S/O: Who is finishing their CC year and....

[Another Lynn]

glad they aren't returning? :001_huh: :leaving:

 

I was scared to open the roll call thread.... but was surprised when I did how many responses I agreed with.... I found myself nodding when I read comments like these....

 

I love our group, our ladies, the kids, etc.

 

I also tire of the occasional attitude of "THIS is the best/only way to do classical homeschooling"

 

I also tire of the randomness of some of the memory work.

 

It does become an expensive source of extra information.

 

It does become an expensive playdate.

 

I also am not interested in the Challenge levels - which is where some of my oldest ds's friends are going next year (skipping their last year of Master's Class because they've outgrown Foundations).

 

I am SO excited to plan next year without this albatross around my neck!

 

After thought.... Hope I'm not offending anyone who is excited about doing CC next year.... I'm just weary (after 3 years) of trying to compromise and make it work when it is so contrary to my own ideas about how to homeschool. (If you hear distant shouting Monday afternoon, it might be me :D)

[LisainVirginia]

Just curious...when you say it doesn't match how you think you should homeschool, can you elaborate? I ask b/c this is our first year of homeschooling and of CC and I've debated about going back next year. The kids seem to really like it, though, which just confuses me more. And, I can't seem to quite articulate what I don't like about it (other than some nit-picky things that I think are probably more about the area of the country we are living it at the moment than CC itself.)

Thanks!

[Michelle My Bell]

I'm just weary (after 3 years) of trying to compromise and make it work when it is so contrary to my own ideas about how to homeschool.

 

This is exactly why I never signed up. So many in my neck of the woods are all over this program, but it went against everything I believe about the education of my children, and I resisted. There have been a few times I have slightly considered looking more into it, but then all I have to do is look at the program and I am done.

 

Michelle

Edited March 25, 2010 by Michelle My Bell

[Another Lynn]

Just curious...when you say it doesn't match how you think you should homeschool, can you elaborate? I ask b/c this is our first year of homeschooling and of CC and I've debated about going back next year. The kids seem to really like it, though, which just confuses me more. And, I can't seem to quite articulate what I don't like about it (other than some nit-picky things that I think are probably more about the area of the country we are living it at the moment than CC itself.)

Thanks!

 

I guess my version of classical leans a little more CM-ish. While I acknowledge the "grammar stage" to be a great time to memorize things, I think we do a disservice to our children if we don't also acknowledge that they are born persons (one of CM's points) and that they are capable of making great connections on their own. I would much rather my dc remember things because they loved learning about them, reading real, living books about them instead of chanting, drilling, singing the facts without any relevance or context. So, I would rather sit on the couch with a stack of living books, snuggle, read, narrate, find on a map, draw pictures, re-enact with playmobil, send kids outside to reenact again, etc. Giving up a day for CC just made it harder to do this and still get "skill" subjects accomplished.

 

What part do your kids like? Two of mine love their friends, one of mine would just as soon stay home - but none of them beg for CC "work" like they beg for the next chapter of our read alouds. I will say they do like the history songs. But, when I hear them sing the skip counting to do multiplication, I wish they had never learned the math songs. It will take a bit of work to get math facts out of the singing part of their brain and over to the fast recall part of their brain. There are other minor things (as you also said), but, I digress....

 

If there's anything else I can answer to help you figure out if it's a good fit for you I'm happy to help.

[lauracolumbus]

I didn't see the early thread and will visit it in a moment, but I completely vacillate between staying with or leaving CC. This was our first full year. We visited last year and stayed for the last 5 weeks. My kids begged for it-more than any of their other social activities. They love the material and the competitive nature of learning, which is really hard to duplicate on our own or w/another group.

 

I don't like the getting up early on Monday mornings, the cost, the drive, the uncomfortable fit w/the rest of our studies (CC is not as classical as they promote), and most importantly losing an entire day to CC. There are other minor issues, but I really don't think we'll return. I've tried to add on work at the end of the CC day, but we're all fried by that point. It's a hard decision b/c I'm blown away by what my 6 year old has learned in such a short period. I've met some wonderful, classical homeschooling moms, but they don't live nearby.

 

Laura

[i.love.lucy]

Why do I open threads like this when the check is already in the mail?:glare:

 

I think I'm confused by Lynn, why you'd say that if you do CC you can't have the snuggle time with great books?:confused: I sure hope that's not the case cuz I sure plan to. I am craving the accountability and community and I hope I find it there...without sacrificing snuggle time!!

[Sara in WA]

I am craving the accountability and community and I hope I find it there...without sacrificing snuggle time!!

 

Amy - You can make the rest of your week what you want. That's the great thing about CC. Some people practice their memory work a ton and use it as their spine for the rest of their subjects. Other people just listen to the memory work CD as they drive here and there. It's all up to you. You just have to figure out what will work for your family and do it and not worry about what other people are or are not doing.

 

We've done CC for the last 2 years and it's been great. My oldest daughter has taken it upon herself to go for Memory Master and I don't expect as much from my 6yo. I have times when I push too hard on the memory work and realize that I'm missing the lovely read alouds. So we have to find a new balance in our week. I probably wouldn't pay for my 4yo to be in it. It would be too much $ for that little guy.

 

Next year we're not doing CC as our two oldest will be attending a lovely classical Christian school.

