Economic immobility?

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

Recently dh and I have been talking about how it used to be expected that children would eventually do better than their parents (socially, economically), but that when we look to the future, we wonder if that will be possible for our children's generation. This interesting article notes how now it is harder to climb the economic ladder in the US than in some other countries (Canada, Australia, Finland, Germany, & Sweden are specifically mentioned as countries where residents have an easier time moving up the economic & social ladder). Of particular note (since we homeschool) is the author's assertion that the US educational system may be partly to blame for the lack of upward economic mobility.

 

So, any thoughts on this article?

[laughing lioness]

I just read of a new economic model that talks about vertical and then horizontal movement so that the mover is creating a pyramid, rather than ascending a ladder. The experiences will be more diverse and the path might not seem as straight-forward. The book was "What I Wish I knew When I was 20" by Tina Seelig. Great reading on entrepreneurialism.

I do think that our kid will need to be very creative thinkiers in order to transcend the current market. Seems like we have entered a big shift and it will be the people that can think outside the box that will be the new movers and shakers, so from that pov I think your author has it right. Our public school system is all about conformity and rigidity in thinking.

[MeaganS]

I know this has been really bothering my husband lately for some reason. He's going to be a doctor, so we're not going to be bad off or anything, but his dad is a very successful business man. There's no way on earth my husband will make more than him. He knows its dumb and he knows we'll be in a great place financially, but for some reason he has it ingrained in his mind that if you don't make more than your dad, you're a failure. He'll be the first generation to have that not be the case in many generations. But frankly, I think there's a point where it almost becomes impossible, you know? It's also not that important either, IMO.

[Rosie_0801]

I don't know about the US, but don't count on moving here to Australia to solve all your problems!

 

The rigorous high school threads on this board are going to make me sub-par forever because I won't even be attempting that. My kiddies are going to be in the workforce, building a resume as soon as they are developmentally ready to do so. Getting a job is hard enough. Getting a job that allows you to progress is harder still. That's one of the major reasons I'm against my kids going to high school. If they're at school all day, they will have to take crappy retail work after school and on weekends. I'm hoping my kids will be able to start with junior office jobs. Those actually count for something on a resume in the medium and long term. Retail doesn't. If my kids need to take an extra year or two for high school to fit both education and employment in, that's fine with me. I also hope they'll consider buying a small flat or unit as soon as possible. We don't want them to be stuck the way their beloved parents are. :)

 

Rosie

[Mejane]

Yes it is disturbing, but not so much as the latest finding that our kids are not expected to live as long as we due to the obesity crisis. That one blew my mind.

[JennifersLost]

My parents really lived the American dream but none of us kids has quite matched it. My sister is the only one who is close. Her husband is an accountant and a partner in his business. They will be fine.

 

My brother - with an engineering degree from Cornell has had a rough go of it for years. He and his wife are finally making their way out of debt, partly brought on by her health issues, partly by their attempt to run a startup company.

 

My other brother is out of work with a mortgage to pay. He has been out of work several times and I know my parents worry about what will happen when they pass away.

 

I have struggled along, sometimes worse, sometimes better. My husband and I are solid right now, but far from well off, and much lower on the socioeconomic ladder than my parents were. I also graduated from an Ivy League university.

 

The biggest shock to my parents is that their second oldest grandson, my son, isn't even heading off to college when he graduates. Granted, he may change his mind and I'm pretty sure higher education will call him some day. But just the idea that one of their family might not get a degree blows their minds.

 

The way he sees it is technology is changing too fast for a degree in programming to mean anything except wasted time and debt. I agree. If he changes his mind and wants to pursue something that requires a degree, we'll re-evaluate.

 

One big difference - all my children expect to be self-employed. None of them even know what a pension is.

[lllll]

I don't know about climbing the ladder; but it might be possible to go up it sideways. My younger brother joined the Air Force right after high school. Got his degree in something or other while in the Air Force and then retired at a young age (late 30's or 40 maybe?). Began another career as a town administrator with his new degree. He was able to move to a few different jobs (same state) as one job finished and the next came up. I heard recently he's ready to 'retire' once again from this career. Not sure what his next career will be, but he's getting 2 'pensions' that I know of at the moment - and he's only 52yo.

 

Added to that, when he and his wife (kids gone) move to a new town, they buy a lesser house in a nicer neighborhood; fix it up; then, sell it at a profit when they get ready to move on to the next job.

 

Meanwhile, dh and I continue to move from (dh's) job to job in the same industry (semiconductor) in order to get significant raises; and either renting or buying a house, fixing it up, and then selling it for a smallish profit. But we never quite catch up like we'd like to. I just asked dh how much longer we have to pay on this house. He said about 15 years. We're 53. We'll be doing good to get the house paid off before he retires.

