Are we all crazy? :) How can a kid get everything done in HS homeschool??

[titianmom]

As many of us here, I'm looking at curriculum and making purchases. Many of the great programs we all use or wanna use take 1-3 hrs each. So let's see...

 

Science: 1-3 hrs a day

Math: 1-2 hrs a day

History program 1-3 hrs a day

Lit and English - Oh, 45- 1hr a day

Spanish - hr a day...

Maybe some vocab on the side

1 elective course, maybe...I have one but I'm wondering if we'll ever have time to do it. Sheesh.

 

So all of you experienced HS homeschooling parents, how do you do all of this all week long and still have a life? And keep your kids from hating you for all eternity?

 

Kim

[Susan C.]

Hi Kim,

Well, there isn't much of a life after high school studies.... at least not at my house. The kids in school don't have much time either. I feel you get more free time with school at home because you can shuffle things around, get up very early and get it done if there is something in the afternoon, or start at lunch if you have something in the morning (on occasion, not every day!). I had to mourn the passing of reading cool books on the couch, field trips, etc. that we homeschoolers do with the younger ones!

 

I think some of your times are too long. Science for us is 1-2 hours, one hour online 3x a week, another doing the work. Math is 1 1/2 to 2 hours (45 min. dvd), history about an hour, Spanish an hour (sometimes I take a day or two out a week), English 1 1/2 to 2 hours (I'm working on shortening that). You can do some subjects four days a week so you can shuffle them around to shorten your day as well.

 

With two (one is in college) I have found that early start times work best. If they start at 7:30, there are days they have been finished at 4-5 pm (not all, though). If we started at 10 am, then they still were doing school at bedtime.

 

Early high school was rough getting them up to speed to all of the work, but they have worked it out. It is great prep for college (and life). You don't want to go easy, and then have them go to college and not be used to being able to get a lot of work done.

 

Do pick some curriculum that runs easily, if you want to hide when you see it, it may not be for you :) If you don't like it once, you won't like it 180 times! LOL

[titianmom]

But the PS kids in HS don't do that much work during the day in school. They all have so many other extra-curricular activities to do, etc. (But it shows in the test results, too? Altho some kids do just fine.) I can guarantee that I never had that kind of sched when I was in HS in the PS system.

 

That's the problem. I live on the moon...er, WV, and we're the only HS family at our church and my daughter is constantly looking at them and asking why they don't have to work as much as she does.

 

To get up at 7:30 and work until dinner at 6 pm. is nuts IMHO. No kid is going to do that day in and day out without having a major cow.

And, did I mention that my husband insists that she practice her piano every day and take lessons every week? There goes piano lessons and church during the week, then. ??

 

My husband even would never go for that and he'd have me committed for trying!

 

I have to believe that people are not doing everything in their curriculum. That's the only way they are getting this done, by skimping here and there and skipping stuff during the year.

 

I'm sick with arthritis and my daughter doesn't have that kind of drive, even if I did try to get it all done. I'm really concerned about this, as you can see. There's only so many hours in a day.

 

Somebody calm me down, ha! Tell me how you manage a realistic schedule, please!

 

Kim

 

PS: Science, etc: I'm going by the times given by the curriculum folks. I'm not making these numbers up. In elementary school you only had to do Sci on certain days and History on certain days to spread the work. But HS they say you do it every day. For her physical sci along they suggest 4-8 hrs a week, average being around 6. No PS kids spends 6 hrs a week in Science class that I'm aware of.

 

It's as if each author thinks their subj is the most important and it's all a student should really spend their time working on, ha!

[Guest]

I have read a number of books -- the most recent one called "Stressed Out Girls" -- which say that the number one complaint of high school kids (and increasingly, middle schoolers as well) is complete and utter exhaustion. They are so tired that their brain functions actually begin to be compromised, short term memory suffers, and in general they operate in a similar manner to someone who has had a few alcoholic drinks. To my mind this is not the path to a well-educated mind.

 

While there are a number of kids, a surprising number really, who seem to thrive on demanding schedules and continual demands for written output, many more would benefit from slowing down, having time to follow their interests or questions, find mentors, volunteer or do work-studies, learn how to do all the things they'll need to know once they move out and have to manage independently (I don't mean academics). And while many kids do fine with a parent who sets out assignments, gives grades, and demands scheduled production, others -- like my daughter -- need to feel that education is a cooperative enterprise in which each participant has a voice in setting goals, choosing materials, and mapping out ways to achieve those goals.

 

I truly think there are better ways to become engaged with and knowledgeable about the world without spending the equivalent of a full-time job on academics alone. I also think that academic knowledge benefits greatly from perspectives brought to bear from different aspects of life out there, and from a generous amount of downtime in which to process what they are learning. The kids who cram it in day after day aren't going to retain it all, nor will they be able to weight its worth for themselves if there is nothing to put on the other side of the imaginary balance scale.

[newbie]

I truly think there will be no time til after high school. Three more years.

 

We do not even have weekends anymore. People think I am crazy , because thats all that is done here, school , school and more school.

 

They are going to take me away , ha , ha, hee, hee ho ho to the funny farm.

 

Can you tell its been a fun high school day.

[JennW in SoCal]

More time spent on a subject doesn't necessarily mean better or more rigorous or more classical. Curriculum companies are trying to sell programs so they make their programs sound as if their standards are higher and better than their competition. They are no different from your local school in that they don't have a vested interest in how your child best learns. You are homeschooling your child, you get to decide what that should look like.

 

So. Read rhetoric section of the Well Trained Mind, keeping in mind that the recommended times for each subject in there are just recommendations. Then spend some time reading past threads on this board to get a feel for the broad spectrum of homeschooling here. There are families that spend 8 hours a day on academics. Then there are kids, like the one I graduated last year, who spent about 4 hours on academics because he was spending 20 or more hours each week on projects. Life sometimes interrupts the best and most rigorous intentions, growth spurts turn our bright kids into brain dead zombies and they don't produce as much as we expect. And yet, that final goal is always in sight and our kids keep working towards it with support, guidance, patience and love from us.