[monalisa]

Yes!!!! I could have written some of your post! We are almost done, and I cannot wait. My dd will be sad, and wants to do it next year, but I've got her enrolled in a twice a month enrichment-only program (that also includes field trips) that will be a much better for for our family I think. This almost sucked the life out of HS for me this first year. I felt guilty for not spending more time on it but it didn't line up well enough with what I wanted to do in my overall curriculum. Taking a whole day every week was TOOO MUCH; I too would try to do a little work after we got home but we were worn out. Then I felt like I was behind all week long, and found it hard to take another day for field trips, library etc. Yes, its only 24 weeks, but that is most of the year in my book. I too am looking forward to planning my year without planning around the CC material and day; also I want to pick my own memory work, and just got a copy of Living Memory for that purpose which I'm really excited about.

 

I know a lot of people who love it, but its not a fit for our family.

[HerdingCats]

Fwiw, I was in the OP shoes a few years ago after our first time doing CC. We didn't register the following year. Long story short, I ended up getting in it again this past year and the kids loved it. *I* don't love CC, but the kids do. They learned so much this year, too. The bottom line for me is that even though there are things about it that aren't my ideal, the accountability and group dynamic aren't things I can easily reproduce. My reluctant writers were doing papers every week, researching, excited about presentations each week, and memorizing reams of material. My oldest is going into Challenge B next fall. There are things I really don't like about the Challenge curriculum. I don't like the YE perspective, IEW isn't my favorite, I would rather have more freedom to do our own thing. My dd loves it, though. This program has been so motivating for all of my kids, I have to go back. For those of you sinking inside reading this thread because the check is in the mail, don't lose heart. The memory work doesn't have to take over your school. I reserve the right to tweak or opt out of the things I don't like. I've decided to make it work for us for now.

[laughing lioness]

Quite 2 yrs ago. Homeschooling with a well worn copy of Living Memory in hand.

[Hedgehogs4]

Just curious...when you say it doesn't match how you think you should homeschool, can you elaborate? I ask b/c this is our first year of homeschooling and of CC and I've debated about going back next year. The kids seem to really like it, though, which just confuses me more. And, I can't seem to quite articulate what I don't like about it (other than some nit-picky things that I think are probably more about the area of the country we are living it at the moment than CC itself.)

Thanks!

 

sure, the kids do like it. my kids liked it a lot and were bummed not to be going back, but it was because of the social aspect and not because of the memory work.

 

What we have gained from following the WTM and doing SOTW 1 and other things has so far surpassed what we did in CC. i am much more CM in the feel of my hsing, though i follow many of the suggestions of the wtm. i love the blend, the easy pace, the ability to stretch and reach for the best that is out there, all the while doing it in our own way. CC's attitude is "our way or the highway." i understand why--they are trying to establish a uniform system that is nationwide and transferable.

 

My feeling is this: every organization reflects the leadership thereof. every time i heard people from the leadership speak about CC, i felt stressed. i always had the impression that it is a push, push, push group of people, and they do not reflect the attitude that i try to promote in my household. I do have high standards for my children's education, and i expect them to rise to them, but the way i go about it is so different, it doesn't feel stressful to us. i felt like leigh bortins is superwoman--getting her doctorate, writing books, making money by establishing a nationwide company (CC is NOT non-profit), all the while educating her family. it's not me.

 

another point that a friend of mine made that hit home was this: anytime i pay someone to do what i could do myself to educate my kids, it is not homeschooling. hmph. well, i could conceivably do everything that cc does in the group setting at home without ever exchanging a dollar except for the books. point taken...basically i was paying for the social experience, and i still had to do all the work--even pack lunch which was my least favorite part of the whole deal.

 

i enjoyed aspects of CC while i was there, primarily being part of a community. however, i found that it exhausted me, and i could not keep the pace. tuesdays (our meeting days) were a wash and missing an entire day of school of our own was too much.

 

i am not knocking CC. well, maybe i am, but i'm not knocking it if it works for you. i have two very close friends who have remained part of the community, plan to do challenge, etc. for them, CC has been a lifesaver. for me in the beginning, it helped to give me structure. it showed me what i did and didn't want, what i could and couldn't do, and most importantly what i value most in our homeschooling. therefore, it served its purpose for me, but i have NO need for it anymore...

 

fwiw, i don't bash cc to my friends who are still in it. they love it and i'm happy for them, and they understand why i dropped it.

[Another Lynn]

Why do I open threads like this when the check is already in the mail?:glare:

 

I think I'm confused by Lynn, why you'd say that if you do CC you can't have the snuggle time with great books?:confused: I sure hope that's not the case cuz I sure plan to. I am craving the accountability and community and I hope I find it there...without sacrificing snuggle time!!

 

Amy,

I almost didn't start the thread because I didn't want it to be a discouragement to others who are excited about getting into CC. Of course you can snuggle and read during the week. My point is that the approach to learning at CC is opposite that. You are right - you can do both approaches. Dh and I often discuss coming at things from more than one approach. But for *us* it didn't work the way I wanted it to. We lost one day a week to CC. None of us wanted to kill ourselves doing school on Friday - (just our preference) - that meant we had basically 3.5 days to do school (because what we did at CC didn't really count in my "school" plans for the year - it was just extra, add-on memory work). 3.5 days was too few to stagger subjects the way we might with 5 days and I have 3 school age children plus a 4yo and a toddler. It just didn't allow *me* the time to do the rest of the week the way we wanted. (And I was going to be paying for 4 children next year.... making it even more expensive as an "add-on" - I'd rather spend that money on music lessons than memory work).

 

The other problem for me was philosophic. I just saw no point to memorizing that volume of material out of context.

