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Is it detrimental to take the SAT's more than 3 times?


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this is a cross post from the General Forum...someone there suggested i bring my question here so here goes:

 

I was just having a discussion with another friend and she advised me against having my freshman son take the SATs this spring. My thinking was to give him as much practice before it 'really counts' but she had heard that colleges actually do not like to see it taken more than 3x. I thought I could decide which of his scores were sent to colleges? Do they automatically show up on some database??

Figured I'd ask here before registering him for this spring.

Blessings,

K

Thanks for any input you can give

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Many, many people do not realize that although College board allows for "Score choice" where you can select the dates for the scores that you send to colleges, there are loads of universities and colleges that require you to "Submit all scores"

 

Never, EVER, take an official test that College board administers just for practice. You may have the unfortunate experience of being required to submit scores that you truly wish did not exist.

 

If you want him to practice, and by all means he should do lots of practice tests, buy the book 10 real SAT's and do it at home, timed and with breaks just like the real McCoy. Or have him take practice tests at a tutoring firm that gives free ones (to try to draw you in....it is still good practice, or at least reasonably good practice, depending on the firm.)

 

I will inquire with a good friend who is a professional college counselor about the 3 times rule...I'll get back to you on that.

 

But, please don't make the mistake of taking official SAT or SAT Subject tests officially just to see where you stand....it is a big mistake.

 

It could really hurt.

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It is a bad idea with the SAT, but a good idea with the ACT.

 

I just copied this from the act.org website:

 

 

"Which scores are reported if I test more than once?

If you have taken the ACT (No Writing) or ACT Plus Writing more than once, we maintain a separate record for each test date. If you ask us to send a report to a college, we will release only the record from the test date you request. This protects you and ensures that you direct the reporting of your scores.

 

If you wish, you may ask us to report more than one test date record to a college. However, you may not select test scores from different test dates to construct a new record; you must designate an entire test date record as it stands. ACT does not create new records by averaging scores from different test dates."

 

 

You can see all the ACT FAQs here: http://www.actstudent.org/faq/faq.html

 

 

"Should I test again?

You should definitely consider retesting if you had any problems during testing, such as misunderstanding the directions, running out of time, or not feeling well. Many students test twice, once as a junior and again as a senior.

 

You may also want to consider retesting if you don't believe that your scores accurately represent your abilities, especially if you see a discrepancy between your ACT scores and your high school grades, or if you have completed coursework or an intensive review in the subject areas included in the ACT since you tested.

 

How will you do on a retest?

 

Research shows that of the students who took the ACT more than once:

 

55% increased their Composite score on the retest

22% had no change in their Composite score on the retest

23% decreased their Composite score on the retest

If you test more than once, you determine which set of scores are sent to colleges or scholarship programs. ACT reports only one test date per report."

Edited by Suzanne in ABQ
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http://professionals.collegeboard.com/testing/sat-reasoning/scores/policy

 

From the College Board:

 

FAQs

Q: Is Score Choice available for both SAT and SAT Subject Tests score reports?

 

A: Yes. Students can select which scores they send to colleges by test date for the SAT and by individual test for SAT Subject Tests.

 

Q: Does using Score Choice cost more?

 

A: No. This feature can be used on any score report sent (the four score reports available through registration or additional score reports) at no additional cost to students. Our pricing policy, with respect to additional score reports, has not changed.

 

Q: Does Score Choice disadvantage students who don't take the test multiple times?

 

A: No. Research shows that students generally see modest score increases upon taking the test a second time. If there are gains from further testing, they tend to be even smaller.

 

Q: What if students do not abide by a college's or university's score-use practice?

 

A: As a matter of integrity, students are expected to follow college admissions policies, and the same is true with respect to a student's sending of test scores to colleges. Students are responsible for complying with the admissions requirements of the colleges, universities, and scholarship programs to which they apply.

 

Q: Is there a loophole that allows colleges to "opt out" of Score Choice?

 

A: Colleges cannot "opt out of" or "reject" Score Choice. Score Choice is a feature available to students. Colleges set their own policies and practices regarding the use of test scores. The College Board does not release SAT test scores without student consent. This continues under Score Choice. Colleges, universities, and scholarship programs will receive the scores applicants send to them.

 

Q: Does Score Choice affect other aspects of SAT registration and score-report timing, policies or processes?

 

A: No. Score Choice allows students to select which scores are sent to institutions. It does not affect score-report timing or other policies and procedures that are not directly related to sending score reports.

 

Q: Should SAT scores be reported on high school transcripts?

