How many and which books would you add to this Ancients literature list?

[LanaTron]

My ds will be doing Lightning Lit's Early American course, spread out over a year. He'll be doing Ancients for history, and I don't want him to completely miss out on reading/studying some ancient lit as part of his history studies, so I'm thinking of doing a mini-GB study, too.

 

I know I want him to cover the Iliad and the Odyssey, and Oedipus the King, but what else? Or is that enough? He is not a fast reader, and I don't want to overload him, but I do want to provide work that is adequate for 9th grade.

 

Or maybe I should just scrap LL and do only Great Books? I just need it to be super simple for me (which is my draw to LL), as I have to work part-time and we have extra-curricular involvements, and 3 other dc younger than him, etc, etc.

 

Thanks for any input offered.

[Jane in NC]

Personally, I'd consider throwing in one of Aristophanes plays. They have their crude moments, the sort of the thing that really appeals to a 9th grade boy, if you know what I mean. We did The Frogs.

 

My son would vote Iliad over Odyssey if you had to choose.

 

Consider also Plato's Republic or at least part of it. Again, the argumentative 9th grader will find this appealing. If you cannot do it all, consider at least the cave analogy.

 

And have fun!

 

Jane

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm planning on doing an Ancients great books study. We're doing it TWTM way. It's a lot of work in and of itself, I wouldn't expect to do a second literature study with it. If you want to stick with the LL, I wouldn't try to do a great books study with it. If you want to have him just read the books, you could do that but I wouldn't call it a great books study, kwim?

[Ester Maria]

The minimum of the minimum of Ancient Greek literature, in my opinion, includes:

 

 

• One Homeric epic (preferably both, of course, but if I dealt with a slow reader and seriously considered cutting out on many things, I might even sacrifice one Homer for the sake of genre diversity covered; and unlike many on here, I actually recommend Odyssey if you decide to go with only one);
  
• Oedipus Rex (as an exemplary tragedy);
  
• Along with Oedipus Rex, excerpts from Aristotle's Poetics which deal with the theory of tragedy (if possible, with a commentary, because the text is quite... dense, but it's a must in my opinion);
  
• One of the more important plays by Euripides (such as Electra or Medea);
  
• either finishing thematically Oedipus (by reading Antigone and Oedipus at Colonus), either, if you're more into Philosophy, reading one of Plato's dialogues, or perhaps reading Theogony (Hesiod), which is also very important and interesting, or a comedy by Aristophanes - you pick;
  
• A mishmash of poetry (really, just to skim through Sappho and alike, not really to study - just to be aware of their existence), perhaps an excerpt from a Greek love novel
  

 

Also, theoretical texts and some periodization. Albin Lesky's History of Greek literature is an excellent source, for example, of course don't go through all of it as it will overwhelm you, but you can skim the parts about what you're studying.

[LanaTron]

Thanks for your thoughts, Mrs. Mungo. I guess I was just thinking of having him read the Ancient lit and use something like Spark Notes to get a little more out of it...so not really a GB study, then, right?

[LanaTron]

Thanks for the list. I don't know if I'm up to teaching anything that is "dense," but it gives me a few things to check out.

[Mrs Mungo]

Thanks for your thoughts, Mrs. Mungo. I guess I was just thinking of having him read the Ancient lit and use something like Spark Notes to get a little more out of it...so not really a GB study, then, right?

 

Not if you're looking to count a great books study as a separate course, as TWTM recommends. If you want to do it as part of your literature studies, I think it would be fine. :)

 

Here's our list for next year:

 

fiction:

Gilgamesh

Iliad

Agamemnon and Medea

Oedipus the King (maybe with Antigone)

The Birds

On Poetics

Aeneid

Metamorphoses

 

Non-fiction:

The Histories

The History of the Peloponnesian War

The Republic

Wars of the Jews

selections from The Lives of the Noble Greeks and Romans

[Lori D.]

Oog. I believe the LL is also pretty heavy on writing assignments, which may or may not go over well with a new high school student...

 

Also, the works covered in the LL are probably NOT the most appealing to a new high school student (at least, they wouldn't have been to our 2 DSs in 9th grade). Whether your DS loves or hates Moby Dick it is LOOONNGGG, and Melville uses a lot of allusions, big vocabulary, long/complex sentence structures, so the reading is slow-going. We're doing Amer. Lit this year (DSs are gr. 10 and 11), and we read the shorter "Billy Budd" by Melville, and while I thought DSs would enjoy the sailing/whaling aspect, they *really* despised Melville. (HOWEVER: other DSs of moms on this board *have* enjoyed Moby Dick.) Our DSs thought Scarlet Letter was "okay", but again, didn't like slogging through the older language/writing style. We only read excerpts from Frederick Douglass -- not enough for them to form an opinion; no experience with Ben Franklin.

 

 

However, if you're spreading the LL out over a year, yes, I DO think you could include several ancients. Plan on a good 8 weeks for the Iliad if you're doing a full translation version, and 6-7 weeks for the Odyssey. Oedipus Rex you can cover in 2 weeks. How about using those 2 remaining weeks for some Greek myths? (lots of blood and battles; and the characters in the myths are alluded to VERY frequently in loads of other literature).

 

Our DSs really enjoyed the heroes, the battles, the stories of the ancients we did in 8th/9th grades:

- Epic of Gilgamesh (abridged prose retelling)

- The Iliad (full translation)

- The Odyssey (full translation)

- Oedipus the King (full translation)

- Antigone (full translation)

- various Greek myths

- The Aeneid (abridged prose retelling)

- Till We Have Faces (CS Lewis' retelling of the Cupid & Psyche myth, set in an ancient Mesopotamian-like culture)

 

 

Check out the free online guides at:

- Glencoe (free online guides with worksheets/activities) = http://www.glencoe.com/sec/literature/litlibrary/

- Sparknotes (free online guides, mostly detailed analysis) = http://www.sparknotes.com

- Discovering Literature, FANTASTIC, meaty guide from Garlic Press Publishers with great teaching info on literary elements, discussion questions, chapter summaries, lots of great writing assignment ideas, resources, etc.