 

I say all this to try to explain my point of view more clearly, not to cause you doubts. Your kids are at great ages for CC. So I'll tell you some of the reasons we stayed in for three years.... We loved our friends there. Still, many of our best friends are there. Our group has been the "body of Christ" to us in many ways. I have not seen in-fighting there ever and problems have always (to my knowledge) been resolved Biblically. I liked that the kids had an opportunity to give presentations. I liked that science and art projects (the messy stuff that required supplies I never have on hand, LOL) were planned and done for me. I liked that I knew each week what was going to be taught. (I've seen co-ops that were run so poorly in comparison).

 

I hope CC is a great fit for you and you have a great year!

[LisainVirginia]

 

What part do your kids like? Two of mine love their friends, one of mine would just as soon stay home - but none of them beg for CC "work" like they beg for the next chapter of our read alouds. I will say they do like the history songs. But, when I hear them sing the skip counting to do multiplication, I wish they had never learned the math songs. It will take a bit of work to get math facts out of the singing part of their brain and over to the fast recall part of their brain. There are other minor things (as you also said), but, I digress....

QUOTE]

 

My kids like their friends and my oldest (DS8 who was in classical Christian school for two years) likes the competition. That's probably the biggest reason for us to stay - it's something that I can't create at home and something that he seems to "need."

 

I'm so glad to hear you say that about the skip counting! I thought it was great until I tried to teach DS multiplication facts. It doesn't translate at all and some of the moms at my CC doing the same math program are just skipping the facts (flashcards, timed worksheets from Saxon) and saying that knowing the skip counting songs means knowing your multiplication facts. I'm just now realizing that we need to start from scratch on the multiplicaton facts - the skip counting didn't get us ahead at all.

 

Thanks for all of the great dialogue and I'm glad this thread didn't turn snarky!

[angela in ohio]

We are leaving for probably the opposite direction as many. It just isn't rigorous enough for us, especially at the Challenge level. It is great for those who are new to classical or who just want a bit of classical, but we have been at this (classical education) a long time and found ourselves "past" CC. I think Challenge is a great thing for those moms whose other alternative is giving their dc school work to do totally independently. At least the students are getting discussion, teaching, and interaction in Challenge.

 

I started it here, I stayed with it to get it going, and I tried to share my passion for classical through it. As my dc get older, though, I have to make them my priority. (There are other reasons for us to leave, including personality issues on campus :glare: and such, but partly it is because of Challenge.) I will still try to come alongside other homeschoolers, but in a way in which I have more control. We are going to do a few smaller specific co-op and tutorial classes with carefully chosen homeschool friends next year instead.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Post deleted.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Oak Knoll Mom
see Heather in VA's post http://welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1589814&postcount=39

[angela in ohio]

Deleted at PP's request.

Edited March 28, 2010 by angela in ohio

[Woodland_Mom]

"I'm so glad to hear you say that about the skip counting! I thought it was great until I tried to teach DS multiplication facts. It doesn't translate at all and some of the moms at my CC doing the same math program are just skipping the facts (flashcards, timed worksheets from Saxon) and saying that knowing the skip counting songs means knowing your multiplication facts. I'm just now realizing that we need to start from scratch on the multiplication facts - the skip counting didn't get us ahead at all."

 

I've had the opposite experience with skip counting! My son was able to make more sense of how to multiply when I related a multiplication fact back to skip counting. I allowed my son to skip count ONLY when I introduced a particular set of multiplication facts. We then took time to drill using flash cards every day and now he has mastered his facts. The skip counting knowledge that my ds had under his belt enabled him to learn the multiplication facts more quickly.

 

We're just getting ready to finish our 3rd year of CC and plan to continue next year. Whoo!! Hoo! Many homeschoolers become weary of homeschooling by springtime and are ready for a change of scenery--no mater what type of homeschool program your involved in!

 

True, CC is fast paced on the day you meet. The good part about this is that the time spent at CC is used wisely! I never feel like we're wasting time when we're there. :) At home, we take the pace MUCH more slowly. We read aloud every day. We play outside together. We work on extended history/science projects.

 

Classical Conversations can be done at your own pace, in any way you want. That's part of the beauty of the program! CC is certainly not meant to take away from time lingering in a subject, soaking up details and truly enjoying the material you're studying. We spend about 15 minutes a day doing memory work. Sometimes we focus on one or two particular subjects, such as the timeline cards or geography. Other times we review all of the subjects from several weeks. After our 15 minute "review period", we have the rest of the day to do our "regular school stuff".

 

I chose not to enroll in a regular co-op, because I can teach many those things at home. For us, it is the co-op classes that get in the way of our regular schooling! I have too many things planned to take time to do co-op assignments/homework with my kids. Granted, I can do Foundations at home but the CC program provides much needed accountability and motivation! I KNOW that I wouldn't spend 15 minutes a day on memory work if we weren't part of CC.

 

This year CC children are learning:

 

· Exodus 20: 1 - 17 (Ten Commandments)

· Tons of map work

· 160 timeline events (using Veritas Press history cards)

· The 5 Latin declension endings

· List of prepositions and being verbs

· Biology facts and earth science facts

· History songs

· And much more!

 

 

My two ds will not master all of this material, but they've learned SO much and they use it! We all love discovering connections with things we study at home and things they've learned/memorized from Classical Conversations. Those Aha! moments are priceless!

 

CC provides our family with much more than friendships and social opportunities! In addition to the accountability and motivation to do memory work, other reasons I participate in CC are:

 

· Presentations - we practice at home and put effort into this! My kids enjoy giving the presentations each week and have gained some terrific skills through consistent practice.