 

A: The SAT Program recommends that schools do not place SAT scores on students' high school transcripts that are sent to colleges. Schools should encourage students to send official score reports to colleges. If a school still decides to send scores on a transcript, the SAT Program recommends that a school receive official consent from the student, parent or guardian before doing so.

 

Q: Does Score Choice affect score sends?

 

A: All test scores are automatically sent to institutions with each score report if a student does not actively choose to use Score Choice. However, if a student chooses to use Score Choice, then the College Board will send only the scores that a student selects when sending a score report. This means that colleges cannot assume that all score reports include all student scores.

 

The method of score delivery (e.g., paper, CD, or Electronic Score Reports) is not affected by Score Choice. However, the College Board no longer automatically reports cumulative scores (a student's entire record of SAT scores). In the event a student requests that the College Board send a second score report to an institution, the second report will only include the unique set of scores selected by the student, which may or may not contain scores previously sent.

 

Important Note: When a student chooses to send all of their SAT scores each time they send a score report, they may choose not to send all of their SAT Subject Testâ„¢ scores on each report. Due to this, it is important to retain all of the score information sent by the College Board on behalf of the student.

 

Q: What's the best way to keep track of students' scores?

 

A: Since score reports may not reflect students' cumulative record of SAT scores, we recommend that institutions keep all score reports for each potential candidate. Regardless of whether an institution receives paper score reports, electronic score reports or CD score reports, the only way to ensure an institution has a record of all scores that a student has sent is to retain every report.

 

Note: Electronic systems that automatically delete and replace score records may not accurately reflect a student's full performance.

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Another note (having just finished the college application process):

 

My daughter chose the ACT in high school and took it twice. Most colleges do let you submit just the highest testing date from the ACT, as Suzanne pointed out above. However, one of the colleges, Stanford, required that ALL the ACT scores be sent. Their policy:

 

 

  • Applicants must self-report and submit all SAT scores OR all ACT scores. After you decide which testing agency will send your scores, applicants cannot elect to use the College Board's Score Choice or elect to "hide" any scores with either testing agency. The only exception to this rule would be tests taken for the purpose of talent programs in middle or junior high school (e.g. Johns Hopkins Center for Talent Youth, Duke University's Talent Identification Program, etc.). Those test scores do not have to be sent to Stanford. Applicants may also selectively submit whatever SAT Subject Test scores they choose, as those scores are not required for admission.
  • Stanford recognizes that the ACT organization charges for each individual score report sent to colleges and universities. If the cost associated with the submission of all ACT scores presents a financial hardship for your family, you may simply send one score report and self-report the remainder of your ACT scores. All official scores will be required if you are offered admission.

 

So...just be prepared! Your best bet is to go to the websites of the colleges your student is interested in and find out their policy about score choice.

 

~Kathy

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http://professionals.collegeboard.com/testing/sat-reasoning/scores/policy

 

From the College Board:

 

FAQs

Q: Is Score Choice available for both SAT and SAT Subject Tests score reports?

 

A: Yes. Students can select which scores they send to colleges by test date for the SAT and by individual test for SAT Subject Tests.

 

Q: Does using Score Choice cost more?

 

A: No. This feature can be used on any score report sent (the four score reports available through registration or additional score reports) at no additional cost to students. Our pricing policy, with respect to additional score reports, has not changed.

 

Q: Does Score Choice disadvantage students who don't take the test multiple times?

 

A: No. Research shows that students generally see modest score increases upon taking the test a second time. If there are gains from further testing, they tend to be even smaller.

 

Q: What if students do not abide by a college's or university's score-use practice?

 

A: As a matter of integrity, students are expected to follow college admissions policies, and the same is true with respect to a student's sending of test scores to colleges. Students are responsible for complying with the admissions requirements of the colleges, universities, and scholarship programs to which they apply.

 

Q: Is there a loophole that allows colleges to "opt out" of Score Choice?

 

A: Colleges cannot "opt out of" or "reject" Score Choice. Score Choice is a feature available to students. Colleges set their own policies and practices regarding the use of test scores. The College Board does not release SAT test scores without student consent. This continues under Score Choice. Colleges, universities, and scholarship programs will receive the scores applicants send to them.

 

Q: Does Score Choice affect other aspects of SAT registration and score-report timing, policies or processes?

 

A: No. Score Choice allows students to select which scores are sent to institutions. It does not affect score-report timing or other policies and procedures that are not directly related to sending score reports.

 

Q: Should SAT scores be reported on high school transcripts?

 

A: The SAT Program recommends that schools do not place SAT scores on students' high school transcripts that are sent to colleges. Schools should encourage students to send official score reports to colleges. If a school still decides to send scores on a transcript, the SAT Program recommends that a school receive official consent from the student, parent or guardian before doing so.