(for the Odyssey) = http://www.rainbowresource.com/product/Odyssey+Literature+Teaching+Guide/007442/1268871341-787314

 

 

BEST of luck, whatever you decide -- and welcome to high school! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Lori D.
added info

[LanaTron]

No, I'm not going count GB as a credit. I'd love to, but I just don't see it happening. Thanks for the list.

[LanaTron]

Thanks for the input, especially w/re: LL Early American. I think I'm at a point where I need to sit w/ ds and see what he wants to do w/ regards to history/lit.

[Lori D.]

Thanks for the input, especially w/re: LL Early American.

 

 

Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't negative about the LL programs. They are quite good! So please, DON'T make a decision on LL based on my one post -- definitely seek input from those who HAVE used that particular LL program!

 

 

 

I think I'm at a point where I need to sit w/ ds and see what he wants to do w/ regards to history/lit.

 

 

This is a really good idea. At this stage, I would suggest showing him what kinds of credits are required, and then give DS 2 or 3 options of how the two of you can achieve those credits. For example, I gave DSs the option of what order they wanted to do the history in; we did the ancient world the first year, 20th century world the next. This year we decided to do American History because it's a requirement, so that would give us "wiggle room" next year of dropping history if we have to in order to complete other required classes.

 

I also got older DS's input for that 20th century history year on literature; we came up with the plan of making our own lit: "Worldviews in Sci-Fi and Gothic Lit." DS was really interested in worldview, and I really didn't want to have to do all the depressing/existential lit. to match. I realized that the bulk of classic sci-fi was written in the 20th century and very often deals with themes of worldview, so it was a perfect match and we LOVED our lit that year!

 

 

Enjoy planning and going through your homeschooling together! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Lori D.]

No, I'm not going count GB as a credit. I'd love to, but I just don't see it happening. Thanks for the list.

 

You may not want to count that solo reading as a Great Books credit, but it is still time spent reading/learning, so definitely include it as hours toward your English credit! Along with the 1-semester LL program, that will *definitely* earn you the literature portion of a 1 credit English course!

[LanaTron]

Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't negative about the LL programs. They are quite good! So please, DON'T make a decision on LL based on my one post -- definitely seek input from those who HAVE used that particular LL program!

 

Ds is using LL7 this year, and he is doing very well with it, and actually enjoying it, even the writing assignments. That is one of the big reasons why I want to keep using LL! In retrospect, I could have put him right into LL8 this year, even not having done LL7...but I think he'll do okay in the one I'm considering for next year.

 

 

"Worldviews in Sci-Fi and Gothic Lit." DS was really interested in worldview, and I really didn't want to have to do all the depressing/existential lit. to match. I realized that the bulk of classic sci-fi was written in the 20th century and very often deals with themes of worldview, so it was a perfect match and we LOVED our lit that year!

 

Sounds like fun! I don't know that he'll be so forward with what he's interested in, because he's pretty content to let me make the schooling decisions...but he may surprise me. :tongue_smilie:

 

Thanks again.

[LanaTron]

Oh, I certainly would count it for credit as part of either English or History, and I'm sure he'd make sure of it, too.

[Lori D.]

Ds is using LL7 this year, and he is doing very well with it, and actually enjoying it, even the writing assignments. That is one of the big reasons why I want to keep using LL!

 

 

We loved the LL7 and LL8, too. Older son used LL8 in grade 8. Younger DS used LL7 in gr. 7, and LL8 in grade 9 as the lit. portion of his English credit. So if you wanted to use LL8 in grade 9, it is very do-able because of the increased amount of works you cover (twelve units in LL8 compared to eight units in LL7), and a little jump up in the maturity of themes in some of the works (A Christmas Carol, A Day of Pleasure, To Kill a Mockingbird, short stories "Wakefield" and "A Crazy Tale"). In between the two LLs, for younger DS's gr. 8, we used Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings.

 

If you like LL7, you will most likely really like LLftLotR, too. It is a year-long study of the 3 books of the Lord of the Rings trilogy with great notes and discussion questions for every chapter with lots of literary terms and themes defined and discussed, plus 12 units of terrific tangential material which includes analysis of portions of Beowulf and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. While some people like to save this study to go along with their medieval Great Books, we did it the same year we did our ancients Great Books and it was a great fit, as it had a unit on the conventions of epics, and had some detailed discussion on The Iliad and The Odyssey. LLftLotR was the Lit. portion of our English credit, and our ancient Great Books was an elective credit that year.

 

Perhaps LLftLotR might be a fun secondary lit. to go along with the Early American LL??

Or stick with LL and do LL8 for your lit. next year and save Early American LL for when you do American History?

Or just go with some ripping great ancient epics and myths for your literature to go with your ancient history?

Just some suggestions! ;) Warmly, Lori D.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Lori D.
added info

[LanaTron]

I had actually thought of doing LL8 with him next year...dd is one grade level behind him, so currently in 7th, but doing LL7 with him, and it sure makes things simple on me to do one lit with both of them. I only backed away from doing LL8 because someone else on this board suggested going ahead and doing one of the high school levels.

 

I'd forgotten about the LotR study...hmmm...

 

Thank you so much for your help. I have a much clearer picture of the different options that can work for us.