 

· Science experiments - We do plenty of experiments at home, but many of the CC experiments require special supplies that take more effort to get. This year children dissected crayfish and owl pellets!

 

· Art - big favorite! 6 weeks of drawing lessons (our tutor was awesome!) and 6 weeks of projects from "Discovering Great Artists"

 

· Music Appreciation - we have not yet begun formal music lessons. The tin whistle has been a fun introduction to music for my boys. Do you remember playing the recorder in elementary school? I have sweet memories of this! Our campus performs a very nice Christmas program, complete with carols accompanied by tin whistles! There is also 6 weeks of music appreciation--something I often skip at home.

 

· Memory work is done using fun learning methods -- chants, singing, games, motions, competitions, etc. Some of this is hard to duplicate at home.

 

· Recess / Lunch - the kids love packing their lunch & backpack and having an hour of free time with some of their closest friends.

 

· Field trips - our campus organizes several each semester. Big bonus for us!!

 

 

Too much of something can just be, well . . . too much. I can certainly understand how some people get tired of CC. Classical Conversations is not for everyone. But for those seeking some of the things I listed above, it can be a great compliment to your homeschool. Classical Conversations is one interpretation of many on how to provide a classical education. CC exists to help equip parents provide an excellent education through a Christian worldview. I'm thankful for the support and encouragement I've received by being involved in their programs.

 

Blessings,

Edited March 25, 2010 by Pylegang

[meet me in paris]

 

 

I'm so glad to hear you say that about the skip counting! I thought it was great until I tried to teach DS multiplication facts. It doesn't translate at all and some of the moms at my CC doing the same math program are just skipping the facts (flashcards, timed worksheets from Saxon) and saying that knowing the skip counting songs means knowing your multiplication facts. I'm just now realizing that we need to start from scratch on the multiplicaton facts - the skip counting didn't get us ahead at all.

 

Thanks for all of the great dialogue and I'm glad this thread didn't turn snarky!

I'm not typically a CC defender since we were mid-year quitters (I couldn't make myself go back in January after that blissful break in December!). Our reasons for leaving were more philosophical and I had a very negative relationship w/dd8's tutor... it was just not a good fit for us.

 

That said, they DO learn the skip counting songs with the memory work, but in 3rd grade and up, the tutors drill the multiplication *facts* in class, not skip counting. At least that's the way it's supposed to be, and the way it was done in our community. So the skip counting gives them a framework, but the drilling should be 3x1 is 3, 3x2 is 6, etc., so that is what cements in their heads. Not a perfect system, but my daughter, who is dyslexic and cannot remember math facts if you put a gun to her head, can at least skip count now without counting on her fingers. :tongue_smilie:

 

It's been fun for me to see their connections when we come across a topic or a person in a book that they had memory work about! That's the best part... and why I'm continuing to add CC memory CD's to our car rides. It's just nice not to have the pressure of the weekly meeting. Some kids thrive on the competition of it - mine did not.

[Hedgehogs4]

post deleted.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Hedgehogs4
see Heather in VA's post.

[Tess in the Burbs]

I am glad you posted this! I have looked into this before but it just didn't feel right. A friend is seriously considering it for next year so I emailed and asked questions and the director actually talked me out of it without realizing it ;-)

 

I could see me hating it early on but the kids loving the social aspect. I have decided not to do it b/c I don't want to give up what I have for that extra you know? So I feel like you are writing all the things I would have written if we did it, LOL!

 

I am glad others like it. I am just happy I realized from others we wouldn't like it!

[Scuff]

I would much rather my dc remember things because they loved learning about them, reading real, living books about them instead of chanting, drilling, singing the facts without any relevance or context. So, I would rather sit on the couch with a stack of living books, snuggle, read, narrate, find on a map, draw pictures, re-enact with playmobil, send kids outside to reenact again, etc.

 

This is why I decided not to do it. (well, cost aside) I like something a bit more organic. Exposure to lots of things, even if it's not all remembered. And learning in context. That part about just building pegs without understanding until later bugged me. A freind goes to CC and was very honest about how it works. It fits her perfectly and she loves it. It just didn't fit what I wanted.

 

Is there another co-op in your area? We're joining one next year for the social reasons. It's a bit of a better fit and a lot cheaper.

[angela in ohio]

We'll miss the presentations--my boys have grown a lot through those experiences--but I'm hopeful that we'll find another outlet for that.

 

We have had a few different programs locally over the years that covered this. For a few years when my dc were younger, a mom organized a group to meet at the local zoo in a different area each month. The dc would give a speech about an animal of that group (cats, primates, reptiles, birds, etc.) The littlest ones (my ds was about 2 or 3 at the time) just got up and said their name and what their animal was and maybe a fact (or mom would prompt with rehearsed questions.) The older ones had pictures and did a full speech. Another mom organized a one-year geography speech club a few years ago. It didn't work out well in the end, but the concept was great: each month the topic was a different country or region and dc gave a talk about an aspect of that country. I have long wanted to do a group where we do "book talks": a child introduces a book they enjoy and then leaves a cliffhanger, so that other children will want to read it.

 

If you start something locally, you will probably find other homeschoolers who aren't looking for a full co-op, but just that experience of speaking "in front of the class." You could even do a group with different types of speaking each month: book report, demonstration, story, poem memorized, etc.

[Heather in VA]

We are leaving for probably the opposite direction as many. It just isn't rigorous enough for us, especially at the Challenge level.