 

Q: Does Score Choice affect score sends?

 

A: All test scores are automatically sent to institutions with each score report if a student does not actively choose to use Score Choice. However, if a student chooses to use Score Choice, then the College Board will send only the scores that a student selects when sending a score report. This means that colleges cannot assume that all score reports include all student scores.

 

The method of score delivery (e.g., paper, CD, or Electronic Score Reports) is not affected by Score Choice. However, the College Board no longer automatically reports cumulative scores (a student's entire record of SAT scores). In the event a student requests that the College Board send a second score report to an institution, the second report will only include the unique set of scores selected by the student, which may or may not contain scores previously sent.

 

Important Note: When a student chooses to send all of their SAT scores each time they send a score report, they may choose not to send all of their SAT Subject Testâ„¢ scores on each report. Due to this, it is important to retain all of the score information sent by the College Board on behalf of the student.

 

Q: What's the best way to keep track of students' scores?

 

A: Since score reports may not reflect students' cumulative record of SAT scores, we recommend that institutions keep all score reports for each potential candidate. Regardless of whether an institution receives paper score reports, electronic score reports or CD score reports, the only way to ensure an institution has a record of all scores that a student has sent is to retain every report.

 

Note: Electronic systems that automatically delete and replace score records may not accurately reflect a student's full performance.

 

 

Thanks so much for posting this...but I'm still a bit confused. This seems to say that I can choose which reports to send but the other poster seems to say that I can't 'hide' or choose to withhold a score. I do have an SAT review book and my son is a freshman this year so maybe we should just wait. Some of our friends who are excellent students in the public school here have been 'invited' to take the SAT in 8th grade. This is considered a privilege so I am confused why they would do this if it could jeopardize their chances of college admission???

Any thoughts???

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Are you sure it was 8th grade?? My guess it was part of a talent search. My 7th grader just took the SAT as part of the Duke program. AS a previous poster said, you don't have to report that one. BUT you do for high school for SOME schools. It varies by schools. Junior high you don't have to submit. Don't take it for practice in high school. However, I believe the PSAT is different. I do plan on having my sons take it for practice their 10th grade year.

 

Christine

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Re middle school scores:

 

The college board automatically erases any SAT scores taken before ninth grade unless you specifically instruct them otherwise. There is no risk in taking it then for talent search purposes (and some talent searches are for both 7th and 8th graders, unlike Duke TIP).

 

~Kathy

 

Thanks,that makes sense!

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Thanks so much for posting this...but I'm still a bit confused. This seems to say that I can choose which reports to send but the other poster seems to say that I can't 'hide' or choose to withhold a score. I do have an SAT review book and my son is a freshman this year so maybe we should just wait. Some of our friends who are excellent students in the public school here have been 'invited' to take the SAT in 8th grade. This is considered a privilege so I am confused why they would do this if it could jeopardize their chances of college admission???

Any thoughts???

 

1. It's my understanding that sending all scores is a choice made by a student. I have been told that a college can't tell from a report if all scores or selected scores have been sent. Thus, you're on the honor system if a school requires that you send *all* scores. They can't verify if you've complied. And, for many schools, you don't have to send all scores.

 

As previous posters have indicated, it's best to find out how schools you're interested want scores sent. I have been told that schools are placing less emphasis on the SAT for admission in general, however, the importance may be different for home schooled students.

 

2. Talent search programs/early testing in jr high doesn't count (including both 7th and 8th grade since you can test early in either or both grades). These scores aren't banked as part of the student's test record.

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I'm with those that think it's a bad idea to do the SAT (or ACT) in 9th grade simply to test the waters. At that level, do practice tests of each at home, then work on filling in any gaps found.

 

In 10th grade, take the PSAT (Oct - only date given) and see how the scoring goes. Then, go by the student. My oldest took the SAT only once March of his Junior year, then took the ACT in the fall of his Senior year. He scored well on both and never needed another test.

 

Since my current sophomore son is much more academically talented, but possibly test shy, I'm having him take the ACT in the spring of his sophomore year for extra practice to prep for the PSAT in the fall of his Junior year (when it counts). They are different tests, but he mainly needs the "test" practice - not the specific type. His ACT score should be high enough to get him in essentially anywhere, so he's not likely to need to retest with that one.

 

If he scores into National Merit ranks with the PSAT, then he'll take the SAT afterward to complete that process. If not, we'll contemplate whether he needs the SAT or not based on his ACT score.