 

My parents, OTOH, lived in the same place for 35 years. My father worked at the same company for 35 years (DuPont). No moving expenses. That's almost unheard of nowadays. They had excellent health insurance, a nice pension, plenty of vacation, etc. Not many companies offer much of these things anymore.

 

To me, it's more about the changes occurring in business and industry which make it almost impossible for my generation to live the life my parent's generation lived. All I think we'll be able to do here is give our dc the best educaton we can - at home and otherwise - and the rest will be up to them. But I have no clue what kind of socioeconomic rung they will end up on. I try not to project quite that far into the future. :001_smile:

[asta]

I thought this article hit the nail on the head:

 

What if a college education just isn't for everyone?

 

 

a

[anabelneri]

A couple years ago I read a book called The Fourth Turning that compared generations in American history. They argue that there have been ~80 year cycles throughout U.S. history that can be divided into 4 "turnings" (though the Civil War cycle was shorter), and that each generation falls into one of 4 types of generations depending on which turning they were born into. For those of us who are GenX (born 1960ish-1980ish; they call us the "Thirteenth Generation"), we're the 3rd generation of the cycle and basically won't ever gain the standards achieved by our parents. According to them, we're in the "Fourth Turning" now (the book was written before the 4th Turning started) which is always a time of massive upheaval. The last 4th Turning included the Great Depression and WWII; another was the Revolution.

 

At any rate, it's given me hope for my children. Just like in the last 4th Turning, we won't know how this one is going to end until it does. And my hope is that, like in the previous cycles, America will turn a major corner and society will make a dramatic shift that will have a positive impact on our children's lives.

 

I know it sounds weird, but it was pretty nicely grounded in history. It helped me make sense of a lot of American history. And I'm all for having hope for my children's future.

[*********]

I guess I have a very different perspective.

 

My parents pushed and pushed, telling me and all my sisters that we HAD to go to college. Of course, that's all they did; tell us. No help even filling out applications, let alone paying for it. My dad used to tell me all the time when I was in highschool that I needed to get a degree in a field that would be growing when I graduated, so that I could make a lot of money.

 

No talk about finding out what the Lord's will was for my life. That didn't ever enter the converstion; not even once. No direction to pray, to think about what talents and gifts the Lord had given me, and how I could apply those in my work for Him. And my parents would say they are commited, born-again, Conservative Christians!

 

I think it's because none of my parents (mom, dad, and stepmom) ever graduated college, and they all lived in poverty (my parents, to this day, live around the poverty level). All that mattered to my dad was that I found a way to make a good living and support myself; even if that meant getting into a field that I had no desire or gifting in.

 

I do NOT want that for my children. I want my boys to follow whatever path the Lord has for them. Whether that's attending college for years and years to get a medical degree, or if that's selling everything they have to move overseas and preach the gospel to a third world country. I don't care if they never make a lot of money. I just want them to use their lives to glorify God. :)

 

ETA: I never did get a degree. I got into GMI (now called Kettering University), one of the top engineering colleges in the world. I quite to work full time in the field I was studying; I didn't even need a degree. I made a very good living in my career, until I quite to be a stay at home mom. Which, as we all know, doesn't pay financially. But it's the most fulfilling job I've ever had. I have a feeling my dad is a little disappointed that I'm not a college degree having, carrer working woman. But I don't live my life in pursuit of money, or even in pursuit of my dad's approval. I only want to do what the Lord has for my life; even if that means being "just" a housewife for the rest of my life. :)

 

But that doesn't mean that I don't think college is a great choice for some people. I think all that matters is that you do what it is that the Lord put you here to do.

Edited March 18, 2010 by bethanyniez

[Julie in CA]

I grew up in economic poverty, though I didn't really realize that everyone didn't live that way. My dh and I have a lifestyle now that I never dreamed I'd live. Before you take that wrong, what I mean by that is that:

We have a nicer home, completely appropriate for our family size my most people's standards.

We have enough to eat *all* of the time.

We have access to medical care whenever we need it (at least for now :glare:).

We are able to occasionally take a trip somewhere, just for fun.

We have everything we need, and much of what we want (as long as we keep our "wants" under control).

 

I will be extremely glad if my dc achieve a level of prosperity that is anything close to what we have.

It's never been a goal of mine for my dc to have things better than we have.

Even the poverty years weren't so bad, and if that's what my dc end up with, well, it wasn't that bad most of the time. I want them to be happy, and real happiness doesn't come from our economic status unless that status is so low that you actually have to watch your children starve.