 

So, yes, high school is a lot of work and can be time consuming, but you get to shape what it looks like so your child can have time to pursue interests and sometimes even simply day dream.

[Cedarmom]

But the PS kids in HS don't do that much work during the day in school.

I have to believe that people are not doing everything in their curriculum. That's the only way they are getting this done, by skimping here and there and skipping stuff during the year.

 

 

PS: Science, etc: I'm going by the times given by the curriculum folks. I'm not making these numbers up. In elementary school you only had to do Sci on certain days and History on certain days to spread the work. But HS they say you do it every day. For her physical sci along they suggest 4-8 hrs a week, average being around 6. No PS kids spends 6 hrs a week in Science class that I'm aware of.

 

It's as if each author thinks their subj is the most important and it's all a student should really spend their time working on, ha!

 

I think your statement about skipping stuff and skimping is very accurate. Most schools don't do everything in the book. The curriculim is a guide, not the law. I think an hour a day or science is plenty. Maybe an hour and a half. Are there some things you could cut out? What about moving slower and getting less done. Try taking 2 years for the science instead of one. I combined literature and history(using Omnibus) that helped. I think 6-7 hours a day, plus some weekend work is a good load. Their is more work in high school. But I also wanted my son to have time to develop his interests. I tried to work our schedule so that if he worked hard he could start the day at 8:30 and be done by 4:00. We did do some history by listening to Teaching Company during lunch.

[jld]

Just do what you and she are comfortable with. It really doesn't matter what other people are doing. They do what is best for their families; you do what is best for yours. Enjoy the freedom!

[choirfarm]

But the PS kids in HS don't do that much work during the day in school. They all have so many other extra-curricular activities to do, etc. (But it shows in the test results, too? Altho some kids do just fine.) I can guarantee that I never had that kind of sched when I was in HS in the PS system.

 

That's the problem. I live on the moon...er, WV, and we're the only HS family at our church and my daughter is constantly looking at them and asking why they don't have to work as much as she does.

 

To get up at 7:30 and work until dinner at 6 pm. is nuts IMHO. No kid is going to do that day in and day out without having a major cow.

And, did I mention that my husband insists that she practice her piano every day and take lessons every week? There goes piano lessons and church during the week, then. ??

 

My husband even would never go for that and he'd have me committed for trying!

 

I have to believe that people are not doing everything in their curriculum. That's the only way they are getting this done, by skimping here and there and skipping stuff during the year.

 

I'm sick with arthritis and my daughter doesn't have that kind of drive, even if I did try to get it all done. I'm really concerned about this, as you can see. There's only so many hours in a day.

 

Somebody calm me down, ha! Tell me how you manage a realistic schedule, please!

 

Kim

 

PS: Science, etc: I'm going by the times given by the curriculum folks. I'm not making these numbers up. In elementary school you only had to do Sci on certain days and History on certain days to spread the work. But HS they say you do it every day. For her physical sci along they suggest 4-8 hrs a week, average being around 6. No PS kids spends 6 hrs a week in Science class that I'm aware of.

 

It's as if each author thinks their subj is the most important and it's all a student should really spend their time working on, ha!

 

Well your public high school must do much less than mine if they aren't working that hard OR the children are not in honors. SO much of it depends on the child and the classes he or she takes. I only have a freshman, but let me tell you what my friends do with their freshman. They are in school from 8 to 3, then they have drill team until 5 or so and then she is going to driver's ed right now from 6-7. Then her child works on homework until 10 or so. I know in school I took all honors and AP classes and i had several hours of homework a night as well as show choir rehearsals and play rehearsals. My life was busy. busy. busy.

 

Kim, I can relate to what you are saying. i have basically given up my life for school at this point. I have a 9th grader, 7th grader and 2nd grader. I live on 50 acres out "on the moon" The boys take piano and my daughter violin. I just finished a year of intensive vision therapy where I took my daughter to a neigboring town for a little over a year. (But boy, was it worth it. My daughter went from stumbling over The cat is in a hat to begging me to go to the library and checking out 10 library books yesterday and reading several of them in the evening. It is amazing!!!)

 

My 9th grade boys spends a lot of time on school, but he is also very academic and driven. I can tell you right now that unless he changes drastically my other boy will not. But he also might go to the ps. He gets up at 7 ish and will do Wii Fit. At 8 he starts his Chalkdust Geometry and works on it for an hour or two. He decides. Most days he does a lesson, but yesterday it was really hard and he stopped. I let him decide. Then he works on Apologia Chemistry for an hour or so. He does experiments for a couple of hours around every other Thursday afternoon with his dad and they often go over things on the weekends or in the evenings since I don't keep up with this and don't understand it. Then we do Tapestry of Grace year 3. He does the history, geography, church history and literature component. ( We don't do the fine arts or government component.) By then it is lunch time and right now he goes outside and shoots baskets and such. Many days we watch documentaries for lunch. In the afternoon he does SOS spanish for 30 minutes or so. He is finishing up Intermediate Logic. He does Spanish and Logic three times a week. He is often working on TOG stuff and writing in the afternoon as well. Oh yes, he is doing ANalytical Grammar and Vocabulit as part of English. He normally finishes up around 4 or 5 or so. But he doesn't have any homework.:)

 

What I cannot get used to is how I am so spread out and prep takes so long. I mean on Monday, I discussed TOG week 27 and reviewed both boys for their unit test. I gave and graded the Huck Finn Test to my 7th grader, spent an hour discussing Red Badge of Courage with my 9th grader. I went over the Apologia General study guide with my 7th grader. I had a grammar discussion with my 7th grader. Went over prealgebra with my 7th grader all the while teaching my 2nd grader who I have to do every subject while sitting by her. In the late afternoon I'm cooking dinner, working out in the garden, grading math, finished up pre-reading the Invisible Man and started Crime and Punishment. i graded Analytical Grammar.

