Shall we try this again: health care Bill

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

So they should just keel over and let their kid die than take them to the ER?

 

No, not all. This bill will mandate insurance but it will also subsidize it for those who cannot afford it as well as allow others to get it who have been excluded. I say thank God for that:) This will be a tremendous help for our hospitals since they have shouldered the burden of un-insured care for quite some time now.

[delaney]

So they should just keel over and let their kid die than take them to the ER?

Oh no! What I mean is they could have gotten it but didn't want to pay b/c they can just go to the ER for basically nothing b/c they have no intention of paying more than a few bucks per month. I am talking about the people who learn to work the system. Not emergencies or anything.

[delaney]

No, not all. This bill will mandate insurance but it will also subsidize it for those who cannot afford it as well as allow others to get it who have been excluded. I say thank God for that:) This will be a tremendous help for our hospitals since they have shouldered the burden of un-insured care for quite some time now.

You said it better.:)

[Chris in PA]

I am all for helping those who need it. I am also for making healthcare affordable for all Americans. I also think it is wrong to exclude people for pre-existing conditions. I will pay my fair share IF it is truly going to help those who need it. However all this bill will do is increase government agencies. I heard today from my dh that this bill will create over 140 new government agencies. There is where my issues lie. If my taxes are going to increase I want it to be because I am helping my fellow American not just increasing and expanding an already bloated government. Just wait and see where we are 5 years from now.........

[Murphy101]

Oh geez. I keep hearing that some idiots are using the ER like a drs office but I have never ever met them while there or had anyone say they were going for that reason. Most people including myself would rather wait until they were at deaths door before going to a nasty wait with who knows what sickness floating about to be poked by whatever dr clocked in ER.

 

The closest I've ever heard are people who go to the ER bc it is the only place open when they got off work and they would've lost their job if they'd gone during their shift.

[Mrs Mungo]

So they should just keel over and let their kid die than take them to the ER?

 

I think the PP is referring to people who use the ER as a doctor's office. For example, people who take their kid to the ER for an ear infection or pink eye instead of going to the doctor.

[catalinakel]

See, this is what I keep coming back to as well. What would Jesus do if he were standing right here today?

 

If he saw a family in need would he have an array of questions for them ranging from "Did you eat healthy? If you had then perhaps you wouldn't have gotten that disease. Did you get an education? If you had then you could have afforded you own healthcare." How many job interviews have you gone on this week? If you really wanted a job and healthcare you would get them. Would he say that he works hard for his money and it just isn't his place to use his hard earned money paying for other peoples healthcare?

 

I really don't think he would. I believe in a Jesus that helped people because they needed help. Period. Final. He did not ask them if it was their fault they were in the pickle they were in. He just helped them. He didn't drill them on whether they were worthy of the help or not. He just helped them. That is what I keep coming back to. What would Jesus do?

 

Jesus told us that in this world we would have trouble. He also told us that His kingdom is not of this world. Please don't drag Jesus into the issues of Universal Healthcare.

[elizabeth]

I'm thrilled. Spinning, giddy, thrilled. My kid who is 19 and not 'in school' can have coverage soon (he's a walking disaster and needs it more than all of us put together), and all of my kids who are asthmatic won't be dropped (which was the sword of Damocles over our heads). It's not perfect, but it's a start. Hopefully as small business owners we won't have to pay Ungodly (you'd faint. Yes, you would) amounts of money to insure our workers.

 

Immigration? I love amnesty. Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses. I totally believe in amnesty and that it will be passed. Every itoa of my parentage came here on a boat. It's what America is about.

 

Bravo! I wish they had done more .

[catalinakel]

I am all for helping those who need it. I am also for making healthcare affordable for all Americans. I also think it is wrong to exclude people for pre-existing conditions. I will pay my fair share IF it is truly going to help those who need it. However all this bill will do is increase government agencies. I heard today from my dh that this bill will create over 140 new government agencies. There is where my issues lie. If my taxes are going to increase I want it to be because I am helping my fellow American not just increasing and expanding an already bloated government. Just wait and see where we are 5 years from now.........

