative Correction and John Rosemond books.

[KC in KS]

But the Magic Tree House Musical has this as a major theme. It's not available in video form, but we listen to the CD of the music a LOT, and my DD (age 5) has made the connection between Jack and Annie and her and her brother. "What Would I Do Without You (we're a team) is the song that sums it up.

 

(BTW, we also used one of the songs "Remember and Imagine" to comfort her through the death of a pet. Turns out to be a very useful little CD!)

[Chris in VA]

Honestly, Sweetie, with that much raw emotion in the house, I would go into family therapy.

:grouphug:

[Laughing Lionette]

Sending a :grouphug: and gentle thoughts your way and in :iagree:with Chris

 

(Lisa, here. I didn't realize this wasn't my own log-in).

[T'smom]

Sorry this is off-topic, but I gotta ask- SWM, why did you HATE the Siblings Without Rivalry book?

[Sue G in PA]

Thanks everyone. There is a lot of "raw" emotion in this house, as Chris said. Family therapy is probably where we are headed since it seems I have made a complete mess of us all.

[Chris in VA]

Thanks everyone. There is a lot of "raw" emotion in this house, as Chris said. Family therapy is probably where we are headed since it seems I have made a complete mess of us all.

 

No, Dear.

You do not get to take all the blame, sorry. :grouphug:

Family systems therapy is probably the best bet.

You know I'm coming at this from a place of trying to heal, myself. Please be gentle with yourself.

 

Sometimes things reach a crisis state and feel hopeless--it's then, I've found, that real change can happen. You will find yourself thankful for the very experiences that led you there, even if they (forgive the word) suck, :D

because they provide the impetus for better things.

 

Sending hugs and love.

[Caribbean Queen]

Some may take the position that siblings hating each other is normal and the most you can do is try get them grown up safely, despite of each other.

 

But, not every child hates their siblings. I loved mine. My children love each other. Don't we all know children who love their siblings? Sibling hatred is not a "must."

 

Jesus said the second greatest commandment is "Love your neighbor as you love yourself." I interpret that to mean children should love their siblings as much as they love themselves.

 

Consider what Jesus said in his sermon on the mount:

 

Ye have heard that it was said by those of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgement:

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgement: and whosoever shall say to his brother Raca shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

So it seems to me that God cares very much about us loving one another.

 

The Bible also talks of children obeying their parents.

 

Okay, so, what do you do about this?

 

Someone mentioned John Rosemond books. I just read one called Parenting by the Book. The author is a psychologist, but doesn't really believe in psychology. He is not into behavior modification, time outs, increasing self esteem, nor finding psychological reasons for misbehavior.

 

He would believe you when you say you don't model the bad behavior your children show. He would be likely to say that your children misbehave because they are human beings Toddlers don't have to be taught to hit, bite, and behave badly. They must be compelled to behave properly. If they aren't they will continue to behave badly. It's human nature.

 

He thinks it is "pseudointellectual nonsense" to say that a boy is being physically hurtful to his brother becasue he wants to tell his parents that he is angry at them for having another child and is fearing rejection and if the parents suppress his cruel behavior his psychological problems will build up and explode in even worse ways.

 

He argues that parents can and should punish. One of the harshest punishments he suggests is taking away all the child's stuff. He doesn't believe that the Bible says you must literally hit your child with a stick for misbehavior, so if you don't spank, you can still find his books useful.It isn't a How-to-Spank-With-a Stick book.

 

He talks about being consistant in parenting by quoting Jesus saying "Let your yes be yes and your no be no."

 

I know you said you tried punishments, but perhaps you could find more effective punishments and be more consistant. Perhaps you have had a philosophical opposition to punishing your children (what Rosemond calls nonsense), or you were overwhelmed, or you just didn't know how to effectively and consistantly punish. Even when my children wanted to treat each other badly they would think twice because they know for sure they would get in big trouble with me - ya know?

 

He also talks about how to be a strong leader for your children. For instance, you should say something like, "Stay close to me while we are in this store." Instead of sounding wimpy like, "Please don't make me chase you around the store, okay?"

 

What does this have to do with loving each other? I believe well disciplined children are happier and they are easier to live with. The book touches on that. Undisciplined children are unhappy and it is hard to love a sibling who physically hurts you. I think taking charge of your home is the first step towards your children loving each other.

 

I used my entire Rest Time to type this so I hope something in it is helpful.

[duckens]

As for leaving older kids alone together in your situation, I might offer to split up whatever I'd pay for babysitting, so that one older kid is in charge of the littles only with part of the pay, and split the rest with the others for looking out for themselves. I know it sounds crazy, but I'm all for creative solutions.

 

My mom did this for me and my siblings (3 kids total in our home) by the time that we reached a certain age. Everyone was responsible for "babysitting" themselves. If ANYONE fought, one's babysitting fee was forfeit; it didn't matter who started it. Oh, and the third child was always willing to tattle if the other two had fought. A perfect system. :lol:

 

My siblings and I are NOT close as adults. My sister continues to be petty and mean-spirited in a political manner to those who are different and less fortunate than she is. My brother has grown to be a wonder man/husband/father, but because of all of the physical abuse he put me through as a kid (black eyes, broken teeth) which my parents NEVER addressed, I'm not motivated to be best buddies with him as an adult. Would you want to be best friends with your childhood bully?

[Delighted3]

1. Family is priority. If you can't get along at home - we don't export it.

 

I love how you said this and it is so true.

Joy

[babysparkler]

I just started reading Say Goodbye to Whining, Complaining, and Bad Attitudes...... It teaches you to deal with the "honor & respect" issues within the family that are causing the behaviors. I haven't gotten far, but it looks like exactly what I've needed (and may be right for you too).