 

It is just nuts and I am the only homeschooler in my church as well, but my son doesn't have the activities and homework that the girls in his youth group do. He is a homebody and would much rather sit in his room and do school. As I said, my 7th grader has actually improved a lot as far as the amount he does, but he is much more social. I'm looking at the 4h club to do debate for him, but it would be driving a lot. I just don't know.

 

 

Next year my 10th grader won't be any less focused on academics with TOG year 4 rhetoric level, Physics, Statistics AP, and SOS Spanish. He will do driver's ed as well. I REALLY want him to do some kind of outside volunteering like working at the church one afternoon a week to help them with their computer stuff or something, but we'll see. He would really just like to stay home in his "cave." GRR. I can already tell you that my daughter won't be nearly as academic and will be balancing her social life and making her choose activities.

 

Nan told me it depends on your goals. Well for my oldest for sure, he has academic goals so he spends a lot of time on academics. I want him to do well in college. I don't know what my goal is for my 7th grader... right now us just keeping a relationship would be good.;) You do what is best for your child.

 

Christine

[Jane in NC]

Kim,

 

A consideration that you need to make is not just the curriculum itself but your student's personal interests. Not all kids are going to have the personality to spend two to three hours daily on science, but some will choose to do this.

 

Perhaps by following suggestions in TWTM we were less bound by rigidity. A weekly history assignment, for example, usually involved two or three lectures from The Teaching Company, reading Spielvogel, working on a timeline and/or context page, and often reading some related Great Book. If this took over an hour a day, it was because my son could not get his nose out of Thucydides or a book on Agincourt.

 

Bear in mind that the best laid plans may not work for your student. It had been my intention for my son to have four years of Latin and four years of French in high school. Push came to shove with the demands of community college courses so he finishes with four years of Latin and two and a half years of French. It was all we could do.

 

Don't forget: there is also the weekend. I know sometimes parents object to this, but as a high school student I spent many Saturdays in a large, urban public library, doing research and writing papers. So did my husband. We figure if weekend work was typical of our own high school experiences, why should it not be the same for our son?

 

Developing outside interests, doing hands on work and volunteering are also important to us. One thing that my son has been doing for several years is volunteering with a shorebird/raptor rehabilitator. When she needs an assistant for a necropsy, for example, he volunteered. As far as I was concerned, this served two purposes: biology lab and community service. We have found many ways to incorporate life with school so that my son is not just staring at text books eight hours a day.

 

I'll be honest: our school year lasts more than 180 days. June is catch up time to finish those things which were not finished previously. July and early August were vacation. Mid-August we started it all over. Some parents teach year round to complete everything. And while this may sound extreme, they prefer having reasonable bedtimes during the school year, as opposed to staying up until midnight as students in demanding academic programs (public or private) often do. (Yes, we know students in public school who apparently do little school work. But they are not applying to selective or highly selective colleges. That is their choice.)

Edited March 17, 2010 by Jane in NC
typo

[FaithManor]

DD graduated from homeschool last year. She worked usually from about 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. maybe a little longer if she was studying for a difficult test.

She didn't have a big social life during the week. She would see friends on the weekend, shoot some pool with youth at the church rec-room, see a movie or something. She did a lot of volunteering in church on Sundays in music and working with children. But during the week, the entire focus was school work - well, other than piano lessons. In the evenings, she would eat dinner with us and relax with the family. We play a lot of board games and watch family movies at night.

 

She always considered herself lucky. Her P.S. friends would be at school and working before she was ever eating breakfast (a lot of A.P. classes in our area are zero hour - 7-8 a.m.), in school until 3:00, have two - four hours of homework or more, and most tried to play a sport or have some other outlet. Those that played sports did their homework on the bus (usually meaning a drop in grades during basketball season), rarely went to bed before midnight or 1:00 a.m. in order to get everything complete and were up by 6. I saw nothing but chronically sleep deprived teens! Most ate very poorly and never had a meal at the table with their family because if they weren't at sports practice or a game, they were doing homework and eating junk food on the bus or in their rooms. I wasn't impressed with their diets, sleep habits, or lack of family life, but they were just trying to fit it all in and deal with the demands.

 

Its okay for your hs.ed high schooler to work a long day. This is preparation for college and life in the adult work world. At 18, they need to be prepared to work hard and to make choices between getting something done and having a social life. They also need to learn their limits and know when they HAVE to have a break.

 

As for my life, yep it was pretty dedicated to getting DD through high school. But, it wasn't that bad. We'd homeschooled for so long that DD was a really great independent worker and she had learned how to learn so my direct teaching was actually somewhat limited. Mostly I was available to answer questions here or there, consult on writing assignments - give feedback, grade work and enter that into my gradebook, and help her stay on track to get this or that done by the deadline. It wasn't intensive. Its just that a kid with a trig or chemistry question can't wait until tomorrow to be helped or they've snowballed on their schedule and you have to stay steady with it in case they get sick and need a few days off - a luxury that P.S. kids don't have. There isn't as much flexibility as there was in previous years. So, I kept myself to home from 8-3 as much as possible and kept our evening committments reasonable. Not that we didn't have a social life, we just didn't have a busy social life.

 

Ds1, 2, & 3 are all stair steps (12-18 months between), so in 18 months I'll have another high schooler again along with a 6th and 8th grader. By the time the youngest is beginning high school, I'll have a senior and a junior. Yikes, years of transcripts and financial aid forms. UGH! - that was the part that I did not enjoy.

 

I know it looks like a lot on paper. But, you'll make it through!

Faith

[Faithr]

I've only glanced over this thread but what about credit hours? You need to work 120 hours on a subject to earn a Carnegie unit. I use this to determine whether my child has done enough work on a subject. Or the other way to determine credit is to finish a textbook.

 

My kids actually have gone way over the Carnegie Unit requirements for certain subjects. For instance they have attended a homeschool Biology class that met for 2 hours, 2x a week. Plus at least once a month there were labs/fieldtrips which were also 2 hours long. Then, the homework/study for tests took at least 2 or three hours a week at home. This was all for 1.5 credits

 

For Latin we spend at least 5 hours a week on it and often 6. Even with this going over the basic requirement for a credit hour, we still have free time!