 

On the off chance of a bad testing day (for whatever reason) he'll still have opportunities to take the ACT and/or SAT a second time, but I don't expect him to need to.

 

He's done his practice to check for gaps at home, and his practice for taking "tests" came with the PSAT fall of sophomore year and ACT spring of sophomore year (coming up next month - though we expect to "keep" that one).

 

With the potential for "damage" in the eyes of colleges, there's no need to use "real" tests for the beginning of test practice just to check for gaps overall IMO.

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I have been told that schools are placing less emphasis on the SAT for admission in general, however, the importance may be different for home schooled students.

 

 

For what it's worth, we were told by several colleges both public and private that it IS vastly different for homeschoolers. Standardized test scores are highly looked at and used (SAT/ACT/SAT 2, etc) as they want scores to confirm the transcript. Community college classes are also good, but schools recognize that they vary in quality. The higher the level college you are looking at (or, sometimes more importantly, for merit aid), the higher they will want to see the scores. It's their main way to compare homeschooled kids to their public schooled counterparts. They also use scores more from students who apply from public schools they don't recognize, so it's not just us...

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Thanks so much for posting this...but I'm still a bit confused. This seems to say that I can choose which reports to send but the other poster seems to say that I can't 'hide' or choose to withhold a score. I do have an SAT review book and my son is a freshman this year so maybe we should just wait. Some of our friends who are excellent students in the public school here have been 'invited' to take the SAT in 8th grade. This is considered a privilege so I am confused why they would do this if it could jeopardize their chances of college admission???

Any thoughts??? quote.gif

 

1. The College Board allows you to choose which scores to send.

 

2. The individual college may or may not have a policy about this (Stanford wants all of them, West Point only uses the best and doesn't care what else you send in). As far as I can tell, compliance is on the Honor System. The report, we received did not indicate that there were other scores that we had not chosen to send. Check your school.

 

3. Tests taken in 8th grade and before automatically disappear from your record every June unless you request that they stay. So taking the test as an 8th grader does not jeopardize your chances, no matter what your college's policy is.

 

4. The PSAT can be taken several times also. Dd took it in 9th. One of the local schools has all their 9th graders take it. Only the 11th grade PSAT counts.

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Look, there may be a loophole to get around schools that don't respect Score Choice, but if you do instead only submit your top score date to the university when they have asked for all scores specifically, you are being dishonest on that application. If they were to find out somehow, you are likely to be rejected for lying on the application. It is, in my opinion, like falsifying a transcript.

 

There are many real practice tests out there....there is no good reason to take the SAT or SAT IIs before a student is ready.

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Look, there may be a loophole to get around schools that don't respect Score Choice, but if you do instead only submit your top score date to the university when they have asked for all scores specifically, you are being dishonest on that application. If they were to find out somehow, you are likely to be rejected for lying on the application. It is, in my opinion, like falsifying a transcript.

 

 

I agree completely.

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Look, there may be a loophole to get around schools that don't respect Score Choice, but if you do instead only submit your top score date to the university when they have asked for all scores specifically, you are being dishonest on that application. If they were to find out somehow, you are likely to be rejected for lying on the application. It is, in my opinion, like falsifying a transcript.

 

There are many real practice tests out there....there is no good reason to take the SAT or SAT IIs before a student is ready.

 

I totally agree with not withholding scores that were requested...not so much for the possible repercussions but because it would lying and a breach of integrity.

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You are absolutely right, it is not just the potential consequences of being caught in a lie. What would we be teaching our children about applying for positions and integrity in how we represent ourselves?

 

I personally could not live with myself in a lie, but some look at things from a purely "practical" point of view.

 

The risk of being caught is real. When a student completes an application there is a place where you sign it to say that you are not misrepresenting yourself. The reprucussions of such a lie could reach far into ones career aspirations as well. Lie on something like this and forget any job that requires a security clearance, or public office...etc.

 

Another, less often discussed point about schools that require submission of all scores is that many of those schools use super scoring, which is to the student's advantage. Schools that super score take the top Math, Critical Reading and Writing scores from across all test and create a new score for the student.

 

But, for my two cent's ... you have to be honest. It is just plain wrong to misrepresent yourself.

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You are absolutely right, it is not just the potential consequences of being caught in a lie. What would we be teaching our children about applying for positions and integrity in how we represent ourselves?

 

I personally could not live with myself in a lie, but some look at things from a purely "practical" point of view.

 

The risk of being caught is real. When a student completes an application there is a place where you sign it to say that you are not misrepresenting yourself. The reprucussions of such a lie could reach far into ones career aspirations as well. Lie on something like this and forget any job that requires a security clearance, or public office...etc.