 

That's the scary part I'm talking about...that we won't really know the effect of this bill until many years down the line. And I don't have any reason to believe that any of us will be happy with the results then because I don't trust the people who have put this thing together and now rammed it through congress.

[babysparkler]

All I choose to say is that I was proud to see that no Republicans voted "yes". Anything else I'd want to say would be out of line on these boards, so I will refrain ;)

[Slartibartfast]

Jesus told us that in this world we would have trouble. He also told us that His kingdom is not of this world. Please don't drag Jesus into the issues of Universal Healthcare.

 

That isn't Biblical.

 

“What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul.”

 

 

“It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven"

 

I don't think this is necessarily something a Christian would have to agree with :lol: I am just sayin' I don't think Jesus would be "Yay capitalism!"

Edited March 22, 2010 by Sis

[justamouse]

Jesus told us that in this world we would have trouble. He also told us that His kingdom is not of this world. Please don't drag Jesus into the issues of Universal Healthcare.

 

And so now it's justified who we care for and who we don't care for.

 

Yeah, I'm thinking Jesus didn't mean for us to use His words as an excuse. Christ is in the middle of this, this world is made up of people he DIED for. Every time we do for another, we do for Him. Love thy neighbor as thyself. If your neighbor comes asking for a loaf of bread...some people would give them a snake and say, "Jesus said there'd be trouble."

[justamouse]

Bravo! I wish they had done more .

 

I'm praying the Public Option in.

[Slartibartfast]

I'm praying the Public Option in.

 

Me too. :)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I'm praying the Public Option in.

 

Me too:)

[Mommyof4ks]

I hate to say, "I remember when...", because it can be so fruitless. However, I remember when my mother didn't have health insurance for my sister and I. We went to the doctor when we needed some kind of treatment or procedure, and it was affordable. I know it's delusional to think about it, but I wish we could go back to those days.

 

I had a discussion along these lines with my kiddos pediatrician a couple of years back. Rather than 'fixing' insurance just toss it and let the docs set their pay which will be based on what people are willing to pay for services. Catastrophic insurance is fairly cheap for major illnesses, but for strep ins. should not be necessary. This would let us focus on healthcare reform too!

[astrid]

:iagree::iagree: EDITED TO ADD:: I was agreeing with Sis and Priscilla!! dwkilburn1 and I must have hit "send" at the same time!

 

astrid

Edited March 23, 2010 by astrid

[lovemyboys]

Look forward to Immigration reform ala amnesty....they'll need the extra votes.

 

Exactly. Recent speeches have included comments on immigration and education, so we know what they're headed for next. That and census-based redistricting to maximize the votes of all those "new" citizens.

 

:cursing: :banghead: :cursing:

[whitestavern]

Oh geez. I keep hearing that some idiots are using the ER like a drs office but I have never ever met them while there or had anyone say they were going for that reason. Most people including myself would rather wait until they were at deaths door before going to a nasty wait with who knows what sickness floating about to be poked by whatever dr clocked in ER.

 

The closest I've ever heard are people who go to the ER bc it is the only place open when they got off work and they would've lost their job if they'd gone during their shift.

 

My dh does a lot of work with the healthcare system of one certain state (names omitted to protect the innocent!) and this is a MAJOR problem according to at least two state government agencies. It's no myth.

[delaney]

Oh geez. I keep hearing that some idiots are using the ER like a drs office but I have never ever met them while there or had anyone say they were going for that reason. Most people including myself would rather wait until they were at deaths door before going to a nasty wait with who knows what sickness floating about to be poked by whatever dr clocked in ER.

 

The closest I've ever heard are people who go to the ER bc it is the only place open when they got off work and they would've lost their job if they'd gone during their shift.

You need to be in the Fauquier County Hospital on a Friday night. I had 3 such people working for me when I owned a daycare. I often asked, "Why not just get insurance?" (which I offered). Their answer was simple. "Why? We can go to the hospital."

[Mrs Mungo]

Exactly. Recent speeches have included comments on immigration and education, so we know what they're headed for next. That and census-based redistricting to maximize the votes of all those "new" citizens.

 

:cursing: :banghead: :cursing:

 

Do you realize how this sounds to minorities?