 

We often very naturally do subjects in blocks of time. For instance the front end of the week is heavily loaded with Latin! The end of the week tends to be more literature and history. Also we do work over the weekends.

 

And teens like to stay up and work, or at least mine do. So stuff like writing and reading often gets done starting around 9 o'clock p.m.

 

You are busy but there still is time to pursue other interests. It is very doable.

[G5052]

My friends with older kids warned me about this stage. In general, we only go out for piano during the week, otherwise we stay at home and do school. My friends with public/private school kids all say that there is 2 or more hours of homework every night for 7th and up, with homework on the weekend for high school being the norm. At least we usually finish by dinner, and the only time they do weekend work is when they get behind reading a novel for school.

[Renee in NC]

PS: Science, etc: I'm going by the times given by the curriculum folks. I'm not making these numbers up. In elementary school you only had to do Sci on certain days and History on certain days to spread the work. But HS they say you do it every day. For her physical sci along they suggest 4-8 hrs a week, average being around 6. No PS kids spends 6 hrs a week in Science class that I'm aware of.

 

My ds spends 50 minutes 5 times a week in his Chemistry class and another (at least) 1-3 hours a week doing homework and studying. He easily spends 6 hours a week on Science.

 

His overall schedule has him with 6 classes 50 minutes per day 5 days a week, so 25 hours per week in class. He also has 2-3 hours of homework every night and another 2-3 hours on weekends. That is 37 hours total at a minimum. Even allowing for some wasted time in class, he is still working pretty hard at school. I don't think7-8 hours a day is unreasonable for an academic track teen.

[FaithManor]

In regards to the Hours needed to earn a carnegie unit. I didn't count credits by hours and I don't know any homeschooler in our area who does. This punishes a child who can work quickly and doesn't need to spend 2-3 hours a day doing the work.

 

While the local high schools can say that class met for ex-hours, they can't dictate how long a student spends on assignments. So, they are awarding credits based on the fact that they hold class 180 days a year. At an hour per day, that's 180 hours. Teachers may assign homework, but they have no idea how long it will take each individual student to get it done.

 

If the child completes the curriculum and gets the grade, he/she earns the credit. I wouldn't worry about the actual number of hours spent on the work as long as the work is appropriate high school level curriculum.

 

In all actuality, DD probably spent more "time" on certain subjects than her friends and she certainly did more work. Our local schools very rarely get more than half, half is average, of any textbook done and yet hand out credits like water. The colleges know this but can't do anything about it. They are required by law to accept the transcripts of public schools at face value. This is one reason that homeschooled and privately schooled kids in our area are highly sought after. Their credits mean more because they have usually actually completed an entire school year's worth of work.

 

Faith

[lllll]

..

[Chris in VA]

For her physical sci along they suggest 4-8 hrs a week, average being around 6. No PS kids spends 6 hrs a week in Science class that I'm aware of.

 

Well, actually, ds has a human anatomy/physiology class at the high school--they block schedule; every other day he has class for roughly 90 minutes, which averages out to about 4 hours a week, not counting homework/projects, which usually run about an extra two hours a week. :D

 

One thing to consider is that it takes time to do high school--well, duh--:lol:

What I mean is, it takes time to soak in those academics and get to the point where you can truly learn the material, because a lot of it builds on itself--esp math and science, but certainly foreign language, lit and history. It takes time to develop enough familiarity with history, for example, so that you can see connections and form opinions that you can then pull examples from history and other areas, to defend/justify. Discussion, really meaty discussion, cannot be rushed. Rhetoric stage is all about having had enough backround that you can go beyond mere facts and get to The Great Conversation. You may not be able to say much at 16 or 17 or 18, certainly not as much as you will be able to say with more life experience, but you can say something, and learn to say it well.

 

Giving our kids time to go thru a rigorous course of study is a real gift, imo. Of course, you are completely correct, again, imo, that one learns from life--and that family, recreation, rest--all are important, and all must be kept in balance. But the balance is different than in logic or grammar stage. High school and college are the most academically heavy times in one's life, I think. It's ok to give kids time to get really grounded in that.

 

I hope that makes sense.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Chris in VA

[Robin in DFW]

realistically...probably a little more than half the time spent in school is actually academic. So if kids are in school for 7 hours a day, about 4 hours of hard academics are accomplished. The rest is homework.

 

Like I said, these numbers come straight from the horses' mouths.

 

So, add in a couple hours of homework and---voila---you have your 6 hours of what is OUR school day.

[LanaTron]

Where's the like button? I so agree, KarenAnne. For our homeschool, balance is the name of the game.

[Jean in Wisc]

After much angst, I decided that we would spend about 1 hour per day per class--or finish a textbook--for the high school classes. I also spend 30 to 60 minutes with each of them (more or less) to go over work together. That gives us about 7 hours of school each day. Nope, we don't get as many books read and our classes do not go in depth as deeply or cover as much as many folks here, but my college aged dd in public relations is still getting 4.0 and my guy in engineering is somewhere between a 4.0 and a 3.0. We seem to have done O.K.

 

We live on a farm. When my dh took a job off the farm, my elder son did all the farm chores before, during, and after school his sophomore and junior high school years. My daughter ran a congressional campaign for our county her junior year. My youngest is the cadet commander of a Civil Air Patrol squadron. These responsibilities have taught my children more than another 5 hours of school work could ever have done.

 

You have 24 hours in a day. It is your choice how to use them. If you want to do 10 hours of school, there is nothing wrong with that if you can make it work. I don't see that it is mandatory, though. You're the mom. Your choice.

 

Jean

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

My entire "philosophy" of high school has changed during this year.

 

Without going into the whole LONG story.... My senior has been too sick to really "do school" much this year at all. She is getting in enough for me to "call it a credit" and get her graduated.