 

This was very true for us. We were part of a group last year primarily because I was hoping Challenge would be something for my oldest to have interaction with other students in the jr. high and high school years. It was not nearly rigorous enough. I really don't see it as Classical either but labels are less important to me if something works for us. But when I realized I would have to supplement every class plus add others, it became clear that Challenge wasn't going to be what we needed.

 

Heather

[Another Lynn]

I want to quote and answer everyone but I would be in my chair the rest of the day. Thank you so much - there are so many responses I agree with!

 

Angela - I understand about Challenge not being rigorous enough. The only area where it would challenge ds right now would be writing.... but I'm not unhappy with the path we are on. Also, history has always driven our writing and our literature. My ds has always read above grade level (well, once he learned to read, that is, LOL!). Challenge A would take away history, his favorite subject and our vehicle for most of our reading and writing. It would have him re-read books he has already read. I would rather keep him progressing in his desire to tackle tougher books and just keep working on his writing knowing we will eventually get where we need to go rather than re-read easier books for the purpose of jumping into longer writing assignments.

 

Also, thank you for posting your experience with other avenues for presentations/public speaking. A once/month or twice/month get together for a presentation, a book discussion, a demonstration, etc. sounds like a great idea.

 

Pylegang - you are absolutely right that this is the time of year for feelings of burn out and wanting to get finished! I agree with many of the positives you list for CC. But I am really thankful to get to plan next year without it. What we are giving up in our time and money is not worth what we are getting out of it. Just for clarification, the fast pace I refer to is my inability to cover, in context, Charlemagne one week and William the Conqueror the next week and Richard the LionHearted the next. To me memorizing 500 tidbits (some of which I would rather have consistency with our other school work - i.e. our math program, FLL memorization, our Latin lessons, etc.) without the context is out of line with *my* preference for *our* homeschool. Caring about information and knowing why it is important means as much to me as the information itself. I'm not trying to attack CC - it really has many points to commend it - I'm just saying it is not a good fit for us and may or may not be a good fit for others. Thanks for sharing all the things you love about it - it really has a lot of good points.

 

Scuff, Tess.... If anything I've posted helps you with your decision then it was worth it. So many times I've had to try something to get a feel for it and to figure out if it fit us. I'm glad to help anyone I can get as much info (positive or negative) to help them make an informed decision!

 

Scuff - thanks for asking about other co-op options for us. My dh is deployed, so we're torn between needing "fellowship" vs. needing life to be a little "slower" right now. We already have piano lessons outside of the house and we go to Bible Study Fellowship one night/week, so we may decide not to join anything else next year. There is a co-op closer to our home that would provide P.E. and "music" that I'm still considering. It's a "plus" that it meets in the afternoon and so wouldn't rob us of a full day of school. We'll see....

 

Thanks all! I'm glad to discuss the pros and cons, and as pp said, I'm glad the thread hasn't gone "snarky." :001_smile:

[JudoMom]

 

We'll miss the presentations--my boys have grown a lot through those experiences--but I'm hopeful that we'll find another outlet for that. .

 

Institute for Cultural Communicators is a great place to learn & practice public speaking skills.

[AFwife Claire]

We are leaving for probably the opposite direction as many. It just isn't rigorous enough for us, especially at the Challenge level. It is great for those who are new to classical or who just want a bit of classical, but we have been at this (classical education) a long time and found ourselves "past" CC. I think Challenge is a great thing for those moms whose other alternative is giving their dc school work to do totally independently. At least the students are getting discussion, teaching, and interaction in Challenge.

 

I started it here, I stayed with it to get it going, and I tried to share my passion for classical through it. As my dc get older, though, I have to make them my priority. (There are other reasons for us to leave, including personality issues on campus :glare: and such, but partly it is because of Challenge.) I will still try to come alongside other homeschoolers, but in a way in which I have more control. We are going to do a few smaller specific co-op and tutorial classes with carefully chosen homeschool friends next year instead.

 

Wow, this is basically where we are at as well! My oldest child is in 7th grade, but I put him in the masters class, since it was our first year (and we were in a new campus, with no challenge program). This worked out just fine, and everyone learned a lot, but we all just got burnt out, as many others have said, by the weekly meetings. Since I was tutoring, I found I was just too stressed. As we learned more about the challenge program, we decided that really wasn't the answer for us for high school. We are also starting a very small co-op with 4 other families with jr. high age boys, and we are planning a rigorous curriculum. For our younger kids, we will do some CC-style memory work, but more in context, and also continue doing science and art, because those were big draws for me. I don't like doing art at home!

 

I did really like the group of ladies in our CC, and ours was a special campus. We have a lot of special needs kids there, so our director took some freedoms with how CC usually is run to better accomodate them. I had a boy with autism in my class, as well as a boy with more unspecified special needs (but wasn't reading or writing by 3rd grade, and also had definite speech problems). It was very neat to see how they could memorize things, and it was so neat to see the other kids in the class treat those boys with such kindness and friendliness, even though it made it hard for me as the tutor to come up with good review games, for example.

 

But today was my last day, since we will be out of town next week, and I am definitely shouting a big "Woo hoo!" right now! I'm free! I never knew I was such a rebel until CC! I am definitely not cut out for their rigidity!

[Amy in KS]

I did CC at home this year for many of the reasons you shared. I met with a couple of other families once a week and we formed our own little group. We reviewed the timeline, history songs, and math skip counting. We skipped Latin and English grammar (because our kids were mostly k-2). We did a history project, a science project, and an art project. Worked great!

 

Linda--

Would you be willing to share the cc timeline song? We would really appreciate it!

[Amy in KS]

Oh, and if anyone is interested in selling me their cycle 1 CD's, please pm me. I'm a cycle behind (doing cycle 3 now).