 

Another, less often discussed point about schools that require submission of all scores is that many of those schools use super scoring, which is to the student's advantage. Schools that super score take the top Math, Critical Reading and Writing scores from across all test and create a new score for the student.

 

But, for my two cent's ... you have to be honest. It is just plain wrong to misrepresent yourself.

 

I don't think anyone would admit to disagreeing that it is wrong to misrepresent your scores or lie on an application.

 

The possibility that one could misrepresent one's scores, however, troubles me. For this reason as well as others, I do not like score choice. I believe the college board shouldn't provide the option and that full disclosure should be required. In fact, I think the college board is irresponsible for providing the option of test until you're happy and only send the scores you like. But, that's another thread....

 

Unlike you, I don't think it's likely that score suppression would become known. The college board sees the "loophole" and makes a point to assure students that colleges and universities can't force a student to send all of their scores.

 

IMO, the college board has an obligation to limit the number of times a student can test and/or fully disclose all scores.

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umm...if your child took the test when sick or something and got a truly horrible score, then took it and got a good to great score, and sent all scores (if requested), why would the college CARE about the bad score? They would see the great score too.

Also, wouldn't they see that a lower score in 9th grade would make sense, if someone chose to take it then?

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Obviously, you should not lie on your application. I wasn't suggesting lying. That is a whole separate issue.

 

However, I don't see score choice as a loophole or as misrepresentation. When someone asks what dd's time in the 50 free is, I tell them her best time - not every other time she has had along the way. When someone asks dd's SAT scores, they don't usually want a case history. Schools requesting all scores are in the minority (see list : http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/sat-score-use-practices-list.pdf)

 

The SAT Reasoning Test used to be called the Scholastic Aptitude Test. Your best score indicates the best you can do (ie. your aptitude). It indicates your potential - not what you have already achieved. Schools that don't insist on all scores or that superscore are using the SAT as an aptitude test, which is what it was designed for. Superscoring is effectively score choice done by the admissions office.

 

Schools that want all the tests, including the one from 9th grade when you had a stomach virus, and the power went out, etc, etc are using the test in a manner for which it was not intended. That's their choice but I see no reason why the College Board needs to accommodate itself to them.

 

Which brings us back to checking your school of choice their policy before deciding to take it several times.

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1) The red-covered 10 Real SATs book is outdated. It contains old tests from before the SAT revamp of 2005 (?), tests which include analogies, etc. This will not give you anything which is comparable to current tests in scoring and timing.

 

2) That said, the book is still very useful for picking and choosing CR and Math sections to practice with; it's a bit less useful for the writing sections, because you have to pitch the analogies sections.

 

3) The CB blue books, of which there are now two editions, have between them about 10 real practice tests; I'm not sure of the exact number. There are seven or eight in the 1st ed.; the 2nd edition has some that are repeats, plus 3 entirely new ones.

 

4) The CB blue books don't allow you to precisely calculate a score. They give you a possible score range. For benchmarking purposes, we charted the exact middle of the range--an arbitrary point, but at least it was consistent.

 

5) Score choice only works if you have the luxury of time to receive your scores and then decide which ones you want sent. Sending them takes up to an additional month or so past the date you receive scores. For kids trying to up scores to reach another scholarship level by a certain cut-off date, *start early*!!!

 

6) Score choice does not work with the free send option. If you send via score choice, it costs $9.50/school.

 

7) We found that many private schools were happy to accept dd even though we only sent in a printout of dd's SAT online score report and a printout of her university transcript (dual credit courses), provided we send in an official SAT report and final, official transcript before she enrolls. That has saved us $$. (For dual credit transcripts alone, it would have been three sends at $25/transcript for each college she applied to.)

 

8) If a student needs practice learning how to take high-stakes tests, I'd do it via the ACT and PSAT. The PSAT in particular is low cost, but the ACT is longer and therefore comparable to the experience of taking the SAT.

 

9) The PSAT can be taken anywhere a school offers it, if they give your child permission. Imagine my dismay when we found out that the SAT could only be taken at schools designated as National Testing Centers, not at the friendly private school where my kid took the PSAT, in spite of the staffer in charge had specifically invited him to come test there when he was ready to take the SAT. The school has to be a national testing center school! Plan early.

 

10) We've had a very good experience having dc take the SAT at the local university. There's none of the childish, us vs. them attitude from staffers and students that many in my area have found on high school campuses. If you would like to know whether a university testing center will work, I'd go check it out on a test day, see how well the test procedure is run and whether you want your kids testing there.

 

HTH

Edited by Valerie(TX)
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