 

 

Is she "educated"? YES! She can read, write, cipher and THINK for herself. She knows something about all of history, a good bit of science, a lot about art and music. She can write well and express herself wonderfully in words. She is a well rounded educated young woman that will do well in life.

 

A friend of mine with a son that is a senior and very involved in speech /debate told me yesterday. "You really need to have your 12th grade credits almost finished by 11th grade because 12th grade is too busy." I would revise that a bit by saying, "I'm glad she had most of her credits done by 11th grade because she's been too sick in 12th to concentrate on hard subjects."

 

We can NOT teach it ALL. Looking back now I see the most important things to teach are thinking, basic writing, and real life math skills. Use all the subject areas to teach thinking and basic writing. Oh one more thing... be well read... read A LOT of literature. You do not have to discuss each book. Or write an essay with each reading.

 

And, don't be afraid to use some textbooks or simple workbooks to cover some of the credits or subjects. You probably will not want to use Alpha Omega for everything, but for one subject per year it can be a nice simple change of pace and a way to cover some material.

 

Because of my dd's illness, we sort of "block scheduled" this year. She basically did 3 subjects in the fall and is completing 3 subjects now. It has worked SO WELL that I'm going to block schedule everyone's subjects for next year.

 

Hope this helps.

[titianmom]

I was going to respond individually but I'd be here all day doing this and we are in school and all. :D

 

I don't disagree that there are a few kids in AP courses in HS that have extended school responsibilities, but they're the minority and we don't know any of these kinds of kids around here. The drop out rate is 50% and at any time of the day you'll find pregnant teens walking around in the malls around here. Lots of broken families. We'd have to go with a decent private school if we went the brick and mortar route. (So I consider that argument really mute in this area, actually.)

 

Having said that, I was in college prep courses in HS and we didn't do extended hrs. I did homework in the evenings but not *that* much. And I lived....had a decent job and made it thru college with A's.

 

And to the moms who have several children and are constantly on the go teaching, grading, running them here and there: I couldn't do that now. I could never handle that kind of load; no way. Esp with the arthritis. I take pain killers every 6 hrs and something that helps me sleep at night but doesn't always work. I average about 4-5 hrs a night for sleep.

 

But, I'm up every a.m. taking care of school. Mine whines now that I give her too much to do. She's really bright and has a ton of potential, but her creativity is limited to figuring out ways to get out of responsibilities. She's 13. Typical from what I hear from most parents.

 

Ah! If only she would use her talent for good instead of evil! :lol:

 

I've always enjoyed homeschooling, BTW. Elementary school was great and even parts of Middle school was great and we both have enjoyed it. But that was because she listened and wanted to learn.

 

That has changed significantly. She gave me grief this a.m.; I got her up at 7:30 and you would think I cut her arm off. (Same thing happens at 8:30 or whenever I try to get her up before, say, 11 a.m.) This all started this past year when puberty hit. Whew. She's very strong willed. I hope it gets better, cuz HS isn't the 3rd grade.

 

Kim

PS:

 

Thanks for letting me vent. I actually feel better about this! :mellow: I'm willing to keep plugging along. But we will not be in school constantly with no life outside of school. I believe in balance, myself.

 

I forgot that if it doesn't work out, the private schools are right down the road. Let her try to throw a fit or tell them "no" and see how long it lasts!

 

I think sometimes it's just she is with me all the time and she thinks other adults wouldn't do this to her. She's a bit delusional, bless her. I think just one reality check with another adult would clear up a *lot* of ills.

 

Oh, and here in WV the churches and schools empty to go hunting, too.

[emubird]

After much angst, I decided that we would spend about 1 hour per day per class--or finish a textbook--for the high school classes. I also spend 30 to 60 minutes with each of them (more or less) to go over work together. That gives us about 7 hours of school each day. Nope, we don't get as many books read and our classes do not go in depth as deeply or cover as much as many folks here, but my college aged dd in public relations is still getting 4.0 and my guy in engineering is somewhere between a 4.0 and a 3.0. We seem to have done O.K.

Jean

 

This has also been our experience. We just don't do as much. We decide on those things that are most important to us. We make time to do those. The others may or may not get done. We don't stress about it.

 

A lot of things don't really need the time put into them that the curricula say they do. Some need a lot more. And kids need the down time to process things in their own heads. Sleep is more important than a few more hours of school work.

 

Although this wasn't what I decided we really needed to do, what gone done in the academics (for my eldest) was: math through calculus, lots of reading on lots of different subjects, an AP US history test, some ancient history, a smattering of world history (mostly through movies, but also through a lot of reading), biology, chemistry, a moderate amount of Spanish, and a bit of French and Latin. She did not write NEARLY as much as I wanted her to. I thought that was our big, big failing. We also didn't get to physics as a home course. We could have done it easily (as I just about have a physics major -- in all but the actual diploma), but she just didn't have the time.

 

She also did a lot of art, music, drama, and sports. This took up so much time that it forced her to cut back on the academics. Which was a good thing. Not only did she get to do things she wanted to do, that she may not have time for later in life, it also taught her a lot about getting up in front of a group and presenting herself well.

 

She's now a senior in high school and doesn't do much of anything academically with me anymore except some reading and discussion and history. She's taking college classes instead. She's doing physics at the college level without having had any high school physics. She has the highest grade in the class. (This is calculus based physics for engineers and physics majors.)

 

She hardly wrote in her high school years, but when she finally had to sit down and do it, it turned out she wrote pretty well. At least, she got comments back to that effect from the scholarship essays she had to write. I suspect it was all the reading and talking we did. We discussed A LOT.

 

Colleges really want her, so it worked out ok, despite me never thinking she was doing enough. I was particularly stressed about the writing. With my next daughter, I'm approaching this in a different way. If she can write various formats of papers, I leave it at that. I'm not going to have her practice it over and over if she's got it down, no matter what curricula tell us she should be doing. This is, in the end, what we ended up doing with my elder daughter, but we stressed a lot more about how she wasn't doing enough.

[Susan C.]