[delaney]

I am a bit discouraged about signing up now b/c I dont like to be locked into stuff. Since this will be my first year full time I will go ahead though. I feel like I need that day to stay in touch with other moms and keep my enthusiasm up. Who knows maybe I will get burned out. I appreciate the candor!

[monalisa]

I am a bit discouraged about signing up now b/c I dont like to be locked into stuff. Since this will be my first year full time I will go ahead though. I feel like I need that day to stay in touch with other moms and keep my enthusiasm up. Who knows maybe I will get burned out. I appreciate the candor!

 

Don't be discouraged! It might be your cup of tea, who knows? This time last year, I'm not sure I'd have been able to grasp what people were saying on this thread. I'm glad we tried it, and it really has helped me hone in on what I do and don't want to do in HS. Best of all, I realized my dd loves history. But I must admit I will be So Glad to be done next week!!!

[Another Lynn]

I am a bit discouraged about signing up now b/c I dont like to be locked into stuff. Since this will be my first year full time I will go ahead though. I feel like I need that day to stay in touch with other moms and keep my enthusiasm up. Who knows maybe I will get burned out. I appreciate the candor!

 

Don't be discouraged. It is a great place for fellowship. And if you start to feel locked in remember it's only 24 weeks - I think that is another one of its benefits.

[Gratia271]

I vacillated for a long time in terms of signing up to be one of their instructors for Challenge level. I decided against it after having numerous discussions acknowledging ability differences among students yet being told that students could not step out of sequence and advance based on ability. One beautiful reality about hs is that we can allow our children to advance at their own pace. I have grown weary of the programmatic thinking that these groups (at least the one I had conversations with) eschew in ps yet ultimately promote in their own groups. They have some neat materials to purchase and use, but the behind the scenes approach I observed was too rigid.

[AFwife Claire]

Don't be discouraged! It might be your cup of tea, who knows? This time last year, I'm not sure I'd have been able to grasp what people were saying on this thread. I'm glad we tried it, and it really has helped me hone in on what I do and don't want to do in HS. Best of all, I realized my dd loves history. But I must admit I will be So Glad to be done next week!!!

 

Oh yes, I totally agree with this! Don't be discouraged! I am glad we did it for a year. Aside from the fact that my kids did really learn a lot, and it WAS nice to have them all doing the same memory work, I feel like it was valuable experience as far as me knowing exactly what I like and don't like in co-ops. Since I have a lot of kids, so many more years of co-ops ahead of me, I think this knowledge will be very useful! I really thought CC would appeal to me--I do a lot of memory work, I have homeschooled classically since the beginning, etc.--so it was a real eye-opener to me to find out that it really didn't fit for me! Even if you absolutely hate it--it is only 24 weeks long! : )

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Post deleted.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Oak Knoll Mom
See Heather in VA's post below

[Heather in VA]

deleted

Edited March 26, 2010 by Heather in VA

[Julie_Julie]

*

Edited March 27, 2010 by Julie_Julie

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Is it that you want to keep your son in the nursery? I'm not disagreeing with you, but just wondering. I know the Abecedarian class is supposed to be VERY geared toward the little ones ~ very sweet and fun. (I also know this isn't the case in all campuses, though!)

 

No, I want to keep him with me as a lap child (we don't have a nursery at this point--no need at this time).

Edited March 26, 2010 by Oak Knoll Mom

[Heather in VA]

I debated posting about this but I feel it's important and since I'm simply telling my experience I feel it's ok.

 

I want to warn those of you who are posting any comments that could be conceived as negative about CC but plan to return. Last year we were a part of a CC group. There were many discussions on this board about CC and I responded to many of them. At the time it was going very well and I said very nice things. I did comment on two posts concerning organization and policy. There was a question about a supposed rule that CC only allowed people to be Challenge tutors if they currently have or have had in the past students of that age. (in other words a mom whose oldest is 8 can't tutor Challenge B which is for 8th graders). I hadn't heard of this rule and it wasn't true on our campus. Our Challenge B tutor's oldest child was 10. So I commented that if it was a rule that not all campuses were able to follow it so I advised that the poster check their particular campus if it was important to them. I another post I said that our director was encouraging even the 4-5 year old tutors to assign topics for their presentations rather than letting the mom choose. This again was different depending on the campus. I thought with both of these posts I was pointing out that the experience can be different depending on the campus and encouraging people to check their specific one out. I didn't consider the comments derogatory. But I got a phone call from our director. She asked me if I was 'Heather in VA' on WTM. She said 'they", and I don't know who 'they' is, check homeschool boards and found my "negative and inappropriate' comments about CC. I was told I should not be making comments like that, especially in a public setting and if people have questions about CC they can ask the CC directors etc in person and not in a public forum. I was told my comments were 'unChristian" and I was told to cease and desist immediately. I never went back to CC. The idea that they wanted to control my speech was disturbing but what was really troubling is the idea that "they" peruse homeschool boards to make sure they are ok with what their members are saying.

 

This may be an isolated incident with the campus I was part of. But in case this is done by other campuses, please be careful with what you say if you want to continue. I'd hate for someone else to get a similar phone call. It was clear she had talked to other people on our campus about my 'comments' so I suspect if I had elected to continue it would not have been comfortable.

 

Heather

[Hen]

Delaney,

 

don't feel stressed about being locked into it, because you are not..unless you are a tutor, and then you are committed to being there and preparing every week. I'm burnt out, but I was a tutor, so I could not take a week off or slow down, if you are not going to be a tutor, then you can take time for breathing room if you need it.