[Joy at Home]

Do you realize how this sounds to minorities?

 

How so? This was said in the context of amnesty - giving rights to illegal immigrants.

[Sandy in Indy]

Isn't this set up so that it doesn't apply to congressional members? I'm thinking of running for office... :patriot:

 

While this **might** be a good bill for some individual Americans, overall, I think it is bad for America. It seems to me that no one, including Congress, is entirely sure **what** it is that's being shoved down our throats.

[momzilla333]

I'm praying the Public Option in.

:iagree:

Oh yeah!

Amen!!!:D

[Mama Lynx]

I feel frustrated the the real issues with our healthcare system were not addressed.

 

YES.

[mommaduck]

I think the PP is referring to people who use the ER as a doctor's office. For example, people who take their kid to the ER for an ear infection or pink eye instead of going to the doctor.

 

Like I said, someone should just let their kid die then, because this presumes that ear infections always resolve themselves. Though many times they do, they can also become an emergent situation. I've been there.

[mommyrooch]

Jesus told us that in this world we would have trouble. He also told us that His kingdom is not of this world. Please don't drag Jesus into the issues of Universal Healthcare.

 

I did not in any way mention "his" kingdom. That is a whole other topic. ;) I am talking about the here and now.

 

I was asking a legitimate question regarding the treatment of fellow Americans. I simply asked "What would Jesus do"? IMHO everything in and of "this world" includes Jesus so it makes perfect sense to include him in a conversation pertaining to the treatment of others.

 

I believe it is a very legitimate question and one that warrents asking. Isn't that what we should do pertaining to all things "in this world"? Should we as Christians not wonder or care about how Jesus would handle things whether they are "in this world" or not?

 

I was not preaching to anyone. I was not saying you must believe this or you must believe that. I was not questioning anyone's religious beliefs. I was asking, not only others but also myself, "what would Jesus do" if he were here.

 

I ask myself that question on all issues "in this world". It is not a question reserved for "universal healthcare" (which by the way is not what this reform is) It is a question that warrants asking anytime we're not sure which road to take.

 

I always have and will continue to include Jesus in any and all topics that I don't have the answers on (including healthcare) because I want and need his guideance. The answers that I find when I include him have a monumental bearing on the decisions I make so it is 100% understandable why I would bring him up in this topic.

 

BTW: Priscilla was the first one that asked the question. I was only letting her know that it is a question that I also ask myself often.

[Mrs Mungo]

Like I said, someone should just let their kid die then, because this presumes that ear infections always resolve themselves. Though many times they do, they can also become an emergent situation. I've been there.

 

I'm not talking about emergent situations. I once spent 4 hours in the ER with my husband who had kidney stones (he's had them before). There were several people there, including a child who was running around, trying to play with the other kids who *clearly* had pink eye, who could have made a same day appointment in the morning. These were not actually people without insurance, either, this was a military hospital.

 

eta: The difference with the uninsured is that they cannot be turned away from public ERs, that's why they use the ER as a doctor's office and they can't/don't pay. This means higher costs for everyone else, including insurance companies. The *last* time I was in the ER with my son there were 2 homeless people in there who were drunk and were really just trying to get a hot meal. :( The hospital gave them cab vouchers.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[Mermaid Mama]

 

I also think that if the government wants us healthier they will stop forcing people to grow, feed their animals and eat mostly soy and corn.

 

:iagree:

To say nothing of Monsanto!!!

I'd venture to say that those who really rule the world don't care about those who work the world!!

[Mermaid Mama]

 

Six states, I believe, have already filed suits blocking this legislation as being unconstitutional.

 

Whe-hew! Anyone know which states?

If I had to guess I'd say Alaska, Texas, Montana......

[Plucky]

Whe-hew! Anyone know which states?

If I had to guess I'd say Alaska, Texas, Montana......

 

Washington state is in the process of fighting it as well. I think there are 11 states now.

[Mermaid Mama]

Now that would solve A LOT of health problems in the US! Give us free-roaming organic meats that have been vegetarian/grass fed! And an end to toxic grains, legumes and dairy!