Yes, I'm the one that said early..... but my dd is 16. 9th grade and the beginning of 10th, ugh, awful.... teens have their phases. Their clocks reset (supposedly) and they can't go to bed early. I can work around that by the early mornings (it takes that early morning so my teen can go to sleep at a decent time, if she sleeps in, then she can't go to sleep until very late... There are times when I let her sleep in a little because its useless to get school work done when they are in a coma :)

[emubird]

 

That has changed significantly. She gave me grief this a.m.; I got her up at 7:30 and you would think I cut her arm off. (Same thing happens at 8:30 or whenever I try to get her up before, say, 11 a.m.)

 

I've given up on getting mine up early. My kids seem to need 11-12 hours sleep a night. They get a lot more done during the day if they get the sleep they need, so I've given up fighting it. It's counterproductive. I've adjusted by getting all my work done before noon.

 

They really have tried to get to sleep earlier. They can go to bed earlier -- but they just don't go to sleep. I think they got my husband's night owl gene coupled with my needing lots of sleep gene.

 

I think the average amount of sleep a teen needs is somewhere around 9 hours. As we get older we need less, so we don't understand why our teens are being "lazy". But if my kids have a time of day when they can work better, if they do better with more sleep, if we're homeschooling and can take advantage of moving our schedule around, why not do it?

 

My SIL is appalled by this. She's glad she went to school for so many years because it "taught" her how to get out of bed for work. This took 13 years of schooling? My older daughter can get herself to her 8 AM class when she needs to -- after sleeping in almost every morning for 10 straight years.

 

This is one of the major reasons we started homeschooling in the first place. The school she was in the first couple years started at 7:30AM. And yet, despite getting dragged out of bed every morning for those two years, despite getting in to bed early, she never did manage to fall asleep early. Her clock just doesn't work that way. She was constantly sleep deprived, to the point where she was behaving irrationally. Her teacher thought she needed to be on medication...

[titianmom]

One thing to consider is that it takes time to do high school--well, duh--:lol:

 

....But the balance is different than in logic or grammar stage. High school and college are the most academically heavy times in one's life, I think. It's ok to give kids time to get really grounded in that.

 

I hope that makes sense.

 

 

I never worked in college as hard as some of the folks here work their kids in HS! No lie! I went to the Univ of MD and majored in Computer and Info Sci and minored in History. It's not *that* bad of a school, is it? LOL!

 

Kim

[Storm Bay]

 

A consideration that you need to make is not just the curriculum itself but your student's personal interests. Not all kids are going to have the personality to spend two to three hours daily on science, but some will choose to do this.

 

Agreed. High school is the time to begin to specialize while at the same time accruing what your dc needs for future plans and meet any legal requirements posed by your state. I have tailored my dd's course selection to this. She spends a great deal more time on math, science, English, phys ed and history than on logic or art. German is in the middle. Phys ed is where she burns a lot of stress; she is one of those people who require very hard workouts in order to feel right (my sister is like this, and she has a very different personality than my dd.) While we wanted to do all 19 chapters of Conceptual Chemistry (college level) we did the poster course of 12 chapters along with the lectures & labs and she did spend a lot of time on it.

 

 

Bear in mind that the best laid plans may not work for your student. It had been my intention for my son to have four years of Latin and four years of French in high school.

 

We've found this just in our Freshman year. Dd wanted to do Latin and German, but it was too much for her with everything else she does.

 

Don't forget: there is also the weekend. I know sometimes parents object to this, but as a high school student I spent many Saturdays in a large, urban public library, doing research and writing papers.

 

Developing outside interests, doing hands on work and volunteering are also important to us.

 

I'll be honest: our school year lasts more than 180 days. June is catch up time to finish those things which were not finished previously. July and early August were vacation. Mid-August we started it all over. Some parents teach year round to complete everything.

 

In our house, July is catch up.

 

The honours classes at our local high school are demanding, but the OP is right in that they are the minority, but that's always been the case with academics. There are three tracks there, honours, academic and the third which is the easiest one of all. However, they all have homework.

 

I have realized that we are not going to do the perfect classical education, but I also realize that for most dc that's okay. Each of my dc will have a high school experience customized to them. Yes, they'll use many of the same materials, but how deep they go into each subject will vary greatly. eg history. My eldest spends a lot of time on history because she's doing 777 pages in History of the Ancient World in five months. She will read only 3 great books (a change from my initial plan, but I've learned it's better to plan big, because she does more that way than if I plan realistically for her), but she'll study two of them more indepth with Teaching Company lectures (Illiad & Odyssey). My middle one will do a lot more with history and go lighter on the science unless she does a sudden about face, etc. In fact, my middle one will do that book in grade 8 and spend all year on it so that she can do more with history in high school and still meet US history, gov't & economics requirements.

 

And yes it takes lots of time :)

[Jane in NC]

 

But we will not be in school constantly with no life outside of school. I believe in balance, myself.

 

 

 

Another consideration: some people apparently have teens who can stay focused for six hours straight. I suspect that some students are simply more efficient than my Dear One.

 

When my son was a freshman, we would sometimes start school late in the morning because I would let him sleep in (during growth spurts or after late night hockey games). He had a lot of energy that had to be burned at ages 13/14/15. There was no way the kid was doing school for six hours straight! So he would require a bike ride or a power skate in order to return to focused studies.

 

With these kind of regular interruptions, there is no way we could school from 8 to 3.

 

So those of you who can't imagine doing school work at night or on weekends should consider that some of us cannot imagine our children being efficient workers! :lol:

[Faithr]

Hi Faith! Nice name!

 

I don't think I made my point about Carnegie Unit hours! If the student completes the curriculum even before the unit hours are completed then they earn their credit. What helps with the carnegie unit hours is that it keeps one from going overboard. The OP was talking about how there can be no life outside of high school because each subject takes so long to do. My point was that by using CUH you don't need to spend that excessive amount of time on each subject according to nationally recognized standards.

 

I know people who do count Carnegie Unit hours. If you enroll in Clonlara or NARHS they have you count Carnegie Unit Hours and you have to submit a journal recording such, in order to get a transcript from them.