 

I'm still processing this whole thread and my thoughts, I'll be posting about my CC experience on my blog..just not sure yet of what I want to say..and the warning post sure gave me pause there!!:001_huh:

 

overall, I think the good we experienced outweighed any negatives or things I didn't think were perfect..but I am burnt out and need to get back the day we lost this year, so I will not be returning. I also homeschool a friend's child who has a learning disability, I realize now I should have stayed home and focused on the things we need for him to catch up on.

 

I am seriously thinking about re-doing much of the memory work from this year (Cycle 1) because I thought most of it was fantastic, just at a slower pace and leaving out some of the things I don't think we need to memorize, like the features of the ocean floor...

 

I do think that my year as a tutor taught me how to do memory type work, and I feel much more confident about continuing with memory work next year, if I hadn't tutored, I wouldn't have gotten very far with doing the work on my own..but that is just my personality.

 

I think overall, from my experience, CC is a good thing..but maybe not for someone who is behind in areas of homeschooling, you do lose a whole day and more if you are serious about the review work and presentations.

[FloridaLisa]

I debated posting about this but I feel it's important and since I'm simply telling my experience I feel it's ok.

 

I want to warn those of you who are posting any comments that could be conceived as negative about CC but plan to return. Last year we were a part of a CC group. There were many discussions on this board about CC and I responded to many of them. At the time it was going very well and I said very nice things. I did comment on two posts concerning organization and policy. There was a question about a supposed rule that CC only allowed people to be Challenge tutors if they currently have or have had in the past students of that age. (in other words a mom whose oldest is 8 can't tutor Challenge B which is for 8th graders). I hadn't heard of this rule and it wasn't true on our campus. Our Challenge B tutor's oldest child was 10. So I commented that if it was a rule that not all campuses were able to follow it so I advised that the poster check their particular campus if it was important to them. I another post I said that our director was encouraging even the 4-5 year old tutors to assign topics for their presentations rather than letting the mom choose. This again was different depending on the campus. I thought with both of these posts I was pointing out that the experience can be different depending on the campus and encouraging people to check their specific one out. I didn't consider the comments derogatory. But I got a phone call from our director. She asked me if I was 'Heather in VA' on WTM. She said 'they", and I don't know who 'they' is, check homeschool boards and found my "negative and inappropriate' comments about CC. I was told I should not be making comments like that, especially in a public setting and if people have questions about CC they can ask the CC directors etc in person and not in a public forum. I was told my comments were 'unChristian" and I was told to cease and desist immediately. I never went back to CC. The idea that they wanted to control my speech was disturbing but what was really troubling is the idea that "they" peruse homeschool boards to make sure they are ok with what their members are saying.

 

This may be an isolated incident with the campus I was part of. But in case this is done by other campuses, please be careful with what you say if you want to continue. I'd hate for someone else to get a similar phone call. It was clear she had talked to other people on our campus about my 'comments' so I suspect if I had elected to continue it would not have been comfortable.

 

Heather

 

Wow! And to think of the *freedom of speech* we've all enjoyed about every single homeschool curriculum/program on the market on these boards -- even those written and published by PHP! :001_smile: [And I have no horse in this race. I'm actually quite glad CC is another option and meets the needs of so many homeschoolers.]

 

Lisa

[monalisa]

Delaney,

 

don't feel stressed about being locked into it, because you are not..unless you are a tutor, and then you are committed to being there and preparing every week.

 

 

This is totally true...you don't have to go every week. And you certainly don't have to do any review during the week (many weeks, all we did was listen to CDs in the car). One person at my campus probably missed half the meetings because of things going on with her family, but her kids still enjoyed coming when they could. However, you are locked in financially. Once you turn in your tuition with the registration form, you won't get any of it back if you decide to drop out later in the year; the registration paperwork states it clearly. They equate this to how private schools operate, although that isn't how they (private schools) always work.

Edited March 27, 2010 by monalisa
clarification

[EmeraldGirl]

glad they aren't returning? :001_huh: :leaving:

 

I was scared to open the roll call thread.... but was surprised when I did how many responses I agreed with.... I found myself nodding when I read comments like these....

 

I love our group, our ladies, the kids, etc.

 

I also tire of the occasional attitude of "THIS is the best/only way to do classical homeschooling"

 

I also tire of the randomness of some of the memory work.

 

It does become an expensive source of extra information.

 

It does become an expensive playdate.

 

I also am not interested in the Challenge levels - which is where some of my oldest ds's friends are going next year (skipping their last year of Master's Class because they've outgrown Foundations).

 

I am SO excited to plan next year without this albatross around my neck!

 

After thought.... Hope I'm not offending anyone who is excited about doing CC next year.... I'm just weary (after 3 years) of trying to compromise and make it work when it is so contrary to my own ideas about how to homeschool. (If you hear distant shouting Monday afternoon, it might be me :D)

 

Thank you for articulating most of why I just couldn't bring myself to signing up for this program, though I am sure it is a good fit for some families.

[Karis]

CC is not for everybody. (every style, child, mom, budget...)

 

Sometimes we make impractical time commitments or have unrealistic expectations.

 

 

And...

CC is only as strong as it's individual communities.

 

Apparently those in leadership have taken notice and are trying to "weed their garden."

 

Some CCs conducts anon. satisfaction surveys on curriculum choices/ activities and the tutors & directors. That's a good thing.

 

 

Hopefully people won't complain over dumb stuff.

 

CC is a tool... a means to an end.