 

WOW! You can tell I'm a Paleo Diet advocate, huh?:D

 

And raw milk sold by small family farms who know how to do it!

(I think raw milk isn't toxic).

[OnTheBrink]

Contrary to what Susan Sarandon and others believe, Jesus was not a social reformer or community organizer. I think in this situation His main concern would be people's spiritual conditions. YES, he healed the sick and fed the hungry, but there were much deeper implications to those deeds than simply providing food and healing. "Do not worry about food, or clothing...seek FIRST the kingdom." (paraphrase mine) While I'm not thrilled about yesterday's turn of events, and I don't like where this country is going, there is a bigger picture that He is sovereign over. I may not like it, and I may not understand it, but I have to trust in His plan. And, as long as I have the right to protest and express myself in this country, I plan to do so. And, if those rights are stripped, I'll still have my faith because being a Christian ≠ entitlement to live in a federal republic called the USA.

 

I'm not happy about what's happened, but I'm not without hope.

[LauraGB]

Whe-hew! Anyone know which states?

If I had to guess I'd say Alaska, Texas, Montana......

 

Alabama, Florida, Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington. The 11th dropped out, but I'm not sure who it was - Virgina?

[Mermaid Mama]

All I choose to say is that I was proud to see that no Republicans voted "yes". Anything else I'd want to say would be out of line on these boards, so I will refrain ;)

 

We are actually having a healthy DISCUSSION.

I think your comment is the kind that get the whole thread deleted.

Both parties SUCK for the record. So it's not because I am a democrat that I say this to you.

[lovemyboys]

:iagree: 100%. Especially with the bolded part. I believe that it is our moral responsiblity to take care of each other. I do belive in "sharing the wealth". The young and strong should take care of the old and weak and the rich should help take care of the poor.

 

I have absolutely no problems with being "forced" to pay my part so that others can have affordable, obtainable healthcare.

 

But that is the point for me. I am NOT being FORCED!! I just don't look at it that way. I see it as my moral responsibility to help take care of others that for WHATEVER reasons are weaker or poorer than me.

 

But that's just it. We do pay for people now, for the elderly with medicare and the poor with medicaid, for veterans with VA. There are problems and fraud with those (not so much fraud with VA). Why are these issues ignored? The homeless and illegal immigrants aren't turned away when they show up at ERs and clinics for care. Why weren't any of these issues targetted for reform in a way that will be economically feasible and take less than 5 years?

 

Because this isn't really about health care insurance reform at all. It's about a sweeping transformation to bring in larger government and greater control of all of our lives in the form of "care" for us.

 

Soon we will all be forced to buy health insurance or pay steep fines or risk jail. There's nothing free or constitutional about that. You'd better believe that when these things take effect there will be lots more legislation trying to regulate what we eat/drink/do/watch/etc. in ways we would find unimaginable today.

 

With the economic situation the way it is, is this really the answer to devastate our economy even more? How much will we the middle class (not to mention rich) be able to help everyone out then?

 

And weren't these last couple months supposed to be all about jobs anyway?

[Gretchen in NJ]

Alabama, Florida, Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington. The 11th dropped out, but I'm not sure who it was - Virgina?

Pennsylvania and Washington did?:svengo:Wow, that is shocking.:blink:

[Mermaid Mama]

I am not opposed to everyone being eligible for health insurance, but I do take issue with everyone being forced to purchase something they may not want.

 

 

AMEN!

[lovemyboys]

Yes, this. I hope, that as the details get hammered out, more issues will be addressed. However, I am realistic enough to know that there is going to be one big cluster for a really long time. I am making plans to be able to leave my current profession, as I will not continue to do what I do for a lesser wage. It is just not worth it to me, and I don't really see how they will be able to institute something on this large of a scale without it affecting those of us who are working in health care to a large extent.

 

One of my doctors said the same thing a couple months ago....he will figure some other way to practice or just retire. He's a surgeon/practioner probably in his early 50s with two teenage dc -- not what you'd say is retiring age.

[Mermaid Mama]

 

Immigration? I love amnesty. Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses. I totally believe in amnesty and that it will be passed. Every itoa of my parentage came here on a boat. It's what America is about.