[choirfarm]

Two good points. I have one who focuses VERY well. I have another who can concentrate at the most for one hour and that is it. He must have activity. School looks different for those two. Also, that concentrated one will be finished with Geometry by the middle of April, Logic next week, Analytical Grammar next week etc. Then he might just concentrate on science. I don't know. Plus, like this week is spring break for ps, so the boys are going on a mission trip to Dallas tomorrow for the weekend, so this week has been catchup. for history we only did discussion and unit test. They took a test on mOnday for science and that was it. So they have finished with school by 12 every day this week and are currently outside playing.

 

Christine

[mcconnellboys]

It was hectic, but we didn't do every single subject every day. We alternated history and science, for instance. We didn't spend more (generally) than about an hour a day on math.

[FaithManor]

Hi Faithr,

 

Thanks for the clarification. Sometimes when you live in a different area, it can be hard to understand what is being explained. Plus requirements can be sooo different state-state.

 

Have a great day!

Faith

[Mad Jenny Flint]

I have been very full of angst over time spent, whether we are doing enough, etc. The truth is, my hs age son is learning, he is on track to finish his curricula within this school year, I am covering all the content areas that are necessary and he has time to pursue his passions and have a social life.

 

He works hard in school and puts a lot of time into it, but it is not excessive. The time spent per subject wavers right around an hour per day. Some days it's more, some days it's less. He is a quick study and though we cover a lot of material, he rarely has to work on weekends and evening work leaves him feeling really burnt out, so I try to manage the schedule to give him about an hour of free time before dinner.

 

When I find that we are missing something content-wise that I feel really needs to be included, I have decided that the missing thing needs to fit into our schedule, rather than expanding it very much. So, I move other things around, set some things aside for later, or try to cover it within the context of another class. This is important to me, because I value the relationship and his positive home experience more than I value a heavy workload and an inflated transcript.

 

I am beginning to see that relaxing about this is the way to go. However, I am not yet out of the hyperventilation habit. I'll get there. I'm so glad I have you, my fellow boardies, to call upon when the hyperventilation kicks in.

[Lori D.]

We are "slackers". :tongue_smilie: We spend about 5.5 hours a day on school, starting about 9:00-9:15 (so teens can get that sleep) and finish about 3:30pm. We work solidly, with only the hour lunch break. One or two Fridays a month are shorter (1-2 hours) so that DSs can participate in big homeschool group Student Council or other activities. PE I count separately, outside of school hours. We also take 1, maybe 2 other afternoons off each month for field trips, hear a speaker, see a student drama matinee, participate in an outside science lab, or other special education event.

 

However, we can do this because neither DS here is interested in a high academics field. We're not doing AP or honors coursework. No one is interested in music or art classes at this time. Both boys are thinking of just doing community college after high school to get required classes out of the way cheaply while they think about what kind of career field they would like to get into.

 

In the last 2 years, I am moving more and more toward protecting our time; I refuse to be sucked into the "work more more more" or "schedule every single minute" mentality of our American work world, which leaves no time for families; for dreaming; energy for enjoyable hobbies; time to serve/minister; ability to be spontaneous. :rant: (LOL!) This is just what I know *OUR* family is supposed to be doing, so I in no way expect anyone else to do this, or condemn others who have more rigorous schooling. I applaud those who have children who DO know what they want to do. We are also extremely blessed that DH has a stable job in these terrible economic times, so that may be "insulating" us from harsh realities of the job market, and maybe we'll regret not having "pushed" more. But, honestly, I don't think I really could push either DS more; neither is wired to be able to be scheduled 24/7.

 

 

Looking back to my public high school days (I graduated just at the end of the days when it was still a good education), I was only in classes about 5.5 hours; very rarely had any homework; easily held down a part time job in my senior year; participated on the school paper as an editor; graduated #8 out of 365; and still had plenty of fun social time. Why does school take so much more time now?? :confused: I know we live in an age of expontentially increasing volume of information, but it's insane to think we can cram ALL of it into our kids in high school (*I* am still learning every day!). My initially goals for homeschooling when we started 10 years ago:

1. raise children who are responsible and will have a close personal relationship with the Lord

2. teach them to learn to read (and hopefully foster a love of learning!) so they can self-teach all through their lives

3. teach them good critical thinking skills, so they can make good choices

 

I think we're pretty much there! Now in high school, I guess I would only add one more goal, which we're in the midst of:

4. mentor/encourage them, and help them explore/discover interests and gifts

 

 

And to achieve that last goal, DH and I have to be careful to NOT overload the school day so we have that time to discuss, encourage; and give them time to think, dream, explore... Anyways, BEST of luck to all of you fellow homeschoolers in the midst or about to start high school, as you chart out the path and schedule that is best for YOUR families! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Lori D.
added info

[Lori D.]

Kim (TitianMom):

And in case it helps, here's what the general time frame of school looks like here. BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

 

Math = 45-50 min; 4-5 days/week

English

* Literature = 40-50 min; 4 days/week

* Writing = 45-60 min; 3 days/week

* Grammar = 15 min; 3 days/week (after 9th gr., no longer needed; will skim/review in 12th gr.)

* Spelling/Vocabulary = 10 min; 4 days/week

Science = 1.5 hour; 2 days/week (we spread 3 years of lab science over the 4 years of high school)

Social Studies = 2 hours; 2 days/week

PE = 2 hours/week -- outside of school hours (can be weekends, over the summer, etc.)

Logic, Government, other = 1 hour/week (spread over more than 1 school year)

Elective = 2 hours; 1 day/week

 

We will be doing foreign language through 2 semesters of community college; 1 semester of CC = 1 YEAR of high school.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Lori D.

[LunaLee]

We are "slackers". :tongue_smilie: We spend about 5.5 hours a day on school, starting about 9:00-9:15 (so teens can get that sleep) and finish about 3:30pm. We work solidly, with only the hour lunch break. One or two Fridays a month are shorter (1-2 hours) so that DSs can participate in big homeschool group Student Council or other activities. PE I count separately, outside of school hours. We also take 1, maybe 2 other afternoons off each month for field trips, hear a speaker, see a student drama matinee, participate in an outside science lab, or other special education event.