[Karis]

CC is not for everybody. (every style, child, mom, budget...)

 

Sometimes we make impractical time commitments or have unrealistic expectations.

 

 

And...

CC is only as strong as it's individual communities.

 

Apparently those in leadership have taken notice and are trying to "weed their garden."

 

Some CCs conduct anon. satisfaction surveys on curriculum choices/ activities and the tutors & directors. That's a good thing.

 

 

Hopefully people won't complain over dumb stuff.

 

CC is a tool... a means to an end.

 

oops typo

[Oak Knoll Mom]

 

Apparently those in leadership have taken notice and are trying to "weed their garden."

 

 

Could you explain this a little further? Who is weeding whom?

[lauracolumbus]

I debated posting about this but I feel it's important and since I'm simply telling my experience I feel it's ok.

 

I want to warn those of you who are posting any comments that could be conceived as negative about CC but plan to return. Last year we were a part of a CC group. There were many discussions on this board about CC and I responded to many of them. At the time it was going very well and I said very nice things. I did comment on two posts concerning organization and policy. There was a question about a supposed rule that CC only allowed people to be Challenge tutors if they currently have or have had in the past students of that age. (in other words a mom whose oldest is 8 can't tutor Challenge B which is for 8th graders). I hadn't heard of this rule and it wasn't true on our campus. Our Challenge B tutor's oldest child was 10. So I commented that if it was a rule that not all campuses were able to follow it so I advised that the poster check their particular campus if it was important to them. I another post I said that our director was encouraging even the 4-5 year old tutors to assign topics for their presentations rather than letting the mom choose. This again was different depending on the campus. I thought with both of these posts I was pointing out that the experience can be different depending on the campus and encouraging people to check their specific one out. I didn't consider the comments derogatory. But I got a phone call from our director. She asked me if I was 'Heather in VA' on WTM. She said 'they", and I don't know who 'they' is, check homeschool boards and found my "negative and inappropriate' comments about CC. I was told I should not be making comments like that, especially in a public setting and if people have questions about CC they can ask the CC directors etc in person and not in a public forum. I was told my comments were 'unChristian" and I was told to cease and desist immediately. I never went back to CC. The idea that they wanted to control my speech was disturbing but what was really troubling is the idea that "they" peruse homeschool boards to make sure they are ok with what their members are saying.

 

This may be an isolated incident with the campus I was part of. But in case this is done by other campuses, please be careful with what you say if you want to continue. I'd hate for someone else to get a similar phone call. It was clear she had talked to other people on our campus about my 'comments' so I suspect if I had elected to continue it would not have been comfortable.

 

Heather

 

 

This leaves me speechless.

[Karis]

I mean there seems to be a desire to address any issues/ weaknesses in the program to make it better.

We know nothing is perfect - but what and how can CC improve?

 

You know, tweak it.

 

 

This may simply be offering leadership and tutor training.

 

 

We have a really cohesive & prayerful group for the most part.

[AFwife Claire]

Wow, Heather, that is really an amazing story, but I guess I am not totally surprised. In my year of being on the CC boards (which you have to pay for, and if you are not a tutor, it is an arm and a leg! Definitely makes me appreciate this board!), I have felt that CC never wants to be seen as wrong or even to explain reasoning behind making selections in memory work or whatever. One recent example I can think of involved a map of Canada. We were memorizing a few of the provinces--Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Northwest Territories. A lady posted on the message boards that she thought the map was wrong, since Canada added a new province in the 90s, Nunavut, which used to be part of the Northwest Territories. Well, several people debated about why this map would be the way it was (and eventually someone who was a long-time tutor said she felt like it was because CC was showing the way Canada was when the British-North American Act established Canada, back in the mid-1800s), but then the moderator of the board posted. She told the original questioner that her questions were basically out of line on a public forum. If she had any questions, she was to email the moderator privately because CC is very careful about how they choose their stuff, etc., but a public place is not the place to discuss how they came to their conclusions. Really?! I would have LOVED to know more about what was behind the reasoning for a LOT of CC's memory work! I hated the idea that CC thinks we are all dumb and need them to tell us exactly what should be memorized, with no explanation as to why they considered it important, chose a certain map, picked a few random countries in geography out of a whole continent, or whatever! A public forum full of interested homeschooling moms is an excellent place to give reasonings like that! But it seemed to me like they didn't want anyone to question them or their way of doing things, and I felt like they were much too touchy about this one lady's questions (she was not mean, neagtive, or rude in any way). So I guess I'm not shocked they read these things and try to make people obey their whims!

[Hedgehogs4]

Wow...heather in va that is an amazing story, but not one that totally surprises me.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Hedgehogs4

[LisainVirginia]

I think we have to give CC a bit of a break on some of the organizational stuff. (I'm not sure if I'm a fan or not, so this is a non-biased opinion.) They are an organization founded by one mom who was an aerospace engineer by training, who came up with an idea that other moms found helpful, useful and supportive.

 

It sounds like they are probably growing WAY too quickly, with all of the 'growing pains' that entails, whether it's a church, Fortune 500 company, non-profit, etc. And they are only human. So, they are still acting like a family in some ways at the corporate level but considering how large they are, they really need to act more like a business on some of this stuff. But they are probably all/mostly homeschooling moms, just trying to do their best, who don't have time to think about that! IMHO, they've probably gotten too big too fast. It doesn't excuse things like how Heather in VA was treated, but it also makes me think they are not doing some of these things on purpose. And, if they become more like a company, the true value and presentation of classical, Christian ed will probably get lost in the shuffle.