 

But I don't think this country had the unemployment problem yesterday that we do today!!!! I see plenty of work go to those who will work for A LOT LESS (and under the table, and not legally here) because they live 12 to a house and so they get the job over the person who can't afford to work for so little.

[lovemyboys]

I had issue with people who chose not to have health care and used the ER like it was a Drs office. Then they would turn around and pay $5 per month just so they didn't get sued. Thanks. That's what makes paying patients pay more and puts hospitals out of business! I like that they are making people get health insurance for that reason. I also really like that my kids can stay on our policy until they are 26. That helps promote further education in my opinion. Other than that I really don't know how it will be effect my family directly so I won't complain until I get all the facts.

 

 

 

I saw a great report recently about urban hospitals dealing with this. Some have created clinics right near the ER so that when these folks show up at the ER for treatment, they are sent next door to the urgent care clinic vs. the Emergency Room. Win-win, they get seen, get medication, get treatment at a fraction of ER $ and ER stays available for true emergencies.

 

And for those "frequent fliers" who use the ER for a child's fever or their own aches and pains, the staff is trained to help get to the root of the issues with social workers -- they can get homeless individuals to shelter, addicts to treatment, etc., and establish relationships.

 

This is the most recent of a series of stories I've read about or seen on tv -- hospitals, communities and individuals are finding innovative ways to address the needs of people without insurance and/or those who use the ER as a clinic. It's really refreshing, these are truly grassroots, sensible solutions, and best of all, they financially viable -- they aren't costing exorbitant amounts.

[lovemyboys]

We are actually having a healthy DISCUSSION.

I think your comment is the kind that get the whole thread deleted.

Both parties SUCK for the record. So it's not because I am a democrat that I say this to you.

 

Just for the record, there was bi-partisanship on this bill, but it was opposition.

 

And you're right, this is a healthy reasonable discussion. It's refreshing.

[Mermaid Mama]

If TPTB really, really cared about getting the uninsured insured they would have just expanded medicaid and changed the eligibility rules for it. This bill makes ZERO sense.

 

EXCELLENT POINT!

(and yes, I am screaming).

[Mermaid Mama]

It is my understanding that it will be the role of the expanded IRS to determine if your insurance plan is adequate and if not they will now have the ability to issue liens, seize tax refunds, assess penalties, and to verify whether taxpayers' health insurance coverage is "acceptable."

 

Yvonne in NE

 

This is just so scary that I have nothing else to say....almost.

Steal from me some more so that those in office can have their high priced whores and their fancy cars and their expensive dinner parties. That's all it boils down to! They want the power for what it can get them! They could care less about us.

 

This is disgusting.

 

I might have to ban myself before I say what I really think.

[Gretchen in NJ]

EXCELLENT POINT!

(and yes, I am screaming).

:iagree: This is why some believe this is a path to a one payer system.

[at the beach]

Okay, I'm going to try to remember what I posted in that other thread that disappeared.

 

I don't know how I feel about the passage of this health care bill. But I don't like the way things are.

 

My issues with healthcare now:

 

Why do ordinary folks w/o insurance have to pay crazy rates for health care services? Insurance companies pay alarmingly discounted rates. I had blood tests done that were billed at $1,000 and my ins. co. paid the contract rate of less than $100. :001_huh: I recently heard of a doc who wanted to offer the uninsured the same rate for a visit as the insurance company reimbursed him. The ins. co. told him he could not do that. He had to charge those w/o insurance the full rate. What is that about?

 

Second, if you think your doctors are making treatment decisions, think again. It's insurance companies. And those forms they make people fill out before covering them? Yep, if you somehow leave anything off, good luck keeping coverage if you get really sick. And then good luck trying to fight the insurance company on them dropping you. You'll be in a paperwork nightmare. Dealing with a health insurance company on anything is often enough to actually cause one to become physically exhausted and mentally drained, and possibly even physically or mentally ill.

 

Catastrophic coverage? Yeah, okay, I think that's not a bad idea at all, but now many plans are catastrophic in nature but the insurance companies are charging an arm and a leg for those policies.