 

However, we can do this because neither DS here is interested in a high academics field. We're not doing AP or honors coursework. No one is interested in music or art classes at this time. Both boys are thinking of just doing community college after high school to get required classes out of the way cheaply while they think about what kind of career field they would like to get into.

 

In the last 2 years, I am moving more and more toward protecting our time; I refuse to be sucked into the "work more more more" or "schedule every single minute" mentality of our American work world, which leaves no time for families; for dreaming; energy for enjoyable hobbies; time to serve/minister; ability to be spontaneous. :rant: (LOL!) This is just what I know *OUR* family is supposed to be doing, so I in no way expect anyone else to do this, or condemn others who have more rigorous schooling. I applaud those who have children who DO know what they want to do. We are also extremely blessed that DH has a stable job in these terrible economic times, so that may be "insulating" us from harsh realities of the job market, and maybe we'll regret not having "pushed" more. But, honestly, I don't think I really could push either DS more; neither is wired to be able to be scheduled 24/7.

 

 

Looking back to my public high school days (I graduated just at the end of the days when it was still a good education), I was only in classes about 5.5 hours; very rarely had any homework; easily held down a part time job in my senior year; participated on the school paper as an editor; graduated #8 out of 365; and still had plenty of fun social time. Why does school take so much more time now?? :confused: I know we live in an age of expontentially increasing volume of information, but it's insane to think we can cram ALL of it into our kids in high school (*I* am still learning every day!). My initially goals for homeschooling when we started 10 years ago:

1. raise children who are responsible and will have a close personal relationship with the Lord

2. teach them to learn to read (and hopefully foster a love of learning!) so they can self-teach all through their lives

3. teach them good critical thinking skills, so they can make good choices

 

I think we're pretty much there! Now in high school, I guess I would only add one more goal, which we're in the midst of:

4. mentor/encourage them, and help them explore/discover interests and gifts

 

 

And to achieve that last goal, DH and I have to be careful to NOT overload the school day so we have that time to discuss, encourage; and give them time to think, dream, explore... Anyways, BEST of luck to all of you fellow homeschoolers in the midst or about to start high school, as you chart out the path and schedule that is best for YOUR families! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Not to highjack, but...

Lori, can you move to NorCAl so we can go have coffee?:001_smile:

[Lori D.]

Not to highjack, but...

Lori, can you move to NorCAl so we can go have coffee?:001_smile:

 

Fun! And, hey, since I'm a slacker, I have lots of time to go for coffee! :tongue_smilie:

[LunaLee]

Oooh...us too. Not only that we do Starbucks school 3 days a week, so you see there is always plenty of time for coffee.

[Ritsumei]

I've given up on getting mine up early. My kids seem to need 11-12 hours sleep a night. They get a lot more done during the day if they get the sleep they need, so I've given up fighting it. It's counterproductive. I've adjusted by getting all my work done before noon.

 

They really have tried to get to sleep earlier. They can go to bed earlier -- but they just don't go to sleep. I think they got my husband's night owl gene coupled with my needing lots of sleep gene.

 

 

I saw an article on a study a while back - quite a while, so I no longer have the link - that had found that teens internal clocks change, and there is a certain legitimacy to them struggling with the whole "early to bed; early to rise" thing. It said some interesting things about sleep deprivation too: a teen, on 4 hours of sleep for a couple of days (can't remember anymore how many; between 2-7, I think) starts to perform on the same level as someone who simply hasn't slept for 24 hours. It was very interesting. I wish I'd kept the link, so I could share it here.

[DianeJM]

I can relate with your concern over how to get all this done in seemingly so little time. I have felt it myself, and as a result my older kids have gone to school at least some of the time in high school (there have been many other outside factors in that decision too) . And, yes, we had struggles with getting kids out of bed and getting those subjects done. Yikes. Kind of goes with the territory for that age, and some are worse than others. Part of my struggle with that was that I'm fairly relaxed about our timing, and I wanted them to get enough sleep, but I struggled for balance with that, b/c they could have slept until afternoon sometimes! But, get your helmet -- soldier on, go the distance; you will come out the other side, and so will dd. Oh, they can be so...maddening sometimes!!!

 

A dear friend told me that last summer, in preparation for this school year, she read the book "Senior High: A Home-Designed Form+U+La" by Barbara Shelton, and it revolutionized her thinking about high school. She only has her youngest of 5 kids left who is a sophomore this year. She said that book helped her crystalize some goals and the way she thinks about high school courses. I guess it's a lot more than academics, not that she's abandoning academics at all... Just wanted to share that thought with you and the others.

 

Great thoughts, all of you, great thread. Lots to think about.

[HeatherInWI]

This has been our first year of hsing at all high school level and above. Our days look like this:

 

English - 1 hour most days (World Literature)

 

Social Studies - 45 mins reading/highlighting M,T,W, 1 hr review R, 1/2 hr test on Friday (college history text & tests)

 

Science - 1 hour (30 mins reading/highlighting, 30 mins DVD lecture) M,T, W, 1 hour review Thursday, 1/2 hour test on Friday (Teaching Company Joy of Science w/ accompanying text and publishers tests)

 

Math - 1 hour per day (Life of Fred & Teaching Textbooks)

 

Spanish - 45mins-1hr M,T,W,R, 30 mins test F (Rosetta Stone 1 w/workbooks)

 

Musicianship - 1/2 hour per day

 

P.E. - 2 hours on Friday, usually 30 mins to 1 hr. other days. My dc don't count this as "real work" though.

 

Computer Skills - 30 minutes a day -- variety of resources

 

Most days the dc start on their own with the reading as soon as they get up, then do other subjects starting after breakfast. To avoid burn-out, we school year-round, so that we can take off a day, or a week, whenever we need it.