 

If you can't get coverage due to a pre-existing illness you are in a place of fear. Constant fear. If you get sick, you lose everything. We will have our home paid for this year. If my husband lost his job and we were without insurance, we'd be in serious trouble if anyone got sick. We'd lose everything we have worked so hard for. We are hardworking people and we try to do for others, and if we got sick, we would lose our home and all the equity in it? Through no fault of our own? How can that be okay? Especially if the reason we were denied coverage was because of a pre-existing illness?

 

We are in a place where workers are afraid to quit jobs and switch to something new or start their own businesses for fear of not being insured. How is that a good thing for our country when people live in fear of taking new risks and starting new challenges because they are tied to a job for insurance? Ugh.

 

And if you think you can pay your way on your own and stay healthy, that's well and good, if you stay healthy. But what if you come down with something, anything that will cost a lot? Maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars you could never pay back? What if you pick up a strange virus or bacteria? If expensive illness happens and you are uninsured, you will lose everything.

 

Tort reform? Something I found online that summarizes my views. Tort Reform: A Bad Bargain that Won't Fix Health Care. It's at Huffington Post. ETA: I have deleted the link I shared. I had no idea I was not supposed to include any links. I never noticed that there were specific rules for political threads. I don't post very much in those threads, so just wasn't paying attention. Sorry for breaking the rules. In any case, I don't think tort reform is the answer to the health care woes we have. IMO Lawyers are an easy target. I've seen people complain about "greedy" lawyers but then do a 180 when they need help and no one is there to help them but none other than a lawyer. I don't know any attorneys taking on med mal cases if they aren't legit.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Violet

[LauraGB]

All right. So, I have a question. Is this correct?

Under $75K per year, one is eligible for this new gov't healthcare.

If one seeks a job over $75k, the employer will be responsible for offering healthcare coverage?

And if so, what if the job provider is a small business owner?

How will they afford to meet the new standards and requirements for what business owners will be required to pay?

 

I'm afraid if my assessment is correct, the small business owner (and all of his employees) who depend on work from the larger business owners will be out of business, as the larger business owners will take thier business over seas to get around spending more money than they have allotted for healthcare (which means all of the large business owners will be out of work, too). Resulting in a whole lot more people out of work.

 

And, if we make over $280k, we will be taxed wickedly. So, where is the challenge to earn more than $75K in the first place?

[Mermaid Mama]

We could prevent probably 80% of all that makes us sick if the big business agriculture would revert back to family farms. If we didn't pollute the rivers and lakes and streams so that some big business could save a dollar. If we actually examined this CRAP they call "food." If we didn't shoot our kids up with toxic metals and god only knows what else!!! If we didn't call mercury fillings "silver amalgam," if we believed in fevers and fresh air and sunshine and play that is actually exercise......the list could go on and on and on......

 

But like someone else said....gone are the days of Little House on the Prairie and the Waltons.

Or are they? Because we may find that it cycles back out of necessity. Hope I'm still around for that if it does!

 

Oh well. Looks like I will be forced to pay for a "health care" plan that I don't believe in.

We'll all have to fund studies that show how red wine is good for our health and then maybe we can get a tax break on "insurance" because we can show that we drink PLENTY of red wine. Who's with me?!?!?!?!!

Wine for all and tax breaks for it!

[cdrumm4448]

Why do ordinary folks w/o insurance have to pay crazy rates for health care services? Insurance companies pay alarmingly discounted rates. I had blood tests done that were billed at $1,000 and my ins. co. paid the contract rate of less than $100. :001_huh: I recently heard of a doc who wanted to offer the uninsured the same rate for a visit as the insurance company reimbursed him. The ins. co. told him he could not do that. He had to charge those w/o insurance the full rate. What is that about?

 

I may be wrong, but isn't it a federal law that doctors must charge everyone the same? I believe it was originally meant to protect the public from being overcharged, but now we're experiencing the flip side: insurance companies contract their price down, and your regular old cash-paying person cannot. I have always had a problem with that.

[Jen500]

We could prevent probably 80% of all that makes us sick if ....

 

Just wondering where you got that statistic, please.